http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Expanded-protection-area-stifles-wind-farm-plans-1380732.php (http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Expanded-protection-area-stifles-wind-farm-plans-1380732.php)
Way to screw up Brownback! I cant believe he would expand the off limits area farther south....
>:(
Does this affect the one that was supposed to go up west of Howard?
I saw a map of the project. It looks like the one west of Howard has already been purchased and won't affect it. Can't say I'm all that upset that he won't allow any more expansion. Sort of ruins the look of the flint hills to have them littered with wind turbines. Not that looking at all the pretty red lights at Christmas time over on the hill at night isn't relaxing or anything, but seeing one wind farm is enough for me.
It doesn't affect the Caney River Wind Project, the one under construction on Eagle Head, except that it will not be allowed to expand in the future. The Elk River Project south of Beaumont will not be allowed to expand into Elk County as had been planned.
From today's Wichita Eagle:
Quote
County plans
Elk River Wind Facility, which has been in Beaumont in southeastern Butler County since 2005, is the only one of the state's eight existing wind farms that operates within the area. It will remain, but won't follow through on plans to expand by building 25 more turbines in nearby Elk County.
The Caney River Wind Project in Elk County won't begin operation until next year. It can continue because it's the only proposed facility that has an agreement with a utility to purchase power.
The revised protected area appears to affect only two or three proposed plants.
A second wind farm in Elk County, just east of Howard, won't happen. Developer Gamesa Energy had paid for leases up through this summer, a county official said.
Marion County isn't sure what's going to happen with its early plans for a wind farm. Marion businessman Rex Savage obtained a conditional-use permit for the project from the county earlier this year. The site appears to be outside the west border, U.S. 77, but Savage said he would need more time to verify that.
Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2011/05/15/1849731/expansion-of-protected-area-kills.html#ixzz1MTXMsaCP
Also, keep in mind that this designation of "The Tallgrass Heartland" is completely voluntary:
Quote
The plan is voluntary for wind companies and isn't enforceable by the state, the companies and state officials agree. It took effect the day it was announced, needing no further approval from the Legislature or a state agency.
Existing wind farms and proposed ones that have an agreement to sell power to a utility are allowed to continue in the area. They won't be allowed to expand, although existing transmission lines can be upgraded.
Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2011/05/15/1849731/expansion-of-protected-area-kills.html#ixzz1MTYTf9oD
But I kind of doubt any wind development company is going to push the envelope in the future.
As for local input, I'm sure at least one prominent Elk County land owner had the Governor's ear on this one - a certain Mr. Tom Devlin.
Is Tom Devlin against the wind farms or something? I do know for a fact that that wind farm by Beaumont was fought hot and heavy by Dave Murfin who owns land right there near it.
I would like to know, where in Elk County is the tall grass? I am pretty well acquainted with the northwest corner of Elk County and I have yet to see anything that could be called tall grass. Why is Elk County included in this ban and why didn't the governour consult with the counties that he added to the ban? It seems to me that the people affected were not considered.
As I understand it and I think it was posted here on the Forum somewhere that Tom Devlin was at some meeting about the Caney Valley project, handing out information about what the project could possibly do to the environment.
Where's the Tall Grass?
(http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad256/waldoegray/flinthills.gif)
Here is a map of the Flint Hills.
At the web site for Geo Kansas, increasing the size of the picture shows just a tiny bit of yellow in NW Elk County.
Does the yellow indicate the presence of Tall Grass? or what is actually the Flint Hills. Only a tiny portion of the northwest corner of Elk County is yellow and Chautauqua County shows none at all, yet they are included in the ban.
It seems to me that the governour has effectively stopped economic development in Elk County and pushed it to western Kansas. I wonder why.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2007/04/tallgrass-prairie/klinkenborg-text
National Geographic says the Flint Hills are the nation's last great expanse of tall grass.
That link isn't current. Here is a link to the site with a PDF download of the whole Tallgrass project. From what I've seen on the KDWP site, they've been taking names to save the Tallgrass project since 2008, I think it was? Anyway, here's the site: http://www2.ljworld.com/documents/2011/may/06/tallgrass-heartland/
I don't think the government has to "ask" counties to protect what they consider something that needs to be protected. Kind of dirty I agree, but then when has government ever been honest?
Waldo's map comprises the Flint Hills physiographic region of Kansas. It conforms with this map:
http://www.kgs.ku.edu/Physio/physio.html
which shows all of the physiographic regions of Kansas.
The Governor's Tallgrass Heartland includes parts of other physiographic regions: Osage Cuestas, Chautauqua Hills, and the Glaciated Region. I am trying to find a link to an even more detailed map that I believe I have posted on here before.
Let us not get into an argument over the definition of the 'Tallgrass' on here, please. Exactly what is meant by Tallgrass Heartland is open to interpretation, since many different organizations have created many different maps, some based purely on surface geography, some taking into account geology, some utilizing satelite and aerial photography to delineate based on land use, and others using flora and fauna to make the determination.
In my opinion, the area of consternation should be the way in which the Governors office held meetings with the wind energy company's trade organization, utility companies (read Westar) and landowners (probably the likes of Tom Devlin, the Bass Brothers, the Koch Brothers, and other large land owners, most of whom have direct or indirect connections to the fossil fuels energy industry), etc.; yet caught the elected commissioners and state legislators from the region completely off guard with this announcement.
Lovely map - thanks!
Here's the link to the map I was talking about. It was developed in 2001 by many Federal and state agencies in Kansas and Nebraska: Okay, something was wrong with the format of that link - try going to this page and then clicking on the first image.
http://www.epa.gov/wed/pages/ecoregions/ksne_eco.htm#Please
"This poster is the product of a collaborative effort primarily between the US EPA Region VII, the US EPA National
Health and Environmental Effects Research Laboratory (Corvallis, Oregon), the Nebraska Department of Environmental Quality (NDEQ), the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission (NGPC), the Kansas Biological Survey (KBS), the Kansas Geological Survey (KGS), the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, Division of Environment (KDHE), Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks (KDWP), the United States Department of Agriculture - Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) (formerly the Soil Conservation Service), and the United States Department of the Interior - U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) - Earth Resources Observation Systems (EROS) Data Center."
"This project is associated with an interagency effort to develop a common framework of ecological regions. . . . Regional collaborative projects such as this one in Nebraska and Kansas, where agreement can be reached among multiple resource management agencies, is a step in the direction of attaining commonality and consistency in ecoregion frameworks for the entire nation."
You will notice a large chunk of what has been classified Osage Cuestas in the past, is now classified as part of the Flint Hills, including large sections of Elk and Chautauqua counties, and nearly all of Greenwood.
I couldn't get to this last link, but I got to the one before and it still shows only a tiny bit of the northwest corner of Elk County as being in the Flint Hills. The rest of the county is Osage Cuestas and Chautauqua Hills. Not that it makes any difference. The governour has declared a ban on economic development in Elk County and he did it in the underhanded way of every good politician. Pushing the benefit of it to his own country.
Please would someone explain to me how wind farms are detrimental to the eco system.
I edited the link to the newer map. Please try again. As for how windfarms affect the ecosystem . . .
To me the question is "How does a windfarm affect the ecosystem compared to the effects of oil and gas exploration and production on the same ecosystem?"
The short answer - Urbanites from KC, Topeka, Wichita and elsewhere don't see the oil and gas wells (and lease roads) that cover vast expanses of the "pristine" Flint Hills/Tallgrass Prairie as they wizz through on I-70, I-35, the KTA, US 400, etc. They also don't seem to mind all of the cell towers that dot the same area. But, put up a windfarm and all of a sudden the "pristine" prairie has been sullied, simply because they have changed the 'viewshed'.
Keep in mind the "Conservation Easements" that are becoming more common on land.
The Fed's are involved in many of these Conservation Easements. They're gonna tie-up more
and more land.
http://cjonline.com/legislature/2011-05-06/brownback-widens-shield-flint-hills
QuoteSaving the ecological character and ranching culture of the tallgrass prairie from development will help preserve a state treasure for future Kansans, said Ron Klataske, executive director of the Audubon of Kansas.
"It is reflective of the interests of most residents within the Flint Hills," he said.
I'm glad that the Kansas Audubon director went around and polled every resident in Elk, Chautauqua, and Cowley counties - how else could he know that "It is relfective of the interests of most residents within the Flint Hills."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/may/06/brownback-expands-area-keep-out-commercial-wind-fa/
QuoteAllan Pollom, state director of The Nature Conservancy, commended Brownback for "his thoughtful and balanced approach. He has reminded us all, as Kansans, of the honor we share as stewards of the last great stand of tallgrass prairie."
Isn't it nice that the Nature Conservancy believes that "us all, as Kansans" are stewards of the tallgrass prairie - not the owners of the land, or even the residents of the counties in which it exists.
Yeah, well the NC is controlling a lot of land and seeking more. They're even buying up land, then selling a Conservation Easement to the Fed's.
You all want more Federal Government control and involvement? Looks like you're gonna get more of it.
The founding fathers never intended such by the Fed's including the "non-profits" such as NC. Just another
consequence of the federal income tax system which was never meant to be.
Red, what does all that have to do with this thread?
Yeah, this is not good for Elk county and surrounding areas... the first glimmer of hope for new economic activity and it looks like it's going to be ending before it even starts.
Anyone talked to Jeff King? Who's our state rep now since King is now in the senate?
Rep. Jim Kelly, Dist. 12
Capitol Office
Room: DSOB
Seat: 41
Phone: 785-296-6014
Email:jim.kelly@house.ks.gov
Home Information
309 S. 5th
Independence, Kansas 67301
Phone: 620-331-7874
Business Information
Occupation: Banker
Other Information
Spouse: Eloise Kelly
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sen. Jeff King, Dist. 15
Capitol Office
Room: 237-E
Seat: 15
Phone: 785-296-7398
Email:Jeff.King@senate.ks.gov
Home Information
1212 North Second Street
Independence, Kansas 67301
Phone: 620-331-9888
Fax: 620-331-9888
Email:jeffkingks@hotmail.com
Business Information
Occupation: Attorney
Phone: 620-714-1881
Other Information
Spouse: Kimberly King
The actual announcement from the Governor's office:
https://governor.ks.gov/frontpagenews/2011/05/06/road-map-for-wind-energy-policy
Quote from: Wilma on May 16, 2011, 05:13:03 PM
Red, what does all that have to do with this thread?
Because anytime you lose a right to property, I.E. leasing your land expanding a business like a windfarm, GOVERNMENT ALWAYS has its hand in it. AND THE ONLY WAY it can get its hand in it is when folks take the trinkets the Government has to offer. AKA subsidies, welfare, ect ect ect.....
Quote from: MarkHall on May 16, 2011, 05:17:24 PM
Yeah, this is not good for Elk county and surrounding areas... the first glimmer of hope for new economic activity and it looks like it's going to be ending before it even starts.
Anyone talked to Jeff King? Who's our state rep now since King is now in the senate?
I got a question for ya Mark. OUTSIDE of the landowner making a awesome tax exempt profit, and outside of a few jobs being produced during the construction, and when it is finally completed, what economic activity would benefit the county?? They aren't even selling the power in Kansas, its being piped to TVA in Tennessee, and there won't be but less than 50 jobs for maint folks. No money is going to be spent in the county unless your only counting the measly million they are paying in lieu of the corporate tax the county could be generating along with the tax increase on the lands that the towers are built on.
I'd say elk county got the shaft either way.
Steve,
1. The lease payments to the landowners are just like those paid by oil and gas companies - they are taxable income.
2. I wouldn't call 200 plus construction jobs 'a few'. Those workers are and will be spending money on food, lodging, gas, etc. while they are working on the towers. Granted, not all of this will occur within Elk County, but a very large percentage will.
3. Elk County needs any and all possible employment opportunities. Whatever the number of maintenance jobs is, they are certainly not to be scoffed at.
4. Doesn't matter where the power is going, it's putting money into Elk County and the surrounding area. Westar had their chance to purchase the power and turned it down flatly.
5. A 'measly million'? Come on! It's a hell of a lot more than Butler County got for the Elk River (Beaumont) Project, a sure as hell better than a kick in the pants! And there is no 'corporate tax', never has been on wind power in Kansas. That could change in the future, and if it does, then Elk County will collect ad valorem on the wind farm instead of the PILOT.
When is the last time anything brought this kind of economic activity into the county? Building the watershed lakes did in the 70's and 80's, but there weren't but one or two permanent jobs created. The workers that built the new K-99 from Howard to Severy pumped a little bit into the area, as was documented by a slight bump in sales tax collections during the period.
One store owner has already told me more money is being spent in her store.
I agree it is more than the $159,000.00 that Butler County gets. Just curious which way Dave Murfin owns land from the Elk River Wind Farm. 5 jobs beats none all to smitherines. I sick of this scenery thing. Don't put up a new barn 'cause it ruins my view. GET REAL! I'm sure someone padded Brownback's pocket.
Quote from: greatguns on May 16, 2011, 08:55:27 PM
I agree it is more than the $159,000.00 that Butler County gets. Just curious which way Dave Murfin owns land from the Elk River Wind Farm. 5 jobs beats none all to smitherines. I sick of this scenery thing. Don't put up a new barn 'cause it ruins my view. GET REAL! I'm sure someone padded Brownback's pocket.
I believe Dave Murfin owned land adjacent to the wind farm on the north side or thereabouts. I used to work for Dave Murfin and remember his secretary talking about it. He doesn't live out here, but owns, or did own, the land there and didn't want the view ruined with the wind turbines. He obviously lost that battle because they're there. But his view would have changed A LOT since he's right there beside them, but since he doesn't live out there, not sure why it mattered other than a drop in property value I would suppose.
I can see the million dollars that will be paid to the county for the next 20 years to be tempting, but how many people will this employ permanently? Will the people that are hired to build it even be local? I realize the wind farm going up west of Howard is bigger than the one by Beaumont, but the one by Beaumont only hired 6 people. And the reasons they allowed the wind farm is very very much the same reasons Elk county has......jobs, tourism, money coming into the county, etc, etc. But honestly, I have yet to see very many people go by there to see it, in fact, of all the times I've been over there I never see anyone and the hotel/restaurant in Beaumont still closed over the winter, so it didn't help them all that much. The building of it won't last forever and so that is a very temporary income. Even the money coming into the county is temporary when you view 20 years in light of forever. Just wondering what people will think 100 years from now when the wind farm is still standing there, but there's no more money coming off of it except to the land owners? Even if that power was going to the people of Elk county, that would be something. But 40, 50, 70 years from now, what will it be? Will it hire enough employees to support the people of Elk county? Or will they hire people from out of area?
Just questions. :)
Oh, and in passing, here's the link to the full story posted by the Wichita Eagle on it.
http://www.kansas.com/2011/05/15/1849731/expansion-of-protected-area-kills.html
For those who have bought into the million dollar Elk County windfall, that's probably wrong. Let's clear it up....
The 'nameplate' capacity of Phase 1 at the Caney River Project is 150 megawatts. The agreement the county signed was for a 1st year payment of $4500 per megawatt. That would be $675,000 not 1 million. 32% less than some folks have been led to believe. Commissioner Liebau continued to propagate the million dollar myth in his quote to the Eagle in just the last day or two. Math must not be a strong suit.
If Phase 2 were completed and brought online in the year after Phase 1, the maximum nameplate capacity would be 200 megawatts. The second year payment is something like $4590 per megawatt (2% increase over year 1) or $918,000. If Phase 2 is not online, the payment in year two would be $688,500.
Based on the wind project developer's public statements, the total benefit to 'Elk County' via payments in lieu of taxes and landowner leases will be on the order of $3,000,000 total. So the county gets $675,000 and the 15 or so landowners get about $2,325,000. One of the largest 'landowners' is a family partnership with several family corporations & trusts as partners.
Now, can we stop the 1 million dollar rumor... it's misleading.
Quote from: Sarah on May 16, 2011, 09:43:33 PM
I realize the wind farm going up west of Howard is bigger than the one by Beaumont, but the one by Beaumont only hired 6 people.
I think the Beaumont farm is 150 megawatts, or about the same size as Phase 1 of the Caney River project. I know of only 2 or 3 local folk who have been hired. It's likely management/supervisory personnel won't be local. Not what one would call a major employer.
Quote from: Patriot on May 16, 2011, 10:07:20 PM
Based on the wind project developer's public statements, the total benefit to 'Elk County' via payments in lieu of taxes and landowner leases will be on the order of $3,000,000 total. So the county gets $675,000 and the 15 or so landowners get about $2,325,000. One of the largest 'landowners' is a family partnership with several family corporations & trusts as partners.
Now, can we stop the 1 million dollar rumor... it's misleading. So it should say $3,000,000.
. Local infusion of 2.325 million dollars is a lot more then we had in the county last year.
I am sure based on your religious research on older well established landowners they tend to be pretty fly by night group. They don't ever give back to the community, they will pull up stakes and move on to greener pastures where there are less industry, and they never spend any money on Capitol improvements. No loans will be paid on, no fence will be purchased, and no land improvements will be done with the 2million. No one will get hired and all with jobs will be let go after the dispersal auctions.
It will all go directly to the casino.
Ross the newspaper won't need your subscription next year because there will be a huge delinquent tax list published for the next 20 years with pages and pages of unpaid property taxes notices. Rudy will retire on the windfall.
In the real world I can see more economic activity now then I ever have in the area. Every building or garage that can be used for housing is full. You can't rent anything. You can not park on the main drag because every parking space is full.
You can be as pessimistic as you want to be. The glass is half full.
I don't get any money from the current wind farm and I don't have a problem with those that do. I also don't receive any money from the oil wells underneath the turbines and sinces I don't own the land, I guess I shouldn't. Nor do I get any money from the cattle the landowner has. It is their land and I think it should be their business what goes on it.
Quote from: Patriot on May 16, 2011, 10:12:03 PM
I think the Beaumont farm is 150 megawatts, or about the same size as Phase 1 of the Caney River project. I know of only 2 or 3 local folk who have been hired. It's likely management/supervisory personnel won't be local. Not what one would call a major employer.
This is not going to be very significant. That is only $16,400,725 for the insignificant little poverty flats called Elk county over the next twenty years. At a minimum $46,500,000 for the lease holders. Instead of that piddly sum I can see it now a fifty million dollar trail ride outfit. Tours of the old ghost towns of Winfield and Burden. Grave sites along the trail with little pinwheels shaped like wind turbines. Pasture golf on Pasafinos. Cow chip throwing contests. Gun fights.
Quote from: Patriot on May 16, 2011, 10:07:20 PM
For those who have bought into the million dollar Elk County windfall, that's probably wrong. Let's clear it up....
The 'nameplate' capacity of Phase 1 at the Caney River Project is 150 megawatts. The agreement the county signed was for a 1st year payment of $4500 per megawatt. That would be $675,000 not 1 million. 32% less than some folks have been led to believe. Commissioner Liebau continued to propagate the million dollar myth in his quote to the Eagle in just the last day or two. Math must not be a strong suit.
If Phase 2 were completed and brought online in the year after Phase 1, the maximum nameplate capacity would be 200 megawatts. The second year payment is something like $4590 per megawatt (2% increase over year 1) or $918,000. If Phase 2 is not online, the payment in year two would be $688,500.
Based on the wind project developer's public statements, the total benefit to 'Elk County' via payments in lieu of taxes and landowner leases will be on the order of $3,000,000 total. So the county gets $675,000 and the 15 or so landowners get about $2,325,000. One of the largest 'landowners' is a family partnership with several family corporations & trusts as partners.
Now, can we stop the 1 million dollar rumor... it's misleading.
Is that $3,000,000 total over the next 20 years? or is that $3 mil the total that could accumulate at any one time? $3,000,000 total for something that's going to be standing there for years and years and years doesn't seem like much and 3 jobs sure isn't much either. I don't know. If people want to draw in money to the county, open up A LOT of jobs and bring in a lot of tax dollars, then bring in a super Wal-Mart!
Thanks for posting that anyway. I wondered what "close to a million dollars" meant in the article.
close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Wanna bet it will be nowhere near a million by the time its all counted and settled.
Quote from: ADP on May 17, 2011, 12:41:11 AM
Local infusion of 2.325 million dollars is a lot more then we had in the county last year.
I am sure based on your religious research on older well established landowners they tend to be pretty fly by night group. They don't ever give back to the community, they will pull up stakes and move on to greener pastures where there are less industry, and they never spend any money on Capitol improvements. No loans will be paid on, no fence will be purchased, and no land improvements will be done with the 2million. No one will get hired and all with jobs will be let go after the dispersal auctions.
It will all go directly to the casino.
Dayum partner. Didn't hit a nerve, did we? Casino? Your share maybe, but not the bulk of it.
Stop with the self righteous BS. Since you've obviously done the projections... tell us how much of that 2.325 mill will be going directly to long term new employment? Starting a new factory here? How much to P & J's? About what percentage to to the restaurants in Longton? How much to directly promote tourism here and expose Elk to the outside world? How much will be directly donated (given without expectation of a return) to help local governments and businesses make much needed infrastructure improvements? How much to directly fund youth activities in lieu of taxpayer funds? How much to outside suppliers of fencing material? How much to investment funds on wall street? How much to buy out other locals at pennies on the dollar when increased property taxes or reduced property values finally kill their operations? In God we trust...all others pay cash. Show me the fruit and I'll tell you how good the tree is. Time will tell.
Giving back to the community isn't putting up a new gate or fence at your place or negotiating a new cost share grant that the taxpayers are hooked for 40% of or paying off debts you incurred or carving out a private fishing lake in the back yard or putting in new cattle paddocks on the back 40. The only real give back I've seen recently is the park and walkway behind the care home in Howard... That was donated, wasn't it? Those older well established landowners your talking about have
given what, exactly? Some of us were born at night, just not
last night.
Oh, and don't edit my quotes. Let your words be your own.
Now can we get back to the myth that the PILOT amount is 1 mill in the first year?
Quote from: ADP on May 17, 2011, 12:41:11 AM
In the real world I can see more economic activity now then I ever have in the area. Every building or garage that can be used for housing is full. You can't rent anything. You can not park on the main drag because every parking space is full.
If you count fancy private farm workshops placed for highway show n tell miles from the farm, absolutely. Have you counted the number of houses for sale in the villages in this county lately? Or how about that 24900 sq ft empty building in Longton? Now that woulda made a nice farm shop.
Quote from: greatguns on May 17, 2011, 01:51:03 AM
I don't get any money from the current wind farm and I don't have a problem with those that do. I also don't receive any money from the oil wells underneath the turbines and sinces I don't own the land, I guess I shouldn't. Nor do I get any money from the cattle the landowner has. It is their land and I think it should be their business what goes on it.
You're right guns. It shouldn't ever be about
how much. The
how is another matter entirely. Sunshine is a good thing.
The "how much" is what the commissioners are going to decide when they have completed their study of where it could best be spent to benefit Elk County. I still don't understand all the hullabaloo over something that isn't even in the coffers yet.
How about instead of tearing everything apart, coming up with some ideas about where the money should go to benefit the county? Have any of you naysayers had a positive thought about this? The payments, whatever they may come to, seem to be a certainty. Does it matter that they won't come up to the One Million that has been stated as a starting point? It is still a windfall for Elk County and we taxpayers are not having to pay up to raise it.
I know there have been a whole lot of ideas expressed, some of them doable and some not, but all of them have been shouted down as "what"? What is your reason for not wanting Elk County to be improved?
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 07:19:54 AM
What is your reason for not wanting Elk County to be improved?
We want the county improved. The integrity and means are at question. I would have thought you would have seen that by now as those points have been stated several times.
Quote from: ADP on May 17, 2011, 02:27:23 AM
This is not going to be very significant.
I said significant
employer. Try reading before you jump, will ya? Lest somebody think you're all about the short term money gain and not the real long term growth of the county and opportunity for
all of its' occupants & businesses. Now, if the county & landowners are going to distribute their new revenues directly to those who might, under other conditions be employed, then that's a horse of a different color... we call it charity when private individuals do it, welfare when the government does it. But, either way, it's not gainful employment, is it?
Tell us again about all the new main street renovations, new local home construction, new residents, new students, new businesses & new jobs we're seeing (or going to see) in Elk County. But please try to avoid the Obama style of hopey-changey rhetoric that leads us to think that the big money from this project will somehow replace the need of individuals to grow their businesses, work, put food on the table, purchase a decent place to live and pay their bills. It won't, and we both know it. All that money, just by its' presence in the bank or conversion to new fence, does little. Show us the details of the bigger picture. Sell us something tangible other than the dollars. Just think, if we had put the taxpayers on the hook for $5.5 million in bonds like you & yours pushed for a couple of years back, we would have had a new building and a $5.5 million debt to repay to investors in the worst economy since the 1930's. Well, Elk & some Elk landowners are now getting about 3/5 that much in the next year or so... will we be seeing a new school donated any time soon? Or a new factory that will employ 50 or 60 or more, perhaps? Or will we see lots of new fences & gates? Please, share the future plans for Elk County.
New management, honest brokering, clear realistic goals, fresh attitudes and careful planning might promote positive change, but when it's all about the money coming in, corruption and damaged dreams usually aren't far away. I'm reminded of an old truth:
The love of money is the root of all evil.
My reference to the measly million a year, and it appears its nowhere close to that, 600k a year, wouldn't even begin to start industry coming into the county. IF you want real progress, your going to have to build it up. Make companies want to come to elk to do business. Only problem is no infrastructure, very little if any qualified employee pool to hire from, Forget factories, and manufacturing, that's not feasible in a Information Society, the INdustrial age petered out 20 years ago.
South Dakota was a good example of local folks small town, people that got together and created a large corporation to do worldwide business. They even shipped their product out in a white box with black spots resembling holstein cows. Gateway computer resurrected many communities in that state.
IF your going to bring the standard of living up and jobs, new people to elk, thats whats going to have to happen. Its going to take someone that has money to back someone that has the know how. Its rare that you find someone with the know how that has the money to start it up.
Quote from: srkruzich on May 17, 2011, 11:28:53 AM
Forget factories, and manufacturing, that's not feasible in a Information Society, the INdustrial age petered out 20 years ago.
So a YMCA, senior center, golf course, exercise room and Olympic sized swimmin hole ain't gonna do it? Drats!
Quote from: Patriot on May 17, 2011, 11:49:23 AM
So a YMCA, senior center, golf course, exercise room and Olympic sized swimmin hole ain't gonna do it? Drats!
well it takes people that have money to go to the YMCA at 50 bucks a month, Golf course isn't cheap either. Heck green fees rank right up there around 100 dollars or more. OLympic pool? Really? For whom?? Shoot, the existing pool they have you can't do nothing but wade in it. a couple years ago i went off the diving board, DIVING, doing a back flip and damn near got crucified by the administration. They jumped all over me for setting a bad example for the kids. Shook my head thinking what a sad world this is when you have idiots running things and stopping kids from learning how to dive or swim and i wondered how in the hell kids today prepared for olympic sports if they are not allowed to do things like diving off the board.
Patriot, that's right and drats it is.
But hold your horses a moment. If you were receiving almost a million dollars in the next year or two, would you know right off the bat what you were going to do with it. That is what the meeting was about, to see what the citizens of Elk County thought was the most important needs. That decision cannot be made until all aspects are considered. I repeat, if you are going to get your Hanes into a twist, spare us your agony. Go home, take them off and go bare-*** naked if you want to. I am tired of hearing about it.
Patrick is not the right one to talk to about not doing anything to grow your businesses. He and Julie is what is keeping this community alive by providing the biggest service a community needs. A grocery store and pharmacy.
Also, the 5.5 million debt for a new school would not have been a 5.5 million debt to Elk County as grants would have taken care of a lot of it, but we didn't wait to find out about that, did we? Let's just keep Elk County the way it is so we won't have to put up with newcomers or change our ways. It has worked for 50 years. Why change it.
Steve is right about one thing, it is going to take more than what this windfall is bringing in to bring new industry to Elk County. Too much has to be fixed before new industry will be interested in this area.
Steve, which is more important, the safety of our kids or that they become Olympic champions? Elk County or the City of Howard, who actually owns the pool cannot afford the kind of pool that YMCAs have. We thought we were lucky to get this one way back in the mid 60s
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 12:40:21 PM
Steve, which is more important, the safety of our kids or that they become Olympic champions?
What is more important is that kids get to experience life without all the bubble wrap. This country has bubblewrapped kids in that they can't deal with any kind of event. Psychologically or physically. Physically everyone is so dang afraid of a kid getting hurt but thats part of life. What the heck is the kid going to do when their 18 and they go to do things without mommy and daddy and government bubblewrapping them so they don't get hurt.
Sheesh my boys grew up and had fun. I encouraged them to do all kinds of things. couple of my boys climbed rock walls freestyle for years since they were 12 years old. They climbed trees from 5 year old up til they discovered rock walls and these trees were every bit of 50 -100 foot tall.
Stuck em in go carts at 7 and let them go for it, then they got on 4wheelers and many a time they rolled them. They had broken bones, skinned up legs arms bodies, couple concussions, but they were tough. Had my oldest one day went out to catch a pass of the football and ran head first into the mailbox. LITERALLY hit the mailbox with his head. I was standing there watching with a friend of mine and when josh got up, i looked at my friend and said wow that had to of hurt. Now josh is a marine. Hard headed as usual.
Diving boards are ment for one thing. Thats diving. Learn how to dive and guess what, you can have a lot of fun and not get hurt. I was 10 years old diving off a high dive. Low board high board, pool side, used to do front flips, back flips back flips with double twists, and you don't learn all that by being bubble wrapped.
Heck, when the boys used to get hurt and come crying, i'd tell them is it broken? are ya bleeding? if they said no, then i said stop that wailing and get back to having fun. When they got into fights, there were a few bloody noses and lips, couple times broken arms from falling while they tussled around, the only rule was they couldn't use anything other than their fists. Todays kids don't know how to settle something and go on with their day without having to go see a trauma councellor.
QuoteElk County or the City of Howard, who actually owns the pool cannot afford the kind of pool that YMCAs have. We thought we were lucky to get this one way back in the mid 60s
I don't doubt it. But what pool you do have, you can't do squat but wade in it. Thats pitiful when you can't even swim in it for fear some kid might actually learn how to swim
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 12:40:21 PM
Patriot, that's right and drats it is.
But hold your horses a moment. If you were receiving almost a million dollars in the next year or two, would you know right off the bat what you were going to do with it. That is what the meeting was about, to see what the citizens of Elk County thought was the most important needs. That decision cannot be made until all aspects are considered. I repeat, if you are going to get your Hanes into a twist, spare us your agony. Go home, take them off and go bare-*** naked if you want to. I am tired of hearing about it.
Right off? The PILOT agreement was signed on Dec 31, 2008. It was pretty much known how much was at stake at that time. Don't tell me that in 2.5 years there hasn't already been some serious planning for its' use. And why is a private company, founded by those in government who negotiated for the wind farm (and likely its' precise location largely on their own family land) needed to perform the functions of government in determining the best use of that PILOT money. For the umpteenth time, government officials need to do the jobs we hired them for. Not run off and start a private company to do it for them. Unless you buy into one commissioner's excuse that 'they don't want to listen to all the 'bitching' by the citizens that elected them. The commissioner's word, not mine.
What is this obsession you have with mens underwear? And if you're tire of reading it, maybe there's something good on TV. But until honest, factual answers are forthcoming, the the questions aren't gonna go away.
quote from Patriot :
What is this obsession you have with mens underwear? And if you're tired of reading it, maybe there's something good on TV
Patriot, Now there's a funny one. Made my day :)
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 12:40:21 PM
Patriot, that's right and drats it is.
But hold your horses a moment. If you were receiving almost a million dollars in the next year or two, would you know right off the bat what you were going to do with it. That is what the meeting was about, to see what the citizens of Elk County thought was the most important needs. That decision cannot be made until all aspects are considered. I repeat, if you are going to get your Hanes into a twist, spare us your agony. Go home, take them off and go bare-*** naked if you want to. I am tired of hearing about it.
Patrick is not the right one to talk to about not doing anything to grow your businesses. He and Julie is what is keeping this community alive by providing the biggest service a community needs. A grocery store and pharmacy.
Also, the 5.5 million debt for a new school would not have been a 5.5 million debt to Elk County as grants would have taken care of a lot of it, but we didn't wait to find out about that, did we? Let's just keep Elk County the way it is so we won't have to put up with newcomers or change our ways. It has worked for 50 years. Why change it.
Steve is right about one thing, it is going to take more than what this windfall is bringing in to bring new industry to Elk County. Too much has to be fixed before new industry will be interested in this area.
Steve, which is more important, the safety of our kids or that they become Olympic champions? Elk County or the City of Howard, who actually owns the pool cannot afford the kind of pool that YMCAs have. We thought we were lucky to get this one way back in the mid 60s
I think the best answers I read was to pay down debt. No industry will come to this county because the tax burden is too high, of course the tax burden is high because there's no industry to tax. At any rate, pay off debts to take the load off citizens and lower the tax base. That would go a long ways to not only putting more money in the hands of the people to spend in the county or build in the county or whatever, but would also lower the tax which would go at least a little ways in sweetening the deal for this area for businesses and industry.
There's my .02. ;D
Patriot:
That pilot agreement was signed on the contingency that the company could sell the power. At that time they did not have a buyer. If they couldn't find a buyer, there would be no payment. Also, there was some opposition to having a wind farm in Elk County at all. I don't know just when the decision to go ahead was made, but it hasn't been 2 and a half years.
What proof do you have that a private company was formed by those in government who negotiated for the wind farm ( and likely it's precise location on it's own family land) needed to perform the functions in government needed to determine the best use of that PILOT money? Do you know the precise location of the proposed wind farm and who the landowners are that are involved? Why don't you name names? If you are right there would be no grounds for slander.
Where is your proof? You are the one that is asking questions and making accusations. Give us something other than insinuations and opinions.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with the nearly $400,000 in campaign contributions that the oil and gas industry has given directly to Sen Brownback. When you continue to send corrupt politicians to Washington, you have nobody to blame but yourselves.
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 05:11:46 PM
Patriot:
That pilot agreement was signed on the contingency that the company could sell the power. At that time they did not have a buyer. If they couldn't find a buyer, there would be no payment. Also, there was some opposition to having a wind farm in Elk County at all. I don't know just when the decision to go ahead was made, but it hasn't been 2 and a half years.
What proof do you have that a private company was formed by those in government who negotiated for the wind farm ( and likely it's precise location on it's own family land) needed to perform the functions in government needed to determine the best use of that PILOT money? Do you know the precise location of the proposed wind farm and who the landowners are that are involved? Why don't you name names? If you are right there would be no grounds for slander.
Where is your proof? You are the one that is asking questions and making accusations. Give us something other than insinuations and opinions.
My husband could give you the precise location as they're already doing locates there. He could probably give you the landowners too as that's on the tickets. I'll have to ask him when he comes home and get back on that.
He might have been better in Washington than he is in Topka :) At least he couldn't make decisions all by himself when he was there.
http://www.tva.com/environment/reports/caney/draft_ea.pdf
If anyone is interested in seeing the proposed siting map for this project, there is a map of it on page 2-10 at the above link. It's part of a very detailed report of the overall project. Should provide ample information to those who would like to keep this discussion going.
My husband said if you go down Kill Deer to Rd. 7 and look to the north of Kill Deer, you'll see the sub-station and then the rest of it will spread to the south and west of there all the way to Flint. He said Perkins owns most of the land it's going on, but wasn't sure who owned the rest. They're getting ready to put in roads to it I guess.
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 05:11:46 PM
That pilot agreement was signed on the contingency that the company could sell the power. At that time they did not have a buyer. If they couldn't find a buyer, there would be no payment. Also, there was some opposition to having a wind farm in Elk County at all. I don't know just when the decision to go ahead was made, but it hasn't been 2 and a half years.
The fact is that the figures were agreed to at the time the agreement was signed. I would think that prudent planners would surely make preparations in the likely event the money did eventually come through. To do otherwise would, I opine, be an exercise in futility. We do have prudent planners in Elk County, don't we?
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 05:11:46 PM
What proof do you have that a private company was formed by those in government who negotiated for the wind farm ( and likely it's precise location on it's own family land) needed to perform the functions in government needed to determine the best use of that PILOT money?
Regarding the first half of your comment, ample evidence as to the founding of the private company here has been presented in numerous topics on this forum. The second part of your comment needs some rephrasing and grammar work to be intelligible.
Quote from: Wilma on May 17, 2011, 05:11:46 PM
Do you know the precise location of the proposed wind farm and who the landowners are that are involved? Why don't you name names? If you are right there would be no grounds for slander.
Where is your proof? You are the one that is asking questions and making accusations. Give us something other than insinuations and opinions.
Please refer to the previous two posts. Those and a good plat map will answer your question. I'm one of a number of folks asking questions. I don't believe the previous web referenced map is an insinuation or an opinion. Nor are the copies of the PILOT agreement & letters available on the TVA website.
And the term you are looking for in this instance would be libel, not slander. Just remember that truth is an absolute defense against a defamation claim. And if the plaintiff is a public official, malice must also be established. Please note that accusing someone of libel or slander, if not known to be truthful, might itself result in a successful defamation claim against the accuser.
All in all, there's plenty of 3rd party information available out there. Don't take my word for it. Perhaps some original research of your own would be helpful.
Why bring in a big corporation when they can't get enough interested people in the jobs that they have available now???
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 18, 2011, 06:44:47 AM
Why bring in a big corporation when they can't get enough interested people in the jobs that they have available now???
What jobs? Took me quite awhile to find the job in Howard that I have now, but when I get through school, I suspect I'll have to go to Wichita to get a job. Most of the jobs out here are minimum wage jobs with a very select few high paying jobs. :(
There are some jobs available working for the wind farm. Some are only temporary, but I think with the situation of the economy, that would be better than nothing. But many around here feel that if it doesn't pay top dollar they don't want it. I was taught not to be selfish. I feel that a job is a job, and temporary is better than nothing at all. But lots of people would rather sit and draw pay from the government. >:(
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 18, 2011, 09:00:57 AM
...But lots of people would rather sit and draw pay from the government. >:(
Or spend copious amounts of time soliciting grants and other handouts provided by other peoples labor. Free money is never really free.
Patriot:
Did you forget the contingency? Prudent planners did start a discussion about what to do with a million dollars and right here on the forum. We just didn't know at the time that a wind farm was what they were talking about.
What private company? And most of what you say needs rephrasing was taken directly from one of your posts. My memory which I have to rely on because my computer no longer cuts and pastes, failed me on one word.
I am using 3rd party information. Perhaps I am just interpreting it differently than you are.
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:11:26 AM
Did you forget the contingency? Prudent planners did start a discussion about what to do with a million dollars and right here on the forum. We just didn't know at the time that a wind farm was what they were talking about.
What else didn't (don't) we know? And, while it may seem petty to you, I notice you keep parroting the 'million dollar' line. It's been much less than that since day one. I wonder how many people heard the magic million dollar number, got starry eyed and put their brains in neutral (or worse park)?
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:11:26 AM
What private company?
Asked and answered... many times. Have you not been following the biggest threads the topic?
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:11:26 AM
And most of what you say needs rephrasing was taken directly from one of your posts. My memory which I have to rely on because my computer no longer cuts and pastes, failed me on one word.
I'm thinkin words are important. Even a single missed/misplaced word can really screw up the reader and the meaning. Maybe the local computer guru can help with the ailing computer.
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:11:26 AM
I am using 3rd party information. Perhaps I am just interpreting it differently than you are.
Or perhaps misinterpreting. One or the other.
I use the "million dollar" liine because it defines the topic, not the exact amount that is expected.
I take it you are referring to Elk Konnected, LLC. LLC stands for limited liability company and does not have to be formed for profit. Or is it the Elk Konnected that you are having a problem with?
I, too, was insistent on correct grammar, word usage and spelling until I realized the the content was more important than the correctness of the aforesaid. Why else am I called the spelling police?
Are you admitting that you are misinterpreting much of what is being said?
200 MW installed nameplate capacity. $4500 per MW in year one, increasing 2% per year. Total comes to $22,111,300 over a twenty year period. Why would prudent planners plan for only year one, and not the total amount?
And this nonsense about it being only $675,000 in year one; that was at 150 MW. The contract with TVA is for the whole 200MW and that is what they are building. 200 MW at $4500 in year one is $900,000. It goes over a million in year six.
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
I use the "million dollar" liine because it defines the topic, not the exact amount that is expected.
It's also false, misleading and dare I say manipulative.
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
I take it you are referring to Elk Konnected, LLC. LLC stands for limited liability company and does not have to be formed for profit. Or is it the Elk Konnected that you are having a problem with?
Profit vs non-profit has nothing to do with the issues at hand... Government Konnections do.
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
I, too, was insistent on correct grammar, word usage and spelling until I realized the the content was more important than the correctness of the aforesaid. Why else am I called the spelling police?
Grammar and word usage are critical to effective communication, though much of that seems no longer a priority in public education. Gee, a root cause to a screwed up society perhaps? No wonder the Constitution is being trashed by some as irrelevant in 'modern' times. The second, fourth and tenth amendments are prime examples.
Quote from: Wilma on May 18, 2011, 09:46:20 AM
Are you admitting that you are misinterpreting much of what is being said?
No.
Quote from: flintauqua on May 18, 2011, 09:55:22 AM
200 MW installed nameplate capacity. $4500 per MW in year one, increasing 2% per year. Total comes to $22,111,300 over a twenty year period. Why would prudent planners plan for only year one, and not the total amount?
And this nonsense about it being only $675,000 in year one; that was at 150 MW. The contract with TVA is for the whole 200MW and that is what they are building. 200 MW at $4500 in year one is $900,000. It goes over a million in year six.
Way to leave out pertinent details to justify your position. Did you work in government at some point?
Read the damned project proposals for yourself. We get paid on
completed capacity. Here are some details you may have missed.
1. The project is presented in two phases. Phase 1 = 150 Mw. Phase 2 = 50 Mw.
2. Only Phase 1 is scheduled for year 1.
3. Phase 1 results in $675,000 for year 1. $4500/Mw x 150Mw
4. Phase 2 scheduled for year 2 or beyond and may now be in question as an 'expansion' that may not be completed under new agreements to which wind farm companies have voluntarily agreed.
5. The project has repeatedly been promoted locally as generating over $1 million of public revenue in year one... a lie, I might add. At best, the million dollar figure is several years out, even by your own misguided estimates. (Saul Alinsky didn't work, so now are using Obama math & economics propaganda methods?)
6. Local 'planners' now have this county at about $1 milliion in debt (and growing) against revenues of something like $2.4 million. And that with the highest per capita property tax rates in the state. Why would we believe they are capable of planning based on a 'potential' ten year cash stream? They seem to think the American taxpayer piggy bank is free money & theirs for the taking & that big spending of other peoples money is an honorable mission. Given the Democrat propensity to spend without end and the makeup of our leadership, I'm not surprised.
Your facts are flawed, and your analysis half fast. It's no wonder the masses are confused. The biggest problem with Ayn Rand's perspectives is that they take historical truths, real world economics, business sense and real human behaviors into account. Shame on her for being so pragmatic!
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 18, 2011, 06:44:47 AM
Why bring in a big corporation when they can't get enough interested people in the jobs that they have available now???
Probably cause the jobs that are here now wouldn't feed one person much less a family. I think its uhmmm Ebay or Google has offices down in coffeyville, wonder how they attracted them. Imagine a IT company putting in a office here in this area, where they would produce jobs that pay 45 -60 a hour. How would that affect this area??
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 18, 2011, 09:00:57 AM
There are some jobs available working for the wind farm. Some are only temporary, but I think with the situation of the economy, that would be better than nothing. But many around here feel that if it doesn't pay top dollar they don't want it. I was taught not to be selfish. I feel that a job is a job, and temporary is better than nothing at all. But lots of people would rather sit and draw pay from the government. >:(
Look at it from their point of view, why should they go out and work for 7.50 a hour when they make 500 a month on foodstamps, plus get subsidies for housing, and electric, and pretty much live for free. Some even get a TANF check as well as other funds. Shrug. I've know folks that rake in 1800 a month off welfare, live in welfare housing, welfare food stamps, and even collect another 1200 in child support payments. where is the incentive to go work???
Quote from: Patriot on May 18, 2011, 10:41:59 AM
Local 'planners' now have this county at about $1 milliion in debt (and growing) against revenues of something like $2.4 million.
Why is elk county or any county operating on a deficit? IF they don't have the money then shut it down. There is no reason a county cannot operate on monies collected and in hand.
One county i lived in the "commissioners" decided to take a surplus of funds and pave every gravel road in the county. By the time the elections came around the county was 15 million in the red in debt. We tossed their ass out, replaced them and the state came in and told the county that they had to come up with a plan to pay off the 15 million in a 5 year plan. So they jacked property taxes up supposedly temporarily, enacted a splost tax of .01 on purchases and knuckeled down, cut the crap out of their expenditures, cut payroll by 30%, and paid it off in 2.5 years. Sheriff took the 1.65 a day that was going to feed inmates every day, and cut it to .80 a inmate. Cut 1 meal out of their 3 a day. Fed streak o lean, eggs, and cornbread for breakfast, veggies like greens, taters, and purple hull peas for dinner with cornbread. Cut out everything to drink except water with the meals. IF inmates wanted anything extra htey had to buy it for themselvse. IF THEY GOT LUCKY, the cook would toss a hog jowl or some hamhocks into the veggies. Oh and they also served em SOS once a week.
Cutting back is the name of the game. BTW if ya want to drum up tourism, you gotta have themes. The way you learn is to find what works and imitate it. I know two or three towns that brought back their whole counties by having festivals. Shrug
Steve, why do I or anyone else put in 12 hour days almost everyday of the week to support our families???? Because we would rather work than have you or everyone else pay our way!! I know a couple whom neither work, and the mother had the nerve to ask me why I wasn't at the school supporting my daughter during a daytime event!! It's cause I work, to support lazy people like them!!!!! Makes me so mad!!!
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 18, 2011, 06:06:20 PM
Steve, why do I or anyone else put in 12 hour days almost everyday of the week to support our families???? Because we would rather work than have you or everyone else pay our way!! I know a couple whom neither work, and the mother had the nerve to ask me why I wasn't at the school supporting my daughter during a daytime event!! It's cause I work, to support lazy people like them!!!!! Makes me so mad!!!
I didn't say you. I said there really is no incentive to get them out to work. I know when i was younger i wasn't at all satisfied iwth working 12 -16 hour days making less than 100 dollars a day. So i got out there educated myself and went to where the jobs were. I used to drive 1.5 hours a day one way to a job to make what i wanted to make. Then the county where i resided in got industry to move up there and I was only 15 min to work making the same money. I've asked it before, if elk wants to grow, then where is the industrial park? Any county that wants to grow will have one.
Quote from: Patriot on May 18, 2011, 10:41:59 AM
Way to leave out pertinent details to justify your position. Did you work in government at some point?
Read the damned project proposals for yourself. We get paid on completed capacity. Here are some details you may have missed.
1. The project is presented in two phases. Phase 1 = 150 Mw. Phase 2 = 50 Mw.
2. Only Phase 1 is scheduled for year 1.
3. Phase 1 results in $675,000 for year 1. $4500/Mw x 150Mw
4. Phase 2 scheduled for year 2 or beyond and may now be in question as an 'expansion' that may not be completed under new agreements to which wind farm companies have voluntarily agreed.
5. The project has repeatedly been promoted locally as generating over $1 million of public revenue in year one... a lie, I might add. At best, the million dollar figure is several years out, even by your own misguided estimates. (Saul Alinsky didn't work, so now are using Obama math & economics propaganda methods?)
6. Local 'planners' now have this county at about $1 milliion in debt (and growing) against revenues of something like $2.4 million. And that with the highest per capita property tax rates in the state. Why would we believe they are capable of planning based on a 'potential' ten year cash stream? They seem to think the American taxpayer piggy bank is free money & theirs for the taking & that big spending of other peoples money is an honorable mission. Given the Democrat propensity to spend without end and the makeup of our leadership, I'm not surprised.
Your facts are flawed, and your analysis half fast. It's no wonder the masses are confused. The biggest problem with Ayn Rand's perspectives is that they take historical truths, real world economics, business sense and real human behaviors into account. Shame on her for being so pragmatic!
I left out no pertinent details. You have convienently failed to acknowledge that the PILOT was signed in Dec 2008. It does contain two phases. Things have changed since then. If you did your research, you would find that the press releases of Oct 2010 - nearly two years after the PILOT - from both the seller (Enel) and the buyer (TVA) announce that the Power Purchase Agreement is for 200MW. And if you read the updated environmental assesment of March 2011, it spells out exactly where the 200 MW will come from - the 111 1.8MW Vestas V90 generating units that, baring unforeseen construction delays, will be online by the end of 2012.
111 x 1.8 = 200MWSo, if anyone is choosing to leave out facts, or is not doing the necessary research, it is you, not me. Blow that out of your Obama/Alinsky fixated pie hole!
Quote from: flintauqua on May 18, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
I left out no pertinent details.
I guess time and payments will tell.
Quote from: flintauqua on May 18, 2011, 06:43:50 PM
. Blow that out of your Obama/Alinsky fixated pie hole!
Flint you said blow....the gov says no blow...wagons ho! get with the program.
Exactly what is an Alinsky fixated pie hole?
http://wind.energy-business-review.com/news/enel-green-starts-construction-of-caneyriver-wind-project-in-us-200511
QuoteEnel Green Power North America (EGPNA) has started the construction of its 200MW Caney River Wind Project (Caney) in Kansas, US.
Trade Wind Energy, a developing partner of EGPNA will be responsible for the construction of the $350m project which will be equipped with111 Vestas wind turbines V-90 of 1.8 MW each.
Upon completion, the wind plant will be capable of generating 765kWh of energy every year, sufficient to power about 70,000 homes in Kansas.
The Caney River Wind Project is expected to reduce the atmospheric emission of over 580,000 tons of CO2 a year.
Caney River Wind Project committed funding for a Native Environment Conservation Plan focused on the Tallgrass Prairie in Kansas.
These funds will be used for the purchase of conservation easements for over 18,000 acres, the restoration of 6,000 acres of Tall Grass Prairie Habitat and wind and wildlife research focused on this eco-region.
Quote
Colorado firm lands Kansas wind turbine order
BY BILL WILSON
The Wichita Eagle
Vestas has received an order for 111 wind turbines from Enel Green Power North America for the Caney River wind energy project in Elk County, Kansas.
The contract includes delivery and commissioning along with a five-year service and maintenance agreement. Delivery is scheduled for the second half of 2011 and commissioning is expected in late 2011.
Vestas' Colorado-based factories will manufacture the blades and towers, as well as nacelle and hub assembly, for the Caney River project, which will be the third-largest wind farm in Kansas.
Vestas and Enel previously teamed up on the first phase of the Smoky Hills wind-energy project near Salina, which was completed in 2008 using turbines. Vestas has 326 of its wind turbines in Kansas at four sites throughout the state.
Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2011/05/19/1855229/colorado-firm-lands-kansas-wind.html#ixzz1N1pFaGct
KFB president Steve Baccus to
meet with Gov. Brownback over wind decision
KFB
Landowners in the Kansas Flint Hills – and their agriculture
KFB President
Steve Baccus
advocacy organization – are frustrated with Gov. Sam Brownback's recent decision to expand the area off limits to wind development. The Governor reached an agreement with potential wind energy developers, that although voluntary, for all practical purposes prevents development of wind projects on private property in the designated area.
Ottawa County grain farmer Steve Baccus, who serves as president of Kansas Farm Bureau, says the Governor's decision strikes at the heart of a deeply-held belief that an individual should be able to make his or her own decisions on how to manage their private property.
"Anytime someone takes a look at your rights to do what you want with that property, Farm Bureau's going to be there and be involved, because our folks are very serious about it."
Baccus says it's an issue that transcends where you live. He says landowners' rights are a bedrock principle upon which the country was founded.
"I think the guy in town who has a corner lot and a 2-story ranch house thinks pretty seriously about his right to do what he wants on that property, so it's a principle that's founded in Americanism."
As a direct result of this decision, Baccus will meet personally next week with Gov. Brownback.
Do you happen to have the link to where the previous post came from Arc fault?
Farm bureau weekly newsletter. Mr Steve has also been on the radio on the subject on the ag network.
Have you seen the cool bumperstickers from CQ county?
SAM, YOU BLEW IT.
I have been asking citizens that I have coffee with how the governor could do something like tell a landowner what the landowner can do with his/her own land. I am totally amazed. You go, Kansas Farm Bureau. At least someone is asking the governor, what the heck were you thinking?
Quote from: Janet Harrington on June 13, 2011, 08:54:46 PM
I have been asking citizens that I have coffee with how the governor could do something like tell a landowner what the landowner can do with his/her own land. I am totally amazed. You go, Kansas Farm Bureau. At least someone is asking the governor, what the heck were you thinking?
You mean like going up to someones house and telling them they have to get rid of a parts car or that their grass is too tall or their house has to be painted to meet the standards of the community?
I hope Farm Bureau can get Brownback off his "almighty high horse" and bring him back to the ground. In my opinion he is taking the Obama Highroad with most every decision he has made.
Jo, that is exactly what I have been thinking. I just couldn't put it into words. Thank you.