"Was the Civil War fought over slavery?": Here's the video to show idiots who think the answer is "No"
Col. Ty Seidule, head of the department of history at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point lowers the boom
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/11/was_the_civil_war_fought_over_slavery_heres_the_video_to_show_idiots_who_think_the_answer_is_no/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow (http://www.salon.com/2015/08/11/was_the_civil_war_fought_over_slavery_heres_the_video_to_show_idiots_who_think_the_answer_is_no/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)
The man Seidule is entitled to his opinion. However, there's nothing new there. He's defending the Lincoln myth as promoted by the Republican party ever since the War For Southern Independence to end slavery as justification for their military action against the South, the Confederate States of America. Slavery was part of the deal for the nations (states) to create the uSA and slavery was legal under the u. S. Constitution. Like it or not, that's the way it was. And Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation on January 1, 1863, did not free the slaves in the north. Of course, like many other facts, Seidule never mentioned it - he couldn't.
Today, most Democrats have bought into the Republican myth and most Democrats are like the Republicans. Try showing me some good ole Jeffersonian Democrats in leadership in this country. The foundation of Republicanism is socialism. Obama and the Republicans joined together to call for removal of Confederate flags and monuments. (Republicans do not oppose Obama, they're like him). Many of those Confederate monuments have been in place for many years - since reconciliation of north and South. Republicans are not conservative, they've been against the Constitution since their inception and they're not getting any better - and never will. Neither are the Democrats getting any better as they have vigorously bought into the constant Republican reconstruction of the uSA and now their New World Order.
I doubt that any of the Confederate veterans buried in Elk County owned slaves. But so what if any of them did? The Confederates were the last American military to fight for the Constitution.
"I tried all in my power to avert this war. I saw it coming, for twelve years I worked night and day to prevent it, but I could not. The North was mad and blind; it would not let us govern ourselves, and so the war came, and now it must go on unless you acknowledge our right to self government. We are not fighting for slavery. We are fighting for Independence."
-President Jefferson Davis, CSA
"When the South raised its sword against the Union's Flag, it was in defense of the Union's Constitution."
-Confederate General John B. Gordon
Is it any wonder that the Republicans and reconstructed Democrats think so much alike nowadays? Don't expect them to defend the Constitution. They have other plans.
Thanks Mom.That was very interesting.
Slavery was evil. If The south truly wanted to assert their rights, they should have picked a different issue. They didn't, they wanted slavery.
America had slavery in the beginning - and before that. That's the way it was.
If you think slavery is so evil, then why do you support the liberal tyrannical Federal government programs that take from one by force to give to another. In other words, you prefer make us give to the government programs - even to to the local economic development like some on here favor.
So Anmar, when you begin supporting liberty in America, I'll know that you truly believe that slavery is evil. Think liberty. Don't steal other peoples' stuff by and thru government.
It's evil.
Quote from: redcliffsw on August 15, 2015, 05:37:56 AM
America had slavery in the beginning - and before that. That's the way it was.
If you think slavery is so evil, then why do you support the liberal tyrannical Federal government programs that take from one by force to give to another. In other words, you prefer make us give to the government programs - even to to the local economic development like some on here favor.
So Anmar, when you begin supporting liberty in America, I'll know that you truly believe that slavery is evil. Think liberty. Don't steal other peoples' stuff by and thru government.
It's evil.
Taxes are not slavery. The only thing standing between our society and anarchy or foreign invasion is the government. The government needs money in order to carry out its function, thats why the constitution gave congress the power to tax and spend.
If you don't want to participate in our society, stop taking the benefits.
Of course, you're talking about accepting the benefits/entitlements of taking from others by and thru government. I don't believe that is what out founding fathers intended.
Seems to me that if we have abolished slavery, then we ought to act like it. We don't have the liberty to take from others by and thru government.
You must be saying that in our "democracy" that we can vote to take from others?
You want us to respect Arabs. How about the neocons, liberals and socialists respecting American liberty? They'll never do it. That's asking too much nowadays.
Quote from: redcliffsw on August 17, 2015, 06:53:49 AM
Of course, you're talking about accepting the benefits/entitlements of taking from others by and thru government. I don't believe that is what out founding fathers intended.
Then how do you explain Congress' power to tax and spend? or the commerce clause? How about the congressional power to print money? In order to support your claim, you need to point to some authority, and also refute the above portions of the constitution. You can't do either.
You're sounding like a Republican. There's nothing in the Constitution about taxing the people of the states. )And the Federal Reserve is another dandy deal.) The Constitution is to protect us from the Fed's. Obama and the Republicans are not pro-Constitution. They're stealing our liberty.
The Republicans have moved the uSA away from the intents of the founding fathers. That's the history of their ways and the reconstructed Democrats have fully accepted the Republican doctrine even to the point of moving socialism forward much more quickly than the Republicans.
Slavery? Now we're all owned by the Federal government - thanks to the Republicans. And the modern Democrats don't care anything about American liberty. These overseers and tyrants talk about promoting "Democracy" throughout the world (new world order), rather than to stand for American liberty at home.
Quote from: redcliffsw on August 18, 2015, 05:26:54 AM
You're sounding like a Republican. There's nothing in the Constitution about taxing the people of the states. )And the Federal Reserve is another dandy deal.) The Constitution is to protect us from the Fed's. Obama and the Republicans are not pro-Constitution. They're stealing our liberty.
Umm, have you read the constitution? Article I section 8
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"
There you go again. The government and its schools should be proud of your acceptance of their indoctrination. Besides that, you're a pretty good at thinking like a Republican or a modern reconstructed Democrat. (Can't tell which one you are).
If the Constitution provided for the Fed's to tax the citizens of the States, then why was the 16th Amendment "passed"?
Anmar, have you ever considered supporting States' rights and individual liberty, instead of the phony modern "equal rights/civil rights" stuff that most like to talk about? Marxism, that is.
Quote from: redcliffsw on August 19, 2015, 05:11:54 AM
There you go again. The government and its schools should be proud of your acceptance of their indoctrination. Besides that, you're a pretty good at thinking like a Republican or a modern reconstructed Democrat. (Can't tell which one you are).
If the Constitution provided for the Fed's to tax the citizens of the States, then why was the 16th Amendment "passed"?
Anmar, have you ever considered supporting States' rights and individual liberty, instead of the phony modern "equal rights/civil rights" stuff that most like to talk about? Marxism, that is.
Thats not an answer to my question. Dodging the issue won't help anyone.
I've read it. That's why I'm opposed to your thinking even though most Americans have been converted to your views in ther past 150 years. I don't see it like Republicans do. And Democrats certainly are not in opposition to the Republican view of the Constitution. Democrats and Republicans are in cahoots together.
O-O-OHH It's a conspiracy! My word man, how can you stand to be on here?
Quote from: redcliffsw on August 20, 2015, 05:52:26 AM
I've read it. That's why I'm opposed to your thinking even though most Americans have been converted to your views in ther past 150 years. I don't see it like Republicans do. And Democrats certainly are not in opposition to the Republican view of the Constitution. Democrats and Republicans are in cahoots together.
Ok you read it. You have yet to give a response. Let me clearly ask the question again. You view taxation as slavery, and unconstitutional. The constitution expressly grants congress to lay taxes. How do you reconcile that contradiction?
Obviously, it's a contradiction to you as you're supportive of a strong central government like Lincoln wanted which creates more and more limits on individual liberty and property rights. The American Revolution was against Brithish authority - tyranny and its taxes. Our founding fathers did not give us the Constitution to expand its meaning in favor of the tyrants, yet that's how it is today and expanding everyday.
If you're a citizen, the Federal government owns you, whether you call it slavery or not.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
― Samuel Adams
You are quoting Sam Adams? Just how old are you anyway? Do you understand to whom he was referring and why? The circumstances were really not a bit like today.
Quote from: redcliffsw on August 21, 2015, 06:36:10 AM
Obviously, it's a contradiction to you as you're supportive of a strong central government like Lincoln wanted which creates more and more limits on individual liberty and property rights. The American Revolution was against Brithish authority - tyranny and its taxes. Our founding fathers did not give us the Constitution to expand its meaning in favor of the tyrants, yet that's how it is today and expanding everyday.
If you're a citizen, the Federal government owns you, whether you call it slavery or not.
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
― Samuel Adams
Again, I'll repeat it because you don't seem to get it. Those same founders gave congress the power to tax. THE FOUNDERS BELIEVED IN TAXES. That whole tyranny thing you're talking about, taxes was only part of the equation. They were upset over TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. Is that clear enough for you?
What's clear enough for me is the fact that the Founders never believed in taxes the way it's being accomplished since the War For Southern Independence.
Big government greed has no respect for individual liberty or property rights. Socialism has no respect for individual liberty or property rights.
With the 16th Amendment, anything goes - in favor of more government, not liberty.
Perhaps you should move to a real socialist country for awhile so you can see the comparison.You just don't appreciate how good you have it.
Yes, we pay taxes, but in many similar modern countries the rates are much higher. Food is much cheaper here. Medical care is good here, but expert care is getting to be cheaper,(you pay $) in other countries, especially Mexico.
Can things be better? Of Course! But it's still better here on a day to day,year to year basis than anywhere else...Or I'd be there! That's why thousands of people every year still want to come here.
I'm already here.
Do you think that you are not a socialist? Do you think that this is not a socialist country?
That's your always angry, unhappy, dissatisfied opinion. In this country you are free to say it and post it with out disappearing in the middle of the night. Gripe on! RAH!
I've got some old ''friends" from SDS years ago who would love to really indoctrinate you.
(They would have made your rantings look like child's play.) They are still around. Yer an amateur Red.
It sounds like you've been a socialist for many years. I'm sure that you'd really like for the SDS to indoctrinate me to your way of thinking. The Republicans can do the same thing even though they take longer as they spread it out over many more years, but I'm not a candidate for the SDS and republican thinking.
You don't know who SDS was do you? Or you wouldn't say that! HA!
You're probably a card-carrying SDS member - at least you sure sound like one of 'em.
It no longer exists.They all grew up, graduated and now work inside the system rather than fighting it from the outside.You have no clue.
I can believe that. There's more than plenty socialists around these days, who needs SDS.
You're a pretty good clue to all that. You're expanding the socialist system from within - you're all inclusive except to true American conservatives.