From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
KOMA Meetings
1. What is a meeting, as defined by KOMA?
Three conditions must be met in order for a meeting
to occur. All three must be satisfied. They are:
• Interactive communication in person or by
telephone or any other medium
• A gathering of or by a majority of the
members of the agency or body
• Discussion of the business or affairs of that
body or agency.
2. How is "interactive communication" applied?
The best way to determine if "interactive
communication" has taken place is to think of
it as two-way communication. For example, an
email from one member of a body to the rest of
the body members is only one-way, until there is a
reply, and then it becomes two-way.
The two-way communication can be by any
means, including using individuals as "go betweens."
this is all just more government regulations. Who the hell does that government think they are, trying to tell citizens how to run their meetings
From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
EXECUTIVE SESSIONS; WHEN CAN A MEETING BE CLOSED AND MATTERS PRIVATELY DISCUSSED?
Q. When can a group subject to the KOMA close its meetings?
A. The body may go into an executive session (after convening an open meeting), in order to privately discuss a matter, if (a) the discussion is on a topic listed in K.S.A. 75-4319 and (b) the correct procedure is followed for going into executive session.
Q. Does a public body have a duty to close certain discussions?
A. Not under the KOMA. The KOMA allows executives session discussions; it does not require them.
Q. Does the KOMA require members of a public body to refrain from publicly revealing matters that were discussed while in executive sessions?
A. No. Some other laws, or considerations such as fiduciary duty, personal privacy rights, or contracts, may require or influence such confidentiality. But the KOMA itself does not require that the topics listed in K.S.A. 75-4319 always be kept private.
From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
Interactive Discussion Rules
Q. Does a meeting have to be "prearranged" for the KOMA to apply?
A. No. All that is required is that the three elements of a meeting occur; (a) An interactive discussion (NOTE: discussion alone triggers the KOMA, it is not necessary that action or votes be taken); (b) by and between at least a majority of the body; (c) on matters relating to the functions of that body. All three elements must be present to trigger the KOMA.
Q. Can a majority of the members of a public body informally discuss public matters outside of an open meeting?
A. No. Informal discussions before, after, or during recesses of a public meeting are subject to the KOMA.
Q. Is it OK to privately discuss public matters as long as no action is taken?
A. Binding action or voting is not necessary; discussion is what triggers KOMA.
From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
EXECUTIVE SESSIONS; WHEN CAN A MEETING BE CLOSED AND MATTERS PRIVATELY DISCUSSED?
Q. What topics can be discussed in an executive session?
A. Those topics listed in K.S.A. 75-4319(b) can be privately discussed by a public body subject to the KOMA.
Q. Can a public body subject to the KOMA use executive sessions to discuss general employee related topics?
A. No. The personnel exception in K.S.A. 75-4319(b)(1) is intended to protect the privacy of individuals. Thus, if no individuals are being discussed, that exception to openness does not apply.
Thanks Patriot...All very interesting reading and I'm tucking it away in my brain for future use!---Jennifer
You're welcome. Stay tuned, there's more to come.
From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
Q. How does a public body properly go into an executive session?
A. 1. First the public body must be in an open session, before going into an executive session.
2. Then, a motion must be made, and seconded. The motion must contain statement of:
(1) Justification for closure;
(2) Subject(s) to be discussed; and
(3) Time and place open meeting will resume.
Example: "Madam Chairman, I move we recess into executive session to discuss disciplinary action against a student in order to protect the privacy of the parties involved. We will reconvene the open meeting in the conference room at 8:30 p.m."
Q. When making a motion to go into an executive session, are justification and subject the same thing?
A. No. Motions for executive session should contain subject and justification statement, which are not the same thing. The subject is one of the topics listed in K.S.A. 75-4319(b). The justification is an explanation of what is to be discussed (without revealing confidential information.)
From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
Q. Does the KOMA allow use of the "personnel exception" to privately discuss other board members or elected officials?
A. No. The personnel exception is intended to allow discussion of employees. Officials, whether elected or appointed, are not ordinarily considered employees.
Q. Does the KOMA require members of a public body to refrain from publicly revealing matters that were discussed while in executive sessions?
A. No. Some other laws, or considerations such as fiduciary duty, personal privacy rights, or contracts, may require or influence such confidentiality. But the KOMA itself does not require that the topics listed in K.S.A. 75-4319 always be kept private.
Q. Do all votes have to be recorded in minutes?
A. No, at least not under the KOMA. The KOMA only requires that motions to go into executive session be recorded.
KSA 75-4319: Closed or executive meetings; conditions; authorized subjects for discussion; binding action prohibited; certain documents identified in meetings not subject to disclosure. (a) Upon formal motion made, seconded and carried, all bodies and agencies subject to the open meetings act may recess, but not adjourn, open meetings for closed or executive meetings. Any motion to recess for a closed or executive meeting shall include a statement of (1) the justification for closing the meeting, (2) the subjects to be discussed during the closed or executive meeting and (3) the time and place at which the open meeting shall resume. Such motion, including the required statement, shall be recorded in the minutes of the meeting and shall be maintained as a part of the permanent records of the body or agency. Discussion during the closed or executive meeting shall be limited to those subjects stated in the motion.
From the Office of the Kansas Attorney General...
WHAT HAPPENS IF I THINK THE KOMA HAS BEEN VIOLATED?
Q. Who can enforce the KOMA and go to court on alleged violations?
A. The KOMA can be enforced by the Attorney General, by county or district attorneys, or by private citizens.
Q. What penalties may result from a violation of the KOMA?
A. Up to $500 fine per violation (per member violating it); injunction/mandamus/declaratory order; voiding illegal action (if a public prosecutor files a petition within 21 days after the alleged violation); possible grounds for ouster or recall (separately pursued actions).
Intemperate questions.....
Do our elected officials know that ignorance of the law is not a defense in court?
Do they care?
Listen, there's a real lack of logic here. Aren't you against government regulation? You keep spamming this forum with complaints that Elk Konnected isn't following government regulations, yet you're against regulations on corporations. Do you see the problem here?
I see no problem with laws that limit the powers of government to act in its' own interests to the exclusion of citizens... do you? Nor do I see any problem with laws that limit the ability of select private bodies corporate to exercise undue influence on government to advance their private agendas (especially from within government) ... do you?
#2 ;D
Fine example of how the rule of law has given way to emotional pleas for social justice by those too lazy or liberally indoctrinated to 'get it'. This thread was nothing but a source of factual information and a question or two that could only be addressed by people close enough to observe local events & relate to them. Wow.
Quote from: Patriot on November 10, 2011, 06:44:48 PM
I see no problem with laws that limit the powers of government to act in its' own interests to the exclusion of citizens... do you? Nor do I see any problem with laws that limit the ability of select private bodies corporate to exercise undue influence on government to advance their private agendas (especially from within government) ... do you?
So describe undue influence, are you against lobbying and political campaign contributions? Because according to conservatives, corporations are people and money is speech.
Ok. I did read the open meeting laws and Patriot is correct on how executive sessions, etc., are conducted. I just don't agree with talking about the EMS director in open session even though they did not use his name.
Quote from: Janet Harrington on November 12, 2011, 02:12:15 PM
Ok. I did read the open meeting laws and Patriot is correct on how executive sessions, etc., are conducted.
Thank you.
Quote from: Janet Harrington on November 12, 2011, 02:12:15 PM
I just don't agree with talking about the EMS director in open session even though they did not use his name.
I'm afraid you might be missing some facts. The discussion to which you refer was initiated as a discussion about departmental wages and overtime practices. The EMS Director spoke up and increasingly led the discussion away from overtime policy and toward himself in particular. Further, let's remember that matters of wages and overtime policy are matters of public interest.
My impression is that, for too long, some county employees/officials have relied on the false sense protection or secrecy that executive sessions appear to provide. In fact many matters are better served by public airing... especially when no valid personal privacy issues are not involved. And wages ain't no secret according to the law.
If you want to message me, I'll gladly provide more information.
Patriot, Thanks for the info. I guess I didn't read the information correctly. I just find it so odd that people are getting paid so much to work in Elk County now. I just can't comprehend it. Oh, well. I guess since I don't work there anymore, I want to say it's not my concern, but that's not true either. It is my concern. But when I think about how much they, The EMS Director and The Sheriff, are getting paid, I just get sick to my stomach and get so angry about it. I need to step back now and let you all that have not held those positions handle the commissioners.
Quote from: Janet Harrington on November 12, 2011, 09:30:39 PM
But when I think about how much they, The EMS Director and The Sheriff, are getting paid, I just get sick to my stomach and get so angry about it.
I honestly can't tell if that was sarcasm or seriousness. ???
But on the chance you were serious, then the disparity between those salaries and average pay for all the other county employees would probably only add fuel to the fires of injustice. As would the fact most others haven't seen any increase in some 5 years.... and now are seeking only a buck an hour (salaried and hourly alike).