Dear Elk County Commissioners and concerned citizens,
I am writing as a concerned citizen and business owner. I am deeply troubled with your recent cutting of the Youth Development position. This will result in us losing our Economic Development Department which is my greatest concern. When you took away her full time status, she lost her insurance and benefits. She will probably no longer be able to stay in the Economic Development position which I believe is a detrimental loss to Elk County. In addition to losing the youth engagement in our community, we will also lose the first person an interested business would go to for networking.
When the Wind Farm came to town, they went to Jennifer. Unless people were directly involved in this process, I don't think many people realize what a huge asset she is to this county. She worked extremely closely with the job managers to compile a list of all their needs, which included lodging, office space, and food among many other needs. She scoured the county for any available house, apartment, trailer, and office space that was livable. She worked to coordinate food service for them onsite since it was a remote part of the county and the crew would not be able to leave the jobsite for meals. She let them know where they could find the many amenities that outsiders might not know we have, including local shopping. She kept a huge amount of money in the county that could have been spent elsewhere. Squeezing her out of her position is the "thanks" she gets? She is constantly going to other counties and promoting our beautiful community. We need her!
Every progressive community has an Economic Development Department. That person is the contact point for the whole community network. I hear a rumor you are talking of hiring a County Manager for $60,000 a year (which is a great deal more than you have eliminated with Jennifer). In this time, when we need less government and administration, what are you thinking? You were elected to be our "County Managers."
Elk County population is shrinking at an alarming rate. Our businesses that remain need local government to help keep people in the county or we will not be able to stay in business. Businesses need population to survive. By eliminating the Revitalization Program and Youth Development and Economic Development, I am greatly troubled by what our future holds for business owners in our community.
How many businesses have we lost on our main streets in the last 20 years? How many more can we afford to lose?!
Please don't use all of the wind farm money just getting us by for now. Some of it needs to be invested in our future. The businesses depend on it!
Sincerely,
Julie Perkins
Awesome, Julie, you probably have more invested in elk county, than almost any non-land owners. Hopefully the more levelheaded powers will listen to what you say. Julie, Howard, and the surrounding communities are so fortunate to have you, a Pharmasist and your Pharmacy and grocery store, the only ones in the area. Your store is so well stocked it is like a mini-Walmart.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 07:50:16 AM
...This will result in us losing our Economic Development Department which is my greatest concern....
Your statement is unsupported. While the 'body' may choose to leave, the functions of economic development are not necessarily at risk.... stop with the fear mongering, please.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 07:50:16 AM
Every progressive community...
When one reads history, they will realize that the Socialist Party in America changed their public persona to 'progressive' decades ago. Are we sure that 'politically progressive' is what we really want? Let's ask the really progressive communities... Chicago, New York, Los Angeles... or how about modern day Detroit. These are locations that increasingly adopted 'progressive' economic development. Based on outcomes and the real results of the unintended consequences, are we really sure progressivism is what we want?
Should we promote Elk County? No doubt. But at our current levels of taxation, which are the result of 'progressive' management, we don't have much to offer.
With all due respect, much of what you say sounds like sour grapes. We had a decade or more of 'progressive' leadership. What do we have to show for it? Declining population, declining school enrollment, outrageous property tax mill levies, degraded road infrastructure. Perhaps it's time to 'progress' in a different direction.
As evidence of the 'wonderful exposure' Elk County gets from our current program, look at our presence on the web for starters... http://www.elkcounty.org/economic-development.htm (http://www.elkcounty.org/economic-development.htm)
Impressive? Not really.
Youth engagement? As of this moment, our county website displays an amateurish poster for the Outhouse Feestival from LAST November.
Engaging? You decide.
Patriot, whose side are you on? Elk County's? Oh, yes, you are one of the fear mongers, aren't you, by continually telling us what our government is doing wrong. Now, when we have one of our successful business people telling us what is helping keeping her business successful, she is a fear monger. Maybe, just maybe, she knows more about what Elk County growth needs than a recent transplant from Sedgwick County knows.
Thank you, Julie, for putting into words, what I felt when I first read about the first actions our new commission took. I just don't have the ability to say what I feel. I hope the rest of our business people will back you up on this. We need someone promoting our county instead of continually tearing it down.
You are seriously comparing us to Chicago, New York and LA? I'm not talking that progressive but I'd like to see something more than just getting by until we can no longer live here. It is not sour grapes, I am not a socialist, and I am truly concerned for our futue and I am NOT a fear monger!
Quote from: Wilma on January 27, 2013, 08:18:21 AM
Patriot, whose side are you on? Elk County's? Oh, yes, you are one of the fear mongers, aren't you, by continually telling us what our government is doing wrong. Now, when we have one of our successful business people telling us what is helping keeping her business successful, she is a fear monger. Maybe, just maybe, she knows more about what Elk County growth needs than a recent transplant from Sedgwick County knows.
Here we go with that 'outsider' nonsense again. I thought we might have outgrown that silliness, Wilma. Guess I was wrong.
Perhaps if some 'outsider' perspectives were invited & welcomed, Elk County would be growing rather than shrinking.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 08:23:54 AM
You are seriously comparing us to Chicago, New York and LA? I'm not talking that progressive but I'd like to see something more than just getting by until we can no longer live here. It is not sour grapes, I am not a socialist, and I am truly concerned for our futue and I am NOT a fear monger!
My apologies if I've misinterpreted your intent. All I know is that numbers don't lie, and the numbers for Elk County have been declining for years. Maybe a new approach will produce better outcomes.
Do tell us what your big plans are. I see nothing but cutting taxes and services on your agenda.
Ms Brummel was contacted by me, offering trailer space and housing for wind farm workers, I never heard a thing back from her. Guess I didn't measure up to her little group. :P
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 08:32:59 AM
Do tell us what your big plans are. I see nothing but cutting taxes and services on your agenda.
First, it's disconcerting that you seem to think reducing the tax burden on our citizens is a bad thing. I suspect a majority of taxpayers might disagree. As might a significant number of folks who might otherwise consider relocating here.
Second, I've never advocated a reduction in government services that measurably enhance the fundamental qualities of life and are functions of government... efficiency and cost control in government operations, highly trained, professional & responsive personnel, better roads & infrastructure, better law enforcement, the best fire protection, excellent ambulance services and the best teachers & curriculum... and the projection of our positive attributes to the outside world through an effective & professional presentation.
Third, I do suggest that government should excel in providing those basic functions, and the private sector needs to work harder at providing the other things that attract positive attention... shopping, dining, entertainment and housing opportunities, etc. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think government makes communities.... people and communities make communities.
Quote from: Patriot on January 27, 2013, 09:05:20 AM
First, it's disconcerting that you seem to think reducing the tax burden on our citizens is a bad thing. I suspect a majority of taxpayers might disagree. As might a significant number of folks who might otherwise consider relocating here.
Second, I've never advocated a reduction in government services that measurably enhance the fundamental qualities of life and are functions of government... efficiency and cost control in government operations, highly trained, professional & responsive personnel, better roads & infrastructure, better law enforcement, the best fire protection, excellent ambulance services and the best teachers & curriculum... and the projection of our positive attributes to the outside world through an effective & professional presentation.
Third, I do suggest that government should excel in providing those basic functions, and the private sector needs to work harder at providing the other things that attract positive attention... shopping, dining, entertainment and housing opportunities, etc. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think government makes communities.... people and communities make communities.
I would say that you and Ross are doing a pretty good job of ruining Elk County and discouraging anyone from moving there. I speak from firsthand information on this. You have the Wichita Big City attitude.
Quote from: Oldtimer on January 27, 2013, 09:16:39 AM
I would say that you and Ross are doing a pretty good job of ruining Elk County and discouraging anyone from moving there. I speak from firsthand information on this. You have the Wichita Big City attitude.
I don't know why you would think that Ross and Patriot discourage anyone from moving here. It's completely unfounded. I'm pretty sure that most people don't get on the Elk County Forum and read everything on here before they decide to move here. I'm pretty sure it would be because they have family here, it's fairly cheap to live here, it's a close commute to get to work, etc. that brings people here. My main reason for living here? Small town life, no big city zoning laws and no big city CRIME! It's pretty off-putting to deal with big city taxes though so kudos to the Commission for planning to do something about that and I hope they use every bit of that windfarm money for improving roads and infrastructure and lowering taxes, something the previous Commissioners didn't do! After all, isn't that how the money was intended to be used and asked to be used when they had their little EK meeting in Moline?---Jennifer
Never did I say that reducing taxes was a bad thing but you can not recruit new highly trained professionals that are talking about and lower taxes. As a business owner, I am taxed every time I turn around! You can not lower taxes AND improve all of those things you speak of. That's not the way economics works.
Patriot, thank you for engagment and information! You and Ross are doing damn good job, keep it up!
As for eliminating the position of Youth development and Economic development, I say kudos to the commissioners for finally getting something right. It is high time our local government started doing things that benefit the entire county, not just howard and a hand full of konnected individuals.
Cutting taxes and services...you're damn right! The citizens of this county have been paying taxes that are way to high and have nothing to show for it.
If Mrs. Brummel was doing such a fine job, where are all the youth programs? Where are all the new businesses and "Economic development"? In short, where is the return on our investment? Did we spend it all to cover the expense of doing work for Elk Konnected with County resources and materials?
If local businesses want to "network" then they should do it themselves, not on the tax payer dime. It is not the business of local government to promote, advertise, or create businesses.
Oh, Oldtimer, how in the hell can two people ruin an entire county? Perhaps its the people that want government to dictate and handle every aspect of peoples lives, and those that have their heads stuck in the sand that are runining this county.
Jprxmkt, what are you're big plans, you're the one that started this thread, so do tell...just how would you have the commissioners improve this county?
Wilma, how in the hell do you expect outside businesses to move here if "outsiders" are not welcome?
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
Never did I say that reducing taxes was a bad thing but you can not recruit new highly trained professionals that are talking about and lower taxes. As a business owner, I am taxed every time I turn around! You can not lower taxes AND improve all of those things you speak of. That's not the way economics works.
Looks like you're supporting the Keynesian economics - the socialist model. Why government owes your
business anything - except liberty?
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
Never did I say that reducing taxes was a bad thing but you can not recruit new highly trained professionals that are talking about and lower taxes. As a business owner, I am taxed every time I turn around! You can not lower taxes AND improve all of those things you speak of. That's not the way economics works.
You're not the only business owner in the house, julie. I empathize. But, in government just as in business, you can increase efficiencies, eliminate waste & prioritize expenditures. In government, that CAN result in lower taxes.... that most surely is the way economics works. Unless you're a believer in Keynesian economics.
Keynesian economists seem to have taken the old saying that 'to make money you've got to spend money' and applied it to government. The problem is that, unlike business, government doesn't make money by earning money.. they print it or take it by force of law through taxation & fee assessment.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
Never did I say that reducing taxes was a bad thing but you can not recruit new highly trained professionals that are talking about and lower taxes. As a business owner, I am taxed every time I turn around! You can not lower taxes AND improve all of those things you speak of. That's not the way economics works.
Actually, you can. By cutting useless programs and staff that do not work, you can reinvest the money without having to further the burden already placed on taxpayers. For example, can you tell me the reasoning behind having a janitor at the court house that makes more money then the road crew workers? They work longer hours, do 10 times the work, have to deal with adverse weather conditions, etc? Can you telll me why it is that we have so many people working in the courthouse? Has no one heard of cross training? Or for that matter can you tell me why we insist on pouring more and more money into a building that is falling apart, when building a new one would be the more sensible and cost effective answer? Can you tell me why taxpayers are on the hook for so many l.e.o's when most of the country operates on a 1:1000 ratio? Espcially seeing as how they do very little to actually stop crime in the county?
Julie, KEEP ON KEEPING ON and ignore the negative crowd, I think there are a lot of people that agree with you. I know of someone that had purchased land in Elk County and had plans to build a Cabin on it, after following the NEGATIVE crowd on the Forum, they sold the land in Elk County recently and are making plans to buy elsewhere.
Quote from: Varmit on January 27, 2013, 09:57:38 AM
Or for that matter can you tell me why we insist on pouring more and more money into a building that is falling apart, when building a new one would be the more sensible and cost effective answer?
Amen to that! Most of the EK Mob should AGREE with that question, since it is them that do not want to pour anymore money into the West Elk school and would rather just build a new one! I'm not positive who the Don of the Mob is this week but the Family had once closed down Moline and Severy schools with the same argument. They want taxpayers on the hook for a new school, so why not a new courthouse? ---Robert
Varmit, If I had big plans, I would have ran for commisioner. I don't believe my name has ever been on the ballot. I believe that my opinions and concerns were very clear in my original post. I don't believe I need to repeat myself. It's not my style. I also don't believe that 1 person has all the answers, I believe it must be a whole community working TOGETHER to find solutions that work for everyone.
Red- Government owes me nothing! No one owes me anything. Nothing has ever been givien to me and I have worked for everything I have and all the debt I have incurred while doing it; all to do what I feel was an improvement in our county. It is my opinion that current decisions that have been made will negatively impact my business and our community 10-20 years from now.
Quote from: frawin on January 27, 2013, 10:01:43 AM
Julie, KEEP ON KEEPING ON and ignore the negative crowd, I think there are a lot of people that agree with you. I know of someone that had purchased land in Elk County and had plans to build a Cabin on it, after following the NEGATIVE crowd on the Forum, they sold the land in Elk County recently and are making plans to buy elsewhere.
LMBO...how is asking questions being negative? How can we improve with we do not ask questions to assertain what works and what doesn't? You want "negative" then lets keep on doing what we have been doing with absolutely nothing to show for it!
As for the "cabin" you mentioned, so what? If a person is going to move away because they don't like it when people express their opinions, I for one, don't want them here anyway. Of course, it could be that they saw how this county was being run and said," Nope, screw that!"
So on the upside, and in the intrest of being more positive, just how are the commissioners supposed to improve the county?
Quote from: frawin on January 27, 2013, 10:01:43 AM
Julie, KEEP ON KEEPING ON and ignore the negative crowd, I think there are a lot of people that agree with you. I know of someone that had purchased land in Elk County and had plans to build a Cabin on it, after following the NEGATIVE crowd on the Forum, they sold the land in Elk County recently and are making plans to buy elsewhere.
When my family and I moved up here 12 years ago, we knew NOTHING of this forum and would've never read a forum to base life altering decisions on, such as moving. We came to Longton one day, saw this house, asked about it, discussed it and decided to move here because of small town values and the fact that driving to work from Longton was really no different than driving to work from Sedan. I have family who live here but family is not the reason I moved here. There is a new couple here in town that have no family here either, knew NOTHING of the Elk County Forum and still moved here anyway. Why? SMALL TOWN LIFE.
There is NO such thing as the NEGATIVE CROWD on this Forum. There are people with different opinions, different points of view, AS THERE ARE IN ALL TOWNS, CITIES AND INTERNET FORUMS. Without that diversity, what would we have? Same shit, different day. Why does there have to be the FEW people on here labeling people because they don't like what they say? If you don't like to be labeled, I doubt other people do. Ask yourself this question, who are the people actually being NEGATIVE?---Jennifer
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 10:11:58 AM
... Nothing has ever been givien to me and I have worked for everything I have and all the debt I have incurred while doing it; all to do what I feel was an improvement in our county. It is my opinion that current decisions that have been made will negatively impact my business and our community 10-20 years from now.
Well, to be honest, there was likely an income/profit motive in there somewhere.
But of greater import is that I think we agree on one thing. If something doesn't change, the direction Elk County is headed is toward extinction. I just don't think we agree on how to effect a turnaround. With the national economy hurting and the local economy under the same pressures, and the fact we've been shrinking (even during the booming 90s), what we've been doing simply hasn't worked countywide... and continuing to do the same things won't likely produce different results.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 08:32:59 AM
Do tell us what your big plans are. I see nothing but cutting taxes and services on your agenda.
I didn't see Patriots name on the ballet either, so why ask a question you are not prepared to answer? You accuse others of having an agenda, whats yours? You want to work together, heres your chance...what are your ideas on county improvement? I have already stated mine...lowering taxes, cut spending where it doesn't show a return, get county gov't out of town business, focus programs and policies on the entire county not individual towns.
Your original post dealt with one person that, in my opinion, didn't really do anything. Compiling names of businesses...look in the phone book. Put together a list of needs, i.e. office space, lodging, food,...again check the phone book, pretty simple. I am sure the windfarm folks already knew what they would need before they came here, it not like they made that decision on a whim.
The Revitalization program and the youth program have been in effect for 5 years, if even that. That is not enough time to see if they would help or not. It's not just a short term problem that will be fixed easily by compressing a few jobs at the courthouse or making them empty their own trashcan (no offense to the janitor at the courthouse) that will not bring people to Elk County. To the contrary, it will only force more people to leave because now they have no job. Each decision affects other factors.
So are we for building a new courthouse and not a new school?
The phone book? What year is this? I am pretty sure that "places to rent" is not in the elk county phone book. Are you saying that personal contact is not important and vital to our existence. I'm pretty sure they choose Elk County for our wind not because they knew what our services were. Our local services, I'm absolutely positive, had nothing to do with building here.
Actually, I'm not in favor of building a new courthouse OR in West Elk getting a new school. West Elk created their own problems when they closed Moline and Severy without having a plan put into place to have enough space for the kids. I believe they could've put some more money into Moline and Severy to make them viable without planning to shove building a new school down peoples' throats. They voted on it, the people shot it down and they went over the voters' heads anyway and shut them down. They are going to do whatever they want to do and to hell with the voters. Using the words of a previous county commissioner, "Screw the public. We'll give them what WE want to!"---Robert
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 10:41:33 AM
The Revitalization program and the youth program have been in effect for 5 years, if even that. That is not enough time to see if they would help or not. It's not just a short term problem that will be fixed easily by compressing a few jobs at the courthouse or making them empty their own trashcan (no offense to the janitor at the courthouse) that will not bring people to Elk County. To the contrary, it will only force more people to leave because now they have no job. Each decision affects other factors.
So are we for building a new courthouse and not a new school?
How could the Revitalization program been in effect for 5 years if it wasn't passed until Nov. of last year???
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 10:57:37 AM
The phone book? What year is this? I am pretty sure that "places to rent" is not in the elk county phone book. Are you saying that personal contact is not important and vital to our existence. I'm pretty sure they choose Elk County for our wind not because they knew what our services were. Our local services, I'm absolutely positive, had nothing to do with building here.
UM, if a business is going to relocate or build here don't you think they are going to research the availible resources? In short, they already knew what we had before they built the windfarm. They didn't need a list compiled for them as they would already have done their homework.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 10:41:33 AM
So are we for building a new courthouse and not a new school?
I would much rather see a new courthouse than a new school. I say let the parents that send their kids to west elk worry about the school. The people of this county already expressed their opinion on it.
That sums it up, doesn't it. If I don't have a kid that will benefit or if I won't personally benefit from it, then why should I support it? Is that what our communty is about? Is that all there is? Is that how the majority feels!!!!!!?????? Really???
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 11:56:17 AM
That sums it up, doesn't it. If I don't have a kid that will benefit or if I won't personally benefit from it, then why should I support it? Is that what our communty is about? Is that all there is? Is that how the majority feels!!!!!!?????? Really???
Do we really need to regurgitate the 'all for the kids' mantra when it comes to buildings? There are issues relative to education that transcend buildings, aren't there? Just as there are issues relative county government that transcend a courthouse building or one part time staff position.
Quote from: jprxmkt on January 27, 2013, 11:56:17 AM
That sums it up, doesn't it. If I don't have a kid that will benefit or if I won't personally benefit from it, then why should I support it? Is that what our communty is about? Is that all there is? Is that how the majority feels!!!!!!?????? Really???
Unless I am completely off base didn't the majority vote on a bond issue not that long ago? And didn't the majority turn it down? Now I could be completely wrong on this one, and if so then pass the salt and I will get to eating that crow.
Now, since you bring up the idea of community and this thread was started in regards to the youth and economic development position you favor, would you please point the programs that were put into place for the kids of our community? And please don't bring up the soccer camps because that was an Elk Konnected project.
The bond issue that you keep bringing up was for a new grade school building, not on whether or not to close the Severy and Moline grade schools. Closing the grade schools some time in the future was decided when it was decided to build a new high school building that didn't include room for the grade schools. That was many, many years ago. To us, the people that did the voting at that time, it was a foregone conclusion as to what would happen in the future. It was the lack of thinking of the future instead of the present pocket book that made that mistake.
Now, it is still the thinking of the pocket book instead of what could happen in the future. When we bought property here in Elk County in 1992, we knew that the tax rates were high, but that didn't stop us. We understood that there wasn't a lot of tax resources available here. The taxes weren't any lower when I moved here in 2005, but that didn't stop me. I will bet that Patriot and Ross knew what the tax rates were when they bought and moved, too. I don't know about Varmit, but if his children are not attending West Elk, his school tax money goes to a different district. And since he belongs to a family that has lived in Elk County for many years and owns land in Elk County, I will bet he knew about the tax rates, also.
Besides, what does all that have to do with our commissioners stepping backward instead of forward?
nothing personel but would you be supporting her so much if she had tried to get a dollar general here?
Supporting who?
jennifer,the youth person.that i guess is also the economic person
(http://soundoffbirmingham.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/wpid-Death-and-Taxes.jpg)
I do not see how eliminating the position of youth development and economic director, or whatever the title is, is moving backwards?
For the sake of clarification, does anyone know why the position was eliminated?
Quote from: Varmit on January 28, 2013, 08:53:03 PM
I do not see how eliminating the position of youth development and economic director, or whatever the title is, is moving backwards?
For the sake of clarification, does anyone know why the position was eliminated?
Two primary reasons were given at the time the motion was made.
1. The Commission had just decided to redistribute the county recreation monies to the various towns so they, rather than the county, could use the funds in their communities as they determined. Further, one of the functions of the position was to coordinate use of these monies.
2. Eliminating the part time position represented a savings to taxpayers of approximately $24,000 per year in wage, tax & benefit expenses.
Okay, I've been put down once again on this forum and I'm okay with that.
You have every right to express your opinion and I respect that.
As a taxpayer and a voter, I also have the same right. And I hope you can respect that!
What I have been reading amounts to nothing more in my personal opinion, is if the people of Elk County don't agree with the few Konnected folks they are wrong. Isn't that what you are saying?
Konnected Kounty Kommissioners admitted at a County Commissioners meeting when they had total control that Elk Konnected, LLC recommended that Elk County have an Employee to do Youth Development and the two Kontrolling votes of Konnected Kounty Kommissioners voted to accept Elk Konnected, LLC's recommendation. Wasn't that convenient?
I would suggest that if the privately owned company wishes to keep their Steering Committee Member as a Youth Development Employee fine, hire her. Most companies/ LLC's do hire employees don't they?
However, as a Youth Development program for Elk County, I never saw anything that represented Youth Development. I know that organizations like the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, 4-H, FFA and other such have programs, that are based on a schedule with the ability to learn and grow do provide Youth Development. That truly represents youth development to me. Since when is sitting down and watching a movie any form of development? Since when is sporadic anything youth development?
The County Youth Development Program never reached anywhere near ten percent of the children in Elk County, so what made the program worth thousands of dollars in pay and benefits? Nothing in my opinion! According to the US Census Bureau 25.7% of
Elk County is under 18, you can do the math. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/20/20049.html
I believe the real problem is attitude of a few, just my opinion.
I personally have welcomed several new comers to our area.
I don't go around calling them outsiders as I have been called, thank you!
I personally, believe our County Commissioners deserve a pat on the back for a job well done. But, I am sure you few konnected people do not, because our County Commissioners are not konnected kounty kommissioners katering to a few, they are County Commissioners catering to the whole of Elk County for the betterment of Elk County.
Oh, by the way you can not blame the County Commissioners for the Konnected failures with their Wellness Center or their Daycare now can you?
Elk Konnected, LLC wanted a Youth Development person, here is your chance, why not hire her?
Now, I am done with this thread.
So go ahead and tear me up, you are entitled to your opinion.
Thank you for reading my opinion.
The beginning of the story starts at:
Topic: Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25 (Read 115996 times)
http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.0.html
A very long read but quite interesting.