This is a deadly serious business. I hope I'm wrong, but something smells rotten.
-Major General Jerry Curry, USA (Ret.)
http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/17/who-does-the-government-intend-to-shoot/#ixzz23zqNF4Zw
Quote
In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? What's the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.
And all the moderates & peace loving libs said,
"No! Not here! Surely can't be. This is America... can't happen here!" Think not? Ask the Polish, Germans, Latvians, Italians, Russians, Jews and millions of others who learned too late the truth of the old saying:
Power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Let's see..nobody goes nuts when LEOs go to the range and use piles of ammunition 4 times a year. I do believe the military actually practices with the ammo they really use too. So do the fire marshals, FBI agents, fish and wildlife, security guards, border guards, etc. So FPS agents shouldn't practice and with the ammo they would actually use during civil unrest? No, I am not for violent civil unrest, so don't try to stick that to me.
Perhaps we firefighters should practice just using a garden hose! Now go grab a 5 inch line by yourself and try it without practice. You would not like the result.
Why the big deal? Practice uses up a lot of ammo. Gotta get ready in case those PBs act up again. I'd love to know who is trying to spook people and why some are falling for it. I'd love to know if this is really the usual SS ammo order. Clear that up for me won't one of you?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 21, 2012, 03:23:42 PM
Why the big deal?
Poor, poor Diane. Your buddy, Blowin Delaware Joe really has y'all in mental chains. Analyze the following:
Quote
In the war in Iraq, our military forces expended approximately 70 million rounds per year. In March DHS ordered 750 million rounds of hollow point ammunition. It then turned around and ordered an additional 750 million rounds of miscellaneous bullets including some that are capable of penetrating walls. This is enough ammunition to empty five rounds into the body of every living American citizen. Is this something we and the Congress should be concerned about? What's the plan that requires so many dead Americans, even during times of civil unrest? Has Congress and the Administration vetted the plan in public.
By the way.... ammunition has a 'use by' date, and the government generally abides by those dates. Target practice at DHS will not likely consume 1.4 million rounds in time to avoid mandatory destruction by the ordinance disposal folks. Further, 'target rounds' (not expensive hollow points) are usually employed for mass training. I tend to agree with the General. This looks more like a pre-operation buildup than it does a routine stockpiling for training purposes.
The Government does not destroy all outdated Ammo. I have bought lots of it along with M1Garands and M1 Carbines.
Quote from: frawin on August 21, 2012, 06:15:07 PM
The Government does not destroy all outdated Ammo. I have bought lots of it along with M1Garands and M1 Carbines.
Yes, it's sometimes sold into the market. I've hauled trucks full of it to EOD, but I've never seen it kept in active stockpiles much past shelf life.
Quote from: frawin on August 21, 2012, 06:15:07 PM
The Government does not destroy all outdated Ammo. I have bought lots of it along with M1Garands and M1 Carbines.
Actually they do! I tried to buy the outdated ammo from my sons unit, and they send it to the shredders. They no longer allow us to buy the ammo or the brass.
They are still selling it, you can't buy it direct you have to buy it thru an agent they use.
Nope, Patriot, Joe has nothing to do with my thinking, although he was home recently. By the way, it would be nice if some of you would judge him by what he accomplishes instead of his foot in mouth problem, which we all know he has always had. I could really share some good ones, but I wont. ;D As a child he had a terrible stutter, which he worked hard to overcome, and he almost died a few years back from an aneurysm, actually there were two.
As VP he is doing exactly what he should be during the President's election bid. I know as non Dems you aren't supposed to like him and that's alright. He is very well thought of by both parties in DC.
Conversations with my own LEOs and some others who are just post military, and some who are still in, and others who shall not be named ;) have to do with my wondering about the ammunition.
Attaching the amount of ammunition ordered to a number of "dead Americans" to me is just scare tactics. I read that entire article by the way, and also the one doing the math on the number of rounds times the number of personnel. Which matched. I sent a few E-mails too, to get personal information. I just depends on who you want to believe, to further the opinions you already have. I'm also told that folks who depend on their guns do use exactly the ammunition they would really be using ,not some cheaper ammo that wouldn't fire the same way...hence my comment about garden hose and fire hose. People who only have partial information are talking like they are experts...again. Besides, somebody is making big bucks off those ammunition sales . Good for the economy. Now ask me about my own skill with a weapon. ;)
Florida is also ready for trouble of the kind that happen in and around conventions. Nature may send them a big storm, not the hot air kind either ..bears watching.
OK, now back to your argument.
In any case, on expiration the government will dispose of it one way or another, and 1.4 million rounds is a boatload of ammo to buy and hold just to dispose of. No? I doubt that DHS has a legitimate training use for this much gunpowder n lead. Still smells of pre-op stockpiling.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 21, 2012, 06:51:01 PM
Nope, Patriot, Joe has nothing to do with my thinking, although he was home recently. By the way, it would be nice if some of you would judge him by what he accomplishes instead of his foot in mouth problem, which we all know he has always had. I could really share some good ones, but I wont. ;D As a child he had a terrible stutter, which he worked hard to overcome, and he almost died a few years back from an aneurysm, actually there were two.
Next time he comes home... keep him! If he's got a medical issue that affects his reasoning, he has no business being one heartbeat away from the Oval Office.
As for your thinking... Since your optical rectitus & liberal myopia are obviously giving you problems, I'll repeat myself....
Quote from: Patriot on August 21, 2012, 10:59:12 AM
And all the moderates & peace loving libs said, "No! Not here! Surely can't be. This is America... can't happen here!" Think not? Ask the Polish, Germans, Latvians, Italians, Russians, Jews and millions of others who learned too late the truth of the old saying: Power corrupts & absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You, once again, clearly demonstrate your affinity for the group(s) identified & their mindset.
Quote from: Patriot on August 21, 2012, 06:53:27 PM
In any case, on expiration the government will dispose of it one way or another, and 1.4 million rounds is a boatload of ammo to buy and hold just to dispose of. No? I doubt that DHS has a legitimate training use for this much gunpowder n lead. Still smells of pre-op stockpiling.
DHS has no need for .50 cal or that many rounds. I wonder what the collective amount the civilians have stockpiled is. :)
Quote from: srkruzich on August 21, 2012, 07:01:17 PM
DHS has no need for .50 cal or that many rounds.
I'm not sure... Auantie Janet looks like she could handle a .50 lol
Quote from: Patriot on August 21, 2012, 07:05:34 PM
I'm not sure... Auantie Janet looks like she could handle a .50 lol
I noticed that social security has bought 170k rounds. What are they afraid of? Other than our seniors not getting their money.
Quote from: srkruzich on August 21, 2012, 07:08:14 PM
I noticed that social security has bought 170k rounds. What are they afraid of? Other than our seniors not getting their money.
Same with NOAA... all for catching poachers. Reasonable people ask these questions Steve.... bleeding hearts are satisfied to have the government tell them it's for target training by SSA office door guards & NOAA'S internal police force. Uh huh, right.
A fool and his money (life?) are soon parted.
Quote from: Patriot on August 21, 2012, 07:20:27 PM
Same with NOAA... all for catching poachers. Reasonable people ask these questions Steve.... bleeding hearts are satisfied to have the government tell them it's for target training by SSA office door guards & NOAA'S internal police force. Uh huh, right.
A fool and his money (life?) are soon parted.
yeah really interesting why the weather man needs ammo....afraid we are going to come after him over this drought or something?
Nope, not just for poachers... the fish and wildlife folks also come across pot groves and meth labs, etc. hidden out in rarely traveled areas...until hunting season, and by then they have harvested or moved on. Some times the helicopter finds them. Regardless they do need to be armed. They do come across wanted people who are hiding out, drug runners, and people out to steal boats and gear and assault and rob campers.
By the way, Philly lost a police office yesterday. A couple of thugs tried to rob the off duty officer, who was armed, but by the time he realized and pulled out his weapon they shot him several times. Their weapons were out. His wasn't. The perp. always has the advantage. Really sad.
I'd still like to know if these are the common ammunition orders that some one is making a big deal of because of election time or is it more than usual. I know what I was told. If it is more, why wouldn't they? 'Take back the Gov't. by any means necessary"...sounds like potential violence threats to me.
If Romney does get in he would be doing the same thing, so what's the big deal?
Patriot...yeah, right.... to whom? Exactly what "group" are you trying to tie me to?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 22, 2012, 10:38:13 AM
'Take back the Gov't. by any means necessary"...sounds like potential violence threats to me.
Of course, if you read Warph's post here: www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,13787.199.html
It gives a whole new picture of "by any means necessary".
Sounds also like an utterance of the Founders as they conspired to eradicate the king's tyranny in the new colonies. And, yes, it sometimes expressed itself as violence. Tell us, what are you willing to do to stop the erosion of the liberties spelled out in the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution? If someone comes for your life, liberty & property are you gonna talk em into submission? Or do you have the intestinal fortitude & moral courage of a Patrick Henry? From what I've read, the former applies.
Give me liberty or give me death. - Patrick Henry
Since I don't live in the rough and tumble 18th century, but do live in one of the 13 original colonies I can tell you easily what I would do now. First of all I'd sort through all the conspiracy theories and decide what is a real threat. Next, I'd figure out what real liberties I'd lost...none so far, so I'd know what to be angry about.
n fact, it is you all who are trying to make it hard for people to vote, so you are the ones in desperation trying to take away the liberty and guarantee of the vote. You are also trying to stop my freedom of speech, but so far you have failed. As far as the revolution, it took years for that final decision to be made, with much discussion and argument and it was about a country far away treating us unfairly as subjects. Not the same thing. Nothing but hot air happens overnight.
Your guns have not been taken away. With the exception of some Ag products you can freely trade across any border you choose, travel without papers, eat as much as you want and shop at whatever store you choose.
I can, and did, start any small business I choose, no guarantee of success or prediction of failure.
I've lived through WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. I've seen political upheavals before, some very close up, none threatening me personally. I'm more concerned about hurricanes and serious tropical storms. Now there is a real threat.
Being female, I have no need to be a big brave he man..in fact I'd "cheat" every time I could. If something really broke, I'd be right back on the ambulance. At home? I told ya I'd shoot you...uh, them, right through the door...or bore them to death with stories, or make them so grateful to me for my famous fried chicken and crab cakes they would switch sides immediately. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No, I do not take all this very seriously. So be it. I do not often hang around the ghetto sides of big cities, nor out where the foil hat communes and survivalists are, I'm not going to either convention and my SS won't be bothered...too old.
I'm not sure who you expect to come riding into Elk County, guns drawn, to harm you. What do ya gots that someone might want? Yer guns? Wouldn't they already have their own?
Gotta go mill grind out some tom sauce. Have fun.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 22, 2012, 12:09:48 PM
Since I don't live in the rough and tumble 18th century, but do live in one of the 13 original colonies I can tell you easily what I would do now. First of all I'd sort through all the conspiracy theories and decide what is a real threat. Next, I'd figure out what real liberties I'd lost...none so far, so I'd know what to be angry about.
n fact, it is you all who are trying to make it hard for people to vote, so you are the ones in desperation trying to take away the liberty and guarantee of the vote. You are also trying to stop my freedom of speech, but so far you have failed. As far as the revolution, it took years for that final decision to be made, with much discussion and argument and it was about a country far away treating us unfairly as subjects. Not the same thing. Nothing but hot air happens overnight.
Your guns have not been taken away. With the exception of some Ag products you can freely trade across any border you choose, travel without papers, eat as much as you want and shop at whatever store you choose.
I can, and did, start any small business I choose, no guarantee of success or prediction of failure.
I've lived through WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. I've seen political upheavals before, some very close up, none threatening me personally. I'm more concerned about hurricanes and serious tropical storms. Now there is a real threat.
Being female, I have no need to be a big brave he man..in fact I'd "cheat" every time I could. If something really broke, I'd be right back on the ambulance. At home? I told ya I'd shoot you...uh, them, right through the door...or bore them to death with stories, or make them so grateful to me for my famous fried chicken and crab cakes they would switch sides immediately. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D No, I do not take all this very seriously. So be it. I do not often hang around the ghetto sides of big cities, nor out where the foil hat communes and survivalists are, I'm not going to either convention and my SS won't be bothered...too old.
I'm not sure who you expect to come riding into Elk County, guns drawn, to harm you. What do ya gots that someone might want? Yer guns? Wouldn't they already have their own?
Gotta go mill grind out some tom sauce. Have fun.
Quote from: Patriot on August 22, 2012, 11:01:36 AM
are you gonna talk em into submission? Or do you have the intestinal fortitude & moral courage of a Patrick Henry? From what I've read, the former applies.
Give me liberty or give me death. - Patrick Henry
I rest my case.
Oh my. It's starting to sound like a courtroom, with Diane on trial. What happened to freedom of speech and open discussion?
All quotes aside, what are you truly prepared to do? And how can you say with certainty what your actions would be should the situation actually arise?
I hope you didn't mean me. I've got two generations behind me to do whatever is needed to stop crazy self serving loonies from wandering like zombies and turning into uncivilized criminals. If they really need me to fight, we are in very bad shape. Yes, I can shoot but I don't want to have to.
I would be right back on the ambulance picking up the pieces of those who would really rather act like cave men. I know Pugs, Chip, Scott and my other military friends would do the right thing.
Sounds to me like someone is drinking the same kool-aid as Joe BS Biden. ::)
Shooting through the door? Hmm. Not the brightest of tactics. Famous fried chicken and crab cakes ? Never heard of them, not even when in Delaware.
Glad I have my own support/ arsenal / friends if the need arises, because I wouldn't want to depend on anyone vouching for Biden. You might as well say you trust Pelosi, Feinstein or Boxer to protect your liberty.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 22, 2012, 08:22:40 PM
... picking up the pieces of those who would really rather act like cave men.
Absent some clarification, I'm sure there are a lot of people in uniform, defending your liberties, who are unimpressed with your 'cave men' description. I don't imagine the minutemen at our founding would have appreciated it either. I know I didn't.
It seems too easy for some of our 'moderate' citizens, having never offered their lives in defense of liberty, to sit on the sidelines and throw out pejorative labels & then call their remarks a simple 'gaffe'. But go ahead and play the Biden gaffe card. I suppose we can attribute it PTSD resulting from the trauma experienced during some film in a first aid training class.
Considering it is all a hypothetical situation, I'll take grape please. :angel: If you visit Delaware come to my house and I'll fix my great fried chicken and crab cakes for you, even if you are very narrow minded. We welcome all kinds of people here.
Remember, I'm a moderate Independent. I'm not afraid of anybody!
I just can't imagine what you are so worried about. ;D( That was sarcasm.) Banking, yes, interest rates ,yes, job rates, sure, health insurance, maybe. Hugely rich folks, maybe.
I have no idea how old you are, so I don't know where you are on your "working to retirement scale."
I'm not crazy about the economic collapse either, but we worked hard for many years, always with multiple jobs I still have part time, but very well paid work when I want it, and can hang it up whenever I want or need to...all based on decisions we made...as anyone could, many years ago.
I went after the education I needed to succeed in the field I chose. Anybody can do that! We have a lot of savings because we invested and worked hard on it. It wasn't dumped in our laps.
Better keep an eye on that hurricane or the Rebubs. could be scattered to the winds!
Patriot......You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. No, the "cave men" were not military and I really resent the implication .
Al gave his polio legs to the military because of his loyalty to this country. He didn't run off to Canada or try to get some religious deferment or say he was "too good" to go into the military. He was very brave considering what he was dealing with. His father didn't create a national guard unit for him to hide in or try to get anyone to get him off once his health records were refused .They were taking anybody who was conscious. He didn't even have ROTC because he couldn't pass the physical! Unfortunately he got a low draft number and in 1968 he went to Fort Bragg.
As for me personally, you don't and won't ever know much I did, or the risks I took and fortunately got away with.( Do you even know who David Fine was?) HA! Gaffe my foot! Is there nothing mean enough that you wouldn't say it to me? You sir, have a ugly heart of stone.
PTSD? I'm a counselor! Perhaps you mean spirited hateful ones should look in the mirror .Maybe PTSD is your problem. So much for civil discourse. Geez!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 23, 2012, 01:54:13 PM
You sir, have a ugly heart of stone.
As you oft remind us here in flyover land concerning yourself...you know absolutely nothing of me, either. Perhaps being so personally judgmental is your nature. I don't know. And thanks for adding to Al's ever growing biography.... but Al isn't and never has been at issue here. In case your reading comprehension levels are dropping, notice I said, "Absent some clarification..." Thanks for providing 'some'.
Now, about those 1.4 million rounds of ammunition Janet and her pals at DHS are ordering....
And speaking of Janet N and her girlfriends: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin081712.php3
(http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin081712.php3)
Sorry, you're not going to get a biography from me. :P If I wanted fried chicken, I'd go to my sister's house and for crab, I'd go to New Orleans where it's all good.
Back on track, Wildlife and Parks certainly doesn't use that much ammo, they aren't even allowed to go on private property without the sheriff . Sounds like a real crime wave happing in the woods back there, pot, meth, fugitives, lions and tigers and bears, OH MY!
I agree about the food in NO. Wonderful good :D! But the crabs are here, no long trip involved and we grow kazillions of chickens downstate too.