Elk County Forum

I realize what follows will offend and likely enrage a few citizens.  So be it.  Unvarnished truth is often inconvenient & sometimes painful.

As a group, the Democrat party of today is NOT the Democrat party of JFK and surely not the party of its founder, Thomas Jefferson.  Reading the article at the end of this post below will clearly spell that out.  But I have some down home observations & some questions.

Observing that the primary leaning of the modern Democrat party is one of godless trends that support many things totally antithetical to even the most basic Judeo-Christian values, what does that say about everyday local voters who voluntarily identify themselves as Democrats?  If I were to hang out with a gang of thieves or a in house of prostitution, what would that say about me?  If I spent my time touting my support for the KKK, what would that say?  Wouldn't a reasonable person be right to conclude that I'm no different than the groups I support and identify with?  Sure they would... and rightly so.  We lend our names, our time and our resources to the things we love, support, and believe in, don't we?

The Democrat party of today supports:

 Not only unrestricted abortion on demand, it supports the payment for abortion by moneys taken from taxpayers, by force of law.
 The termination of the life of a partially born infant by stabbing a sharp instrument into the base of its brain as an abortion right.
 Ongoing payments to welfare recipients with little or no expectation, requirement or incentive to seek productive work.
 Government sanctioned 'marriage' (and all the benefits thereof) between men who engage in sex with men & women who engage in sex with women.
 Forced payment of union membership dues by workers as a condition of employment.
 Government run educational system to the utter exclusion of private or homeschool options and with virtually no consideration of parental wishes.
 The requirement that all adults purchase health insurance simply as a condition of citizenship.
 The unequal taxation of all citizens.
 A less substantial military resulting in a reduced capacity for national defense.
 A greater involvement of government  in the affairs of all businesses & farms through onerous regulations enforceable by fines and/or imprisonment.
 A significantly reduced enforcement of immigration policies at our borders.
 A vast reduction of states rights to govern their own internal affairs & a replacement of those rights with increased central government influence & control.
 The endorsement of & participation in global government options including gun ownership rights & United Nations Agenda 21 initiatives.


So if one self identifies as a member of the Democrat party, aren't they saying they support the general plan and direction of that group... including all the things listed above?  Are these things representative of the protection of the individual liberties that are codified in our Constitution?  Is simple ignorance of these facts an excuse to identify with the values of the Democrat party or elect others who share those values?  How can one attend a church, claiming to be a Christian and support the Democrat party/platform at the same time.  In what do Democrats really believe.  I just can't reconcile these three positions:  Liberty loving American, Professing Christian and Declared Democrat.

Remember, we already have one such Democrat in power as an Elk County Commissioner.  And another who clearly (by a number of measures) supports these values.  If we look carefully, we can see what that leadership has (or has not) produced for Elk County.  We also have an opportunity to make changes this November.  When you vote, read the foregoing & think about what you are really voting for.  When you register to vote, read the foregoing and ask yourself, "Are these the things I really believe in?"

Register & Vote the way you really believe.  It's OK to make a change!

A Godless Party Expels the Creator
Thursday - September 6, 2012
By Patrick J. Buchanan

The authors of the Democratic platform have inadvertently revealed to the world the sea change that has taken place in that party we once knew.

For the first time — and in the longest Democratic platform in history, 26,000 words — there was not a single mention of God, the Creator, whom Thomas Jefferson himself, father of the party, proclaimed to be the author of our right to life and liberty...

...No platform celebrating homosexual marriage and backing a woman's right to abort her child at any time in her pregnancy can be credibly adopted by a party that also purports to revere the God of our Founding Fathers.

In truth, this Democratic Party was a godless institution long before its platform writers declared it to be so.

The howlers had it right. God doesn't belong in that platform.

Full article:  http://buchanan.org/blog/a-godless-party-expels-the-creator-5235 (http://buchanan.org/blog/a-godless-party-expels-the-creator-5235)

i've said quite often you can't be liberal and a christian at the same time.   The two are diametrically opposed.

Quote from: srkruzich on September 07, 2012, 01:35:58 PM
i've said quite often you can't be liberal and a christian at the same time.   The two are diametrically opposed.

That is the most irresponsible statement I can think of. I have been a republican all my life, but I know many democrats that are Christians in every sense of the word. How often do you attend church.

The democratic party died with JFK... and LBJ finally figured that out.  It's a fair assessment.  Democrats have gone from being Liberals who simply sought to give the poor a fair shake, to flat out 'hate the rich' .... Marxists bent on destroying private wealth in the name of Socialist equality.

Here's a clip of JFK describing... believe it or not... Reaganomics. 



It is no small irony that Kennedy was assassinated by a Marxist.  Remember, it was JFK's Executive Order 11110 to "...strip the Federal Reserve of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest.  With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business."
http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy31.htm

Good post, Patriot[/font][/size][/b]

Quote from: ELK@KC on September 07, 2012, 02:20:57 PM
That is the most irresponsible statement I can think of. I have been a republican all my life, but I know many democrats that are Christians in every sense of the word. How often do you attend church.

Recent Bible readings indicate that where you put your butt for an hour each week isn't near as important as where you put your heart every day.

Uh, well, gee golly...I basically said that once and Steve told me I was wrong.  :angel:

LOL

I see these questions, like so many on another popular thread, go unanswered and/or addressed with personal pops and pokes.  I'm beginning to think that high fructose corn syrup has finally rotted the majority of brains in America.

So, how, exactly, can an American be a professing Christian and still so openly & affirmatively associate with a political party that advocates so many things that oppose the teachings of the Bible that they claim to follow?

How? Easy. One can be true to ones own self for most things and only participate in the things they agree with. Just like many Catholics are true to their faith, but use birth control and not feel guilty about it. In modern life today, for many, the exception can be the rule. Ask any teenager. ;D People can still be individuals and not have to be cookie cutters of the more forward, often aggressive types who see themselves in a very rigid inflexible way. Usually they see themselves as right and the only "right."  Many very self righteous  people only follow the parts of the Bible that they find useful to themselves. I'd never do it here, but I could easily come back with Bible contradictions and argue them until I'd be red in the face. But I don't see that as my role here.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 07, 2012, 04:00:39 PM
How? Easy. One can be true to ones own self for most things and only participate in the things they agree with. Just like many Catholics are true to their faith, but use birth control and not feel guilty about it. In modern life today, for many, the exception can be the rule. Ask any teenager. ;D People can still be individuals and not have to be cookie cutters of the more forward, often aggressive types who see themselves in a very rigid inflexible way. Usually they see themselves as right and the only "right."  Many very self righteous  people only follow the parts of the Bible that they find useful to themselves. I'd never do it here, but I could easily come back with Bible contradictions and argue them until I'd be red in the face. But I don't see that as my role here.

So when it comes to a professed faith in the Bible, it's really just a buffet... take the stuff you like and pass on the rest?  Well that sure sounds like a solid stand based on faith.  As for your 'contradictions,' I submit you perceive contradictions because of a serious lack of study and understanding on your part, not because there are actually contradictions. 

That said, my question about claiming to be a professing Christian and clear association with groups holding non-Christian agendas still stands.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 07, 2012, 04:00:39 PM
How? Easy. One can be true to ones own self for most things and only participate in the things they agree with. Just like many Catholics are true to their faith, but use birth control and not feel guilty about it. In modern life today, for many, the exception can be the rule. Ask any teenager. ;D People can still be individuals and not have to be cookie cutters of the more forward, often aggressive types who see themselves in a very rigid inflexible way. Usually they see themselves as right and the only "right."  Many very self righteous  people only follow the parts of the Bible that they find useful to themselves. I'd never do it here, but I could easily come back with Bible contradictions and argue them until I'd be red in the face. But I don't see that as my role here.

hence my original statement.  Its diametrically opposed if you have to select and choose which parts you want to follow.  There is no compromise on the belief side.  IN fact my statement was recently proved at the DNC.  Where over 50% voted to leave God out of this primary and this country.  DId you hear the boo's for God??  SHeesh. 

Quote from: ELK@KC on September 07, 2012, 02:20:57 PM
That is the most irresponsible statement I can think of. I have been a republican all my life, but I know many democrats that are Christians in every sense of the word. How often do you attend church.

DID i say anything about a democrat? 

Oh to be perfect and live in a perfect elk county world.

Quote from: greatguns on September 07, 2012, 05:39:19 PM
Oh to be perfect and live in a perfect elk county world.

LOL

Quote from: greatguns on September 07, 2012, 05:39:19 PM
Oh to be perfect and live in a perfect elk county world.

LOL  Or the existing imperfect world with a dash more common sense.

Actually Patriot, I was talking more about the political "pick and choose "buffet" if you would, not the faith part, though the contradictions in the Bible are well known and we've beat this to death before. I do know that some people disregard parts of the Bible as interesting but impossible.That doesn't mean they don't have great faith, they are just more realistic and more into the science of it all.
  Unless you can read ancient Greek or the ancient languages such as Aramaic, you only know what the translators wrote and they were under the control of whomever was in control at the time. Some books were forbidden, others were changed to suit the times.
  The old Hebrew linguists still argue about what some things really means if a letter or following word is changed or mistranslated. If someone deliberately changed a translation or meaning long ago, later readers would believe what they were expected to believe, not because it was what was originally intended. That was another way people could be controlled and not know it was happening. Sound familiar? It can be very complicated. If you want to take every word as true that's fine.
   I  think the story of Jonah is an interesting tale and had it's place...but is not meant to believed as truth. Besides a whale isn't a fish! Same as the earth being only six thousand years old. Nope, can't be. But this is very dangerous territory so I'll let it be. Now then there is the burning bush. Do you know what I know?

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 07, 2012, 09:09:42 PM

   I  think the story of Jonah is an interesting tale and had it's place...but is not meant to believed as truth. Besides a whale isn't a fish! Same as the earth being only six thousand years old. Nope, can't be. But this is very dangerous territory so I'll let it be. Now then there is the burning bush. Do you know what I know?

You are correct on both counts.   The burning bush was not a consuming fire, but a fire of the holy spirit.  Unless your christian you really cannot understand that fire.
As for the fish, its not fantasy that a man can be swallowed by a fish.  Two p;ossibilities.  Sperm whale which has a 20" wide esophagus that would accomodate the size of a man, and whales are like rumanents that have multichambered stomachs.  The only thing is that he would have to survive being crushed by the first compartment.  Being like ruminants they can regurgitate their contents.  :)  Secondly great white shark. Sharks metabolism is much much slower where they would not digest a man in the three days time.  And there are many times where great whites are found with skeletons of men in them.   I thought it could have been the leviathan but that is not possible since it is a reptile or dinosaur.   Since it says great fish we have to stay with that species.
It is also interesting that when he was swallowed he was in the mediteranean sea, the fish traveled down the nile then around saudi arabia and back up through the persian sea up the tigris river to deposit him on land.

Now there is a symbolic message or prophetic message in there in that Israel's mission and failure in being God's
missionary agent to the Gentiles. Jonah's flight to Tarshish represents Israel's failure
before the Exile, and the great fish symbolizes Babylon. The disgorging of Jonah stands
for Israel's second chance following her restoration to the land.

It is quite a facinating event and one that Christ himself compared himself to.  He said it was a real event so we much believe that it was.

You say lots of error in the bible?  I say no lots if misinterpretation by those who read it.  Yes i do know how to use the aramaic and the Greek definitions to find the real meaning in the translations.    Where people claim there is discrepancies is only because they do not use the correct definition of the word when multiple definitions exist for the word. 

      Though this does not involve what has been discussed here, it does involve voters.

   Is it true that the social security checks are now labled " Federal Entitlement Benefit", or is this just some falsehood circulating ?
A lot of people have their checks direct deposited so they wouldn't see this. If true, it's an outrage.


    I guess this should have been put in Warph's This and That.

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 08, 2012, 09:03:44 AM
     Though this does not involve what has been discussed here, it does involve voters.

   Is it true that the social security checks are now labled " Federal Entitlement Benefit", or is this just some falsehood circulating ?
A lot of people have their checks direct deposited so they wouldn't see this. If true, it's an outrage.

this is an attempt ad redefining what social security is.  the gooberment realizes that we have paid our social security and it is ours not a gooberment benefit. It is paid for by us out of our wages.   So they in turn know that if they try to take it away they will encounter a force that will bear arms and fight for it.   So they are redefining it so that they can at a future date sieze our social security and claim it was a gooberment benefit not a trust fund so we aren't entitled to receive what we pay in. 

Same shI* different day. Time to toss the assh**** out

The Fed's have already captured your money and spent it. 

How they gonna pay it back and all the other money they've borrowed?  They don't have to.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 07, 2012, 09:09:42 PM
Actually Patriot, I was talking more about the political "pick and choose "buffet" if you would, not the faith part, though the contradictions in the Bible are well known and we've beat this to death before. I do know that some people disregard parts of the Bible as interesting but impossible.That doesn't mean they don't have great faith, they are just more realistic and more into the science of it all.
  Unless you can read ancient Greek or the ancient languages such as Aramaic, you only know what the translators wrote and they were under the control of whomever was in control at the time. Some books were forbidden, others were changed to suit the times.
  The old Hebrew linguists still argue about what some things really means if a letter or following word is changed or mistranslated. If someone deliberately changed a translation or meaning long ago, later readers would believe what they were expected to believe, not because it was what was originally intended. That was another way people could be controlled and not know it was happening. Sound familiar? It can be very complicated. If you want to take every word as true that's fine.
   I  think the story of Jonah is an interesting tale and had it's place...but is not meant to believed as truth. Besides a whale isn't a fish! Same as the earth being only six thousand years old. Nope, can't be. But this is very dangerous territory so I'll let it be. Now then there is the burning bush. Do you know what I know?

So tell us which things in the Bible you believe to be true?   
 

My apologies.  Perhaps the concepts or questions were too difficult.  Or maybe real honest answers would require a level of  personal courage & public commitment that would be uncomfortable, I don't know.  I hope not.  Here, I'll leave out the foundation & try again...

Quote from: Patriot on September 07, 2012, 12:36:18 PM
...So if one self identifies as a member of the Democrat party, aren't they saying they support the general plan and direction of that group... including all the things listed above?  

How can one attend a church, claiming to be a Christian and support the Democrat party/platform at the same time?  In what do Democrats really believe?  

I just can't reconcile these three positions:  Liberty loving American, Professing Christian and Declared Democrat.

 Patriot ,not being a Democrat I can't answer your question and since you are so ridiculing with the way you asked it, wouldn't have anyway. So I'll take risk and address Red instead.
   Quite a lot of it actually.
  Much, IMHO, is metaphor and allegory which is very useful. Also science can explain a lot .Plagues of locusts,etc. really happened, but can be explained as a natural occurrence. Rivers turning to "blood"...red tide.They still happen.They meant as to blood, not real blood.
 Science and religion don't have to be exclusive and separate. When ones allows them to blend naturally it can be wonderful and fascinating.
 The burning bush story is more or less real .There really were and still are burning bushes. Rare, but it does happen. I saw a story about them several years ago. Some dry plants create volatiles that do burn in the presence of very dry conditions and a spark, as  from a stone sparking as it rolled down hill. It goes off with such a flash that it goes out before the plant is damaged.(Or maybe they were into funny weed which was used then. ;))  I find it interesting that it was a "bush", not a palm or some other plant. There are other explanations too, but it makes for a wonderful story even though there is more than one account of the burning bush encounter as most of us know it.
  Bread and fishes for 5,000? Must have been huge fish..or did they make fish soup and croutons ? Still an interesting story regardless.
   I'm not big into hard core organized religion because of it's history and the horrible things that were done, and still are, in it's name.
 But I do have my faith and I am a very spiritual being. Let me walk in the woods with slanting sun rays, a gentle breeze, a nearby brook and birds singing and I am in my church.

Quote from: redcliffsw on September 08, 2012, 11:11:42 AM
The Fed's have already captured your money and spent it. 

How they gonna pay it back and all the other money they've borrowed?  They don't have to.

if they don't they get to face the bullet end of the barrel of my gun along with another 60 million Social security recipients.  What else will we have to lose if they take it away?  Not a damn thing.  Might as well go out with a fight than to starve to death.
we paid for our social security and by God we'll extract it either in dollars or a pound of flesh. 

Yes Sir!  I'm hearing what you're saying.

Where are all the communists who had a hand in the government in the Soviet Union?

How much money did they pay back to the citizens? 

The communists accomplished so much for the citizens - public service and community service but
we don't hear about it anymore.

Wow, waffle much.    Red ...oh never mind I have to make some pickled eggs.    Aha! pickle...nickle..or is it pickel and nickel...or one of each? ;D ;D ;D ;D Tain't English fun?

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0GqYe60Bnvs/UExGf0D3SZI/AAAAAAAAgI4/pPst3QGhS24/s1600/9-7-12%2B4.jpg)

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 08, 2012, 02:40:13 PM
Patriot ,not being a Democrat I can't answer your question and since you are so ridiculing with the way you asked it, wouldn't have anyway. So I'll take risk and address Red instead.
   Quite a lot of it actually.
  Much, IMHO, is metaphor and allegory which is very useful. Also science can explain a lot .Plagues of locusts,etc. really happened, but can be explained as a natural occurrence. Rivers turning to "blood"...red tide.They still happen.They meant as to blood, not real blood.
 Science and religion don't have to be exclusive and separate. When ones allows them to blend naturally it can be wonderful and fascinating.
 The burning bush story is more or less real .There really were and still are burning bushes. Rare, but it does happen. I saw a story about them several years ago. Some dry plants create volatiles that do burn in the presence of very dry conditions and a spark, as  from a stone sparking as it rolled down hill. It goes off with such a flash that it goes out before the plant is damaged.(Or maybe they were into funny weed which was used then. ;))  I find it interesting that it was a "bush", not a palm or some other plant. There are other explanations too, but it makes for a wonderful story even though there is more than one account of the burning bush encounter as most of us know it.
  Bread and fishes for 5,000? Must have been huge fish..or did they make fish soup and croutons ? Still an interesting story regardless.
   I'm not big into hard core organized religion because of it's history and the horrible things that were done, and still are, in it's name.
 But I do have my faith and I am a very spiritual being. Let me walk in the woods with slanting sun rays, a gentle breeze, a nearby brook and birds singing and I am in my church.

Lenin and Marx would agree......

Quote from: redcliffsw on September 08, 2012, 03:07:23 PM
Yes Sir!  I'm hearing what you're saying.

Where are all the communists who had a hand in the government in the Soviet Union?

How much money did they pay back to the citizens? 

The communists accomplished so much for the citizens - public service and community service but
we don't hear about it anymore.

I dont' know if you knew anyone from russia when the soviet collapsed, but i have many friends that were there.  The difference is that they did not have social security as it was implemented here, they only were allowed to make so much for their product and then government took the profit. uhm When the soviet collapsed, there was the folks that took up arms against the government when their pension checks did not pay out.   It was quietly fought, meda was not allowed to report it. A lot of my friends participated in it til it got suppressed then they got out while they could. Came here to the US under political whatyamacallit.  Now they are citizens.  But the fact is that SS was setup not as a benefit, but a savings plan albeit a ponzi scheme that employers were coerced into forcing upon us.  Now the SS can be changed before it goes insolvent.  I don't care if they don't like it, but when i have shelled out tens of thousands of dollars into the fund, then i expect to get it back as that was the promise aka promissory note/or contract given to us.  Constitutionally it is not a legal program but they made a contractual debt to generations that have paid in. We fulfilled that obligation in our lifetime and by God they will either pay up or face the consequences.   When you have a populace that is too old to go back out and work, and you take away the funds that many if not most need to live, then you create a situation that will cause these same people to make a choice to die or fight. And i'll tell you if you anger the older generations, (stupid move) as they are the ones who arent' afraid to fight, that will create a civil war that will be fought and won by those who have nothing to lose.

They call ww2 generation the greatest, imagine todays elderly standing up to a totalitarian government that takes their life sustaining funds and medical care.   I'l bet on the old folks! 

Red your right on the constitutionality of this government but cutting out everything all at one time isn't going to save a thing.  I agree cut and chop down to bare bones. THEN take out social security as we know it, Make it private accounts for those under 50 or so, and then pay out what is owed. Thats a simple solution to the ponzi scheme and it stops the theft of the funds from the trust fund. IF this government had not stolen the money from SS there would be money in there now in surplus to take care of these obligations.

Once the older folks are paid out in 50 years then the SS is gone, no unfunded liabilities, and you eliminate that expense.  IT goes back towards a constitutional government.  ALong with that hammer all the other agencies to the bone.  That is number one reason why ron paul or anyone like him will never get in office. Even romney with his plan on ss and medicare by privatizing it is going to have a difficult time getting in.   This all did not happen overnight and it won't happen overnight to return us to the constitutional government our forefathers set up, unless civil war breaks out and those who fight against the government wins.

We unfortunately as a people have a moral not constitutional obligation to make sure that all that have been suckered by the gooberment, are not left to die. You just can't morally allow that. So what if you got your way and social security and medicare are tossed out tomorrow. What about everyone that can't go back to work?  Do you advocate allowing them to starve to death?  Some of us are unable in any way to go work a pt job much less a full-time and don't have family to care for them.

       I see no way that one could claim to be Christian and Democrat after what occurred at their convention, however, there was clearly not a two-thirds majority either way when the vote was taken. So, it's up to those against it passing to decide if they want to remain in the party.

Thank you Red... Some Christian you are. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* >:(

Quote from: Bullwinkle on September 09, 2012, 09:57:59 AM
       I see no way that one could claim to be Christian and Democrat after what occurred at their convention, however, there was clearly not a two-thirds majority either way when the vote was taken. So, it's up to those against it passing to decide if they want to remain in the party.

Yeah you noticed that too!  I would say at least 51% were shouting no to restoring God to the platform.  What a Godless bunch they are!

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 12:55:20 PM
Thank you Red... Some Christian you are. :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* >:(

Thank you.

 Marx and Lenin were suspicious of all religions, especially after Marx's father converted, because being Jewish was "in convenient'' It didn't fit into his thinking, so he would have had no interest in me at all. Sorry, you strike out again.
Red, you are a false Christian at best. A real Christian would never have as black a soul as you are so proud of, or look with such hate and disdain on any other man. I really feel sorry for you. Ok. I'm selling fresh new insults, three for ten dollars. How many ya wanna buy? 50 might last ya about 10 posts.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Marx and Lenin were suspicious of all religions, especially after Marx's father converted, because being Jewish was "in convenient'' It didn't fit into his thinking, so he would have had no interest in me at all. Sorry, you strike out again.
Red, you are a false Christian at best. A real Christian would never have as black a soul as you are so proud of, or look with such hate and disdain on any other man. I really feel sorry for you. Ok. I'm selling fresh new insults, three for ten dollars. How many ya wanna buy? 50 might last ya about 10 posts.

You're pretty suspicious of the Bible as you don't believe it.  The Bible is to Christians for Christians and so it must not apply to you.

Acts 11:26  And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits... and humbly to implore His protection and favor.".... George Washington

You can try, but you just cannot separate a nation from the Creator.  And, if you do, it is always a losing proposition.

When the name of God was re-introduced back into the Democrat platform, the vote was booed by those who wanted no part of that.  And, despite what was said, those who heard the vote knew that it was equal on both sides.  Those for and against were in almost equal numbers!  It was all about removing the competition.  Well, that is not the United States of even 20 years ago.  Instead, it is a new mind set, a new people who have a completely different vision of what America should be.

Slick Willie Clinton was prodded by Newt Gingrich to balance the budget.  He rang up a new high in the debt as president and it took closing the government down twice to get him to straighten up and fly right, but he did it.  He did work with Congress and with Newt.

Slick Willie is no fan of Obuma yet politics is so corrupt that he is willing to talk him up to get him elected in spite of everything.

But Clinton is not Obuma whose idea of change for America is to make it a 3rd world Marxist clone complete with a huge pervasive and invasive bureaucracy lording it over servile citizens who stand in line for their daily one ply sheet of environmentally correct recycled toilet paper.  After pulling up their pre-owned underwear, they head off to the soup kitchens for a ladle of  government approved genetically modified  soup.

Obuma sees the United States as a problem that needs to be removed from the world scene.   He has no fond memories of America because it is not his nation, born here or not.

His father's dreams are his dreams and he told you so.   And those dreams include the end of the West as a great power.  His father's dream is to punish the West for their supposed wrongs.  Hence his apologies for America in foreign nations.

America embarrasses the Obamas' and they fail to see the great good America has done for the world.

In looking around for information on this post I came across George Will's piece on Obama's desire to change America.  Notice the difference between the new Progressives ideas on government versus those of our Founding Fathers who felt that  rights are God given, not government allowed.


"Progress, as progressives understand it, means advancing away from, up from, something. But from what?

From the Constitution's constricting anachronisms. In 1912, Wilson said, "The history of liberty is the history of the limitation of governmental power." But as Kesler notes, Wilson never said the future of liberty consisted of such limitation.

Instead, he said, "every means . . . by which society may be perfected through the instrumentality of government" should be used so that "individual rights can be fitly adjusted and harmonized with public duties." Rights "adjusted and harmonized" by government necessarily are defined and apportioned by it. Wilson, the first transformative progressive, called this the "New Freedom." The old kind was the Founders' kind — government existing to "secure" natural rights (see the Declaration) that preexist government. Wilson thought this had become an impediment to progress. The pedigree of Obama's thought runs straight to Wilson.

And through the second transformative progressive, Franklin Roosevelt, who counseled against the Founders' sober practicality and fear of government power: "We are beginning to wipe out the line that divides the practical from the ideal" and are making government "an instrument of unimagined power" for social improvement. The only thing we have to fear is fear of a government of unimagined power:

"Government is a relation of give and take." The "rulers" — FDR's word — take power from the people, who in turn are given "certain rights."

This, says Kesler, is "the First Law of Big Government: the more power we give the government, the more rights it will give us."


Do you see why God needed to be removed from the Democrat platform and why there was booing when God and Jerusalem were reinstated?

It is God who orders life. Not governments and not men.  Anyone else is a poor substitute.  Thousands of years of history show abysmal failure by governments.
 
The Founding Fathers  realized that and tried as best as they could to make sure that no one could come into possession of such power that might lead to oppression of the people.  That is why they reject rights that are government ordained in favor of rights that are God ordained.

They held the government to a standard that demanded acknowledgement of  the Creator and saw itself as subservient to Him.
It's the best there is for now.

Once that is gone, all hell breaks loose.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Red, you are a false Christian at best. A real Christian would never have as black a soul as you are so proud of, or look with such hate and disdain on any other man.

How judgmental for one who has so often & loudly railed against being judged by others.  A black soul? And then you end with yet another cry against judgement.  And this from a person who is so devoid of heart as to judge Christianity and yet has no part in it, as you said,  "But I do have my faith and I am a very spiritual being. Let me walk in the woods with slanting sun rays, a gentle breeze, a nearby brook and birds singing and I am in my church."

How about you stick with your babbling brook and leave Christianity to those who are not ashamed of their Savior.  

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Marx and Lenin were suspicious of all religions..

Looks as if the three of you have even more in common, Diane.

Unfortunately i seem more and more of Americans worshipping the creation instead of its creator!   

Quote from: srkruzich on September 09, 2012, 06:42:08 PM
Unfortunately i seem more and more of Americans worshipping the creation instead of its creator!   

Which, it is written, is the direct evidence & result of having changed the truth of God into a lie.

There is no point in trying to talk to either of you and I don't know how anybody else can either.  You cannot speak for what's in my mind or heart.To try to pretend otherwise is pure folly. Just keep it up, so people can keep on seeing what you are really like.The devil really has you in his grip, doing his bidding.
   I don't ever judge other people's faith and I cannot believe your comprehension level is so poor for someone who talks so high and mighty. I just explained my feelings on that a few posts ago. BUT I will not be insulted about my own faith without calling you on it.
  You are free to play with rattlesnakes ,drown witches , refuse medical treatment or whatever religion suits you, store front or otherwise. That is entirely up to you.  I'll ask you once again to stop adding things or editing what I say to something I didn't say.
I'm no Bible expert and neither are you. That's why there are several versions of the Bible. Much more educated Bible scholars than you don't even agree. IMHO, not being able to agree to disagree on something as complicated as religion is extremely immature and childish. So be it. Enough on that.
 Red, don't you dare ever ask me a question again.You are not to be trusted.  Enjoy keeping on with the name calling...it suits you. Pat you have lost the ability to tell the truth from a lie. Have fun. Some day you will have to account for your attitude.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
Some day you will have to account for your attitude.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Red, you are a false Christian at best.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
A real Christian would never have as black a soul as you are so proud of, or look with such hate and disdain on any other man.

Given your words above.  I'll let the following lie stand on its own.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
I don't ever judge other people's faith...

And, it is written, the measure with which you judge, you shall also be judged.  Take care the measure you use in making your judgments.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 06:55:28 PM
There is no point in trying to talk to either of you and I don't know how anybody else can either.  You cannot speak for what's in my mind or heart.To try to pretend otherwise is pure folly. Just keep it up, so people can keep on seeing what you are really like.The devil really has you in his grip, doing his bidding.

:LOL Diane, were not speaking for whats in your heart only what came out of your mouth or fingers to be more correct.
I believe you said and i am paraphrasing here, your spiritual you go into the woods and listen to the birds and the creek and whatnot.  That my dear is Nature worship, worshipping the creation over the creator! 
This type of worship can be found in taoism through wickian religions.  Not christianity or even judaism. 
I'm sorry but that is what you said.  :)

QuoteI don't ever judge other people's faith and I cannot believe your comprehension level is so poor for someone who talks so high and mighty. I just explained my feelings on that a few posts ago. BUT I will not be insulted about my own faith without calling you on it.

Who judged you?  You judged yourself if anyone did any judging, you SAID you worshipped nature. Not us. we just pointed out a obvious detail that it is worshipping the creation not the creator which is absolutely true. 

QuoteYou are free to play with rattlesnakes ,drown witches , refuse medical treatment or whatever religion suits you, store front or otherwise. That is entirely up to you.  I'll ask you once again to stop adding things or editing what I say to something I didn't say.

And this time you are the one adding things to what both patriot and I said. No one mentioned burning witches. LOL

QuoteI'm no Bible expert and neither are you. That's why there are several versions of the Bible. Much more educated Bible scholars than you don't even agree. IMHO, not being able to agree to disagree on something as complicated as religion is extremely immature and childish. So be it. Enough on that.

No i'm not a expert but i do know what i am talking about, and so what if theres 100 translations there are 99 absolutely incorrect translations.  Only 1 is truth and that by far is KJV or originial greek and hebrew.  The KJV just happens to be the most correct translation to english out there.  AND It has strongs to give the original greek and hebrew words tied directly to each and every word in the KJV so that you can see it is the correct and true one. 
The rest save but only a couple i believe the uhm thompsons chain reference is another kjv with links to related passages.  They are the only uncorrupted versions out there. The rest has been tainted corrupted and distorted by every tom dick n harry that doesn't agree with the truth.  They wrote them to make truth subjective.


You know you do treat anyone that disagrees with you like they are idiots.  Kinda got that new englander uppity air.    Just cold hard facts there diane.  Might wanna come down off that petard you hoisted yourself on before you fall.  I hear the landing is brutal

So my going into the woods can't be my church?.  One does not have to worship nature to feel peace and a connection there. I didn't mention that I often read my Bible when I find a good quiet spot, because frankly that isn't your business. In fact one of my favorite spots is a wonderful glen not far from the Presbyterian church where they sometimes have vespers in the summer.  Ya lied again.    Hope ya think you are having fun.  I never said I worshiped nature, show me the quote smart guy!

Sure looks that way. 

Church.  You don't seem to understand what is a church.


2 Corinthians 4:1-7
King James Version (KJB)

1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 09, 2012, 09:10:41 PM
So my going into the woods can't be my church?.  One does not have to worship nature to feel peace and a connection there. I didn't mention that I often read my Bible when I find a good quiet spot, because frankly that isn't your business. In fact one of my favorite spots is a wonderful glen not far from the Presbyterian church where they sometimes have vespers in the summer.  Ya lied again.    Hope ya think you are having fun.  I never said I worshiped nature, show me the quote smart guy!

hmm you didn't read my post correctly.  Come on, comprehension.    I SAID I PARAPHRASED.  Sheeesh i didn't quote ya cause i don't care about quoting you enough to go through the posts looking for it.  BUt it is what you said. :)

Why is the fact you read the bible none of anyones business.  Are you ashamed of Christ and his word?  Thats something  that christ followers would shout out to the world.  In fact not spreading his word is a sign that one is ashamed of him. he said so.   

Quote from: redcliffsw on September 09, 2012, 09:19:02 PM
Sure looks that way. 

Church.  You don't seem to understand what is a church.


2 Corinthians 4:1-7
King James Version (KJB)


3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

MOST excellent point. same thing i was referring to in my post. .To hide it is to be ashamed of christ and to hide the truth from those that are lost

Quote from: srkruzich on September 09, 2012, 09:39:15 PM
To hide it is to be ashamed of christ and to hide the truth from those that are lost.

Yes, assuming it is those among the brethren doing the hiding.  The unbeliever can't hide or be ashamed of that which they don't possess. 

If you believe the Bible to be true, then naturally you'd believe it.  Otherwise, it's hidden.  Complicated?  No.  Hidden.
Srkruzich, I'm thinking that's what you're saying.

Here's something I copied from a church website:

We invite you back to the simple faith of our fathers.

John 3:16-18 says,
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Quote from: Patriot on September 09, 2012, 09:45:07 PM
Yes, assuming it is those among the brethren doing the hiding.  The unbeliever can't hide or be ashamed of that which they don't possess. 

Agreed.

Mar 4:21    ¶    And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?