Elk County Forum

I copied and pasted this...and yes, the original was in a Caps Shouting talk (computer converstation).

DON'T CARE WHO I OFFEND WITH THIS. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL! MY GENERATION GREW UP RECITING THIS EVERY MORNING IN SCHOOL WITH HAND ON HEART. THEY NO LONGER DO THAT FOR FEAR OF OFFENDING SOMEONE!

It is my opinion that we have gone 'pamsy mamsy' or however it is said over things that is true to my heart.
How many schools still do this or the county meetings?  I know the 4-H clubs still do, or I hope they do.
And, the second question is:
Why are we so thin skinned that we even hav to address this??
and this is what I came up with...
Unfortunetly (sp), the ones we are offending are in charge, (and I use that term charge lightly) otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. And, why are we now being sensitive to the pollitically correct people police?

I guess i am an old fogey, however I am proud of it!

okay that was 3 questions...so now I am answering  myself!   :-[

Personally i don't care if i offend. :D  If i haven't offended someone at least once a day i'm not doing my job right.

You know, Steve I  try not offend....however they get in my beliefs and face.....and it just comes out!   :o
Then, I go to sleep for the evening!   Sort of like this  foum!   

I LOVE a good discussion..
as long as they agree with me. 

;D

Ready, you are starting to make sense  :laugh:

What schools do not say the pledge each day? All ours do here. Proof please? Urban legend or gossips trying to stir up trouble?
We have the pledge and a prayer from our Chaplin at our fire company meetings.
I know one school board downstate that made the papers because they have the pledge and a prayer at the beginning of their meetings. The reporter was trying to get something started and it failed. I think you'll find in most cases it's organized atheist groups trying to get their share of attention who try to cause trouble.

The Pledge is said daily at West Elk, and at each school board meeting.

It's early and I got confused there for a moment.  I know prayers are no longer said in school, with the exception of church sponsored pre-schools.  But, as far as I know, the pledge is recited in my granddaughter's class each day.  I am unaware of any schools around here that don't say the pledge each morning.

Larryj

http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000074

The table at the bottom of this web site has Pledge of Allegiance for schools information.

Thank you! That clears it up.

I can recall in 1954 when the Pledge of Allegiance was changed with the words "under God."

A lot of people in my town were grumbling about the change, but I don't recall that there was any organized resistance or public pressure against it.

In school, it took a few days for the entire class to get the hang of it for the two new words and I recall there was a lot of chuckling even by the teacher when some of the kids would forget to add the new words.

There's no reason to recite the Pledge of Allegiance that I can see unless one supports the tyranny of the central government and socialist direction of the USA.

I really feel sorry for your deep unhappiness.

I tend to agree with Red on this. Now don't get me wrong, that flag is revered and honored in this house!  And God help the fool that would desecrate one in front of me, cause i'll be going to jail for shoving the flagpole up their ass for it!  But I don't ever pledge allegience to a government.  My allegiance is to my country and only my country.  The words pledge the allegiance to the flag which is a maritime flag. It represents government not a nation in all reality.  The Republic is the Government, not the country and it assigns the flag as a representation of that government not our country.  The part of One nation under God is true, and i do support that. Indivisible not true, we are separate entities of 50 independent sovereigns, coming together as one force. Being that we are independent sovereigns we have all rights to not participate in any event if we so choose so we would be divided on some issues. Liberty is not given from the flag, it is given by God and no one else. The flag represents the lives of those lost defending our God given right of liberty, it represnts  a lot of blood and sacrifice so it is a hallowed flag.  Justice is not a part of the constitutional provisions. Justice is a by product of a republic based on a rule of law so the flag has nothing to do with justice! It was added as a feel good statement to make people feel all warm and fuzzy!

    When we had to learn the new "under God" part, I remember our teacher (Miss Cope)  having us practice it ...one nation, under God indivisible, with no pause after the word God. Somehow that has gotten lost over the years. She said it meant that as long as we were all united as Americans under God, the nation would never be split apart. We would stand strong together forever. 
    Remember, Korea had just ended and the military from both WWII and Korea were looking to settle down again and get back to "normal". Of course we read the bible every day back then, with the Jewish kids reading from the Old Testament if they chose to.It wasn't a big deal. 

Dianne:  It was the "Under God"  that we have an option to leave in or omit that I was referring to.

Why is this even considered?  That was what I was trying to say...no proof needed!
ready

"The Pledge itself is an oath of allegiance to the central state, and the "under God" language only serves to deify the state.  From the perspective of a Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, or James Madison, nothing could be more un-American.  After all, they and their contemporaries had fought a long and bloody war of secession to sever their forced allegiance, complete with loyalty oaths, to another overbearing and tyrannical state, namely the British empire."
-Dr. Thomas DiLorenzo

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo54.html

I have said the Pledge every day of my school year for over 15 years now...I pledge to defend, honor and support my nation, against all comers...I pledge to do my best to educate the children of people who aren't smart enough to know how good they've got it here (try having the kind of openness found on this Forum over in the Arab states...Go for it...)...I pledge to raise my children to be aware of the blessings that they enjoy just by accident of birth...And I pledge all of this, regardless of what namby pamby is at the helm.  I am an AMERICAN...Not just someone who sits around, bitches and cusses and yet sops up all of the great advantages that being an American affords them.

I DO PLEDGE.  If you don't like this great nation, then buy yourself a one-way ticket to anywhere else and get the hell out of here...WE DON'T NEED YOUR NOISE. 

Ready, thanks for your explanation. Are you old enough to remember having to relearn it?

I don't ever remember NOT saying 'Under God"  and I am 58.!

I understand as to why it was be put in...however I think it is about other groups of 'fair' and equality of religion that caused it to be considered taken out.  Perhaps someone could point me to a link for some more edumacation.

I still think it stinks.

And the powers that be, cat irregardless of how you feel,...could cause you to be reprimanded or fired for saying it.
Up to the kids to insert, yes I know....however you would then be considered a traitor to the laws of the land.

Not disagreeing with you...just giving you a sense of this world.
ready

Quote from: Catwoman on August 11, 2011, 04:38:59 PM
..I pledge to raise my children to be aware of the blessings that they enjoy just by accident of birth..

I'm not here by accident!   My family immigrated to this nation 135 years ago.  ON PURPOSE to provide a future for their children and childrens children.  No ma'am its not a accident i was born American!

Just a commonly used expression, Steve.  Nothing more.

I remember the pledge without "Under God".  We recited it every day in school, followed by the Lord's Prayer.  After I graduated and before I had children in school, it was changed.  Imagine my surprise the first time I heard it with "under God".  Took me a while to realize that something had changed.  If I remember right, this wasn't the first change that was made in the Pledge.

It changed from "my" flag to "the" flag and there may have been another change also. The "Under God" part was added as an anti Communist measure..on Flag Day in 1954.

An "anti-communist measure" added to a socialist oath? 

Yeah, that did a lot of good.......

Yall do realize if your a Christian you shouldn't be saying this pledge anyway...

Jam 5:12         But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

Yes, I agree with you Srkruzich. 

And too, why would anyone participate in saying a socialist oath? 

 You had to have lived when Eisenhower was President and Joe Mc Carthy's "commies under every leaf' was going on to understand it. I'm sure you are too young to get it.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 13, 2011, 11:54:50 AM
You had to have lived when Eisenhower was President and Joe Mc Carthy's "commies under every leaf' was going on to understand it. I'm sure you are too young to get it.

No i do get it. Still doesn't change my statement. :)

Actually I was speaking to Red. The President was trying to calm the people and get them to reconnect their country with God. At that time the communists were known to be anti God, anti organized religion of any kind. You are apparently very strict separation of church and state, but where does that leave our schools? No prayer, no flag, or neither? Where will the kids be taught any of it?
  By the way, to digress...For the last several years we have been running into a really odd thing at Safety Town. More and more of the four year olds didn't know their full names, addresses and phone numbers. That is so weird. When I was doing the parent session, the kindergarten teacher, who coordinates the lesson plans for each day and organizes the volunteer counselors, came in to ask the parents why their kids didn't know those important pieces of information. The parents just sat there with no reasons. I was shocked! These kids have been to preschool and start kindergarten in a couple of weeks! Every year Safety Town borrows our 9-11 simulator and when the fake dispatcher asks the child for that information...nothing. It's actually worse than it was five years ago. Anybody know what's up with that?

It's called laziness on the part of the parents.  That's not a preschool's job to teach that information...That's the parents' responsibility.  The ability to parent is something that is going downhill rapidly and has been for the last couple of generations.

I agree and I don't understand it. Parents are demanding their kids be taught what they want taught, and how they want it taught but won't meet the teacher half way with the basics.

Quote from catwoman :
The ability to parent is something that is going downhill rapidly and has been for the last couple of generations

Really !! Because you and Diane say so ? What is it I've read on here about not painting all teachers with a broad brush or something like that, then you question "our" ability to parent when there are a few bad apples out there ??

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 13, 2011, 01:21:58 PM
Actually I was speaking to Red. The President was trying to calm the people and get them to reconnect their country with God. At that time the communists were known to be anti God, anti organized religion of any kind. You are apparently very strict separation of church and state, but where does that leave our schools? No prayer, no flag, or neither?

Actually no i'm not.  :)  The verse specifically directs christians to not swear an oath. to say yes or no. 
Doesn't have a thing to do with the "myth" of separation of church and state.   

QuoteBy the way, to digress...For the last several years we have been running into a really odd thing at Safety Town. More and more of the four year olds didn't know their full names, addresses and phone numbers. That is so weird. When I was doing the parent session, the kindergarten teacher, who coordinates the lesson plans for each day and organizes the volunteer counselors, came in to ask the parents why their kids didn't know those important pieces of information. The parents just sat there with no reasons. I was shocked! These kids have been to preschool and start kindergarten in a couple of weeks! Every year Safety Town borrows our 9-11 simulator and when the fake dispatcher asks the child for that information...nothing. It's actually worse than it was five years ago. Anybody know what's up with that?

Don't know.  I don't rememer if my kids knew that at 4 or not.  They were never out of my sight.  Why would 911 be asking those questions anyway. They hae the information on their screen

Quote from: jarhead on August 13, 2011, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from catwoman :
The ability to parent is something that is going downhill rapidly and has been for the last couple of generations

Really !! Because you and Diane say so ? What is it I've read on here about not painting all teachers with a broad brush or something like that, then you question "our" ability to parent when there are a few bad apples out there ??

ROTFLMBO   Touche'

I only know what I've seen over these many years that I've taught and I only know what studies I've read...I don't create the facts, I just report them.  Yes, I've also taught my share of reclusive, "they're all out to get us" types' kids...I've also taught a heckofa bunch of "it's all about me" types' kids...And all of those kids, some of whom come from big money households, come in not knowing their own addresses for the most part.  Go figure.  I didn't list any names, Jar...I only reported what my own experience is.  If you are looking for others who also paint with a broad brush stroke, just start reading this board.

Jar, I didn't say or mean "all parents" any more than you apparently mean all teachers.
 What happened has a date and a time.That is very specific, no generality and sadly the list grows each year. These kids have names and faces and can be listed.  To have kids who don't know their own last name? Can you explain it? Why the attempt at a tactical diversion?  No touche' wise guy.
Steve, your kids never went to play at another child's house, or went to visit family elsewhere?  Or road bikes or went fishing or walked the hills? Hovering were you? ;)
 As far as asking the questions ,not all kids call from home. Some are on cell phones that may or may not have GPS and even then it may be turned off. E 9-1-1-works very well almost always, but for lost or abducted kids it won't always help and not all states have it. Kids visit relatives in other states also and may know where they are, but not the address. In that case kids who are a little older are asked to see if they can find a piece of mail that has been addressed to that house. Fortunately the 911 operators are very good and get what they need almost every time. But the kids still need to know the right emergency number for where they are.
Some people have programmed phones where the kids just push one button, it may have a picture on it, but they are all different, not easy to teach any more. It's all those individual freedoms doncha know...makes  indoctrinating and socializing those kids harder! ;D ;D ;D  Hey, come to think of it, if those parents didn't care, why should I?  I think Ill retire! ::) :P 8)

Diane, you can't blame them for not getting it.  People who don't teach...Who have no other experience with education other than the one they received themselves...Don't have any idea what it is to try to lead these newest generations forward, out of the darkness of ignorance, into the light of rational thought.  It just points up how oblivious most adults are to how hard it is, anymore, to try to be an educator.  They just flat out don't get it. 

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 13, 2011, 03:46:10 PM
Jar, I didn't say or mean "all parents" any more than you apparently mean all teachers.
 What happened has a date and a time.That is very specific, no generality and sadly the list grows each year. These kids have names and faces and can be listed.  To have kids who don't know their own last name? Can you explain it? Why the attempt at a tactical diversion?  No touche' wise guy.
Steve, your kids never went to play at another child's house, or went to visit family elsewhere?  Or road bikes or went fishing or walked the hills? Hovering were you? ;)

Not at 4 and 5 years old they weren't. What parent would allow their 4 and 5 year old to run off alone?  Sheesh. common sense here.  When they were 8 or 9 then they ran around the neighborhood off in the woods ect and by then they did know their information.

QuoteThey just flat out don't get it. 

1. The kids have been told from the parents:  tell them no information!

2.  Trust no one!

I knew my name was Ready at birth,  :o but all kidding aside...
I knew my name cognitivly at 4 or 5.   (cuz when mamma called it...I came running!)
I was called a nickname untill I went to 1st grade.

The fact that these questions are being asked of PRESCHOOL kids is rediculous to me.
We barely knew our siblings and the house, let alone our full name and how to spell it!

Are we asking too much information too early from those that are too young?

ready, I was told!

Ready, you're more right than the government teachers. 

A little kid not knowing his midddle name or address is not nearly as bad some of the regular things the gov't teachers don't know.  It's no wonder they're unionized.

Absolutely not, Red.  Your ignorance is showing in a blaringly obvious way.  In the day we were raised in, everyone knew everyone else...There was no need to know your own address, due to everyone else knowing it for you.  In this day and age, where you can live on a street where you might be acquainted with about three other houses on the street and not know the rest, it is imperitive that kids know their home addresses, their ages and their full name by the time they are in Kindergarten.  If they get separated from their parents, there would be no way for anyone who would try to help that child to be of any help AT ALL if that kid didn't know that basic information.  I would love to think that the entire world was the same as the sheltered existence of Elk County, Mayberry and every other feel-good place...But it isn't...And again, NO, we're not expecting too much of a 4 year old to know those basic facts.  Four year olds are a heckofa lot smarter than most people give them credit for!  Yes, tell the kids to not tell anyone that info unless they are a cop...But for your child's sake...Please, please, please teach them that information.  Safeguard your family in that manner.

To Pledge Or Not To Pledge
Through statist education, we learn and accept without question what we are fed as long as it is seasoned with sugar-coated treats. In the midst of America's present cultural war, it is imperative that we re-examine all of our "traditions" that have been accepted as part of American "patriotism." This we shall attempt to do with the "PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE," which was born out of the concepts of political liberalism and "Christian Socialism."

Good article sent to me by a retired USAF man:
http://www.truthinhistory.org/to-pledge-or-not-to-pledge.html

This is how you answer what I said? lol  Oh, Red...You really are a one-tune Johnny...lol  ;D

QuoteIf they get separated

Therein lies only part of the problem.

Catwoman, laugh all you want.  You liberals aren't as funny as you think.

You were right, Cat in that everyone knew where we all alived, who were their mom & pop as well as what color underwear we all wore by what was on the line.

However, when 911 addresses came into play...most people were confused. 
Why change it?  I do now know.
And, Diane I know you will chime in as this is a responder's issue.   

The 911 addresses are so far fetched from the real proximaty (sp) that no wonder I don't even know my own 911 address!  Cuz it makes no sense!  And yet, we have to learn it and teach it.

Sort of like education (minus the stuff that cat does   :D)

ready to learn...a bit

I knew my basic information at 2.5 when we still lived in an apartment in Wilmington. THE CITY! I was three in January and we moved to the big house I grew up in in March. The road was gravel and in poor shape. Talk about mud season.  But I was taught my new address and phone number immediately.
Now this could be funny, but I know you are serious. People say we are so far behind other countries in so much, but precocious fours shouldn't have to know their basic information?  No, they don't have to spell it, just say it. Ready, I'm sure you recognized your name when your mom said it at age two. Kid's can recognize before they can say...Point to a cow.. they can. At age four you didn't know your own brothers and sisters? I find that hard to believe. Pre school and daycare kids have no trouble learning their classmate's names. The Daycare two's not so much, but three's and fours, absolutely. They sure know their own name if it is spoken by the teacher or aide. I'll defer to Angie on the details. ;) :D  We have kids out on buses at four and they do not have parents with them. Head Start, some preschools. Some K. kids are still four when Kindergarten starts, I know I was. I wasn't five until January and February 1st was the cut off.  All kinds of goofy things happen. Suppose your child is a walker. Shouldn't they know the address as well as just recognizing their house?  Suppose something happens and they can't go home the usual way, then what?
You don't want to hear it, but being in emergency services we deal with the unexpected all the time. Imagine three full school buses, none of the kids are local, that all hit each other and we have to sort them all out from injures to ID's to panicked parents. Just what we don't need is kids who don't know their names and we're trying to find out from other kids who these kids are.NOT FUN. I can't imagine why parents would fight this, but I guess it takes all kinds.
Ready, I'm not sure what you mean with 9-11 addresses not being the house address. Clue me in please?

Ready, I wish you knew me as well as you seem to think you do...I am by no means a Liberal...Far from it.  What is it you in the Bible thumping community like to quote?  "Judge not lest you be judged..."

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 13, 2011, 11:54:50 AM
You had to have lived when Eisenhower was President and Joe Mc Carthy's "commies under every leaf' was going on to understand it. I'm sure you are too young to get it.

These days there's more commies and socialists in the USA.  They call themselves "progressives".

QuoteReady, I'm not sure what you mean with 9-11 addresses not being the house address. Clue me in please?

rural addresses, Diane.   a street name for a dirt road.

omg.  Red, you just don't quit, do you...lol   ::)

QuoteI am by no means a Liberal...

I don't recall putting you into a box or a label, Cat.   

Sorry...I should have quit typing when I got to the end of Red...I made it Ready...My apologies...lol  ::) ;D

and Diane....out here in the Wild West (people are killed, but no murder is pinned)
as an example the dirt road is Kangaroo Rd...with a 5 digit #.

A FAR CRY from RR 1..at least we knew what side of town the mail went to!

QuoteI made it Ready

::)  ::)  ::)  :P

Catwoman, there you again - denying that you're a liberal.  Seems like Diane has done that too.

Oh well, you can't fool all of us no matter how much you try.

okay folks, I am off to bed.
Tomorrow I may or may not see a Catwoman go over a RedCliff!

mmmmmeeoooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Luckily, this Cat has nine lives...And the cliff isn't one this cat would ever jump over, let alone worry about! lol  ;D

Quote from: readyaimduck on August 13, 2011, 04:26:50 PM
1. The kids have been told from the parents:  tell them no information!

2.  Trust no one!

ABSOLUTELY!  Thats what i taught all mine.
Do not answer the door, even if the cops show up. 

Quote from: Catwoman on August 13, 2011, 05:52:35 PM
Ready, I wish you knew me as well as you seem to think you do...I am by no means a Liberal...Far from it.  What is it you in the Bible thumping community like to quote?  "Judge not lest you be judged..."

ONLY those who don't liike being told their wrong use that.  :)  Bible thumpers know that

1Cr 6:2 KJV - Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Cr 6:3 KJV - Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Ok Ready, I get it now. I can only speak to how it is here though. Before we got universal 911, the farm lands were given numbers on a grid, say every 500 feet down the "front" of the place, meaning the drive or entry road, which each were given names. (The old road numbers still technically exist, but aren't used for mail or emergencies.)  The number that landed closest to the drive also became the mailing address.  My own parents house went from  RD 1 Box 171,  to 303 Newark Road. The box number and RD was discarded, so the mailing address became 303 Newark Road also .  So would the 5 digit Kangaroo Road also be your mailing address?  Or just for 9-1-1? Or do you still have an RR and box number?  I wouldn't like that. My own family out there had PO boxes so I didn't know their RR's.

Red, sweetie, aren't you getting enough attention? Sorry kid, I don't care what you call me. You don't have any importance in my life and affect nothing I do. I'd like to be friends with everyone out there but a couple of you simply make that impossible.
You, my dear have a serious OC problem. I wish you well with that. It's pretty common actually....even on the forum. But then as some say, bad publicity over and over and over and over is better than none at all, and doesn't have the expected effect.....  :angel:

Quote from: srkruzich on August 13, 2011, 06:22:02 PM
ONLY those who don't liike being told their wrong use that.  :)  Bible thumpers know that

1Cr 6:2 KJV - Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Cr 6:3 KJV - Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Well, as you're the first one, on a different thread, to use that, I guess you'd know... ;D

The 9-1-1 address is the same as the mailing address.  At least for rural delivery people.  I don't know about the ones that have to go to the post office for their mail.  They all have street addresses which, logically, would be their 9-1-1 address, while their post office box number would be their mailing address.  When Elk County went 9-1-1, all the mailing addresses were changed to the 9-1-1 address.  Finding a rural address in Elk County is simple.  The north-south roads are numbered and the east-west roads are named alphabetically starting at the west side of the county and at the south side of the county.  Therefore, an address on Turkey Road would be in the north part of the county, actually one mile south of the Greenwood County line.  Road 7 would be 7 miles east of the Butler County line.

As long as your emergency personnel know how it works, which obviously they would, it works for me. ;)

Quote from Catwoman:
Diane, you can't blame them for not getting it.  People who don't teach...Who have no other experience with education other than the one they received themselves...Don't have any idea what it is to try to lead these newest generations forward, out of the darkness of ignorance, into the light of rational thought.  It just points up how oblivious most adults are to how hard it is, anymore, to try to be an educator.  They just flat out don't get it.  

cat, I would think if your choice of employment was so hard, if I was you I would be looking for another job. The stress of your hard job might get you down and we wouldn't want that now would we ?
You seem to think that very few of us on this forum know what it's like being a teacher. I know I taught classes on Laaw, in Hawaii, probably before you were even born. I liked teaching Laaw but decided it was time to make a career change.
Even ol Sarge was a teacher way back when. I think it was in Mississippi or Alabama

Jar, did the rains last night make the BS deep or what?  Speaking of teachers, did you call your Aunt and wish her a happy 94th birthday?  And your other Aunt that was a teacher for 40 some years will be 93 on Monday.

Damn, what school do you teach at?

Quote from: Catwoman on August 13, 2011, 11:29:39 PM
I DARE you...extremely high stress...easier than teaching the kids today...social abilities of the students have decreased...Until some of you "civilians"...you don't have the foggiest idea...no idea of the stress levels...you have no real appreciation...advice from the unwashed masses...Let the howls of indignation start.

And dear, precious teach....that would be TOLL, not TOLE...geez, and WE'RE the idiots here! Or were you just "testing" us once again to see if we were paying attention? poke, poke, ha, ha, hee, hee!!  ::)

quote from catwoman:
Jar, I DARE you to try teaching elementary, with about 25-28 in one class...Go for it, big guy...You'll find out quick that it's extremely high stress.  It's not like teaching a bunch of adult yahoos about da law...And teaching way before I was born would have been a HELL of a lot easier than teaching the kids today..


Cattywoman,
I did not say I taught "da law" I said I taught classes on the LAAW (Light Anti-tank / Assault Weapon ), along with classes on Squad tactics. No , no stress there---just a bunch of "adult yahoos" who without exception were Viet Nam bound, knowing that some of them would return in body bags---but no stress !! Maybe it would have been more important to teach them about nouns and verbs but at the time I tried to teach them something that might--just might save their life.It would have been nice if you would just call them young Marines because "adult Yahoos' doesn't really pay them justice.
As you repeatedly like to beat your chest about being teacher and what a hard job it is--and what a great job you are doing--you might want to read your below post.
Re: Elk County Hand Out At Commissioners Meeting on 4/25
« Reply #2170 on: Today at 09:44:18 am »  

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Mr. Ross, it is a well known fact that there are those who have a deep-seated need to seek attention...And then there are those who have no need of that and do the right thing anyway, quietly, knowing it was the right thing to do.

Jarhead,

I had very little contact with the LAW other than training but what really surprised me as a young kid was that it was a fire once and then throw it away weapon.

The Army even classified it as ammunition, as I recall.

Waldo,
The LAAW was a fire once, throw it away weapon. We trained with a 3.5 Rocket Launcher (bazooka ) but I never saw one in Nam. It was too heavy to lug around in the mountains in NW Nam---not to say it wasn't used elsewhere further south. I would like to say I blew the crap out of stuff with a LAAW but truth be, I never fired one in Nam. Until I became a radioman (OJT) I did carry my fair share of LAAW's and they were a nice little "bunker buster" I could have witnessed it taking out bunkers but me being interested in soil conservation, at those times, I had my nose close to the ground studying the dirt---up close and personal  !! :)

Quote from: Catwoman on August 14, 2011, 09:25:02 AM

Listen, you moron...
Now...I'll retract the claws and go continue my efforts in my school room today.  I prefer the low SES crowd to what I'm finding here. 

So much for your intellectual writing abilities... good Christian woman (your words, not mine), right?  Now, tell us how you were 'goaded' into your high tech reaction.  Thank God your not a gun carrying law enforcement officer.... with that short fuse n all.

As you will note, I have removed myself from this discussion.  I can't do anything to help the lack of knowledge displayed here.  And, by the way...As many months as I've been listening to this uninformed BS, I'd hardly call my reacting now having a short fuse.  Someone needs to put all of you idiots in your place.

Diane, they're all yours.  

Quote from: Catwoman on August 13, 2011, 07:55:22 PM
Well, as you're the first one, on a different thread, to use that, I guess you'd know... ;D

kinda negates the judge not least ye be judged.

Quote from: jarhead on August 14, 2011, 08:39:04 AM
quote from catwoman:
Jar, I DARE you to try teaching elementary, with about 25-28 in one class...Go for it, big guy...You'll find out quick that it's extremely high stress.  It's not like teaching a bunch of adult yahoos about da law...And teaching way before I was born would have been a HELL of a lot easier than teaching the kids today..

Ehhhh elementary kids are creampuffs!  You haven't done squat til you jump into the lions den of highschool

Quote from: Catwoman on August 14, 2011, 10:38:41 AM
As you will note, I have removed myself from this discussion.  I can't do anything to help the lack of knowledge displayed here.  And, by the way...As many months as I've been listening to this uninformed BS, I'd hardly call my reacting now having a short fuse.  Someone needs to put all of you idiots in your place.

Diane, they're all yours.  

Oh, yes, please, Diane, PLEASE put all of us IDIOTS in our place...We just can't wait to see what kind of infinite wisdom you can spout today!! Or how many times you can change the subject to suit your spoutings....

Quote from: Catwoman on August 14, 2011, 10:38:41 AM
As you will note, I have removed myself from this discussion.  I can't do anything to help the lack of knowledge displayed here.  And, by the way...As many months as I've been listening to this uninformed BS, I'd hardly call my reacting now having a short fuse.  Someone needs to put all of you idiots in your place.

Diane, they're all yours.  

Removed yourself?  No, you removed a couple of indefensible rants rather than face the music.  Pretty gutless and lacking in integrity, imo.  I have no doubt you're still cussin & discussin in the background.

wow!
Now, back to the discussion at hand.  What has hppened to folks?
Our rights are being chisled at little by little (as in termites) that can't be killed one by one...nah....have to fumigate. That starts with the people questioning and depicting the laws....the congress as well as the president.
And in my opinion....they don't really care...only what the people that give them the most money says...
That's called buying your Senator on sale.

On this forum, it is not any different than whether we should say the Pledge of Allegience, or not and if we do wether to insert Under God...for lest we not offend ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And, I think there are a few on here that cannot be boughten and wil stand their ground.

In the meantime...how as we, the Idiot, little people of podunk Kansas fix or deal with this?

ready for action, cuz this country's delimma gives me a bad tasted in my mouth.   and I won't move to SWITZERLAND...although I do love their cheese!    ;D

I ammend my post:
only some of them care, and unfortunetly they are the ones lost in the shuffle of decisions.

Quote from: readyaimduck on August 14, 2011, 12:44:10 PM
In the meantime...how as we, the Idiot, little people of podunk Kansas fix or deal with this?

The same way one eats an elephant, ready.
One prayer, one vote and one commission/school/council member at a time... one at a time.

 Hey! I'm not sure how I got projected into Mrs. Smart Mouth's sauciness ( as in KS, ) but I'm up to it if you are.  You shot off your mouth at me first.  I hadn't even been on here today. It is Sunday you know, and that was unnecessary and rude. Last I knew I was talking about 9-11 yesterday. Ya called me out! >:(
     Stop with the "idiot' business .It isn't the least bit noble of you, speaking of changing the subject.You and I both know you are not an idiot and I don't know what you are trying to gain with the self depreciation. I'd much rather debate issues in education when they are appropriate, and stop with the personal smarmy insults. Does being the "nasty Bitch" give you an edge somehow?
     In one way or another I've taught age two day care kids on through grad students at at U D, still do. I'll be doing a RA class in fire safety soon .(one does not make fights in the hall with the fire extinguishers, one gets instantly expelled. (Remember YOU as an adult signed your room contract.) BYE-BYE!  Frankly, Steve, I found the "cream puffs" to be the high school kids.They were always very respectful and genuinely interested. The Middle school kids were the toughest. But the moment I set a fire I had 'em! ;D
 I do know the temperaments of all those educational ages and developmental stages. So what.
 Ready, as far a what had been the topic ...a few need to make up their minds. Presidents get criticized for lack of flag salutes or flag pins, but now we have a faction declaring that this county's citizens shouldn't be doing either as it's anti Christian and pro socialist?   EEEK!
So now the teachers should stop teaching or saying the Pledge to keep a certain few happy...and they aren't even aliens or atheists?   Nope,nope, nope.  Pull the kids and start your own school and never let them stray from their own community. Uh,never mind they already exist. ;)
Much too weird for this old lady. I'd still rather appreciate the many unrestricted freedoms we have here that other citizens in other countries just dream of. Of course it isn't perfect, but please tell me where you would rather live? Warts and all.  Did that ramble enough for ya? :angel:

Uh Diane, I believe if you go back to cattywoman's reply # 74, (unless she deleted it like she has other posts) she is the one that called us idiots, to start all this "idiot business". Just curious---when was the last year you were a school teacher ? I think you told us in the past but I forgot

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 01:39:59 PM
Hey! I'm not sure how I got projected into Mrs. Smart Mouth's sauciness ( as in KS, ) but I'm up to it if you are.  You shot off your mouth first.  It is Sunday you know, and that was unnecessary and rude.
     Stop with the "idiot' business .It isn't the least bit noble of you, speaking of changing the subject.You and I both know you are not an idiot and I don't know what you are trying to gain with the self depreciation. I'd much rather debate issues in education when they are appropriate, and stop with the personal smarmy insults. Does being the "nasty Bitch" give you an edge somehow?

Excuse you, darlin...And yes i am MRS. SMART MOUTH, thanks for noticing...Your buddy Cattywoman is the one that called us all morons, or maybe just me, BEFORE she deleted her post. But Patriot has some of it, like the "MORONS" part, quoted in his reply#73, and Cattywoman's #74 that jarhead mentioned in his latest post. I didn't start out being the NASTY BITCH today, but if you want me to be, I can damned sure oblige you. In the future, that's MS. BITCH to you. Amazingly enough, I didn't even sign the post and you automatically assumed it to be me instead of my husband. Pardon me for the poke, poke, ha ha, hee hee remark; I forgot that you have the trademark on that one! If people want to correct other people and tell people off by using the poke, poke, ha ha, hee hee method (because that makes it ALL better ya know) then what is good for the "teachers" is good for us common, average folk. I could care less what you think of me, because you are way over there and I'm way over here. Oh yes, it IS Sunday, here in the Bible Belt...time for Nascar if they get the track dried off...Toodles, sweetheart!  :-*----JENNIFER L. WALKER, a.k.a. NASTY BITCH

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 01:39:59 PM
Hey! I'm not sure how I got projected into Mrs. Smart Mouth's sauciness ( as in KS, ) but I'm up to it if you are.  You shot off your mouth at me first.  I hadn't even been on here today. It is Sunday you know, and that was unnecessary and rude.

Just shows how much you are missed... ha ha hee hee poke poke  :) :o ;) :D :angel: :'(

What does the day of the week have to do with anything? 

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 01:39:59 PM
Did that ramble enough for ya? :angel:

Bout par for the course.  No great, but OK.  ha ha hee hee poke poke  :) :o ;) :D :angel: :'(

Quote from: kshillbillys on August 14, 2011, 02:19:51 PM
In the future, that's MS. BITCH to you.

SMACKdown!
One!  Thank you, Ms Bitch, may we have another?

SMACKdown!
Two!  Thank you, Ms Bitch, may we have another?

SMACKdown!
Three!  Thank you, Ms Bitch.


It was good for me, Diane.  Was it good for you?

(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb214.gif)

When "MS Bitch" acts like one (her choice) and calls me out like she did, I can say what I want. I can swear like a trucker if I need to make a point, but I can usually lift myself above the drivel without needing to.
AND I WILL REPEAT, I'VE NEVER SAID ANYTHING UNTOWARD ABOUT MAIL CARRIERS!  WHY PLAY IN THE MUD.   Aren't you above that? So Sunday means nothing to you all?  Now that is sad.
I've corn to shuck. How you act with your decorum now is up to you, double standards and all. As you say, people are watching.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 03:16:35 PM
AND I WILL REPEAT, I'VE NEVER SAID ANYTHING UNTOWARD ABOUT MAIL CARRIERS!  WHY PLAY IN THE MUD.

Inferences count too. 

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 03:16:35 PM
So Sunday means nothing to you all?  Now that is sad.

If, by inference, you are eluding to the Sabbath... You don't wanna go there.   

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 03:16:35 PM
How you act with you decorum now is up to you, double standards and all.

More negative inference an innuendo?  Thought you were above that.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 03:16:35 PM
As you say, people are watching.

I saw a national poll last week showing that conservatives outnumber liberals in America by 2 to 1.
The more watching, the merrier.

Quote from: kshillbillys on August 14, 2011, 11:18:02 AM
Oh, yes, please, Diane, PLEASE put all of us IDIOTS in our place...We just can't wait to see what kind of infinite wisdom you can spout today!! Or how many times you can change the subject to suit your spoutings....

Does anyone want to explain which part of this post I made is horribly bitchy? I didn't call anyone a name, but was called "Mrs. Smart Mouth" and "Nasty Bitch" for it. (And by the way, I'm not crying or whining or having a pity party like SOME people who shall remain nameless do, i'm simply asking a question here...) It was Cattywoman (jarhead's name for her, not mine, but I like it) that told Diane we are all hers. I only repeated the comment that we are all IDIOTS. Sarcasm is such fun and I am VERY fluent in it. I mean, you would have gave us your two cents on the subject anyway; it's not like Cattywoman had to really twist your arm. You feel the need to spout your infinite wisdom on every subject to us all the time, so it's not like I was actually calling you out. I was speaking the truth. The sarcasm was that we just couldn't WAIT TO SEE what you would say. Not everyone hangs on your every word with bated breath!

Sunday means all sorts of things to me, so nothing is sad. It's your high and mighty self that thinks that Sunday means nothing to me. I don't have to tell you what Sunday means to me though, because those are my private, innermost thoughts and feelings and I don't feel the need to share them with you.

Do I care if you have ever said anything untoward about mail carriers? I haven't said anything untoward about volunteer firefighters or their secretaries or dispatchers or whatever, either. What exactly is your point? I just don't care to hear your point of view on every damn subject there is because Cattywoman started a fight and then backed out and wanted you to put us in our places. If that makes me a bitch, then so be it. I've been called worse by better people who actually know me and have a clue. You do not and cannot hurt my feelings because I don't know you personally and never will. So, honey, calling me names doesn't bother me. I'm a VERY strong woman and can handle myself. Apparently, pretty well. -----Jennifer

QuoteThe same way one eats an elephant, ready.

"tusk, tusk"

I leave for 3 hours and chaotic bantering is amok!
Patriout:
I prefer to eat my elephants with a hint of a kick from the rear, bray and then charge again....but that is just how I roll.
Otherwise, if grilled then a hint of lemon-lime and a chaser of tequilla to get rid of the taste!
ready for a toothpick!
:P

Jennifer:  perhaps you need to give your husband his own account, and not post on yours!??

It's confusing to us Sunday-go-to-meeting folks!

;D

But, Ready, WE are the KSHillbillys...what would my posting name be, Ms. Bitch? I guess that would make it far more easier for people to know who is talking..BUT we usually sign our names to particular posts if both of us aren't adding to it. That was my mistake for not signing that first one. I was just amazed that she knew it was me...It's like she's in my head or something! poke, poke, ha ha, hee hee and all that jazz! :o --Jen

Quote from kshillbillys:
It was Cattywoman (jarhead's name for her, not mine

uh Jen, would you beleive it was a typo? Danged ol typing finger runs wild sometimes

Quote from: jarhead on August 14, 2011, 04:06:47 PM
Quote from kshillbillys:
It was Cattywoman (jarhead's name for her, not mine
uh Jen, would you beleive it was a typo? Danged ol typing finger runs wild sometimes

Choke, gurgle, snicker, snort, sneeze..."BULLSPIT!"

I am editing this post.
Patriot:  my fat fingers, too!

To quote the late Bob Fosse:  "It's showtime, folks!"

School teachers do have it harder than 30 years ago.   More regulations about what you can and cannot teach, HAVE to politically correct and not offend, or you will be in a lawsuit with the parents about little Johnny; have to learn to deal with (not sure of the correct Letters anymore...as they keep re-defining them) the disabled/challenged/pill popping hyper spoined brats.....<<<<<okay that was my name calling.

What used to be a well received, as well as a satifiying job had turned into a glorified babysitter!

It's not necessarily Johnny that is at fault, as it is his parents, as well as his infulences!  (xbox, videos, movies, tv, peers that are just as bad as 'A cat on a Hot Tin Roof"
ready

You answered you own question quite nicely. You invite me to put you down and then complain? Perhaps too much? My My...gotcha this time Sugar Plum, not that is matters.  I've got other things to do.

Quote from: readyaimduck on August 14, 2011, 04:13:18 PM
It's not necessarily Johnny that is at fault, as it is his parents, as well as his infulences!  (xbox, videos, movies, tv, peers that are just as bad as 'A cat on a Hot Tin Roof"
ready

I would add that society at large is a contributor.  It was ill informed voters responding emotionally to a liberal progressive message that voted in politicians and education boards that codified laws and wrote the rules that have largely precluded a disciplined approach to schooling.  Condoms on cucumbers, indeed!  I think the same group is largely responsible for much of the sad state of affairs nationally.

We get what we vote for.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 04:32:14 PM
I've got other things to do.

Uh.. we heard you the first time.  Why all the departure fanfare?

To wit:

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 03:16:35 PM
I've corn to shuck.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 04:32:14 PM
You answered you own question quite nicely. You invite me to put you down and then complain? Perhaps too much? My My...gotcha this time Sugar Plum, not that is matters.  I've got other things to do.

Please, please wonder teacher, double check your posts for errors. It's sad when, in the past, you put people down for spelling and grammar and you yourself can't quite seem to get things right. It's called proof-reading; try it sometime.

If you will take the time to comprehend my post, I was merely asking a question, NOT complaining. YOU could NEVER give me TOO much. See, unlike you, I couldn't care less what you say about me. As I stated before, I'm quite strong and you mean nothing to me. I will live through being called a bitch (it's a badge I wear with honor) and won't have to bring it up time and time again to gain the sympathy and pity of others, like you do when someones "gets" you. Go shuck your corn and do the other things you need to do. We will all survive quite well in your absence.---Jen

Dearest Jennifer, I don't know if you are blaming your parents or not, but read the bottom of your own page.  You basically insult anyone who reads you, then you advertize as a Bitch and then woof because I was pissed and used it?  Are you trying to be cute or what? Ya called me out! What did you expect? I am not your door mat.  You were not "merely" asking anything. It was cheap shot at me, who hadn't even been in the conversation. For once ya blew it and you aren't woman enough to admit it. Now go suck your toe.
I promise you nobody "gets Me''...I have had a good teacher since then and have learned not to let lesser beings bother me.  Yes, I missed an error, usually I catch them. I was pissed and in a hurry. Careless on my part, I agree. Many forum folks make hundreds of errors I never touch because they are just typos. If it makes something funny, I'll comment. You've got the spelling trophy, not I. I'm a good speller, you are better. No problem there. You are also a much better typist.
Others poke at each other quite often, go call them out for a change.

No, Diane. I am not your 'dearest' anything so don't start with sappy salutations. I don't blame my parents for a damned thing. They did a great job raising me. Don't believe that, go ask my mother. I'm a bitch and proud of it. I am not pissed about anything but your holier than thou attitude. My first post after Catty calling us all idiots and morons, was sarcasm; i'm sorry that I wasted it on you. You read my post and jumped on me for dragging you into this when it was Catty who dragged you in. Again, please read and try to comprehend. I will not sit idly by and let you jump me, either. I am NOT your door mat, either. The post I made after you jumped on me, I WAS merely asking a question. No cheap shot, you were already involved in the conversation. I didn't blow a damned thing and trust me, I am woman enough to admit when i'm wrong and don't have to rely on snide remarks that I think I can smooth over and make cute with a little poke, poke and stupid looking grinning smiley emoticon. I am damned sure NOT a lesser being than you (gosh, and you say this on the Lord's day, how sad). I've got several spelling trophies and can type well over 100 wpm, big deal. They make spell check and people proof read all the time. Being pissed isn't an excuse, or I would make hundreds of mistakes replying to people on this forum. And, all people have to do is go back through your posts over the years to see that yes, people 'get' you and you whine about it for months.

I stand by what I said earlier. Please, go do your chores. Really, we will survive quite well in your absence, Ms. Amberg-Silverman!----Jennifer

What a waste. Still keeping score after all this time?  Can't get past anything and move on? That's a shame. I did. I learned who I can trust, and who is just antagonizing others to fight among themselves and look foolish, for their own entertainment.
I know who will rise to the tiniest bit of bait and who knows better. It's working very well. Certain kinds of people will fall for it every time.
Lesser beings..... You assumed I meant you? How interesting. It really isn't all about you ya know.  I really did have someone else in mind. So you used my whole name? So? What was that all about? It doesn't matter. I even have a photo. I don't need to hide. Who are you trying to make points with anyway? What a waste.

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 05:56:19 PM
....and have learned not to lesser beings bother me. You've got the spelling troph...You are also a much better typist.

Dammit Jennifer, you lesser being... you're still a darned good speller n typist.  No matter what anybody says!  LOL

I agree, Diane.  ;D ;D  The sad thing is, she's giving every good female dog a bad name... ;D ::)

Isn't it interesting...The one time that I stoop to their level, all of a sudden the schoolyard bullies all arrive, en masse...Well, Diane, have at it.  You're doing great! lol  ;D  I can leave it in your capable hands...Oh...And sorry for dragging you into this against your will.  Isn't it INCREDIBLE, how much power one can wield from this far across the country...!!  ::) ;D

(hand to ear, talking into the mike)>>>>This important message was brought to you by:  "What has happened folks" - a good product of upbringing, spelling and just honest to gosh darn fun!>>>> :-X
                                                                                                 

Now, to return to our primtime presentation:  What has happened folks?
Is it the system or we as voters?  I may have to agree with Patriot on that we are the ones that put them in office.


(No digging to either of you..ks or anyone else....now wipe the spit out of each of your own eyes and let's talk)
readyaimduck

Quote from: Catwoman on August 14, 2011, 07:16:30 PM
...The one time that I stoop to their level...

One time?   (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/wp-content/uploads/happy0007.gif) (http://www.emoticonsfree.org/)

Quote from: readyaimduck on August 14, 2011, 07:16:54 PM
I may have to agree with Patriot on that we are the ones that put them in office.

I hold to the premise that when an employee screws up, the first time or two, the employee is at fault.

If the screw ups continue, it's middle management.

When the $hit really gets messed up, it's executives.

If the problems reach the FUBAR level... the owners bear the ultimate responsibility.  In the corporate world, it's the stockholders who put the executives in place.  In politics...it's the voters.  Ultimately, the stakeholders get the rewards created or lost by the folks they put in charge.  Garbage truly does flow uphill.

Now that makes sense, unfortunetly the middle management is caught in the middle.
Cut out the middle man, and we all win.
I will have to think about that plan for a bit.
Right now, I need to think about how my pillow interacts with my head in a horizontal position.

All of you take care.
..Later.
..Dreams.
Ready

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 07:04:23 PM
What a waste.  Lesser beings..... You assumed I meant you? How interesting. It really isn't all about you ya know.  I really did have someone else in mind. So you used my whole name? So? What was that all about? It doesn't matter. I even have a photo. I don't need to hide. Who are you trying to make points with anyway? What a waste.

Well, excuse me, Diane, your post was directed to me right? Why don't you point out exactly who the 'lesser beings' are so I don't have to assume, or is that just another bold faced lie from you, yet again? No, I didn't mention your whole name. I didn't throw in any bastard child names. You really try to put up a front to hide the white trash that you are. I guess i'm not so ashamed of my husbands' name that I don't use it. And I am 'hiding' behind a confederate flag, but my picture has been up before. And to look at your picture, you really are the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Lay off the koolaid.

"BAITED" BREATH? HA.  What does one use for bait?  My, my what a piece of work. Fortunately this piece of white trash doesn't take any of your rantings as anything but what they are, rantings. They mean nothing to me.
Why are you so upset? You called me out, not the other way around. (Sorry Ready, but I guess somebody wasn't.) Hey folks, it's insults at 40 paces! Lay your wager down now. Trailer trash VS white trash, round and round she goes....One claims to be an expert at sarcasm, but can't handle it when anybody else uses it. OK, now for the Carnival Barker, one Patriot, to stir the pot again to keep it going, all for one thin dime. Ladies and gents, what a show! Don't miss it. Gooood Grief. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 14, 2011, 08:13:08 PM
OK, now for the Carnival Barker, one Patriot, to stir the pot again to keep it going, all for one thin dime.

Hardly a challenge.  No need for a carnival barker  You're so relentlessly self motivated... you're a one person circus.  Keep up the good work.

Hee hee hee, h, ha, poke, poke.   :)

Remember, I didn't start this. :angel:   I just didn't back down this time. ::)  I will not play door mat.    "Baited" breath...from a champion speller....with a very short fuse.( Giggle.) Break time .Gonna go watch "East Enders" Nighty night.

Patriot, the sign says it all!

Quote from: Patriot on August 14, 2011, 02:40:46 PM

SMACKdown!
One!  Thank you, Ms Bitch, may we have another?

SMACKdown!
Two!  Thank you, Ms Bitch, may we have another?

SMACKdown!
Three!  Thank you, Ms Bitch.


It was good for me, Diane.  Was it good for you?

(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb214.gif)

Jeez all the stuff just before my quote of Patriot and the few pages after up to my post are really mean. Not that I am without sin, but you guys just turned pro. I am immpressed and sticking to my promise to not be a rabble rouser. Love you all, bitches.

David

Quote from: srkruzich on August 11, 2011, 02:01:37 PM
I tend to agree with Red on this. Now don't get me wrong, that flag is revered and honored in this house!  And God help the fool that would desecrate one in front of me, cause i'll be going to jail for shoving the flagpole up their ass for it!  But I don't ever pledge allegience to a government.  My allegiance is to my country and only my country.  The words pledge the allegiance to the flag which is a maritime flag. It represents government not a nation in all reality.  The Republic is the Government, not the country and it assigns the flag as a representation of that government not our country.  The part of One nation under God is true, and i do support that. Indivisible not true, we are separate entities of 50 independent sovereigns, coming together as one force. Being that we are independent sovereigns we have all rights to not participate in any event if we so choose so we would be divided on some issues. Liberty is not given from the flag, it is given by God and no one else. The flag represents the lives of those lost defending our God given right of liberty, it represnts  a lot of blood and sacrifice so it is a hallowed flag.  Justice is not a part of the constitutional provisions. Justice is a by product of a republic based on a rule of law so the flag has nothing to do with justice! It was added as a feel good statement to make people feel all warm and fuzzy!

well said and this is exactly how i feel.  Our government is corrupt and has been for a long time.  Too much big money and greed,  the corporations are now running the show.

Quote from: Anmar on August 15, 2011, 12:37:04 AM
well said and this is exactly how i feel.  Our government is corrupt and has been for a long time.  Too much big money and greed,  the corporations are now running the show.

While I may disagree with some of Steve and\or Anmar's  statements on the subject I do agree with the overall theme. The corporations have always been running the show in our lifetimes. We still have influence and power to inflict our will. We just have to vote with our political vote and more importantly vote with our monetary vote, which is much more persuasive, I hope. Otherwise we are doomed to tyranny, which I am unwilling to admit at this point in time. ???

David

well theres three pages of time I'll never get back :P..........good job fellers

Ready---I apologize to YOU for hijacking your thread yesterday. Won't happen again and I won't allow myself to be sucked into that again. I truly am sorry, Ready.-------Jennifer

nah KS.
Hijack is welcome, sometimes the welcome mat gets out to be shook now and again...what is important is not only the subject, as how we argue passionately about it.

not a problem in my book.

ready