There are 111 Vesta wind turbines sprouting up in the tallgrass prairie of Elk County just west of Howard that will eventually provide enough wind power to supply electricity to 70,000 households.
The turbines that make up the Caney River Wind Project will stand 270-feet in the air on concrete towers, poured with 370 yards of concrete each, on 14,000 acres of land and can be seen for miles while approaching Howard. The site is located approximately 11 miles west of Howard in Elk County, recognized as one of Kansas' poorest counties.
From the Caney River project site, another wind farm located in Beaumont, closer to the Wichita area is visible, but the two sites are not connected in any way.
The Elk County project, owned by Enel Green Power North America, is expected to have an economic impact on the businesses and residents of Elk County of at least approximately $3 million annually through lease agreements with land owners and payments in lieu of taxes to the county. The project's contributions to the county will represent a 50 percent increase in annual revenues, according to Kossara Marchinkova, director of external relations and communications for Enel North America.
While the project is destined to help Elk County economically, another purpose of the wind farm is to alleviate or avoid the emission of over 580,000 tons of carbon dioxide per year into the atmosphere, which is what would be created by generating an equivalent amount of power through other means.
K.R. Liebau, chairman of the Elk County Commission, applauded Enel and its subcontractors for their congeniality during the negotiating process and since the construction on the project started.
"Those people have been wonderful to work with," Liebau said. "We negotiated the contract and they have done the things that have given Elk County an economic boost."
"They have used Cornejo Rock Company in Moline for most of their rock, which allowed those guys to hire some additional people at pretty decent wages, and the pizza places and service stations have done quite a lot of business. I'm guessing the little service station there in Moline has fixed more tires since the project started than he ever has," Liebau said.
Liebau said the Caney River Project will pay Elk County $990,000 per year for the next 20 years with a 2 percent increase every year after that.
"If the three of us on the county commission can't operate this county on an extra $990,000 per year maybe the people ought to elect some new commissioners," Liebau said with a laugh.
He said the contractors have done a good job of using local businesses for supplies and goods since the inception of the project.
"It's been good to Elk County," Liebau said.
Substantial completion of the Caney River project is set for the end of December 2011, while the final completion date is not set until the end of the first quarter of 2012, according to Bernie Holst, Enel's vice president of engineering and construction for wind, headquartered in San Diego, Calif.
Holst said that of the 111 wind turbines that will dot the landscape, 51 are currently fully constructed.
"We have 51 of the turbines constructed and 80 of the towers set so far," Holst said. "We have received delivery of 82 of the turbines to the site, and there are actually 12 of the turbines currently generating power at the Caney River site."
Joe Conti, the assistant site manager, said the turbines that were spinning in the 30 mph winds were generating power. Keith Abshier works as the site manager for Enel.
"You can see the wind blowing those turbines over there. They are generating power at full capacity right now," Conti said.
He said the winds on the hill average up to 10 miles per hour, but some days the wind speeds are much greater.
"I understand yesterday (Tuesday) the winds were blowing at about 30 mph and would have been a great day for us to have all 111 turbines operating and generating power," Holst said.
"It would have been a great day for generating power but not for having people on the cranes putting the towers together," Holst said.
Holst said there will be 10 electrical circuits sending power from the site and eight to 12 of the turbines will be hooked up to each circuit.
The wind farm is being designed to generate 200 megawatts of wind power to the area. The Tennessee Valley Authority will distribute the power. Holst did not know where the 70,000 homes that will benefit would be located.
Since the construction was initiated there has been an electric substation constructed on the site, and nearly 38 miles of road have been built.
Holst also said an operations and maintenance facility that will house 15 to 18 people on site daily has been completed.
"The Caney River Wind Project was developed by EGP NA's development partner Trade Wind Energy and has a power purchase agreement with the TVA. Once fully operational, the wind farm will generate 765 million kilowatt hours of power annually," according to a press release put out by Enel Green Power.
The project will assist the economy of Elk County in the long run, but at present the hundreds of workers flocking to the site are generating economic benefits in terms of rental housing, motel stays and food and fuel.
"I've been in Howard since February, and the project began in May here at this site," Conti said.
Conti said there are approximately 300-350 workers on site in different capacities, as the wind turbines begin to dot the landscape of Elk County.
Because he was one of the first on site, Conti got the first pick of possible locations to reside while the wind farm is under construction.
"I am renting an attic apartment in Howard," Conti said.
"All these men and women are generating economic development in Howard, Elk County and throughout this area. This should be and is a big boost to this area."
Enel's overall investment in the project amounts to approximately $350 million.
The Caney River Wind Project is committed to funding for a Native Environment Conservation Plan focused on the tallgrass prairie in Kansas. The money is expected to fund the purchase of conservation easements for over 18,000 acres, the restoration of 6,000 acres of tallgrass prairie habitat and wind and wildlife research focused on this eco-region, according to Enel.
EGP-NA, a part of Enel Green Power, is a leading owner and operator of renewable energy plants in North America with projects operating and under development in 21 U.S. states and three Canadian provinces.
EGP-NA owns and operates over 70 plants with an installed capacity of around 800 megawatts powered by renewable hydropower, wind, geothermal, solar and biomass energy. Together with its development partners (TradeWind Energy, LLC and Geronimo Wind Energy, LLC) EGP-NA is aiming to double its total installed capacity within the next few years.
Holst said Enel's partner, TradeWind Energy, was responsible for finding and selecting the Elk County site for the Caney River project.
Enel Green Power is an industry leader worldwide thanks to some 22 billion kilowatt hours generated from water, sun, wind and geothermal, meeting the energy needs of some eight million households and avoiding 16 million tons of carbon dioxide emissions each year. The company has an installed capacity of more than 6,100 megawatts, with over 650 facilities around the world and a generation mix that includes wind, solar, hydro, geothermal and biomass.
In terms of wind power, according to EGP-NA, they operate 405 megawatts of wind power in Kansas, New York, Minnesota and Canada. The Smoky Hills Wind Farm in Kansas, located near Salina, is the largest in Enel's worldwide portfolio (155 turbines, 250 megawatts). The Snyder Wind Farm in Texas boasts the largest turbines in the Americas at 345 feet.
While the Caney River facility is under construction, a 150 megawatt Rocky Ridge Wind Farm in Oklahoma is scheduled to begin construction by the end of 2011. -----Story by Allen Smith, Independence Reporter, Sunday Edition, Living Section November 6, 2011
Robert and Jennifer: A great big thank you for posting this. I have learned more from it than from all the other things that I have heard and read. Thank you again.
And for the people who wonder why I didn't just read the paper for myself, I don't get the Independence paper, something that is seeming more and more desirable every day.
Quote from: kshillbillys on November 06, 2011, 02:10:28 PM
Liebau said the Caney River Project will pay Elk County $990,000 per year for the next 20 years with a 2 percent increase every year after that.
One would think the Chairman of our county commission could at least get his facts straight.
The accurate statement should have been, "We receive $4500 per nameplate megawatt capacity of producing units, and that $4500 increases by 2% each year after the first year. The duration of the agreement is 20 years." Small detail I suppose, but shouldn't people we entrust with such things at least be accurate in their public statements? I could br wrong, but as I read the PILOT Agreement, we won't get the full $900,000, not $990,000, this year (200MW x $4500) unless the project is capable of producing 200 Megawats this year. We'll see.
saw on fox today where windturbines are interfering with our nations security as well as weather forcasting. Seems that they create a magnetic field which blocks radar in the area.
Quote from: srkruzich on November 06, 2011, 07:44:07 PM
saw on fox today where windturbines are interfering with our nations security as well as weather forcasting. Seems that they create a magnetic field which blocks radar in the area.
Liberal elitist environmentalists... big plans.... new projects... unintended consequences. Surely not!
Stimulus Money paid to foreign companies building wind farms.
How many billions or trillions of dollars in profit do we have to export before we wise up?
Enel is on one of the list below, Enel is an Italalian owned company. However, I have read that the government has quit releasing information about these grants.
I can't find anything upp to date on this subject.
This link talks about a Mexican Company
The Peñascal Wind Farm is operated by PPM Energy, a Spanish company with North American headquarters in Portland, Ore.
Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/environment/article/S-Texas-wind-farm-wins-114M-in-funding-847761.php#ixzz1cyp0jX8k
Interesting reading.
Renewable energy money still going abroad, despite criticism from Congress
In fact, the largest grant made under the program so far, a $178 million payment on Dec. 29, went to Babcock & Brown, a bankrupt Australian company that built a Texas wind farm using turbines made by a Japanese company.
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/wind-energy-funds-going-overseas/story/renewable-energy-money-still-going-abroad/
10's of Millions in grants, just a few of them:
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/wind-energy-funds-going-overseas/htmlmulti/map-wind-stimulus-recipients-receiving-awards-work/
Here are a bunch more Grants one for $178,004,264:
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/wind-energy-funds-going-overseas/story/renewable-energy-stimulus-grants/
This link is special
Powerful Democrats help Chinese energy firm chase stimulus money:
Top Democratic fundraisers and lobbyists with links to the White House are behind a proposed wind farm in Texas that stands to get $450 million in stimulus money, even though a Chinese company would operate the farm and its turbines would be built in China.
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investigations/wind-energy-funds-going-overseas/story/powerful-democrats-help-chinese-e/
How many billions or trillions of dollars in profit do we have to export before we wise up?
Quote from: srkruzich on November 06, 2011, 07:44:07 PM
saw on fox today where windturbines are interfering with our nations security as well as weather forcasting. Seems that they create a magnetic field which blocks radar in the area.
What bigger threat do you need threatening our nations security besides the massive export of cash to foreign countries that I just posted?
whatever happened to the law requiring that if you got a grant you had to hire americans
Did you know the wind turbins for our wind farm ar built in Sweden. More money exported.
Try reading this piece of information before assuming you know where things come from:
http://www.vestas.com/en/media/news/news-display.aspx?action=3&NewsID=2673
"Vestas' Colorado-based factories will be involved in manufacturing the blades and towers, as well as nacelle and hub assembly, for the Caney River project, which will be the third-largest wind farm in Kansas. This project will provide direct and indirect economic benefits to Elk County in terms of long-term jobs and property-tax revenues generated from the turbines."
Quote from: flintauqua on November 06, 2011, 09:00:23 PM
Try reading this piece of information before assuming you know where things come from:
http://www.vestas.com/en/media/news/news-display.aspx?action=3&NewsID=2673
"Vestas' Colorado-based factories will be involved in manufacturing the blades and towers, as well as nacelle and hub assembly, for the Caney River project, which will be the third-largest wind farm in Kansas. This project will provide direct and indirect economic benefits to Elk County in terms of long-term jobs and property-tax revenues generated from the turbines."
Vest is still a Swedish owned company. So where do you think the profits of the sale of the turbins goes?
American labor my build them but the profits still go to Sweden don't ya think?
And explain to me how this is any different than BP or Royal Dutch Shell having operations in the US that send returns on capital investment offshore? Or Bayer, or Siemens, Daimler-Benz, Toyota, Honda, etc.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 06, 2011, 09:17:17 PM
And explain to me how this is any different than BP or Royal Dutch Shell having operations in the US that send returns on capital investment offshore? Or Bayer, or Siemens, Daimler-Benz, Toyota, Honda, etc.
It's not. Do you think those companies are maufacturing here to help us?
The profits go right straight to their mother country.
We get the lollipops and they get the cake and ice cream and presents.
Exporting all that money, just can't be good for our country.
Or do you really think it is?
So, you're saying that we shouldn't allow these foreign multi-nationals to operate here? What about all the U.S. based multi-nationals that have operations outside the US. If it's fair for our companies to give other countries lollipops to build and/or buy things that result in profits coming back to the US, then the opposite should be allowed, don't you think?
Quote from: flintauqua on November 06, 2011, 09:34:56 PM
So, you're saying that we shouldn't allow these foreign multi-nationals to operate here? What about all the U.S. based multi-nationals that have operations outside the US. If it's fair for our companies to give other countries lollipops to build and/or buy things that result in profits coming back to the US, then the opposite should be allowed, don't you think?
Do our companies get grants and government hand outs?
Do you like our jobs being exported to cheaper labor in foreign companies?
Especially while unemployement is so high here at home?
Is there any accountability for equal flow of cash?
Our own country has even stopped repporting how much is being granted for recyclable energy. Why?
Vestas is a Danish company and our headquarters is based out of Denmark. Swedish?? have no idea where you got that from...
Not all of these components came from Colorado, some of the tower sections came from Vietnam.
Dumb me, thinking I could answer something to Ross' satisfaction. I forgot, for every one of his questions that gets answered, he has five more to ask. ::)
Rule one of Forum - Ross is never wrong!
Rule two of Forum - If Ross is wrong, he won't admit it, he'll just ask more questions!
Out! :angel:
Flintaqua check this out.
Quote from: Jo McDonald on November 05, 2011, 02:48:07 PM
Christmas 2011 -- Birth of a New Tradition
As the holidays approach, the giant Asian factories
are kicking into high gear to provide Americans with monstrous piles
of cheaply produced goods merchandise that has been produced at the
expense of American labor. This year will be different. This year
Americans will give the gift of genuine concern for other Americans.
There is no longer an excuse that, at gift giving time, nothing can be
found that is produced by American hands. Yes there is!
Do you see what Real Americans are thinking? What do you thinking is happening on the National scountry?
Don't you think people are getting frustrated with a little bit of everything. Especially, selling out the citizens and our ccountry?
It has been building for more than 30 years. Wake up.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 06, 2011, 09:56:39 PM
Dumb me, thinking I could answer something to Ross' satisfaction. I forgot, for every one of his questions that gets answered, he has five more to ask. ::)
Rule one of Forum - Ross is never wrong!
Rule two of Forum - If Ross is wrong, he won't admit it, he'll just ask more questions!
Out! :angel:
Oh really.
I suppose your way of telling people what to do is better than asking.
You are quite wrong, prove me wrong and I will admit it.
Come on over to http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.0.html
and answer a few questions and prove me wrong. I'll eat crow if you can back up anything you say with provable facts.
I do think you believe everyone should believe, everything you say wheather you can prove it or not, without question.
I also believe you are unable to answer a question honestly.
Goodnight.
From one of the bastions of Libertarian thought, the CATO Institute:
Globalization
"When goods, services, and capital flow freely across U.S. borders, Americans can take full advantage of the opportunities of the international marketplace. They can buy the best or least expensive goods and services the world has to offer; they can sell to the most promising markets; they can choose among the best investment opportunities; and they can tap into the worldwide pool of capital. Study after study has shown that countries that are more open to the global economy grow faster and achieve higher incomes than those that are relatively closed."
http://www.cato.org/globalization
And, no Ross, I'm not going to your billboard thread, no matter where all you advertise it.
Ross, I have supported "Buy American" and "Shop Local" programs for over two decades, so take your 'Real American' comment and stick it up your . . . nose. One of the reasons I do not work for big-box retailers anymore is because I got tired of selling a bunch of crap that was made overseas.
I shop locally, for goods made as close to home as possible first. I purchase globally sourced goods from mega-retailers rarely, and only as a last resort.
Find something else you think you know about me to chastise me about!
Two words, Chuckie: Trade Deficit.
Plug that in and see if Ross isn't right about a net dollar outflow.
Tell us, is this the business acumen you applied during your tenure as the Elk County Economic Development Director? If so, it sure explains a lot.
the "libertarian" free trade will work only if you take the government out of it and their "favorite" nation status type governing.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 06, 2011, 09:56:39 PM
Dumb me, thinking I could answer something to Ross' satisfaction. I forgot, for every one of his questions that gets answered, he has five more to ask. ::)
Rule one of Forum - Ross is never wrong!
Rule two of Forum - If Ross is wrong, he won't admit it, he'll just ask more questions!
Out! :angel:
Flintauqua, I am so sorry you get so upset over a few questions.
But surely, you understand questions must be asked, before answers and solutions can be addressed.
The who, what, where, when and why must all be answered to come to proper solutions.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 06, 2011, 10:13:19 PM
And, no Ross, I'm not going to your billboard thread, no matter where all you advertise it.
More questions,
because I don't have the answers,
because without the questions,
I can get no answers.
Is that perhaps because you have no honest answers?
Or is it because you are like EK and don't care for 2 way conversations?
How can I be wrong, when I don't have the answers.
I am just looking for real and honest answers.
What are you looking for?
Ross, putting question marks at the end of each of a never ending string of accusations does not somehow change them into something innocuous.
There is no changing your mind on anything, and by making all these accusatorial statements masquerading as questions, you are stating your predetermined position on an issue, thusly there is no reason to expect a response.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 07, 2011, 10:33:48 AM
Ross, putting question marks at the end of each of a never ending string of accusations does not somehow change them into something innocuous.
There is no changing your mind on anything, and by making all these accusatorial statements masquerading as questions, you are stating your predetermined position on an issue, thusly there is no reason to expect a response.
Then why do you respond? ROFLMAO
Whether any of you agree or not, I am looking at the small picture of things. The wind towers going up has boosted Elk County and surrounding counties at a time when we can all use the boost! We have two rental properties and got them both rented with, at last count 8 guys I think. Plus, the quick mart and PJ's have more than likely increased income, along with the restaurants in the counties. To me, we need to think locally, cause if we don't look out for Elk County we know that our president won't. I support America, and don't like that they are making things outside of the USA and bring it here to sell. But it's been going on for way to long, and that is part of why I shop locally for almost everything!!! Keep my tax dollars in ELK county!
You know Angie that is all well and fine if you think that way.
However, if we are going to sell out our country in my opinion we should do it like Enid, Oklahoma.
Same company, same number of wind turbins.
We get close to a million while Enid get's close to three million.
Enid get's a larger lollipop.
Just my opinion.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on November 07, 2011, 09:25:20 PM
...The wind towers going up has boosted Elk County and surrounding counties at a time when we can all use the boost!
True... now what happens in Feb/March 2012 when those workers leave?
Guys, We really do have to be grateful for what we have at this time.
Hoping good things will continue. Knowing there will be lots of bumps along the way...but we as individuals
have to keep on keepin' on, for the the best results.
Well said, Jo.......my thoughts too.
Not a day goes by that everything is easy and not a little bumpy.
Why make it harder on ourselves by looking for problems before they
happen.
I am not advocating putting your head in a basket, we must be aware, but
most of our generation has been through "hard knocks" before and will weather
them, if and when we must.
I do feel sorry for the modern? generation who expects things to happen "RIGHT NOW"
Sometimes it pays to "Look for the silver lining" in our lives.
A big THANKS to you, Jo and Judy, for your positive attitude. All of the negative trash has really hurt the Forum, several people have told me they have stopped looking at it and if they do look they don't want to comment on anything because of trash/negative answers. I think Elk County is still a great place to live and still has some of the best people I have known in my lifetime. As far as the Windfarm I think Elk County is fortunate to get it and it will pay off for years to come. Not only will you get tax money from it it will employ several people. If there was some out of US investment in it, it happened because Americans were not willing to do it, besides American investors invest all over the World as well. Any Trade Imbalance that came from Foreign investment is nothing compared to what American Companies invest in Foreign Oil production. Like it or not we are in a world that evolves around worlewide investment/trade. The great thing about Wind generated Electricity is that it is Clean, non- hydrocarbon powered and it is a natural clean renewable energy source.
Jo amd Judy, keep the positive attitude going. You are appreciated.
Frank, thank you for reminding us about the huge investment that US investors have made overseas. Trade seems to work two ways. One person trades something to someone else for something that they agree on. Where would we be if we couldn't do that? It is a big world that can be circled in less than a day. That brings us all closer together. That means that we all have to do what we can to get along. Kind of like brothers and sisters. You've got them, better make the best of it. They are there, make the best of it. Be happy or be miserable. Your choice.
Well said Wilma.
Just excuses for selling out our country. It goes on all across the US of A.
We have a trade deficit.
It is only a 45.6 Billion.
The United States reported a trade deficit equivalent to 45.6 Billion USD in August of 2011.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade
When do we wake up and face the music when the deficit is 45.6 Trillion?
Ya, know I run a trade deficit of sorts.
I do for people that can't afford to pay a professional and I do it to be helpful to my neighbors when I can.
I don't charge them even for diesel to rototill their gardenss, or to give them a trailer full of compost for their garden.
I recently dug trenchs for new lateral lines for a lady's septic system, no charge.
And I have done many other things that were a deficit to me. But I do it locally and for my neighbors.
But, I don't appreciate or have a 45.6 Billion dollar deficit, there is nothing neighborly about that. There is nothing good for our country in that. But Who cares, let's be happy and positive and ignore the truth. Afterall it does not affect us directly, just affect's our country. Sure trade between nations and investement is a good thing especially for the other countries.
Keep up the positive thinking, and be happy aboout it, it hides the real truth.
I chose to live here because of this county's location and I happen to like it very much. I have enjoyed meeting the people that live here. Why, because it reminds me of the people of the 1960's most are friendly and helpful and live the small town lifestyle.
Well said Ross
Ross, 35 Billion of that Deficit is from Oil and Petroleum products. US companies have invested in every country in the Free World and many Communists controlled countries. GM built more cars in China last year than they built in the US. The Labor unions in the US drove many companies to look overseas for manufaturing of their products.
I'm sometimes reminded of the chaotic street scent in the end of the movie Delta House...
The part where all hell has broken loose, and that poor kid is frantically waving his arms and yelling, "All is well! All is well".
Funny..... in the movie.
Quote from: Ross on November 07, 2011, 09:38:52 PM
You know Angie that is all well and fine if you think that way.
However, if we are going to sell out our country in my opinion we should do it like Enid, Oklahoma.
Same company, same number of wind turbins.
We get close to a million while Enid get's close to three million.
Enid get's a larger lollipop.
Just my opinion.
Ross, the blame for the difference between the Caney River project and the one near Enid is not the fault of anyone in Elk County. Oklahoma puts wind energy projects on the tax rolls, subject to whatever local ad valorem rate applies. Kansas, by way of statute that became effective Jan 1, 1999, exempts renewable energy projects, including wind, from property taxes. So, blame the legislators and governor that were in office in 1998, no one at the Elk County level made that the law.
When compared to other wind energy projects in Kansas, I believe Elk County negotiated an excellent Payment In Lieu Of Taxes (PILOT) for the Caney River project. Butler County only gets $150,000 per year for twenty years from the 150 MW Elk River project. Cloud County was basically forced to accept a PILOT that stipulates $100,000 in Y1, $150,000 in Y2, $200,000 in Y3, and $300,000 per year for the remainder of the 20 year agreement. This being on the 201 MW Meridian project.
I'm sure you will find something wrong with the aforementioned facts, since nothing can be an absolute fact until you or Patriot decide it is, and let the rest of us mere mortals know of your decision.
ALL HAIL ROSS AND PATRIOT!
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 02:50:23 PM
ALL HAIL ROSS AND PATRIOT!
Flintaqua,
Snide remarks and excuses do not change the fact that this exist.
The United States reported a trade deficit equivalent to 45.6 Billion USD in August of 2011.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-tradeWhen do we wake up and face the music when the deficit is 45.6 Trillion?
So soory for you.
I believe frawin explained that the majority of that trade imbalence is for energy. Can you not read? Or do you just continue to turn a blind eye to facts that don't fit your assumptions and view-points.
I guess you don't disagree with the facts I posted about the PILOT amounts?
And I learned my snideness from this Forum, speciffically the level of snideness that has existed since you and Patriot joined it.
Ross a big share of that trade deficit was for foreign manufactured goods in plants Owned all or partially by US companies. Below is the US Chamber of Commerce response on US investment in Foreign Companies.
Secure U.S. Investment Overseas
Americans derive important benefits from U.S. investment abroad. While three-quarters of U.S. multinationals' capital expenditures are in the United States, sales by their foreign affiliates nonetheless topped $5 trillion in 2008. In fact, roughly half of all revenue earned by Fortune 200 companies came from their foreign affiliates in recent years. These earnings provide American companies with a growing pool of capital to help them grow, innovate, and create better jobs at home.
An open investment regime that allows U.S. multinationals to invest abroad does not create a zero-sum game in which a job created abroad is a job eliminated at home. In fact, U.S. companies that invest abroad create 2.3 jobs in the United States for every one they create overseas. U.S. companies with worldwide operations tend to pay higher wages and create more jobs in the United States than other firms do. Earnings from abroad help fund U.S. multinationals' R&D, 80% of which is performed in the United States.
Nor does an open investment regime that allows U.S. multinationals to invest abroad create a race to the bottom. Two-thirds of U.S. investment abroad goes to developed countries with wages and labor standards similar to those in the United States. When U.S. multinationals do invest in developing countries, they often create the best paying jobs around, with the best working conditions.
Most U.S. investment abroad is in sectors that cannot be served by means of exports. More than 93% of the production of foreign affiliates of U.S. multinational companies is sold outside the United States, a fact that belies the myth that foreign investment is all about "offshoring" jobs in pursuit of low wages.
The U.S. Chamber is committed to ensuring strong protection of U.S. investments overseas. The rule of law, sanctity of contracts, and respect for property rights are the touchstones of respect for international investment—and the United States should fight for these principles in markets around the globe.
For three decades, the United States has negotiated bilateral investment treaties (BITs) to protect U.S. investments abroad, and similar provisions are included in bilateral trade agreements. BITs open foreign markets to U.S. investment, uphold contract and property rights, and level the playing field by prohibiting discrimination against U.S. companies and guaranteeing them the same rights and responsibilities as domestic investors. BITs guarantee transparency with respect to investment-related laws and regulations.
BITs also provide recourse to investor-State arbitration in the event of expropriation. These arbitral procedures mirror U.S. Constitutional protections against arbitrary government actions and against taking of property without compensation.
In developing countries where local judiciaries are at times slow, ineffective, or corrupt, U.S. companies have benefited significantly from recourse to investor-State arbitration. Even though these provisions are invoked infrequently, they serve as a positive admonition to governments to avoid arbitrary actions in commercial disputes lest the case wind up before an international arbitration panel.
Unfortunately, the United States badly lags its trade competitors in the race to open foreign markets through BITs. Germany, China, the United Kingdom, and France have each entered into BITs with 100 or more nations, while the United States has done so with just 40. A Chamber analysis recently found that the 10 countries with the most extensive investment treaty networks have entered into BITs with more than 100 countries where the United States has no investment agreement of any kind. As a result, U.S. companies are increasingly placed at a competitive disadvantage in growing markets such as China, India, and Russia.
The substance of these treaties is equally critical. In this context, the Chamber has urged a closer examination of the challenges posed by state-owned and state-influenced enterprises abroad. U.S. BITs have long recognized that some foreign governments skew the playing field to favor national champions and discriminate against U.S. and other foreign companies. Future BIT negotiations provide a unique opportunity to address these growing challenges.
Now more than ever, foreign governments are finding more subtle and damaging ways to evade the spirit of BIT commitments — which a focus principally on governmental rather than private action — by leveraging the state's involvement in commercial enterprises. The Chamber has pressed for meaningful changes to the current model BIT to ensure that state involvement in economic affairs is conducted in a transparent, open, and market-based manner. Otherwise, American workers and businesses may be placed at a competitive disadvantage for years to come.
America's continued prosperity in a highly competitive world demands that we negotiate additional high-standard investment treaties. The Chamber strongly supports negotiating BITs with China, India, and Vietnam, and, when circumstances permit, with additional large economies such as Brazil and Russia. As other countries around the globe pursue their own BITs, decision-makers in Washington should be wary of how these may place U.S. companies at a competitive disadvantage should the United States lag in its own negotiations.
In the end, BITs and other measures to protect investment are crucial, but the underlying principles of the rule of law, sanctity of contracts, and respect for property rights are even more so. Their protection should always be at the fore of American international economic policy, even in countries where formal investment protection agreements remain a distant goal.
Chamber Recommendations
The United States should vigorously defend the rule of law, sanctity of contracts, and respect for property rights as central to our international investment policy.
The United States should move forward in already launched bilateral investment treaty (BIT) negotiations with China, India, and Vietnam and open talks with other major markets.
Future BITs should include disciplines on state-owned enterprises and guard against policies that promote them as national champions and discriminate against U.S. and other foreign companies.
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Thank you Frank for providing that excellent information.
Foreign Direct Investment in the United
States: An Economic Analysis
James K. Jackson
Specialist in International Trade and Finance
February 1, 2011
Congressional Research Service
7-5700
www.crs.gov
RS21857
Foreign Direct Investment in the United States: An Economic Analysis
Congressional Research Service
Summary
Foreign direct investment in the United States declined sharply after 2000, when a record $300
billion was invested in U.S. businesses and real estate. [Note: The United States defines foreign
direct investment as the ownership or control, directly or indirectly, by one foreign person
(individual, branch, partnership, association, government, etc.) of 10% or more of the voting
securities of an incorporated U.S. business enterprise or an equivalent interest in an
unincorporated U.S. business enterprise. 15 CFR § 806.15 (a)(1).] In 2008, according to
Department of Commerce data, foreigners invested $325 billion. Foreign direct investments are
highly sought after by many state and local governments that are struggling to create additional
jobs in their localities. While some in Congress encourage such investment to offset the perceived
negative economic effects of U.S. firms investing abroad, others are concerned about foreign
acquisitions of U.S. firms that are considered essential to U.S. national and economic security.
$350 million in property and improvements and we only get $1 million a year in taxes? Really?? And thats not until they get up and running? Employ Elk Countians? Any guess in how many out of state license plates there are running around?
Elk county got screwed plain and simple.
Not to mention those things are butt ugly to look at.
Animal House. ;)
I am not hiding a blind eye to nothing. Would I like the US to get out of the red, you bet you I would. But plain and simple, in all things you start off small. If we get any sort of income from the Wind farms it's a good thing if you ask me. I believe to many people look at the negative in everything and not positive things. We are fortunate that the workers that are coming into Elk County are as nice as they are. Everyone that I have met are nice and friendly. The guys that we rent from are paying us in a timely manner, are not tearing up our property, and work usually 7 days a week.
I don't like that the Towers are not US built, but what are we to do? Honestly? Got the answers????? Please do tell!!!
quote author=frawin link=topic=12802.msg179330#msg179330 date=1320787790]
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[/quote]
I see you copied and pasted but where is the link?
quote author=frawin link=topic=12802.msg179330#msg179330 date=1320787790]
Ross a big share of that trade deficit was for foreign manufactured goods in plants Owned all or partially by US companies.
Below is the US Chamber of Commerce response on US investment in Foreign Companies.
[/quote]
I believe, I was discussing the Trade Deficit for the Country of the United States of America. I was not talking about private investements. If you invest a few dollars over seas and put it in your account, just as the foreign companues do that has nothing to do with the trade deficit idoes it?
If US companies own the plants, that would decrease our trade deficits by bringing the profits home to the US, unlike the wind farm that makes our deficit much larger by shipping dollars to foreign country. In escense exporting our dollars.
Quote from: frawin on November 08, 2011, 03:29:50 PM
Ross a big share of that trade deficit was for foreign manufactured goods in plants Owned all or partially by US companies. Below is the US Chamber of Commerce response on US investment in Foreign Companies.
Yes, we import more than we export that's why the deficit. That is the reason for the trade deficit. so good point on your part.
We even invest tax dollars in these foreign owned wind farms and allow them to export the profits in dollars to their countries.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on November 08, 2011, 06:33:09 PM
I am not hiding a blind eye to nothing. Would I like the US to get out of the red, you bet you I would. But plain and simple, in all things you start off small. If we get any sort of income from the Wind farms it's a good thing if you ask me. I believe to many people look at the negative in everything and not positive things. We are fortunate that the workers that are coming into Elk County are as nice as they are. Everyone that I have met are nice and friendly. The guys that we rent from are paying us in a timely manner, are not tearing up our property, and work usually 7 days a week.
I don't like that the Towers are not US built, but what are we to do? Honestly? Got the answers????? Please do tell!!!
As long as it lines your pocket, it is a positive thing. But is it good for our and your country? What happens after all the workers leave in a few short months. Who will you rent to then?
Personally, I am all for good things, especially when they are presented honestly and truthfully. Ignoring the truth for profit is what has been going on in this country for at least thirty years.
Show me something positive for the deficit about taxpayers dollars going into build the wind farm for Italy?
Show me something positive for the deficitabout all the profits from this wind farm going to Italy?
Where is the patriotism in supporting other countries over our own country?
As I have said I don't know the answers or I would not ask the questions.
Oh yea, let's think positive and ignore the reality of the trade deficit.
The United States reported a trade deficit equivalent to 45.6 Billion USD in August of 2011.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-tradeWhen do we wake up and face the music when the deficit is 45.6 Trillion?
Damn i just figured out what they'll make off of elk county when in full operation and Yall got F******* badly!
THey'll pull in 83million a year, NO TAXES, and only paying yalll a piddling 900k
THATS CHUMP CHANGE!
Again, how is it the fault of anyone in Elk County? This wind farm could have been built anywhere in Kansas and it would not have become part of the tax base; not county, city, school, state, watershed district, extension, or any other taxing authority. The 1998 state legislature and then Governor Graves created that situation, not anybody local.
The meaning of Payment In Lieu Of Taxes is a bit of a misnomer, as the entity paying the PILOT has no legal obligation to pay anything, as there is no tax owed.
A PILOT is not a locally negotiated tax break, it is a locally negotiated tax GAIN. Again I reference the Elk River wind farm at Beaumont. Butler County will only receive $150,000 a year for 20 years, or $1000 per MW. Elk County will receive $4500 per MW per year, and that amount increases by 2% per year for the length of the 20 year agreement.
The Meridian project, in Cloud County, is 201 MW, the same size as Caney River. Yet their local government coffers will only receive a total of $450,000 for the first three years combined, and then only $300,000 a year thereafter for the next 17 years.
So tell me how Elk County got screwed or f'd or whatever word you want to use?
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 08:13:19 PM
Again, how is it the fault of anyone in Elk County? This wind farm could have been built anywhere in Kansas and it would not have become part of the tax base; not county, city, school, state, watershed district, extension, or any other taxing authority. The 1998 state legislature and then Governor Graves created that situation, not anybody local.
What tax base, they won't be paying taxes on it for at least 20 years or so. Something from nothing gives exactly nothing. LOL
QuoteA PILOT is not a locally negotiated tax break, it is a locally negotiated tax GAIN. Again I reference the Elk River wind farm at Beaumont. Butler County will only receive $150,000 a year for 20 years, or $1000 per MW. Elk County will receive $4500 per MW per year, and that amount increases by 2% per year for the length of the 20 year agreement.
As i said before whoever negotiated this sucks at negotiation. These companies are making 80million+ a year. Paying no taxes, and giving yall chump change to keep folks quiet about it. In the very least they should be giving the county at least 10% if they wanna do business here and not provide mroe than a couple jobs IMO. Its not like they can just go anywhere in the US and build one. They chose this particular spot because it fits their needs. ONLY the negotiator sucked at their job.
Quote
So tell me how Elk County got screwed or f'd or whatever word you want to use?
Simply put the negotiators or Govt officials appear to be in the pockets of the Power companies. I still don't get the landowners letting them build these monstrocities on their land for the pittance they pay for the use of the land. Heck cell towers pay a ton more money than the power companies do apparantly.
You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
Quote from: Wilma on November 08, 2011, 09:16:14 PM
You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
No, he doesn't Wilma. But remember, he is a Ross/Patriot disciple, so by their definition he's right and I'm wrong.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 09:23:16 PM
No, he doesn't Wilma. But remember, he is a Ross/Patriot disciple, so by their definition he's right and I'm wrong.
Daja' Moo and how assinine.
Quote from: Wilma on November 08, 2011, 09:16:14 PM
You really don't know what you are talking about, do you?
I'm sorry srkruzich she may be right, this time.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 08:13:19 PM
Again, how is it the fault of anyone in Elk County?
Didn't the county commissioners negotiate the PILOT Program and the contract?
And isn't One of the County Commissioner related to the Perkins family where part of the wind farm is.
And one County Commissioner Liebau who has land there or some other connection.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 08:13:19 PM
The meaning of Payment In Lieu Of Taxes is a bit of a misnomer, as the entity paying the PILOT has no legal obligation to pay anything, as there is no tax owed.
That sounds more like you are saying it is a lie.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 08:13:19 PM
So tell me how Elk County got screwed or f'd or whatever word you want to use?
Contracts are negotiated and it may have been better negotiated by people not involved with the company as partners, don't you think?
Especially since as you said it is not related to any taxes allowed by the state of Kansas.
Something to think about.
Yes, you're right Rauss. It is the commissioners fault that Elk County will be receiving over 4 1/2 times per MW what Butler County will be getting, and over 3 times as much as Cloud County.
And you can take Mr. Liebau out of this discussion, he wasn't a commissioner when the PILOT was negotiated and signed. The commissioners and county attorney that negotiated the PILOT would be McDonald, Jontra, Hendricks and Ware.
Do you know even half of what you spew to the world on this Forum?
And I award you a purple ribbon for the selective quoting trying to somehow twist my comment on the states tax excemption on wind projects:
"Again, how is it the fault of anyone in Elk County? This wind farm could have been built anywhere in Kansas and it would not have become part of the tax base; not county, city, school, state, watershed district, extension, or any other taxing authority. The 1998 state legislature and then Governor Graves created that situation, not anybody local."
Keep it up Rauss, you're looking dumber and dumber by the hour.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 10:46:00 PM
This wind farm could have been built anywhere in Kansas and it would not have become part of the tax base; not county, city, school, state, watershed district, extension, or any other taxing authority.
No it couldn't. First of all there are only certain areas that the govt will allow them to be built. Second of all, the testing they did prior to even selecting the site tells us that this site had the best results. So No they wouldn't have gone anywhere else. This is where they wanted to go and they sunk a lot into the epa tests, as well as the site tests for viability. They would have come up with 10 times what butler did if your negotiator would have been smart enough to negotiate it.
I've seen business aquisitions and quite frankly they used fear of loss and elk countys greed against them to aquire the site as cheaply as possible. ROTFL Basic aquisition 101. One of the best ways to sell someone they do not want is to show them something flashy to get their attention, get their interest peaked by dangling a flashy price, then tell them if they don't jump on it that you'll sell it to their neighbor down the road.
Hooks suckers in every single time.
Steve, you know even less on this one than Ross does. You might want to stop talking on this subject before you continue to prove it.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 11:44:58 PM
Steve, you know even less on this one than Ross does. You might want to stop talking on this subject before you continue to prove it.
Screw off flint You pompous blowhard son of a bitch
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 11:44:58 PM
Steve, you know even less on this one than Ross does. You might want to stop talking on this subject before you continue to prove it.
And flintauqua you don't appear to know anymore then we do. And that is why the excuses and the snide remarks it is a simple way to avoid an honest conversation.
Enid negotiated $3 million for the same company for the same number of MW output.Now that's a fact. Google it.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 08:13:19 PM
The meaning of Payment In Lieu Of Taxes is a bit of a misnomer, as the entity paying the PILOT has no legal obligation to pay anything, as there is no tax owed.
Perhaps the meaning of Payment In Lieu Of Taxes means exactly what it says.
In Lieu of means instead; in place of; as a substitute for.
I.E. Payment instead of tax.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 10:46:00 PM
And you can take Mr. Liebau out of this discussion, he wasn't a commissioner when the PILOT was negotiated and signed. The commissioners and county attorney that negotiated the PILOT would be McDonald, Jontra, Hendricks and Ware.
My error, oops did I say I was wrong? Yes, I did say that! Thanks for correcting me.
It sounded in the Independence Daily Reporter as if Mr. Liebau was taking all the credit for the PILOT, my bad.
You tell us the commissioners were not negotiating a PILOT when they tell us they were.
Who are we to believe?
Either it is a misnomer or it is not, it is not a bit of a misnnomer.
Misnomer is a term that suggest a wrong name or inappropriate designation.
Misnomer is a term that suggests an interpretation known to be untrue.
If this is true, Fact is, you are saying everyone in Elk County has been lied to.
What is with that?
And you just won't bend to a decent conversation will you?
And finally quoting your statement which includes the ability to click on the name of the quote to read the entire post.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 10:46:00 PM
And I award you a purple ribbon for the selective quoting trying to somehow twist my comment on the states tax excemption on wind projects:
Does this statement stand alone as a paragraph, yes it does. Is anything twisted, no.
It is identical to the statement in the original post, nothing twisted, nothing hidden.
But, thanks for the purple ribbon even though I did not earn it.
Quote from: flintauqua on November 08, 2011, 09:23:16 PM
No, he doesn't Wilma. But remember, he is a Ross/Patriot disciple, so by their definition he's right and I'm wrong.
This statement reflects arrogant ignorance on your part in my opinion.
Or is it one of those different thingy's going on?
Why do you have a problem with people thinking for themselves?
"Screw off flint You pompous blowhard son of a bitch"
Wow!!! Now that's an excellent example of having a honest, decent conversation on this forum. No wonder so many readers continue to join in and share their views in these open discussions.
No wonder so many viewers don't know what is true or not true. A simple sentence would convey so much more information about the subject and leaving off the personalities would expedite the receiving of the true information. Can't we get back to facts and leave out the generalities?
Good one Wilma.
ROFLMAO
Then take it to heart and try to stick to the simple truths.
Quote from: Wilma on November 09, 2011, 08:41:02 AM
Then take it to heart and try to stick to the simple truths.
Hae you been assigned Director of the Elk County Forum?
No. Have you?
I was jus curious.
I am not trying to direct.
Quote from: Ross on November 09, 2011, 10:05:09 AM
I was jus curious.
I am not trying to direct.
No, Ross, you don't try to direct. You and a small handful of others just try to make sure your's is the only voice heard on this Forum, by demeaninig and bullying everyone with a different point of view into submission, running them off of the Forum.
Have I in the past few days used some of the very same tactics, Yes.
What is the axciom - Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
Well it's been done unto me and others long enough, so I decided to do it back.
And now I'm done.
Have fun denigrating me some more.
Charles
Y'all are a hoot. You got "X" that posts his (or her ) opinion---then you got "Y" that has a totally different opinion---so then Y bitches about X and his followers because Y and his followers disagree with X and his followers so then Y tells X what a moron him and his followers are and now enters "Z" who in return denigrates Y so then Y deletes part of his posts and then looks like the victim. No wonder I got a damn migraine.
"If you won't let me build my road where I want in the sand box I'm gonna kick sand all over your village and take my trucks and cars and go home and you can use them stupid ol blocks of 2x4's you use as cars---so there !!!!
Oh yea, I hope the sand tunnel you build---you run into a pile of cat scat !!!"
Quote from: flintauqua on November 09, 2011, 11:28:33 AM
No, Ross, you don't try to direct. You and a small handful of others just try to make sure your's is the only voice heard on this Forum, by demeaninig and bullying everyone with a different point of view into submission, running them off of the Forum.
Charles
More daja moo followed by arrogant ignorance.
But you have every right to continue and I have fun reading it.
I find it humorus that you blame others, blame, blame, blame.
It's just a conversation.
I personally don't want to see you go.
So please keep it up.
Thank you.
Quote from: ddurbin on November 09, 2011, 08:12:37 AM
"Screw off flint You pompous blowhard son of a bitch"
Wow!!! Now that's an excellent example of having a honest, decent conversation on this forum. No wonder so many readers continue to join in and share their views in these open discussions.
Yup just like the open and honest conversation that ole flintboy there threw out at me. I've never said i was politically correct.
How about a time out for all of you and no playground time until after Thanksgiving. Instead write a 500 word essay on what you have to be thankful for ,then free anger management classes for several of you. The self aggrandizement and super egos are beginning to smell less than fresh.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 09, 2011, 03:11:43 PM
How about a time out for all of you and no playground time until after Thanksgiving. Instead write a 500 word essay on what you have to be thankful for ,then free anger management classes for several of you. The self aggrandizement and super egos are beginning to smell less than fresh.
That's beautiful Diane.
I'm in my corner.
LOL
Urtil you turn your head.
I am thankful that Elk County will be receiving $21,867,638 from the Caney River wind project over the course of the next 20 years. Is this amount less than the approximatly $3,000,000 per year that all the different entities that receive property taxes from the land involved in the Chisolm View Wind project in Garfield and Grant counties of Oklahoma will receive.
Yes.
Is it fair to compare a project in a state (Oklahoma) that does not exempt wind energy projects from property taxes by state legislative edict with a project in a state (Kansas) that does exempt wind energy projects from property taxes, no matter where they are located in the state, via a 1998 act of the legislature?
No.
Did the taxing entities of Grant and Garfield counties have to negotiate a payment from the Chisolm View wind project developers?
No. The developer is required under Oklahoma state law to pay whatever tax is levied against the assessed value of the project to all of the entities that have taxing authority over the land involved.
Did Elk County have to negotiate a Payment In Lieu Of Taxes (PILOT) to receive any direct monetary contribution to the county budget from the Caney River wind project developers?
Yes. If they had not, the county budget would have received nothing, as there is no legal obligation on the developers part to pay anything, because there is no enabling Kansas state statute that allows any local or state governmental entity to levy a tax upon the project.
So, again I reinterate. I am thankful that Elk County negotiated a sizable PILOT from the Caney River wind project developers, one that is more than 4 1/2 times per MW what Butler County will be getting from the Elk river project, and over 3 times as much as Cloud County will receive from the Meridian project.
Have a blessed day!
P.S Yes, I'm 185 words short. Sorry, Diane. ;D
Quote from: flintauqua on November 09, 2011, 04:28:11 PM
I am thankful that Elk County will be receiving $21,867,638 from the Caney River wind project over the course of the next 20 years. Is this amount less than the approximatly $3,000,000 per year that all the different entities that receive property taxes from the land involved in the Chisolm View Wind project in Garfield and Grant counties of Oklahoma will receive.
Good point, poor negotiations.
But is it:
Good for our country's trade deficit ---- NO
Good for our country's national security ------ NO
How many millions possibly billions will this company and other company's who are building all these wind farms with taxpayers dollars, how much will they take home to their country? How much is too much?
Ross, you can't find anything good to say about the wind farms?
By the way, teachers have 360 degree vision.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on November 09, 2011, 10:34:27 PM
Ross, you can't find anything good to say about the wind farms?
By the way, teachers have 360 degree vision.
Diane, would you consider 360 degrees of open mindedness with that 360 degrees vision?
Diane, First I am an American Citizen and a veteran and a taxpayer and therefore entitled to my opinion just as you are.
And due to the extreme trade deficit of our country that does affect our country's national security and I feel it is iimportant to bring to light this danger. As well as the problems created locally.
There are organizations that have poped up and apparently do not trust our elected officials to do the right thing. So they popped up to influence and attempt control, in my opinion.
Diane, I think the wind farms would be terrific if the Billions from free generation of electricity was kept here at home. Now isn't that something good to say about the wind farms?
And if that free electricity was sold to the US citizens at a reasonable rate. Just how do/does the average work-a-day taxpaying citizen benefit? How do you benefit personally while your tax dollars are being used to send all that money to foreign countries. You don't, do you? But, commerce does? Commerce is the wealthy? The wealthy benefit from your tax dollars, right?
I see minor benefit to some business for a short period of time, but how are they going to feel when all the work is completed and all the workers and heavy equioment leaves?
We have all been sucked in by the idea of going green to save the planet while our country's taxes are used to build these wind farms allowing the Billions in profits go to other country's and does nothing for our soldiers and veterans or any average citizen of our country.
Again, we have people and organizations in the county lining up to get their hands on the money the county government may get from it? The County Government is suppose to be there to be trusted to do the right thing, however it seems to have been compromised by association with Elk Konnected as two coutny commissioners are associated with Elk Konnected. You would have to be blind not to see what is happening here were you to look at the whole picture. And if it is happening here, what is happening in other communities where wind farms are being built? Perhaps those other counties and communities are not as fortunate as we are enough to have a forum like this
Elk County Forum where they can discuss it. But, back to the people and organizations here locally.
Our County Commissioner representing Elk Konnected attended the Red Hats club meeting and asked all the sweet elder lady members what they thought the monies should be used for. When told to lower peoples property taxes the Elk konnected County Commissioner Liz Hendricks (Perkins) told a little old lady who lives on a fixed income, no in a very polite way, that the money should be used for purposes other than lowering her property taxes. Go figure --- why do anything to help out the average tas paying citizen of Elk County. We have the highest property taxes in the state --- we are number one on the property tax rolls. Elk Konnected provided a whole list of stuff to the Elk County Commissioners that they want to spend the money on but you don't see that little old lady's suggestion on that list, do you?
At the Howard Chamber of Commerce the subject of the use of the PILOT money's was discussed and the seed planted to access those money's for their use.
I also, believe all this greed by commerce related to the PILOT is the reason for the development of ECCEF and Elk Konnected.
Sure, they want you to believe these organizations were developed before the Wind Farm. But, they probably won't admit to the fact that they were developed during the process of environmental studies and the wind evaluations and the during the talks and development of contracts with land owners (the Perkin"s and Liebau's and a few others) and the talks with various electrical companies to accept their wind generated electricity. All that did not happen over night and neither did ECCEF and Elk Konnected, although they did happen before the information about the wind farm was released. because they were privy to the nformation.
This is more about the wealthier people in Elk County then taking care of the people like the little lady that suggested they use the money to llower her property taxes. Do you realize that her suggestion to Elk Konnected never made the list provided to the Elk County Commissioners by Elk konnected? Do you think that is proper? Why?
There has been so much more information about the list and who is involved at
http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.0.htmlThere is a lot of contoversy at this link and Elk Konnected refuses to return and continue the discussion, and the only reason I can figure they won't return is because the double talk by them was being exposed. They don't dispute or disprove anything with any facts, anything being said on that thread. My personal opinion.
There is just more bad then good about the wind farms if you just look at the whole picture rather then what you are told to look at.
I hope, I have answered your question sufficiently.
I would love to have a small wind generator on my little bitty farm, that would be terrific. But, I am not a foreign country's company that can get taxpayers money from the federal government to pay for it.
And I can't get any of the special tax breaks they get.
Ross,
You appear to be saying in part of your above post that EK isn't interested in or considering doing anything to lower taxes there in Elk County. Checking back to the link provided (which is your initial post in the whole discussion of EK's presentation to the county commissioners), lowering taxes was the item receiving the most consideration and was the top item in their category of "Fiscal", which they also had at the top of the list of recommendations. If I am misreading that initial post, please let me know.
Quote from: ddurbin on November 10, 2011, 08:33:55 AM
Ross,
You appear to be saying in part of your above post that EK isn't interested in or considering doing anything to lower taxes there in Elk County. Checking back to the link provided (which is your initial post in the whole discussion of EK's presentation to the county commissioners), lowering taxes was the item receiving the most consideration and was the top item in their category of "Fiscal", which they also had at the top of the list of recommendations. If I am misreading that initial post, please let me know.
Okay I goofed, I make errors because I am human.
So ya all can withdraw your statement that Ros is always right.
However, I was there when the Elk Konnected, County Commissioner Liz Hendricks (Perkins) told the lady at the Red Hat Meeting that te money needed to be spent on somethimg that will last other then lowering taxes.
But pardon my plunder and it's great to hear from an Elk Konnected member.
Have a great day.
Ross,
Don't get excited just yet. As I have mentioned previously, I am not associated with Elk Konnected in any way. I have never attended any of their meetings or functions, or contributed to any of their efforts monetarily or by service. I am not saying that I oppose them necessarily, just that I am more neutral where they are concerned. I'm just trying to see the facts from both sides to get an accurate view of the whole big picture.
It doesn't seem possible that anyone, except a liberal, socialist or communist, can be neutral (or favor) about the Elk Konnected.
Why not try to see the whole picture of the founding fathers and the U S Constitution intead of looking for answers from some non-governmental, non-profit organization that hides itself?
Do you really have a string that someone pulls to make you speak a prerecorded message?
Only socialists,communists or liberals can speak positively about Elk Konnected efforts? Sez who? You of all people? That is so sad.
Sure, and only people with brown eyes and O-negative blood types are true American patriots. All others are tainted and plan to take over "your " country.
Fortunately, small minded people who have to spew anger and ''diss'' and label others negatively to have stability themselves are easy to ignore and sweep aside as not worth the bother. It is fun to laugh at them, makes 'em furious.
Diane,
Now, now.
I do believe Mr. Sweden has defended Ek on the other thread, but I'd have to go back and verify that.
And I don't have time right now to do that.
But neutral I don't think so.
Again I could be wrong.
But actually this is a local thing about a privatly owned company that runs around blowing it's own horn and after engaging in a conversation backs out when it's proven they are basically lying by twisting words and has voted themselves money from the County coffers. They use the excuse for not continuing to talk with us that the conversation is too negative. Well, the negative is in what they claim as far as I see it or they would be able to make it a positive thing. Yea, with all their positive attitude that should be easy for them.
That's like the positive attitude and failing at running a Wellness center. And I wonder if that is the same thing happening with their $150 a team for a baseball tournament? Don't they realize baseball season is over and that the holiday season has begun?
And they have positively told us of nothing they have actually done to better the living conditions in Elk County except to collect $85,000. So you try to figure it out and let me know what is happening. Why did they actually go back into hiding?