I have never been a advocate of wind or solar energy due to the fact its unreliable, but i still will dabble in stocks of these companies primarily because they are usually affordable penny stocks. Most of the time you can play the penny stocks for a while and double your money, sometimes triple or in several cases i've managed to turn a 100 dollar investment into 10,000 dollar investment.
One such Alternative energy package that looked promising was AWNE who showed solid financials when i invested.
I Played the stock and invested 45.00 3 or 4 years ago. Well that 45.00 is now worth 2.95 cents. AWNE is on the verge of going under and is abandoning the wind generation as a viable technology to produce our future electric needs.
Now if Wind is such a viable alternative, how come even with all the government welfare 33 companies have gone belly up trying to bring it to fruition!?
On the same note,
An investment into American oil and Gas 4 years ago at 4.00 per share produced 11.70 a share when at that time Hess Oil Bought the company and converted the stock into HESS stock. The HESS stock was offered at 34.00 per share in the conversion ratio and now is worth 68.54 a share and has been as high as 85.00 a share until the Nitwits up in washington couldn't pull their heads out of their ass's and caused the market to wig out.
BUT unlike the US Governments credit rating, HESS has been rated at a strong buy by Standard and Poors.
Seems to me we are wasting a ton of money in taxpayer funds pushing this Alt energy agenda. Why?
My point is this. I dabble in the alt stocks to make money, not to promote clean this or eco that. Do i lose sometimes. YOU bet! But i win more than I lose! Thats because I don't keep feeding the pig after its done leaned out. Anything else going into it is fat production. INstead of wasting money on producing fat, lets let the market determine the product. It is obvious that Alternative energy solutions are not viable because of the cost. IF it were viable the industry out there would have done it by now and we wouldn't be sinking more tax dollars into keeping it afloat. At some point you have to take the dead patient off life support!
I assume you had a stop loss on that stock?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 31, 2011, 10:08:33 AM
I assume you had a stop loss on that stock?
Actually no. I generally don't. What i normally do is if i buy it and it goes down like that, and their financials look good i'll just wait for it to hit the lowest and start to climb then buy a lot more than that. A few years ago, i bought into a stock that was .10 a share. Got 1000 shares and sat on it. It climbed up to 70 a share and then dropped overnight almost to .06 a share. I waited and it hit .04 a share then i bought 10,000 shares of stock at that price. Sat on it and it went up to 18.75 a share in 2 years. i Sold out on that stock and stuck it in something else. Thats unusual. But when i buy penny stocks, i don't worry about stop loss. Now when that stock went to 18.75 a share, when it originally hit 8.00 a share, i set stop loss on it constantly as it increased. I was in it for the ride to the top. Once it got above 8 a share, it was profit only mode and i set the stop loss at 7 a share, when it went to 10 a share i went to 9 a share. And on and on until when it hit 18.75 i said enough and just dumped it. Honestly i should have kept 1000 shares. It is now at 32.00 a share and stable solid stock. but hey i made my money and was happy. IF only i had a crystal ball!
btw selling that 10000 shares i didn't get nailed for the 39% capital gains tax that was current at that time nor did i get nailed for the 15% state tax or any other taxes. I sold 1/2 the week before jan 1 and the other half after jan 1. Saved me a fortune in taxes! that is one reason i don't set stop loss's. I usually don't have enough in a penny stock to warrant a stop loss sale. BUT i can write off the entire stock in taxes if i let it go to zero. The method i usually use is pick 10 or 20 stocks. Then buy into each one. You end up making money that way.
One of the best stocks to invest in is the QQQQ. That sucker preforms in every economy.
Quotelets let the market determine the product
I think you nailed it on that statement.
Monies are being poured on to 'green'enviornment projects, which sound econmically grand, which most farmers have been doing it for years and aren't making any money at it, however they are happy.
The normal, and I use that term questionably are wanting to drive somewhere, fly somewhere, etc.
(The general population is all about 'me'. I have no statistics for this, it is just an observation.)
In recap: oil wins out over wind. There is more of oil, albeit depleting with usage or the 'bootleggers' of oil will sell over wind
that only a few states that can capture that natural resource.
I love penny ante poker. Good luck with your theories.
ready, counting pennies
I still think areas that have the resources should use what they have available. Some solar, some wind, some water turbines, etc. We have the option here of tidal turbines. Gas, coal and oil where it can be gotten safely should still be used.Trash to steam, thermal turbines etc. It doesn't have to be just one answer.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on July 31, 2011, 01:17:38 PM
I still think areas that have the resources should use what they have available. Some solar, some wind, some water turbines, etc. We have the option here of tidal turbines. Gas, coal and oil where it can be gotten safely should still be used.Trash to steam, thermal turbines etc. It doesn't have to be just one answer.
Well at one time i thought tidal turbines were a good idea. But essentially they are a epic fail. They are white elephants as far as cost to production ratio. Wind turbines and solar are the same. The ONLY alternative energy source that i have seen be cost effective and has dropped the price of energy is nuclear as it doesn't require massive amounts of fuel to produce electricity. It also can be recycled and turned back into fuel when the rods are spent. That is the direction we should go. The next energy source is coal. We have centuries of that untapped then oil. In fact you can turn coal into fuel for vehicles. Thats how versatile it is.
As far as retrieved safely? Nothing is technically safe. There are risks to every venture. I say utilize the most cost effective resources and if the market bears it then venture into the alt market only if it is done so through private enterprise. You want real savings on energy? Try building a geothermal system for your home. IF i were to build a new home right now, i would look for property that had a cave system on it. Then i would tap, drill, boar, excavate into that system. Build my home into that hillside where 3 sides of the lower level are covered by earth with the cave system to the rear, and the exposed side of the house to the south, install 3 or 4 3600cfm fans in the cave to pull air from it into the house. Now i would build my walls 2' thick with logs and mortar. roofing system would be tin with 2" aluminum backed styrofoam. between the styrofoam and tin i would run pex all through the roof system, and use it for a dual porous cooling/heating system. In summer it would cool the roof plus heat the water in your hot water tank. The water would cycle down into the tank (totally separate from the water supply. It would be in a radiator style inset into the hot water tank. THe heat would transfer to the water in the tank and be utilized effectively by reducing the power needed to keep it hot. In the winter time it would be used to heat also. you can do the same thing by also running it into radiators along baseboards. Being that the main function of geothermal would keep the house at a 50 deg temp in summer and winter, you would have no problem heating with the water. It wouldn't take much to bring the temps up or down.
Now that is common sense solution. but you say there aren't caves in all parts of the country. True! BUT.... You can drill well holes down into the ground. 100 -500 foot wells and 5 -10 of them would produce enough volume of cool air to be piped into the house. OR how bout this, dig a trench 500 foot long and line it with 6" pipe. you can loop it so that the house can push the heated air back into the loop and cool it again. Well water is another source of geo thermal. Attach a well to a radiator and loop it back into the ground for a closed loop. The radiator in turn will blow cool air because.... thewater is 50 degrees. a 2" line into a radiator would cook a 1000 square foot home relatively easily.
Interesting read, but Delaware is the only state that has no real caves. I do miss the old hot water radiators in our previous house, very efficient. There is an earth house not far up the road from here. It's built into the side of a hill, underground on three side.
Obviously , Enel and Westar disagree with your portayal of wind energy.
As for geothermal, you don't have to go any deeper than below your basement to get a constant 60 degrees and loop that through your home . Add trombe walls to create the flywheel effect and have very little energy input provided you insulate well. I built homes with this technology 20 years ago.
Quote from: Jefe de vaca on July 31, 2011, 09:02:25 PM
Obviously , Enel and Westar disagree with your portayal of wind energy.
Take away the govt welfare and they'll drop it like a hot potato!
QuoteAs for geothermal, you don't have to go any deeper than below your basement to get a constant 60 degrees and loop that through your home . Add trombe walls to create the flywheel effect and have very little energy input provided you insulate well. I built homes with this technology 20 years ago.
ONLY IF all 4 walls are underground. Not exactly a great way to do it. need that south side exposed for several reasons. Also need your basement above the waterline, not something your going to do easily here without building iinto a hill. Not a whole lot of them around here you know.
Its also cheaper to do the other methods i suggested than sinking 15-20k in concrete in a basement.
I know I'm just goin to be talkin in the wind but I have to say it. There is more at stake than MONEY in this renewable/more environmental approach to our demands for energy. Until the general public COMPREHENDS that then it's all just one more "cash cow" to be used and manipulated to their advantage.
I'm not a jump on the environmental band-wagon yuppie cause it's cool person..........I'm a nuts and bolts practical respect the earth and water cause it's all there is and once it's gone EVERYBODY is gonna die type environmentalist and HAVE been since I was kid. Yes recycling etc. helps but its a drop in the bucket of the real picture which is if we keep polluting at the rate we are there is going to be NO safe water that isnt OWNED by a corporation and rationed by said corporation, keep screwin around with genetically modified and spliced seed and livestock and we are going to be SCREWED BLUED and TATTOOED.......I personally think genetically modified plants are responsible for the bee kills. Dont even get me started on feeding growth hormones and antibiotics to livestock.
Take away the government funds for genetically modified research and THAT would be dropped like a hot potato.....which would be a GOOD thing martha..........
This is my personal engraved in stone opinion :)
WOW, this scares me as this is the second time lately that I have agreed with Pam. I worked several years for an oil operator in Midland, TX that also had a big ranch. Florida Power and Light made a deal to put a large windfarm on his Ranch. Myrna and I drove to it after it was completed, we drove around on it and stopped and sat for awhile. There were Deer browsing around on it, Quail on it there was absolutely no damage to the wildlife. FP&L put in great roads to it and restored any damage done to the surface. I see nothing but good for wind power generated electricity.
Having been some of the meetings with the Oil Operater and FP&L there is no way that I accept that anyone had anything to do with where the Wind Farm will be located in Elk County. My experience with the FP&L people was that they ran lots of tests on several places and from those tests they picked the location they wanted and basically nothing would change their mind. I know that some of the adjoing land owners offered them land for less but they went ahead and paid more to get the location that they had determined to be the ideal location.
As long as the government is subsidizing wind power, it won't be a good thing. This picking and choosing of who gets
public assistance is just plain wrong - at least in these lands. It's just an example of welfare and look whose getting it.
Same with ethanol. Same with anything else.
The government people wanted to make sure everybody got a home and look what happened.
Abolish the Department of Energy.
Think liberty, not democracy. Let's return to the principles of the founding fathers and the Constitution.
Quote from: frawin on August 01, 2011, 07:53:56 AM
. FP&L put in great roads to it and restored any damage done to the surface. I see nothing but good for wind power generated electricity.
Maybe so but they can't sustain their own operations without government welfare. Its not going to get any better. IF ya cut off the government funds they would collapse like a house of cards.
In my opinion anything that reduces our dependence on Foreign oil is a good thing, and windpower does that. If you look at windpower only you are not even beginning to consider the big picture.
Quote from: frawin on August 02, 2011, 07:23:59 AM
In my opinion anything that reduces our dependence on Foreign oil is a good thing, and windpower does that. If you look at windpower only you are not even beginning to consider the big picture.
How is it going to reduce our dependance on oil? Its electricity. We generate our electricity from mostly coal of which we have vast reserves, the next is natural gas, third water and oil is last, used primarily up in the northeast. Shoot we can use recycled oil for that and we probably do. I know i'm working on a home made burner for my shop so i can work out in the shop in winter. I'll just store all the used oil i can get in a barrel and burn it.
The main thing oil is used for is vehicles and machinery and i don't see where wind is going to alleviate that problem. Shrug. Like i said before, we COULD start processing coal into fuel. That would do more to take us off foreign oil than any alternative fuel source. And don't get me started on ethanol. That is just plain wrong! Look at our price of food lately, going up up up because of the subsidized plants and the greed of the farmer. Used to be that farming was a noble thing now they need to change the slogan we feed the world to we fuel the world. Feeding is not even a priority now.
IS it worth jacking food prices out of reach for Americans to get off foreign oil? Hell its cheaper to pay the higher oil prices than to pay the higher food prices.
srkruzich,
With a little research I've found where the Gov't use to pay for 50% of each turbin with out tax dollars. So we wonder why we have a budget crisis. Anyway today they only pay 30% of each turbin supposedly ----- only??
:-[
But do they pay for the removal of the wind turbin grave yards? The good news is the subsidies are going away, I guess that's good news.
Here is an interesting article "Wind Energy's Ghosts" http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/wind_energys_ghosts_1.html
Here are a couple more that you might fine interesting. They have to do with "Wind Energy Companies in the Developed Markets have taken it on the chin in 2010."
http://www.greenworldinvestor.com/2010/10/25/first-wind-holdings-review-and-analysis-pure-play-usa-green-utility-ipo-looks-a-risky-leveraged-bet/
http://www.greenworldinvestor.com/2010/10/30/lack-of-government-support-kills-clipper-while-putting-rest-of-us-wind-industry-in-a-coma/
But hey, let them build on my property and pay me big bucks I'd be okay with that, too. Why would i care if your tax dollars are being used as long as I am making money. Then when they abandon it, I could salvage the junk for scrap metal and make another fortune. Scrap metal is getting high $.
Wind power can be an alternative crop for farmers and ranchers. Many farmers and ranchers are leasing their land to produce electricity. A farmer can be paid $2,000 to $5,000 in royalties per wind turbine, and the farmer can continue to use the land for traditional farming. I bet the present royalties may be even higher today. But at $5,000 X 100= 1/2 million for doing nothing, nice.
Yes, the landowners get good money for the use of their land. So do the owners of the land that has a rock quarry or oil wells. And anyone that has to pay pasture rent can attest to the value of pasture land. What is wrong with a land owner profiting from owning the land that someone else wants to use?
still only seein dollar signs...............................................
I guess it really depends on the state and the way the contract is written. I just finished an article about the oil "industrialization" of North Dakota.They are having a huge economy boom due to their oil and gas, but the way the mineral rights are written some land owners are feeling abused. They apparently get a generous one time compensation for each well drilled, but have no say in how many wells are drilled,where, when, or how badly the drillers clutter up things with supplies and pipe.
Dan Kalil says they set up camp two years ago on his 8,000 acres and are still there. It's a several page article that talks about the impact the $90,000.00 a year the average oil worker makes, to the sudden housing shortages etc. It seems the big oil rigs and support trucks are also taking their toll on the roads, which weren't great to begin with.That Bakken formation is really huge and will supply oil through new and existing pipe lines for many years, but the other side of the coin exists too. I don't have an opinion, just sharing.
Taken from North Dakota's Oil Boom is a Blessing and a Curse. By Ryan Holeywell /Aug 2011, Governing Magazine
It's all about money.
It's not about helping your neighbor.
It's not about recyclable power.
It's simply about money.
It's not about taking care of the environment.
It's about Gov't subsidies and more money.
Anything other than money is a simply a sales job.
See the people Diane is talking about and their oil leases.
It's not about them. It's about how much money the Company can get.
Quote from: Wilma on August 05, 2011, 07:20:17 AM
Yes, the landowners get good money for the use of their land. So do the owners of the land that has a rock quarry or oil wells. And anyone that has to pay pasture rent can attest to the value of pasture land. What is wrong with a land owner profiting from owning the land that someone else wants to use?
Not a thing as long as the taxpayer doesn't fund any part of it.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on August 05, 2011, 08:34:41 AM
I guess it really depends on the state and the way the contract is written. I just finished an article about the oil "industrialization" of North Dakota.They are having a huge economy boom due to their oil and gas, but the way the mineral rights are written some land owners are feeling abused. They apparently get a generous one time compensation for each well drilled, but have no say in how many wells are drilled,where, when, or how badly the drillers clutter things up with supplies and pipe. Dan Kalil says they set up camp two years ago on his 8,000 acres and are still there. It's a several page article that talks about the impact the $90,000.00 a year the average oil worker makes, to the sudden housing shortages etc. It seems the big oil rigs and support trucks are also taking their toll on the roads, which weren't great to begin with.That Bakken formation is really huge and will supply oil through new and existing pipe lines for many years, but the other side of the coin exists too. I don't have an opinion, just sharing.
Taken from North Dakota's Oil Boom is a Blessing and a Curse. By Ryan Holeywell /Aug 2011, Governing Magazine
Thats handled in the contracts signed. I know my family homestead has coal under it. They came and made a offer for it and we stiplulated the contract to get it. They could only do 1/2 at a time, they had to restore the farm as it was when they mined it and they could not use crap to backfill they had to bring in good soil. once 1/2 was fully restored, then they were offered the other half. THey haven't mined the other half yet.
I have a good friend that lives near Wingate, Texas. He does not have a Wind turbine( s ) on his ranch but they are some just "across the fence" every month he gets a check for the wind IF it blew across his place to turn the blades. He said it was all computerized to know when the wind blew from his direction. He also said his monthly check didn't amount to much but better than a swift kick. Does the Elk county, soon to be wind farm, have provisions like that or are adjoining land owners just SOL ?
Quote from: jarhead on August 05, 2011, 02:20:38 PM
I have a good friend that lives near Wingate, Texas. He does not have a Wind turbine( s ) on his ranch but they are some just "across the fence" every month he gets a check for the wind IF it blew across his place to turn the blades. He said it was all computerized to know when the wind blew from his direction. He also said his monthly check didn't amount to much but better than a swift kick. Does the Elk county, soon to be wind farm, have provisions like that or are adjoining land owners just SOL ?
LOL now imagine if he just got a onery streak and started hauling dirt and stuff and makin a pile to divert the wind
LOL.
Onery ? No Steve, ornery does not even begin to describe this man. Mean'rn a junk yard dog would describe him better---he was my senior drill instructor back in "68". If them ol towers ever pee him off he will yank their blades off and sh--------------- you catch my drift !! :D
Quote from: jarhead on August 05, 2011, 04:31:48 PM
Onery ? No Steve, ornery does not even begin to describe this man. Mean'rn a junk yard dog would describe him better---he was my senior drill instructor back in "68". If them ol towers ever pee him off he will yank their blades off and sh--------------- you catch my drift !! :D
Target practice!
Quote from: jarhead on August 05, 2011, 04:31:48 PM
Onery ? No Steve, ornery does not even begin to describe this man. Mean'rn a junk yard dog would describe him better---he was my senior drill instructor back in "68". If them ol towers ever pee him off he will yank their blades off and sh--------------- you catch my drift !! :D
one of these should suffice...
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/mk19mod3.jpg)