http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxc6kzH-uI
LOL ;D Hey, Diane...What is YOUR opinion on this? ::)
quote from catwoman:
LOL Hey, Diane...What is YOUR opinion on this?
Yes Diane, go head and give your opinion then step back and watch the "jumping start" You know Diane, you and me don't see eye to eye on a lot of things but I think you are intelligent but sometimes too trusting. Can't you see what is happening ? Can't you see someone is "yanking your chain "? Being your cheerleader and for what ? So someone can have "fun" for a slow part of the day?
Yes, my "chain can be yanked" too before but I think yours is getting yanked more often than mine. I aint saying this trying to be a butt head---just think about it and maybe go back and re-read some past posts and see the pattern.
quote from catwoman
Debating its finer points is a bore.
Now...This has been a "fun" way to use up a slow portion of the day
quote from catwoman:
I shouldn't be so ornery...It is just that it is so much fun to yank a few chains and watch the jumping start...It's not fair to do it to them, I know. They are so in earnest...And I'm sittin' back, grinning. God's gonna get me yet! lol
Shame on me...
Jar, you can attempt to stir the turds in that punchbowl...Go right ahead...But Diane and I happen to know each other better than you are aware. She's not so slow-witted that she'd presume that I'm referring to her... ;D
Quote from: Catwoman on August 28, 2011, 06:05:11 PM
Jar, you can attempt to stir the turds in that punchbowl...Go right ahead...But Diane and I happen to know each other better than you are aware. She's not so slow-witted that she'd presume that I'm referring to her... ;D
Certainly appears he has at one punchbowl occupant stirred up. LOL
;) Well, Patriot, it takes a turd to recognize a turd...And yes...I'll move over and give you a bit more room...!! ;D
Quote from: Catwoman on August 28, 2011, 06:28:17 PM
;) Well, Patriot, it takes a turd to recognize a turd...And yes...I'll move over and give you a bit more room...!! ;D
Such a lady. And you educate children, right?
What's the matter, Patsy? Bothered that there is someone FINALLY who won't back down to your brand of bullying? I really feel for your family...Do you kiss them with that mouth?
Quote from: Catwoman on August 28, 2011, 06:41:17 PM
What's the matter, Patsy? Bothered that there is someone FINALLY who won't back down to your brand of bullying? I really feel for your family...Do you kiss them with that mouth?
Gee... you're right. That chain pulling thing is a riot! So, tell us about the balance it takes to keep your rants under control in the classroom... has it become easier since you moved to town? Yank, yank.
You know, I never used to respond to anyone in this manner...Yes, I'd bite my tongue and maintan acting in a ladylike manner. But there is a marked lack of gentlemanly behavior on this Forum anymore. All acting like a lady gets you is a bunch of insults, poor attempts at innuendo and twisted words (or lies of omission). Since Ross, Patriot and Red have begun to be the ring leaders on this Forum, there has been a degeneration of behavior. Frank, you are exactly correct in that. I feel sorry for this Forum, to be blunt...It used to be a fun place...Filled with people who were supportive of each other, who might let out with a few sharp comments but NOTHING like the "white trash talking" that has been occurring in the past year here.
I quit being silent when the howling baboons began holding their congress...And haven't regretted doing so...I am sick and tired of the bullies holding sway over the more decent folks on this Forum.
As far as my classroom goes...No one...And I repeat NO ONE...Is allowed to act in the repugnant manner that Patriot, Red and Ross do...My men are expected to deport themselves as gentlemen and my girls are expected to deport themselves as ladies. There are no rants allowed in my world. Period. And NO ONE is allowed to dominate the conversation, bullying others by beating down everything they say. My classroom is a calm, inspiring place where the very traits that USED TO EXIST ON THIS FORUM are utilized...Open discussion of thoughts and ideas, with NO ONE BEING ALLOWED TO BE A BULLY.
So, Patriot...You can go rot in the same mud that you sling on everyone else.
Actually cat, no one is forcing anyone to read the threads that are posted. :) you can like a parent with a tv in the home, turn the channel when the content is not appropriate enough for you! Shrug.
The whole forum isn't affected at all.
Steve, up to about three weeks ago, I would have agreed with you. The ugliness was pretty much contained to the Politics section...But then, the Coffee Shop got invaded by the bad actors...And briefly, there appeared to be an attempt to bring that brand of ugliness over from the Politics section. I was extremely relieved to see that the group in question ceased their activities and left the Coffee Shop, for the most part. There is enough ugliness on the Politics section...It isn't needed elsewhere on the Forum.
Well, perhaps a politics forum in the toughest economic times since the depression, as prices increase and wages stagnate in a country losing its once unassailable & envied world status being 'led' by people of questionable social/political philosophies isn't the best place to have 'fun'. Serious times tend to bring out serious people. There are surely dozens of other forums and threads here that are better suited for idle banter and fun times. It seems many folk have no problems not engaging in politics, yet are active members of the Elk County Forum. Just a thought.
OK, all you people with short attention spans ,this is long. You were warned! When someone wants to bash classroom teachers, who are already usually underpaid for the amount of education they have to have to even apply for the job, this thing finds it's way on here.( Student loans anyone?) I've seen it on here at least once before I think, and on another forum also. No surprise that it is inaccurate in many ways. They should go back and see why teachers were unionized in the first place.
Now, there is no such thing as a teacher who can't be fired, tenure or not. That's an old husbands tale or urban legend or something, but it is always brought up when someone wants to stick it to teachers. It is about money, always about money. Because teachers are salaried, not hourly, there is no such thing as overtime, so comp. time, sometimes called "vacation," is given ( Ya can't teach when school isn't open!) At the same time, we are "on call" for meetings, workshops, retraining, additional training, parent conferences and the like after school hours. Then there is the planning and paper work and checking of papers that is always done and kids folders to be kept up. One works until the job is done. Of course we know it comes with the job. But does every career require it? Some do the equivalent, but at a hugely larger salary!
It used to be that female teachers were paid less than male teachers for doing exactly the same job, but that isn't much of a problem any longer.
I can't speak for all states, but many have con. ed requirements that keep teachers going for additional degrees in order to keep the job. It's not unexpected.
Teaching, like being a nurse, doctor, lawyer, or pharmacist is considered to be a profession, not just a job, least of all unskilled labor. Consequently the expectations are different and the person has more value.
As for the "it's for the children" bit. In what other profession is a person expected to put part of their paycheck each month back into their job? Some "treats" are given freely of course, but being expected to pay for kids lunches, pencils, extra project supplies and the things that make a teaching unit work is extortion, but teachers do it ....for the kids. Teachers are the ultimate scroungers; they have to be. Teachers can make things for units with almost nothing, and do...for the kids.
Is teaching perfect ? Nope. Grumpy and sick kids and raging parents take a toll. But it comes with the territory.
Yes, teachers know they work for the tax payer just like other Gov't workers. We sure are reminded often enough. Now if teachers were forgiven their taxes, complainers might have a gripe, but teachers pay taxes too! I worked it out one time years ago. I figured out my actual hours and the taxes I paid, against my salary, and I was shocked at how little it was. And I didn't have any student loans to pay!
Yes, there are teachers who aren't good at it. Usually they are picked up by the teacher supervisor who, at least here, comes in several time a year, unannounced, to see a teacher at work. Lesson plans are examined, presentations are seen and then evaluations are written. The teacher who needs it may be assigned remedial training by the supervisor or someone else and then the teacher is given a copy of the evaluation and a copy goes in the teacher's file. If a weak spot is again found, the same thing happens. In some cases, no improvement, no more more job. In others, the teacher is called to a meeting with the principal to see what is going on, especially with a tenured teacher. Sometimes they are told to take another college course in the weak area. If that doesn't solve the problem, they go.
OK Cat...That's a silly little political piece meant to hurt teachers. Really a nice way to start a new school year. Most intelligent people will see right through it.
Can we find a few more that can do the same for other occupations? How about road workers, mail carriers, truck drivers, septic tank cleaners, sewer workers, store sales people and farmers? ;D
Yes, I know my chain is being yanked, but it also gives people a chance to see the other totally negative, mean, untrustworthy personalities a few of these people are harboring inside what appears to be a nice sweet exterior. Sure it's easy to pick on me, but why do just because one can? Personality defect?
Quote from: Catwoman on August 28, 2011, 07:05:31 PM
There is enough ugliness on the Politics section...It isn't needed elsewhere on the Forum.
On that point we can agree. Or perhaps we need a Too Hot To Handle or Caveat Emptor topic.
That might be a good idea, Patriot. And yes...You just witness Hell freezing over...Send Satan a parka...
And, Diane...I knew you'd see through that video. ::)
Diane... I make a distinction between teachers and the unions who claim to represent them. Good, capable teachers are a godsend. Their unions however are all to often thinly disguised, agenda driven political action committees. And those agendas are seldom only about teachers pay & working conditions. Those agendas are all too often about social engineering. And that's out of line, IMO.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 28, 2011, 07:11:47 PM
That might be a good idea, Patriot. And yes...You just witness Hell freezing over...Send Satan a parka...
Thanks. Though the first half of your response would have sufficed.
;D
QuoteAs for the "it's for the children" bit. In what other profession is a person expected to put part of their paycheck each month back into their job? Some "treats" are given freely of course, but being expected to pay for kids lunches, pencils, extra project supplies and the things that make a teaching unit work is extortion, but teachers do it ....for the kids. Teachers are the ultimate scroungers; they have to be. Teachers can make things for units with almost nothing, and do...for the kids.
No one expects teachers to do this! WHy is a teacher buying lunch? the lunch is free most of the time and IF the student doesn't qualify for free, then where did they spend their lunch money. (Candy store maybe?) Soda and chip machines? Thats not your or my problem. That is the kids problem if they make such a bad choice. IF Their parents don't give em lunch money, then make a lunch to bring with them. OBVIOUSLY they have food at the house!
Again, what yall are doing by using your money to do this, is enabling sorry ass parents or kids who make poor choices to keep on doing what they are doing. The children won't starve without a lunch. I promise! I do quite well without a lunch even today. On those kids that supposedly don't have food at home, thats why they get free lunchs cause they don't have food at home.
IF any kid comes to school more than 2 times without money, then i would be calling their parents finding out if they sent them to school with money or a lunch. I sure wouldn't be financing anyones lunch's or supplies.
And that would be the reason you're not an educator, Steve. Kids are totally at the mercy of the adults around them. When the parents in question are spending their money on booze, cigarettes, or other vices, instead of buying the children food, clothing, or school supplies, then someone has to step up and help the kids...Period. The kiddos have a need for at least a basic amount of care...When the parents can't or won't do it...The the school/the teacher step up. Is it right that the teacher should have to do that? No. But if the teacher is worth their salt, they're doing it anyway. That's just the way teaching goes. Up to the point where I took my present position, I always worked for poorer systems and regularly put in around 3k a year into my room, due to the school's inability to give me a workable stipend that would cover the extras that made my curriculum come alive for the kids. Now, I teach for a large system that can afford to give me a workable stipend and I am not having to put as much in to make my room do what it should for the kids.
Ah, come on guys... teachers are people, too. Here is a good example of
what the normal teacher goes through on a daily basis:
OMG...LOL...It looks like someone who actually taught was the one who made that cartoon!!! lol Thanks for this, Warph...Loved it!!! ;D ;D
Yup! Thanks.
Mail carriers may not be required to go to "classes" but we have training talks every day. We are always being told new things and new expectations and do have several training sessions throughout the year. It is, after all, an everchanging world out there! And yes, we do have to pay for a lot of thing out of pocket, such as uniforms and other things for work, plus some of us do carry dog treats and candy in our bags, that we pay for.
In fact, I believe that a lot of people will tell you that they pay for a lot of things out of their own pocket, no matter what job they do. Just my opinion ---- Jennifer
I can believe you carry dog treats! lol...I wouldn't want your job, Jennifer...Having done loads of home visits, I can attest to the family dog(s) being a scary prospect.
Well, we aren't supposed to...but sometimes it makes it a lot easier...along with the pepper spray to spray those dogs with and some of the guys even carry rocks or bricks in their's to bean those poor dogs upside the head if they come at them! It's a fun job actually and I've made friends with lots of dogs and have even had a few that would walk with me on loops like they were being protective. I wouldn't trade my job for anything, except maybe winning the lottery so I didn't have to work in the winter! lol
This post is probably a little long but here goes. I have read about the problems of the Teacher Unions in the urban areas of some of our larger cities... more problems than solutions.... which led me to think about the blacks of the urban slums. What are the T.U.'s doing about the race problems in our schools today. It's a little more complicated here in AZ, I think, with hispanic children who speak very little english.... but that's another story.
Let us Imagine a black school-kid of sixteen in, lets say, Detroit. He can't read or, if he can, it's barely. He has never read a book, and never will. He doesn't know where England is, or Africa, or different States of the U.S. His mental world is small beyond the imagining of the literate. He has no grasp of government, and has never heard of any author. He cannot do simple arithmetic. He has perhaps never seen a checkbook, and will never have one. He doesn't watch the news. If he did, he would not understand what he was seeing. Ideas like the stockmarket, exchange rate, and United Nations are utterly beyond him.
I am not being cruel. I am describing a condition, the normal, usual, unexceptional condition of American blacks going to school in large urban slums.
Of history, the kid knows only that blacks were enslaved by whites. He cannot approximate the dates of the Civil War.... as neither, astoundingly, can many white "college graduates"... and cannot name a single country in Africa, but he knows that blacks were stolen from their homes and very badly treated.
He has in all likelihood never been out of Detroit, or perhaps his neighborhood. He has no contact with the larger society except through the police and television, where he sees whites leading glamorous lives in a wide world beyond his grasp. He would be very uncomfortable in a small town in white America, having less familiarity with the culture that would an American in a small town in Italy. Further, he speaks something so far from standard English that he would have difficulty talking to most whites.
He doesn't have a part-job after school or, if he does, it will be of a very low level with no future that he can see. There is a reason why cash-register keys in fast-food chutes have pictures of hamburgers and milk shakes instead of words, why the registers make change automatically. The kid in Detroit can't make change. Little commercial demand exists for the illiterate and innumerate who have very bad attitudes.
Which the kid has. He hates whites, whom he blames for all of his troubles and inadequacies. He hates Asians, who excel in school. It is an ugly hatred on a hair trigger and explodes readily in savage violence. The media play this down, hard, but what you pretend doesn't exist..... still does.
The school-kid from Detroit has no loyalty at all to the United States. Why would he? It is a white country, and he hates whites. He doesn't know who fought in World War Two, or when it took place, but he knows that whites enslaved blacks, and that he is on the bottom of things. He blames whites. "Country" is too large an abstraction for him.
Now, intellectuals and quasis of the salon classes, few of whom have the slightest familiarity with kids from Detroit, prattle of oppression and opportunity and social this and social that, and blame blacks, or whites, or God, or sunspots... but chiefly, each other.
Racial discourse in America usually consists of liberals and conservatives battling each other, neither having much interest in blacks. Both offer solutions of which the kid is perfectly incapable. Liberals believe that with enough federal uplift and and warm-and-fuzziness he will have better self-esteem and begin to study and prosper... which for a variety of reasons he hasn't, isn't, and won't. Conservatives think that if he only worked hard and read the Founding Fathers, he would rise like Rockefeller, which he can't and won't.
I think of the riots that we have then in England and the US that are large concentrations of young black people... most school age kids.... who do not share the values of Caucasian civilization. This matters. I always thought society's accepted values, not its laws, determine its behavior. When the tidal waves wrecked Japan, how many mobs of looters attacked the unguarded shopping centers? For the mathematically advanced reader, I will offer a hint: It is a non-negative integer less than one. Years back, I wandered the side streets of Tokyo after midnight, without fear, and saw dating couples doing the same thing. The Japanese do not refrain from violent criminality because the police watch them, but because they agree that they do not want a violently criminal society. They haven't time for that kind of crap. They are too busy working and talking care of their familys and elders.
Charles Krauthamer's comment: "The blacks of the festering, simmering slums clearly do not share the values of European whites, and will loot when they can get away with it. I might also if I saw the surrounding country as my enemy. The difference between the looting in England and that in the US seems to be that in London it was more a matter of stealing electronics, whereas in the US it involves much more of racial hatred. Where does this lead? What do we do? The approach both tacitly accepted and firmly enforced has been one of bread and circuses, or rather welfare and television, to keep the lid on in the "inner city," as we say; this, accompanied by heavy pressure from government and salon not to notice what is happening. It was perhaps the best response.... best for whites, anyway. It left the slums hopeless, depraved, but quiescent. Affirmative action kept the pressure down, and smart, ambitious blacks were admitted in small numbers to the salons and became superstars, like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. This kept them from becoming real revolutionaries. The blacks of the slums stayed chiefly in the slums and, while welfare produced a terrible dependency, all of these measures ensured a static, artificial calm."
But now bankruptcy looms, and Congress threatens to cut social spending to pay for the wars. There is no longer enough money in a divided nation to buy everyone off. Whites will not revolt, not violently, but blacks will. I don't think the faculty lounges understand how much anger there is among whites. I'm sorry, Al Sharpeton, but it is not just twelve louts in the KKK and a few militias in Idaho that are very pissed at blacks. It is pretty much the blue-collar world, the cops, the firemen, and most (I really think) a whole lot of journalists who keep their mouths carefully shut.
This is not good. Not good at all. Cat and Diane, looking at this with a Teachers' perspective on the Kid from Detroit.... WHAT IS THE ANSWER?
.....Warph
Good post Warph, what do you think the answer might be?
This is a great posting. No, I do not have answers......but, am looking forward to reading others oppions. forgive if I mispelled that....but sue me, I am still learning the game. LOL
DAmn warph you hit the nail on the head! That is how it is! I grew up around Atlanta which is mostly black. If your white and you go into Atlanta you had better carry at least a handgun, most preferably a shotgun with 00 buck in it.
Its divided up into mostly black, with a large Asian gang and a large Hispanic gang all vying for the territory they carve out. They protect it fiercely and woe be to the poor individual that happens to wander into their turf.
It used to be that you could walk peach tree street at night without fear of anything, now you had better be off the streets by 3pm or else you are a target of that anger you speak of.
And while i disagree that the whites will not revolt, i think they are waiting for the right time. Don't count them as passive if the blacks rise up and start destroying everything. You can bet that if the destruction spills outside of the 285 ring, there will be a war. The line will be the interstate and the battle will take place inside of it.
It is a cauldron of hate. I remember back in 1980 when the black kids were murdered, the entire area was a powder keg waiting to blow. the blacks were blaming whites for the murders, and it was not safe to even work a job. My sister was working at age 16 at a kfc in a white area and was held up by a bunch of black youth with shotguns. Luckily she did what we have always said to give them everything they want but do not go with them or get out in the customer area. she was saved from that one. BUT not everyone was so lucky, many folks were killed (whites) at gas stations and other places by blacks taking out revenge on them. Come to find out, it was a black that was killing the black kids. Wayne Williams. I don't know if it was him on all of them but he was pinned with all of them. I suspect some of them were stuck on him to calm everyone down. I remember everyone packing firearms back then, cause you didn't know if and when you were going to be a target.
This was reminiscent of the Detroit riots. That was bad. My aunt had a house up there back then, bought it for 2000 dollars in the 50's and sold it eventually for 500 dollars in the 70's.
The opportunities are there for the youths, but for some reason they don't take them. I think ole Bill Cosby said it best. Stop coddling them and start making them be responsible and it is the black parents and leaders that need to do it. He also said the white folks are getting tired of this crap and will not tolerate it much longer.
Blacks and whites are both taught the same ole stuff so Warph what you're saying is clear to me.
Since the War For Southern Independence, they've been taught the Federal policy to promote
the Federal agenda. Reconstruction turned a lot of nice blacks and whites against each other and
it's still going on today with neither side, including the blacks and whites, knowing the truths of the War
or our founding fathers.
The teachers were taught the same things when they were in school. Is it any great surpirse that a teacher
calls some of us "looney" on this forum? It doesn't bother me one bit however it actually represents the level
of thinking in this country which is becoming more and more socialist every day.
Here it comes, another long one, beware!
KS, I was not swatting you. Many uniformed employees pay for their uniforms, (tax deductible,) and many, not all, police officers get uniform allowances above and beyond their pay.
Jobs are what they are. Many do have in service classes. I taught a lot them in fire safety, evacuation, fire extinguishers and CPR, but it was at their job, on their shift, for their convenience. I sometimes started at 11:00 pm for a night shift. For others they would wait for their day shift and then I'd come in.
My point was, I've never seen a mean cartoon dissing plumbers or electricians or builders, most of whom do buy their own tools. For some reason it has become fashionable to not support teachers,( not always of course,) but in general, to blame them for the worlds ills. It feels like if one's life sucks, blame a teacher. How about a mean cartoon attacking dentists? ;)
Everybody is touched by many teachers during their education, mostly good, some exemplary and an occasional total mismatch.
In the really big cities there are very serious problems to be sure.It is a totally different world. Education is not a priority with many people, many students, many races and many cultures in certain areas, not all. Everybody knows where the tough areas are. They are becoming forgotten, forbidden areas that even the police hate to go into. The toughs think violence, not education is the answer to everything and even accept that they won't live long lives. Bullet scars are badges of honor. Even the kids who "get it" and try to get an education have a very hard time. Many are from working poor families who can't afford to move, or are in the drug and alcohol culture who are seen as "throw away" kids by people who have lived street lives for generations. If they are still in school at 16, it's so they can continue what ever revenge they think they owe someone for last night's shooting or dissing of their "cousin". They are out on the streets all night, and if they go to school at all, they sleep through their so called classes. Teachers have been attacked for waking them up.
The community wants them in school and off the street and the school wants them anywhere but there.
Truancy is a huge problem. The best teacher can't teach an absent student. Some schools are trying to catch potential troubled kids and troublemakers, mostly from family history and segregate them totally away elsewhere in the building. A mini juvy in each school. But that is called tracking and is frowned on.
Some schools are trying the opposite. The potential real students, who have poor but caring parents ,usually parent, are segregated from the rest of the school population. Essentially a Charter School within the same walls. Some are finding sponsors in the business world. I surely don't have any absolute answers. Many say "throw money at" it, but it rarely helps. Occasionally top potential students are rescued and sent off to "choice" schools Perhaps a wealthy person promises an education to a whole class that turns themselves around and that has had some success. But next year there will be another set of kids entering the system and it starts all over again. I'm not sure why the unions seem to be failing so badly. Are they really? Things must have changed a lot.
As far as education in general, it will change. Already kids are fighting back.They just don't see the relevancy in memorizing the names of all the counties in Africa when they know, if needed, they can look it up in a split second. It doesn't matter to them how the information got there. It's getting hard to teach critical thinking when the kids just don't see a need for it. They want to learn what's "relevant" to the world THEY are living in,and then in little sound bites. Doing something for the sake of learning how to learn is getting tough too.( Don't teach me math tables, teach me how to push the buttons.) Teaching how to use the computer will replace social studies, science and probably some other subjects. Even talking will be a special skill learned by teachers and lawyers. ;D
On a different note, RED! Did even this thread have to be steered to the Civil War? Can you prove what I was taught about the Civil War? HOW do you know what I know about reconstruction and segregation? We had teachers from the south as well as from around here.The one Superintendent was from Morgantown West Virginia and went back there to recruit teachers every year. You sell a lot of us short by regurgitating as much misinformation that you wanted to believe, as you accuse all of us of. (That's a badly constructed sentence!)
Warph, that was a very nice piece. I enjoyed it very much.You do know we're old now. The world isn't ours any more. The next generation is pushing us out to sea on an iceberg. ;D ;D ;D
Madea is the answer ;)
Now, dat dere is funny, dat is!
I've seen the revisionist history even being taught in the south there diane. Most of what is taught in schools is so far out of whack that it nowhere resembles the truth.
Like i've said before, the war was bout states rights not slavery but every teacher in the us will teach it was about slavery. Thats because its politically expedient to do so. The truth is irrelevant but the facts are those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. NOW we are seeing a repeat forming!
States are rallying against the feds once again and you may see another civil war if the feds don't start backing off.
Sadly the truth about the civil war will one day be suppressed mostly by the teaching of the revised version. Eventually the ones who know the truth will die off and very few will be left to correct the lies. Eventually they will probably write it that the Confederacy never was. IF they can erase that part of history they can then dismantle the constitution entirely. Until then, there is proof and a record that the constitution was altered in 1861 and that it has been attacked ever since.
Sorry S. but we were taught a very balanced history, including the states rights issue ,the politics behind it all ,including the secession issues, slavery of course, but from both sides, the economics of it all, the pros and cons of Lincoln, the carpet baggers and the effects of that, the whole reconstruction era and even had debates about it all, with people being assigned subjects and sides to defend. We did research papers about both sides from a list of topics. I even took some those 1911 history books I have to class and read from them. Ye we knew there were slaves who fought for the south willingly and some who were taken by their owners,unwillingly,to help load rifles and such and some who rebelled and some who escaped. We also learned about the soldiers who just pulled out and went home to plant their crops to still support their families....on both sides! There was plenty of wrong done on both sides but the winner gets to write the history. That's why wars are terrible.
Reliving it as if the outcome will ever be different to,my way of thinking is unhealthy. Unfair, sure but it is what it is. When I read about how some on both sides pulled out to go plant their crops, it shows how ordinary most really were. ,with very few ever owning slaves. To spend brain power getting all fussed up over flags and license plates is a waste and whether they are colored ,black, people of color or African Americans, which some blacks are not, is a waste of time.( If it comes up I'll call them whatever they want to be called.) Then again I'm white, so I can't think like they do and can't imagine a family history of children being taken from parents, poor diets and inhumane treatment that did happen to some, not nearly all.
BUT, humans owning humans is just wrong, no matter who, when, or why. I hate it, always will, and nobody will ever be able to justify that to me no matter how far back in history we go.
Again i repeat those who ignore history (the real history) are doomed to repeat it! We see it happening today with the holocaust. There are a great number that are trying to rewrite history to say it never happened.
I hear that too. But we know better don't we. There are still many people alive who can tell their stories. Denying it doesn't change it. It's really hard on the Catholic Poles, and others who had family members killed, but they are rarely mentioned.
There has been some great thoughts and comments on this thread that Red started. Kudo's Red. And Diane... you're right and that iceberg gets smaller every day... huh?
Got this from an old classmate of mine this afternoon:
Warph, you old fool. Slappy sent me your email on the black situation in the urban slums. Your email had a number of very salient observations about the state of American black culture today. Now I've known you for - what? - 45 years now, ever since college. You never cease to surprise me. I sometimes think you are blacker than that old coot buddy of years.
Please allow me to make a couple of observations that come from experience. I believe your description of the inner city black is accurate to a point. I also believe that your observations can and should also be applied to the Muslim and Hispanic populations in our country today. None of those cultures are capable of or willing to assimilate themselves into "the great melting pot" that has always been America.
I am in my late sixties and grew up in the inner city of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Some of your observations in your email so troubled me that I called my [much older] sister and read parts of your email to her and asked her if she had observed this simmering hatred while we were growing up. She thought a long time and finally said no, not when we were growing up but she does see it now in the young blacks and muslims.
When we were growing up we were the definite minority in our schools and because of this we played in the homes of our black friends and they came to our house to play. There was no "racial tension" in the classroom or in the school. We were ALL there to learn, we knew what the rules were and if we were disciplined at school for breaking any of those rules we were double disciplined when we got home. There was NONE of the "my child wouldn't do that" or "you can't discipline my child". We were all in the same boat. We were all there to learn and our job was to work hard, get an education and work our way out of those neighborhoods.
Each black family had two parents. I only knew one child of divorce while I was going to school and she was the daughter of a white female liberal that flaunted the rules of that society. The black fathers in each of those families would never have sat still in the face of an impending Category 4 or 5 hurricane, as was the case in New Orleans before the arrival of Katrina waiting for help from the government. Those black fathers would have packed up their families, in a heartbeat, and gotten them to safety without any help from the government, churches or charities. In those black families it was as much of a shame for a girl to be "in a family way" outside of marriage as it was for a white family. Those girls were whisked off to Atlanta or Chicago or Miami for a year of school and they would return a year later childless with a little thicker waistline and a whole new attitude.
It wasn't until "The Great Society" and the "War on Poverty" and Lyndon Johnson that the black family began to fall apart. The old adage is "The road to hell is paved in good intentions" and I believe that the liberals that designed the welfare programs were well intentioned but WRONG. Rules are meant to be broken and programs are designed for people to capitalize on the weak points and misapply them to their advantage. This is what I saw happen with the black families when the father moved out, stayed down the street and only came by for conjugal visits which increased the family's income. The black father and young men were no longer hard working heads of the their families but part of disjointed groups that were intent on personal gratification and working the system and they developed a "plantation mentality" with the government being the great provider and not the men of the family.
When "Motor Voter" came in I was [involved] in our county and I immediately saw that we had succeeded in breaking down the black family and that now the government was intent on breaking down the white family. We had as many voter applications coming in from "social service" agencies for unmarried single parent, young white women as we got from minority applicants in the same boat. These fatherless families cannot teach a young boy how to be a man – just as a single father cannot teach his daughter the niceties of being a cultured young lady.
Like you, Warph I have been able to walk the streets, not of Japan, but of Washington, D.C., Atlanta, Georgia, Pittsburgh, and many other American cities late at night either alone or with a companion without concern for my safety. Jesse Jackson said some fifteen years ago that he was relieved to find that the footsteps behind him in a major American city were those of a white man. This problem wasn't born. It was made.
Now, when are you coming to D.C. to see me? Tell your lovely wife I said hi and don't bring that old coot Slappy when you come. He eats to much!
Erita Stone.
Warph...May I just tell you this. Your posts and the post from your friend, brings good sense to this forum, and for some reason, a comfort to my mind.
Common sense, and words of knowledge is a welcome read.
Blessings to you and yours.
Jo
Quote from: Catwoman on August 28, 2011, 07:45:12 PM
And that would be the reason you're not an educator, Steve. Kids are totally at the mercy of the adults around them. When the parents in question are spending their money on booze, cigarettes, or other vices, instead of buying the children food, clothing, or school supplies, then someone has to step up and help the kids...Period. The kiddos have a need for at least a basic amount of care...When the parents can't or won't do it...The the school/the teacher step up. Is it right that the teacher should have to do that? No. But if the teacher is worth their salt, they're doing it anyway. That's just the way teaching goes. Up to the point where I took my present position, I always worked for poorer systems and regularly put in around 3k a year into my room, due to the school's inability to give me a workable stipend that would cover the extras that made my curriculum come alive for the kids. Now, I teach for a large system that can afford to give me a workable stipend and I am not having to put as much in to make my room do what it should for the kids.
It appears to me that teachers and administrative want to be more parent than teacher. If children are doing without food, clothing, or school supplies and parents are doing booze, cigarettes, or other vices then the teacher maybe allowing other types of abuses to these children. The teacher should be reporting the situation to the administrative personell and return to teaching instead of mothering. Perhaps the family needs help from welfare or child protective services and therefore by not reporting it to the admistration may be enabling or adding to the problems the family may have. Are teachers social workers of are they teachers. I believe there is a professional difference.
The TEACHER is allowing these abuses? OMG...You moron.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 06:57:50 PM
The TEACHER is allowing these abuses? OMG...You moron.
Base name calling? From a self restrained professional such as yourself? Shocking indeed. Surely you must have been goaded into it.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 06:57:50 PM
The TEACHER is allowing these abuses? OMG...You moron.
Me the moron, you don't read so good do you?
Try reading again?
Quote from: Ross on August 30, 2011, 06:44:51 PM
Perhaps the family needs help from welfare or child protective services and therefore by not reporting it to the admistration may be enabling or adding to the problems the family may have. Appears to me that teachers and administrative want to be more parent than teacher. If children are doing without food, clothing, or school supplies and parents are doing booze, cigarettes, or other vices then the teacher maybe allowing other types of abuses to these children. The teacher should be reporting the situation to the administrative personell and return to teaching instead of mothering. Perhaps the family needs help from welfare or child protective services and therefore by not reporting it to the admistration may be enabling or adding to the problems the family may have. Are teachers social workers of are they teachers. I believe there is a professional difference.
Quote from: Ross on August 30, 2011, 06:44:51 PM
Perhaps the family needs help from welfare or child protective services and therefore by not reporting it to the admistration may be enabling or adding to the problems the family may have.
You may be adding to the problems in the childs life by trying to play parent to the child instead of reporting problems to the administrators, who might report the problems to the proper authorities, where upon the family might get the proper help that they need. Leave social work to the social workers and the teaching to the teachers. There is a big difference.
But I won't call you a moron.
Patriot...I knew it was too good to last...So, the bell has rung and we're back in our respective corners? Go look in a mirror if you've the mind to argue at the moment...I'm not interested. Rosco, there is no way that any educator can add to the problems that a child has. The only thing the educator does is try to soften the blows that rain down in steady progression on some of these kids. If that doesn't match up to what you armchair quarterbacks/Superintendents think should be happening, then I take it that what I'm doing is spot-on...If YOU don't like it, it must be the right thing to do!
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:26:32 PM
Patriot...I knew it was too good to last...So, the bell has rung and we're back in our respective corners? Go look in a mirror if you've the mind to argue at the moment...I'm not interested. Rosco, there is no way that any educator can add to the problems that a child has. The only thing the educator does is try to soften the blows that rain down in steady progression on some of these kids. If that doesn't match up to what you armchair quarterbacks/Superintendents think should be happening, then I take it that what I'm doing is spot-on...If YOU don't like it, it must be the right thing to do!
There in lies the problem, you are not a social worker, not your job.
Administration should handle problems children may have and report to the proper authorities.
You should be teaching not pretending to be administration.
You should be teaching not mothering.
There is a difference, recognize the differences.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:26:32 PM
...there is no way that any educator can add to the problems that a child has.
Like those 'educators' we read about who engage in illicit sex with their underage students? Or those who ignore such acts going on around them? Or perhaps those who allow some students to molest others as they turn a blind eye? The title of 'educator' provides NO promise of protection to our young. Nothing in that title guarantees ethics or moral standard. I would think an 'educator' would realize that.
Patriot, whichever teacher it is that ruined your educational experiences ought to be shot. You have a massive chip on your shoulder when it comes to educators and education in general. I feel for you, Patriot. It's too bad that you didn't have at least one or two really distinguished teachers...Because you've lost out completely on what a fabulous educator brings to the life of the students that he/she teaches. Yes, there are bad apples in the teaching field...Just as there are in the clergy, just as there are in the judicial system, just as there are on this Forum. However, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, Patriot. YOU should realize that.
Hey, guys -
Why don't you sit in a couple of classrooms and see what our local teachers are doing and not doing. See what's going on with the students. Observers are usually allowed, after they clear it with the office.
That's an excellent suggestion, Gentlemen...Go check out what happens in a modern-day classroom that is run by a truly good classroom educator...West Elk has many that fit this description...Try going into one of the elementary rooms...I dare ya...I guarantee, today's education doesn't bear any resemblence to what you old coots experienced.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:26:32 PM
Go look in a mirror if you've the mind to argue at the moment...I'm not interested.
So we see.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:43:14 PM
However, you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater, Patriot. YOU should realize that.
It was I who just made that point, I believe, in retort to your 'educators never' stereotype. I definitely realize it.
Uh... there's some bathwater dripping from your shoes. :)
Nice retort...Now...Are you going to go sit in an elementary classroom and see what REALLY happens in the world of education?
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:49:46 PM
That's an excellent suggestion, Gentlemen...Go check out what happens in a modern-day classroom that is run by a truly good classroom educator...West Elk has many that fit this description...Try going into one of the elementary rooms...I dare ya...I guarantee, today's education doesn't bear any resemblence to what you old coots experienced.
Old coots. Hmmm. Another expression of your superior intellect and education? Oh... it's resemblance, not resemblence.
You used to teach out this way, didn't you? I would think auditing one of your classes would be an experience.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:56:19 PM
Nice retort...Now...Are you going to go sit in an elementary classroom and see what REALLY happens in the world of education?
Is this the rotating retort segment?
No, I'm not. The reason would be that this little dialogue was about your overreaching statement inferring that educators 'never' err when it comes to child welfare. It was not about my experience with modern elementary classroom formats or education in general.
I (and I suspect most adults outside the cocoon of academia) see the results of educators' endeavors daily. And if international test trends are any indication, the outcomes of your efforts are definitely not improving. I trust your union negotiated employee benefit package has done substantially better in recent years.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 07:56:19 PM
Nice retort...Now...Are you going to go sit in an elementary classroom and see what REALLY happens in the world of education?
Been there done that.
I asked why the kids were all over the place.
Why they were sitting on top of their desks.
And talking between themselves about football etc.
The answer, they have add or adhd or whatever.
The teacher was not in control of the classroom, so how in the world can she be teaching?
I should have known...OF COURSE Ross would have been there, done that, harder, longer, stronger, better, with worse spelling, than anyone else living. Gee, Patriot...You've got a ways to go before you've caught up with our Forum expert. Better get going, dude.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 08:26:45 PM
I should have known...OF COURSE Ross would have been there, done that, harder, longer, stronger, better, with worse spelling, than anyone else living. Gee, Patriot...You've got a ways to go before you've caught up with our Forum expert. Better get going, dude.
Judas! For an educator, you sure have a way of getting off track. What? No lesson plan to follow? Other than showing empathy, teachers should be generally be teaching and leaving social work to trained professionals in the fields of social work or psychology or counseling... Ross is spot on in that regard. Perhaps the mark of a true professional is knowing when to step aside and refer.
Quote from: Catwoman on August 30, 2011, 08:26:45 PM
I should have known...OF COURSE Ross would have been there, done that, harder, longer, stronger, better, with worse spelling, than anyone else living. Gee, Patriot...You've got a ways to go before you've caught up with our Forum expert. Better get going, dude.
You are so stupid I can't believe you are an educator.
Do you teach at West Elk?
If so perhaps that is why I pulled my son out of that school district.
You insisted on an attendence and you got it.
You don't like the truth so you are ignorant enough to try a put down.
INHO West Elk has the worst school superintendent I have ever spoke with in my 65 years of life.
And I have spoke with quite a few.
Oh, I happen to have a cousin who was one of those exceptional school teachers. She taught grade school for many years and then went to teaching high school. She returned to teaching grade school because far to many teachers were not teaching reading and writing to the children. I have to admit her husband falls on the other end of the spectrum. They ar both retired now. It's a shame because she was a great teacher, but a good thing because he was not.
But you probably cannot handle the truth.
Quote from: Patriot on August 30, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
I (and I suspect most adults outside the cocoon of academia) see the results of educators' endeavors daily. And if international test trends are any indication, the outcomes of your efforts are definitely not improving. I trust your union negotiated employee benefit package has done substantially better in recent years.
"Check out this article on how the market is providing the courses on Western classics and the canon that government and semi-government universities reject. Good luck learning about Shakespeare or Milton in college! May more people turn to educational sources like this rather than the State-dependent, politically correct campuses."
http://is.gd/w2VgH4
Ok Patriot--pay up buddy----I told you the "honeymoon" wouldn't last 48 hours. Which steak house we eating at ?