There is a great article on Windpower in todays Tulsa World Windpower is clean and helps reduice our dependence on Foreign Energy Sources. Thanks to Liz and Ken, Elk County will benefit in both jobs, Royalties and Taxes Receipts.
athttp://www.tulsaworld.com/business/energy/wind-power-industry-spent-million-in-state-over-years-report/article_3914a432-7ef6-531a-b7d9-f7d09c93a239.html
Too bad none of that great energy those wind towers are making actually stays in the state of Kansas. Now that might be of great benefit not only to Elk County but to our neighboring counties as well. Just good business. As for the boost in employment, I fail to see that. But I do not know exactly how many people they employ and if they are from Elk County. I know of one for sure but not of any others. I can however see that the PILOT money is being spent wisely fixing our roads and helping lower our taxes.
RE: Post from Elk County's New Website in response to frawin
"Re: New Official Elk County Web Site
« Reply #4 on: Today at 11:14:54 am »
Some of it probably is staying in Kansas or surrounding states. As I recall it was for a power company in Tennessee. I am positive it is not being routed to Tennessee but instead being traded . Power is traded all of the time. I trade crude oil and Natural Gas all the time."
No, actually if you do the research it is in fact all going east.
From the Tradewind Energy website (emphasis added):
Utility Buyers:
The power produced by Caney River will be sold to the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), the nation's largest public power company. The power will be delivered to TVA's customers in the Southeast U.S.
http://www.tradewindenergy.com/project.aspx?id=238
Also taken from another site:
The Caney River Wind Project was developed by TradeWind Energy and is owned by Enel Green Power North America. The wind farm includes 111 Vestas V90 turbines that have a total nominal generating capacity of 200 megawatts (MW). The turbine towers stand 80 m (~260 feet) tall, and the blades are 44 m (~144 feet) long. Electricity produced at the Caney River Wind Project feeds into a regional transmission line and is sold to the Tennessee Valley Authority for its customers in the southeastern U.S.
http://www.geospectra.net/kite/caney/caney.htm
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I understand that the power is for customers in the Southeast, but I doubt that it is transported from Elk County to the SE. I feel sure they are trading it for equivalent power in Tennessee. Power is traded all the time to save overloading lines.
Well there is that matter of new, more powerful transmission lines through Kansas in order to move the power. I still say, it would be beneficial of the wind energy made here, stays here. I don't see my electric bill going down, I see it rising.
You are correct ,Frank. The power is simply put into the grid. It would be quite difficult to single out one path for it to follow.
As for new lines in Kansas, most are to replace old and unreliable ones, others are to provide a path to route power in the event of a line failure or damage. I don't know about you, but my electric bill is the smallest bill I get.
In addition, Liz and Ken did not bring the wind farm here, they merely negotiated the PILOT contract. And since both had a vested interest in seeing it happen, it wasn't them thinking of Elk county as much as their own pocket.
Just for clarification....
It is put into the grid. My point is that it is sold to then to the east. Does Westar or Caney Valley buy it from Tradewinds? That I don't know. If they did, then bravo, because then I and others in Kansas would benefit from it. I can only look at what I find from their companies to tell me what they do with it.
The new power lines from Barton County across Kansas, Missouri and Illinois is being built not only to replace lines but to bring that power outside of Kansas because the existing lines aren't capable to carrying that power. Again, power made here, leaves here.
Trade winds picked the locations, Liz and Ken had nothing to do with picking where the Windfarm is located.I happen to think they are both sharp young people and did a great job. Liz's and Kens family are old line ranching families and their Ancestors had the wisdom to invest in land. I am happy for them. I have had firsthand experience working for a successful oil operator in West Texas that invested in large tracts of land and one of his ranches was picked for a large Windfarm. It has been in operation for ten years. I recently traveled back to Midland on business and on I-20 from East of Abilene all the way to Big Spring you can see Wind turbines on both sides of the highway. I came back from Midland on I 40 and there are Windfarms along I 40. A lot of oil operators have invested in Windfarms.
Even though wind farms are only 25 to 35% efficient they still mAke a lot of money called profits for their owners.
Our wind farm is owned by an Italian company and that company is 1/3 owned by Italy.
Thus the wind farm acts as a giant money funnel siphoning money right out of the US.
Which is in no way healthy for the US economy. The economic impact of our wind farm is Pisa Poor for our country as a whole. If you give it just a little thought it is an economic negative for the US. And could be considered unpatriotic in my opinion.
So a small amount of there profit (maybe 1%) stays in Elk County that leaves 99% for Italy.
I`d links to know how that is good for the US as a whole?
What are there 4 whole jobs for the wind farm?
How many are Elk County residents?
As far as I can tell Liz and Liebau as county commissioners failed Elk County ,
but did quite well for themselves. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are.
I base that opinion on the fact that the same company built the same size
wind farm in Oklahoma and pays them $3Million a year.
All this is documented in the thread titled "Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners Meeting 4/25"
in the politics section.
I`m quite certain the transfer of electricity is much the same as petroleum products. If one company puts 50,000 barrels of product in the line in Huston they Don`t wait for their exact product to travel 250 miles to take possession. The simply take the equivalent amount of the same product.
Electrons are electrons as soon as some are pushed they are taken at the other end, just not the same electron. The electrons are not individually labeled.
NEWS
I would like to thank Frank for always being positive in his wishes for Elk County. Also to the ones that can read please go look at the county map and you will see that my husband and I have no wind turbines on our property. I am very happy for land owners that do have turbines on their land.
Realism is another thing, isn't it?
Here is some reality about renewable --- green energy"
And the administration refuses to answer for the lack of job creation and growth resulting from almost $16 billion spent on ''stimulus'' grants------almost a quarter of them to European and Asian renewable-energy companies.
From the:
House Energy and Commerce Committee, ''American Taxpayer Investment, Foreign Corporation Benefit,'' 17 Jan. 2013
Just a few comments...
Quote from: nykkylsdymes on March 27, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
Too bad none of that great energy those wind towers are making actually stays in the state of Kansas.
First, the energy does stay in Kansas. When you transmit energy across the grid, you lose energy. Its much more efficient to use energy close to the generation source. Probably this wind energy is going to Wichita or Tulsa and is getting traded or sold.
Second, Who cares? If Apple came and opened an ipod factory in Howard, would you complain that nobody in elk county got a discount on ipods? You don't bring businesses into your community to get a break on products, you do it for job opportunities, taxes, etc. If people from Elk County can't get jobs from a company in their own county, its because they aren't qualified. Not the Wind Farm's fault. They don't care what county their employees live in.
Quote from: ROSS on March 28, 2014, 03:31:51 PM
Even though wind farms are only 25 to 35% efficient they still mAke a lot of money called profits for their owners.
Our wind farm is owned by an Italian company and that company is 1/3 owned by Italy.
Thus the wind farm acts as a giant money funnel siphoning money right out of the US.
Which is in no way healthy for the US economy. The economic impact of our wind farm is Pisa Poor for our country as a whole. If you give it just a little thought it is an economic negative for the US. And could be considered unpatriotic in my opinion.
So a small amount of there profit (maybe 1%) stays in Elk County that leaves 99% for Italy.
I`d links to know how that is good for the US as a whole?
If the Italian company owns 1/3 of the company, they get 1/3 of the profits, not 99%. The other 2/3 of the profits goes to whomever owns the rest of the company. Furthermore, where is your outrage about all the other companies that take profits overseas? Every major american corporation has some percentage of foreign ownership. Thats just how our economy works.
Finally...
Was this wind farm built on private land? Aren't many of you against taxation and government handouts etc? If its built on private land, what right does the local government or the people of Elk County have to the profits generated from the windfarm?
Quote from: Anmar on May 08, 2014, 09:05:03 PM
Just a few comments...
And just a few answers in hopes of clarifying?
Quote from: nykkylsdymes on March 27, 2014, 10:04:19 AM
Too bad none of that great energy those wind towers are making actually stays in the state of Kansas. Now that might be of great benefit not only to Elk County but to our neighboring counties as well. Just good business. As for the boost in employment, I fail to see that. But I do not know exactly how many people they employ and if they are from Elk County. I know of one for sure but not of any others. I can however see that the PILOT money is being spent wisely fixing our roads and helping lower our taxes.
Quote from: Anmar on May 08, 2014, 09:05:03 PM
First, the energy does stay in Kansas. When you transmit energy across the grid, you lose energy. Its much more efficient to use energy close to the generation source. Probably this wind energy is going to Wichita or Tulsa and is getting traded or sold.
You are right Anmar the generated energy is used here in Kansas, But electron for electron and watt for watt is traded through the Tennessee Valley Authority for sale there! Hence the energy is used there. Nothing from the energy generated is beneficial to Kansas. So, nykkylsdymes remains 100% correct!
Quote from: Anmar on May 08, 2014, 09:05:03 PM
Second, Who cares? If Apple came and opened an ipod factory in Howard, would you complain that nobody in elk county got a discount on ipods? You don't bring businesses into your community to get a break on products, you do it for job opportunities, taxes, etc. If people from Elk County can't get jobs from a company in their own county, its because they aren't qualified. Not the Wind Farm's fault. They don't care what county their employees live in.
I have no idea where they got all of the three or four or maybe even 5 employees from. But we were informed, I believe by
Elk Konnected that the wind farm would bring jobs to Elk County. That is not necessarily good economic development for Elk County, now is it?
The wind farm, I do believe said they would be training the people to operate and maintain the wind farm. So I guess you are implying that nobody in Elk County was trainable. I don't know! I sure hope not.
Quote from: Anmar on May 08, 2014, 09:05:03 PM
If the Italian company owns 1/3 of the company, they get 1/3 of the profits, not 99%. The other 2/3 of the profits goes to whomever owns the rest of the company. Furthermore, where is your outrage about all the other companies that take profits overseas? Every major American corporation has some percentage of foreign ownership. That's just how our economy works.
Quote from: ROSS on March 28, 2014, 03:31:51 PM
Even though wind farms are only 25 to 35% efficient they still mAke a lot of money called profits for their owners.
Our wind farm is owned by an Italian company and that company is 1/3 owned by Italy.
Thus the wind farm acts as a giant money funnel siphoning money right out of the US.
Which is in no way healthy for the US economy. The economic impact of our wind farm is Pisa Poor for our country as a whole. If you give it just a little thought it is an economic negative for the US. And could be considered unpatriotic in my opinion.
So a small amount of there profit (maybe 1%) stays in Elk County that leaves 99% for Italy.
I`d links to know how that is good for the US as a whole?
No, Anmar I said, "Our wind farm is owned by an Italian company and that company is 1/3 owned by Italy." To clarify let me put it this way, Enel an Italian Company owns 2/3 of the company and the country of italy owns 1/3. So all profits go to Italy. !00% of the profits are funneled out of the USA.
Quote from: Anmar on May 08, 2014, 09:05:03 PM
Finally...
Was this wind farm built on private land? Aren't many of you against taxation and government handouts etc? If its built on private land, what right does the local government or the people of Elk County have to the profits generated from the windfarm?
As individuals following the laws as State and Federal taxpayers and as land owners paying county property taxes to support our country, state and county functions, following the letter of the law, I am sure everyone believes Companies and Corporations are required to do the same thing. This company is probably getting off with lower taxes per dollar by paying in lieu of taxes.
I am personally, against excessive taxing and taxing for un-needed expenses. (waste)
During the negotiations with the wind farm Mr. Ritz, the only
non-Elk Konnected County Commissioner at the time, wanted to negotiate free electricity for all Elk County residents. That I believe, would have been far more beneficial to the Elk County economy by allowing each and every citizen to have more money to spend with the merchants of Elk County, improving the economy. But, I personally believe the
Konnected Kounty Kommissioners interests were more in line, with their property and negotiation of funds for the use of their land, and lacked the necessary thought, about the needs of Elk County Citizens and Merchants. Which is also know as Economic Development!
You see, also at the same time period, our Economic Development Employee was also
Konnected as in
Elk Konnected. So we might ask what happened to any real Economic Development?
The same wind farm company, with an identical size wind farm in Oklahoma is paying
3 million dollars to that community.
I feel compelled, to ask, where has it been beneficial to all of the citizens of Elk County to be
Konnected (whatever that means)?
I hope this helps, Anmar.
Why does a private corporation operating on private land have to be beneficial to the community?
Quote from: Anmar on May 09, 2014, 10:26:19 AM
Why does a private corporation operating on private land have to be beneficial to the community?
Why do I, who lives on private property, have to be beneficial to the community?
We are not the social idiots that the editor of the newspaper was referring to!
I think perhaps he was referring to some of the so called elite!
He was not very specific. But we do know, he was referring to someone in Elk County!
But, I have no problem with that, because, I don't personally have any friends that fall in either category.
I do have a problem with the attitude. Yes, the attitude is bothersome.
My friends are all good, down to earth people, and I find that true of just about everyone I have met in Elk County.
However, for an editor to make such a statement is very un-becoming, in my opinion.
I think he woud be better served by keeping ugly remarks locked up.
But now that the cat is out of the bag, it should remain out, until a complete explanation and apology are tendered on the front page of his newspaper.
My guess is he won't offer either.
Just my opinion.
Ross,
With all due respect, you didn't answer the question. Here's a scenario. I want to open a business. Anmar's Kansas hay emporium. I grow special Kansas prairie grass and ship it to California where people can't get enough of the stuff. I buy 40 acres in Elk County and set up shop. What obligation do I have to benefit the community? Where did this standard come from?
I am very hesitant to post anything on this Forum anymore, but I must respond to something that Ross continues to post in an attempt to disparage the Payment In Lieu of Taxes (PILOT) that a previous board of county commissioners (none of whom are now on the board) negotiated with the developer of the Caney River Wind Project.
Quote from: ROSS on May 09, 2014, 07:13:41 AM
The same wind farm company, with an identical size wind farm in Oklahoma is paying 3 million dollars to that community.
TradeWind Energy was under no legal obligation to pay one penny in taxes to any entity with taxing authority over the land involved in the wind farm constructed in Elk County. The current owner of the windfarm, Enel Green Power North America, has no legal obligation to pay one penny in taxes to any entity in Elk County either. This is because wind farm development is exempted from ad valorem taxes in the state of Kansas.
At the Chisholm View Wind Project in north-central Oklahoma, also developed by Trade Wind Energy and owned by Enel, the project is subject to ad valorem taxation, as the state of Oklahoma has not exempted wind power development from property taxes. I do not know the valuation method applied to the project, or the mill levies that have been assessed by the myriad of taxing authorities across the two-county area, but multiple newspaper accounts have placed the total amount of property taxes to be generated by the project in the $3,000,000 range.
So, it is a clear apples to oranges comparison.
When you compare apples to apples - the PILOT negotiated by commissioners Jontra, Hendricks, and McDonald versus the PILOT terms that apply to all of the other wind farm developments across Kansas - Elk County is receiving the highest amount per MW. And the taxpayers and citizens of Elk County are receiving the benefits of this superior PILOT through the mill-levy reduction and spending flexibility the current board of commissioners enjoy.
Now some may say (I'm sure Ross would) that the project in Oklahoma is still benefiting the local taxing authorities more than the Caney River project is. That is true, but there is one other thing to take into account. The property taxes being paid by the Chisholm View project are underwritten by all of the taxpayers of the state of Oklahoma
Let me repeat that.
The property taxes being paid by the Chisholm View project are underwritten by all of the taxpayers of the state of Oklahoma.How? Through a state level Zero-Emission Facilities Production Tax Credit (PTC), not to be confused with the federal level production tax credit which some (but not all) wind farms in the United States receive.
The amount of the state of Oklahoma PTC will cover most if not all of the $3,000,000 figure that is so often printed as the amount of ad valorem tax generated by the Chisholm View project.
So, just how much might this state level PTC (which can be carried forward, is freely transferable, and 85% of which is refundable at the tax-payers discretion) be worth to Enel and/or Trade Wind for the Chisholm View project?
Let's do the math. The project has an installed face-plate capacity of 235 MW. The PTC is earned at the rate of $0.0050/kWh, that's half a penny per kWh.
Half a penny?! That's not very much, right? Depends on how many half-pennies you generate in a years time! 235 MW capacity is 235,000 kW/hr. 235,000 times 24 hours times 365 days equals 2,058,600,000 kWh per year.
But wait! The blades don't turn 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Right! Need to factor in a parameter called capacity factor, which is the actual output over a period of time as a proportion of a wind turbine or facility's maximum capacity. I have not seen a published capacity factor for the Chisholm View project, but based on the project's location, would expect it to be at or above the national average which varies from year to year within a range of 25-27 percent. For the sake of argument and easy math, let's use the low end and cut our production figure in fourths.
So, that's 514,650,000 kwh times the PTC of $.005 per kWh for a
total PTC of $2,573,250. If the capacity factor of the project proves to be say 30%, then the PTC will be $3,087,900.
Either way, the PTC will cover most if not all of the local ad valorem taxes due from the project.
Quote from: Anmar on May 09, 2014, 10:57:14 AM
Ross,
With all due respect, you didn't answer the question. Here's a scenario. I want to open a business. Anmar's Kansas hay emporium. I grow special Kansas prairie grass and ship it to California where people can't get enough of the stuff. I buy 40 acres in Elk County and set up shop. What obligation do I have to benefit the community? Where did this standard come from?
Well Anmar, I apologize for my message not coming across.
Each and every one of us is considered an asset to our community.
That is why the concern for the decline in population.
We each contribute at least financially through property taxes and through
our purchasing power, my purchasing power is retirement money brought in from out of state, even the person on food stamps purchasing food at the local market is contributing to the local economy. These actions benefit the Community.
If you were to buy a farm, you would pay property taxes. Property taxes benefits the community by providing for the fire department, the road department and the ambulance and the Sheriffs Department and other services. To have these services people are required to be hired and paid furthering circulation of money.
If your business requires you to hire a couple of employees, that benefits the community by providing employment for some one that might otherwise be unemployed and further circulation of money.
Perhaps if your business grew to an extremely large size a trucking firm might set up business in the community providing more jobs, attracting more people to the community. These new people would perhaps buy the vacant homes in the area. Creating even more opportunities for growth.
It is not that you have to be beneficial to the community, it just happens. And the more your business grows the more the community benefits. Therefore in my opinion the community should cheer you on. I try to do as much shopping locally as I can. If I buy in other counties the sales tax does not benefit the county I live in. And the local merchant loses business and may be forced to close down.
When I first moved here, I was told prices at the co-op in Severy were cheaper than at the Moline Feed Store. Sure, they are a little cheaper, but after figuring in the cost of gas and wear and tear on my vehicles and time involved, I figured I broke about even by shopping locally. By shopping in Moline I am supporting a local business and my community sales tax is paid here.
I sure hope this answers your question Anmar.
Quote from: ROSS on May 09, 2014, 09:03:30 PM
It is not that you have to be beneficial to the community, it just happens.
Ok. So from what I understand, you're saying that the company that owns and operates the wind farm has NO obligation to provide ANY benefit to the community. If that's the case, why are you complaining that what they are doing isn't enough?
Quote from: Anmar on May 10, 2014, 04:00:46 PM
Ok. So from what I understand, you're saying that the company that owns and operates the wind farm has NO obligation to provide ANY benefit to the community. If that's the case, why are you complaining that what they are doing isn't enough?
I never said they are not doing enough! I never complained about the company's contribution to the county. The company is also donating money for 30 kids to go to Summer Camp for a week or two in Lawrence, Kansas which is really nice.
What I have said, is the same company with the same size wind farm in Oklahoma gives a community
$3 Million Dollars. And I have said, that our
Konnected Kounty Kommissioners did a poor job of negotiating for Elk County, and I believe that is because, they were apparently more interested in their personal interest in the land, where the wind farm was built and their profits, rather than doing the necessary home work (study) to negotiate properly on behalf of Elk County.
As I have also stated, the only
non-Konnected County Commissioner Mr. Ritz could not get the
Konnected Kounty Kommissioners to even consider negotiating for free electricity for all citizens of Elk County. That would have been much cheaper for the company, but most likely worth much more than
1 Million Dollars and every citizen would have benefited directly.
Oh for your information Anmar, I understand the land owners apparently negotiated
3 Million Dollars for themselves.
And Anmar, you can bet, that
Elk Konnected has a person lined up to run against Mr. Ritz in November. I have heard the lady's name, but I am not at liberty to disclose it. One more
Konnected member on the Elk County Commissioners board, once again will give them control of the county.
Is that what Elk County needs? In my opinion, not no, but Hell no.
My only complaint's about the company are:
1. Stimulus Money Used to Build it.
2. Major Tax Breaks
3. All the Profits go Directly to a Foreign Country (In this case Italy).
Number 3, can best described as a big ole funnel, for nearly free money, to a foreign entity.
Oh and Anmar it has just recently been corrected by the County Appraiser that the land, that each wind mill is on, is now taxed as commercial property, instead of being taxed as agricultural. There is a difference. I don't believe cattle can graze on the concrete pads.
Fair is fair right?
Quote from: Anmar on May 10, 2014, 04:00:46 PM
Ok. So from what I understand, you're saying that the company that owns and operates the wind farm has NO obligation to provide ANY benefit to the community. If that's the case, why are you complaining that what they are doing isn't enough?
Sorry I didn't answer your question about the company's obligation.
I don't know for sure, if they had an obligation in the beginning or not.
But today they sure do, because they entered into a poorly negotiated contract with the county.
Of course Anmar everything I post is simply my opinion and nothing more.
You are welcome to ignore anything, I post and I will not be offended.
Ross,
I generally don't ignore posts, and I have no reason to ignore yours. I wonder if you've ignored the rather lengthy and well argued post from Crosstimber on page 2 of this thread.
What I'm trying to get at is this. When it comes to local politics, you and many other Elk County residents are actually pretty liberal. Look at your arguments. Business has a duty to the community, the people deserve a piece of the pie, businesses should be taxed, etc. Nationally, the republican platform is free market, the rights of persons to use their property as they please without government interference etc.
Locally you're a liberal. Nationally you're a conservative. All I'm trying to do is 1. help you realize that and 2. Ask you why there's a discrepancy.
Quote from: Anmar on May 14, 2014, 11:13:27 AM
Ross,
I generally don't ignore posts, and I have no reason to ignore yours. I wonder if you've ignored the rather lengthy and well argued post from Crosstimber on page 2 of this thread.
What I'm trying to get at is this. When it comes to local politics, you and many other Elk County residents are actually pretty liberal. Look at your arguments. Business has a duty to the community, the people deserve a piece of the pie, businesses should be taxed, etc. Nationally, the republican platform is free market, the rights of persons to use their property as they please without government interference etc.
Locally you're a liberal. Nationally you're a conservative. All I'm trying to do is 1. help you realize that and 2. Ask you why there's a discrepancy.
I had a lengthy response written and was posting it when my computer crashed and I lost it.
Right now I am posting to you on a Kindle because I can"t get my computer running.
I am in no way a liberal..
A simple response would be one community gets 3M and the other gets 1M.
There is no apples and oranges.
All the rest of that post is simply for confusing people, simple nothing more.
Sorry I can not do properly on this firm kindle.
Thank you Anmar.
Hey Ross, why don't you call up the Garfield and Grant County Oklahoma treasurers and ask them how much property tax revenue has made it's way into their office from the Chisholm View wind project.
Wait, I'll save you the dime. The answer is $0.00! And the answer will remain the same for five years.
Why would that be?
Because Oklahoma abates the ad valorem taxes on wind power development for five years.
So for five years the owners of the Chisholm View wind farm will be collecting their state level production tax credit from the state (to the tune of $2.5 - 3.0 million, give or take a hundred thou or so) without paying a dime to the local counties, township road districts, school districts, fire districts, conservation districts, etc.
Crosstimber a big thank you for getting the facts on the Chisholm View wind project. Ross never likes the facts unless they agree with his always negative view. I think if the West Elk taxpayers would get the facts from the school board they would find a lot if not most of what Ross has put out there is not true.
Quote from: frawin on May 14, 2014, 07:31:48 PM
Crosstimber a big thank you for getting the facts on the Chisholm View wind project. Ross never likes the facts unless they agree with his always negative view. I think if the West Elk taxpayers would get the facts from the school board they would find a lot if not most of what Ross has put out there is not true.
You right, I do have a negative attitude about all you self righteous liberals.
But facts, what facts. I haven't seen a single link to support what Crosstimber says. Not one single solitary fact.
Sorry Frawin you fail in calling me a liar. What I post is the gospel truth. But, you know what, I don't ask anyone to believe anything I post. They could go to the school board meetings and see and hear the foolishness for themselves, can't they. But can you?
You Don't see a single one of the school board members disputing a single thing I post do you. Especially the great and highly Konnected board member do you?
I feel pretty confident I have shamed those supposedly delete into cleaning up their act a little bit. HOW you may ask? By posting pictures of their picking table and the Elk Valley Schoolboy meeting room. And at the next meeting I expect to see arrangement quite similar to Elk Valley's arrangement. An dignified arrangement generally used by dignified school board's. An arrangement that is even used by the Kansas State School Board.
The next thing is to discontinue the picnic and stop looking like my cow chewing her cud. Then maybe some real conversations about REAL school business can take place.
And as I usually say it is simply my opinion and nothing more.Just like the newspaper editor writing his opinion entitled EDITORIAL.
The school board has been working on this liberal plan of construction for two years without even knowing what the class rooms looked like. And finally a couple of months ago the school principal invited them to take a tour.
When have you toured the building frawin ?
Just asking'.
Ross, you're not in line with the liberal agenda and several here that are not. You're on the right side so stay right in there.
Quote from: redcliffsw on May 15, 2014, 04:59:19 AM
Ross, you're not in line with the liberal agenda and several here that are not. You're on the right side so stay right in there.
Thank you !
Our wind farm nor any other wind farm is not doing any one any favors.
They are subsidized by the taxpayer in more ways than one.
The measly 1 million dollars paid in lieu of taxes is a great big gift to the tax farm.
And the 3 million Dollars paid to the land owners is thanks to each and every one of us that pay taxes, but do we get a thank you from them, do they pay it back to the Elk County Community, Hell no. They are laughing all the way to the bank. They are most likely laughing at our ignorance of the subject and our gullibility of the lies they tell us.
Critical Thinking needs applied here, questions asked until the truth is realized.
As I have said in the past our wind farm has caused my electric bill to increase drastically.
But check it out for your self, please carefully read the following:
On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 11:28 AM, Forrest Knox <Forrest.Knox@senate.ks.gov> wrote:
Listed following is an editorial coauthored by Rep. Dennis Hedke, Chairman of the House Energy & Environment Committee, and myself.
Straight Talk from Senator Knox
Wind Energy in Kansas – Who Pays?
Now that the 2014 Kansas legislative session is complete and the media is offering its commentary with respect to energy policy, we feel compelled to offer a couple clarifications.
First, let us be clear that we are in no way opposed to renewable energy resources, but rather are opposed to the market distortions that certain policies have produced. Mandates on Kansas's electric utilities were passed by the Kansas legislature in 2009 requiring that 15% of nameplate electric generation capacity be from renewable resources by 2015, and 20% by 2020. The federal government put into play production tax credits amounting to 2.2 cents/kilowatt hour, (on average, about 45% of the wholesale cost of electricity in Kansas.) This direct federal subsidy to the wind industry, amounting to over $12 billion nationwide last year and hundreds of millions of dollars in Kansas, together with state subsidies, is what has built the wind industry. However, on December 31, 2013 those federal tax credits 'expired' leaving ratepayers to cover future costs of meeting the mandate. There is a 10-year lifetime for the credit on all existing systems and on those "in construction." Present renewable developments will still have that significant advantage until December 31, 2023.
Kansas has given further subsidies to this industry as a result of the lifetime exemption from ad valorem property taxes, which last year amounted to a tax advantage, as measured against Payments in Lieu of Taxes (PILOT), of more than $117 million across the state. No other industry has ever been granted a lifetime exemption from these property taxes.
The claim is made that the Kansas Corporation Commission (KCC) only sees an approximate 2% rate impact due the RPS. There is a question, however, of whether the KCC is taking into account all costs. We are working with the KCC to fully examine all costs associated with the mandates. Multiple studies demonstrate that the true 'levelized cost' of wind power is substantially higher than what is estimated based on Energy Information Agency figures. One such study released in late 2012 ( American Tradition Institute, Taylor & Tanton) shows that the true cost of wind measured against coal on standby is approximately twice as expensive as dispatchable coal, and approximately 50% higher than natural gas on standby. You cannot deliver wind energy standalone; rather it must 'merge' into existing base load, whatever the source. That merging and 'demerging' when the wind dies suddenly, presents special grid balancing challenges to base load providers, which adds to the cost of electricity.
Kansas ratepayers across a blended spectrum of delivery by Westar have seen electricity prices escalate by 41% since 2008. We have certainly been hearing from the business community, the fixed-income community and others who have simply been astounded by these rate increases. The claim that RPS only accounts for a small portion of that increase simply does not stand against the facts. RPS, according to Westar numbers provided, actually nearly matches the rate impact related to EPA regulations, which have been substantial, many billions of dollars over that period mentioned. Additionally, moving the power from turbine to the electrical outlet is not cheap. Newly added transmission costs in the Westar case are very significant in that 41% price run-up.
We feel more strongly than ever that the RPS has no place in the economy of electricity delivery. If renewable power is so effective and cheap, then why should it have to be mandated?
Rep. Dennis Hedke, Chairman of the House Energy & Environment Committee
Senator Forrest Knox, Vice-Chair Senate Utilities Committee
Forrest Knox
Kansas Senate, District 14
17120 Udall Road, Altoona, KS 66710
Office: 785 296 7678
Home: 785 783 5564 Cellular: 620 636 0051
Email: forrest.knox@senate.ks.gov
senatorforrestknox@gmail.com