Friends, Romans, countrymen...
There may be an 800 lb gorilla in our room. It may have been here for a long time. That critter has been eating bananas and peanuts. We can see that because there are pieces of fresh banana and peanuts all over the place. Food is good, and many are running around gobbling up those crumbs thinking it's manna from heaven. Some are making sure the gorilla has plenty of food to eat so that he keeps dropping crumbs. A few are standing aside asking for more info about the animal, his feeders, the sources of his food and the reasons he's in the room. Folks in all three groups have access to this forum and other venues. Some have answered by suggesting that the questioners shut up, look at the crumbs, eat and be happy (or get the hell outta Ft Dodge). Those responses don't explain the gorilla. Those 'answers' don't tell anything about the gorilla's handler(s), the zookeepers or the food. The gorilla is still in the room.
It would appear that the animal keepers may have a white elephant too. That only raises more unanswered questions. Then there are the numerous red herrings. When these animals decide to move about, something is gonna get broken or somebody is gonna get hurt. That's the problem with ignoring large animals in a room full of hungry people. Ignoring the creatures do not make them nonexistent.
Unlike topics on this forum and the smoke of spring pasture burns, this matter of the gorilla, elephant and the herrings is not going away any time soon. Most of us pay to sit in this room and have every right to know all about the animals. We all have an equal say in how our room should be decorated. There are answers, and the answers will see the light of day. The handlers and zookeepers have now had many chances to provide clear answers informally. They have failed to do so. The critters may turn out to be stuffed toys or illusions and the crumbs real manna. That would be great. They may turn out to be something else entirely. No matter the outcome, the answers will be made manifest. Count on it.
That is a great analogy. Do you reckon there may be some blind people in the room.
Quote from: Ross on May 04, 2011, 08:37:32 AM
That is a great analogy. Do you reckon there may be some blind people in the room.
I'm sure there are. And they are the ones who are most deserving of the truth, lest they be trampled in time when the critters move.
My pilgrim soul once undertook
A journey of the mind
To Hindustan, the mythic East
The truth of things to find.
Of blind men once a rhyme I'd heard
Whose hands did serve for sight
But none of which could comprehend
The human creature's plight
As mortal and as strait of mind.
Each blind man, so it's told,
Would shout to others, giving names
To what he touched, and being bold,
Would call the white elephant's leg the whole
Another one, the trunk,
And thus the creature must reflect
What each man held, so each man thunk.
So one man said "It's like a wall."
Another, "Like a tree."
And so on down the line, it's told,
Each claimed the whole of mystery.
And as each man would speculate,
The older poem did conclude
That God must likewise be beyond
The dogma claimed by any dude–
Divine things must be likewise dark
To those whose limits hold
Perceptions to one's narrow sight.
And so I heard, and took as told
Until I came upon those men–
As blind as stories tell–
But where the old tale told of five,
Five there were, but one as well
Upon a hill, looking down,
As blind as all the rest,
But telling them with great panache
That what each one would thus attest
Was partial, part of larger mass
An white elephant, he cried,
Must be the whole, but now I knew,
And when I knew, I sighed
Because I saw a different sight
From poems' easy lore
Indeed, five blind men saw with hands,
But objects there were four.
Two men indeed did pat the hide
Of the white elephant so big,
But one in fact did touch a tree,
Another a nearby pig.
The fifth blind man in fact found a snake,
An oddly sanguine asp:
It never bit despite the abuse!
And then I did begin to grasp:
The sixth was the one to see,
I knew before too long:
The one who wove the tale of One
To that one only did belong
A white elephant, a child's toy,
A tiny world, at that.
As fingers grasped the minuscule
The blind man yelled, the blind man spat
And framed the dark so that it might
Be just like toys so small
And, being blind, the man knew not
That he had missed at all
The grandeur and variety
Of things under the sun
But being prone to claim too much,
The sixth man made all one.
And in the years that came to pass
The blind man fame did gain,
His poem did become a fad
On tour folks paid for his refrain,
And soon the ones who wished to sound
Like learned, reading folks
Would quote the poem I once heard
And tell some good, broad-minded jokes,
"Those fools," the learned folks would start,
"They think a tusk a spear!"
"They think the ear a fan, I say!"
The fans did shout, then sipped their beer.
But I returned to my small world
Convinced that I'm still fine
To keep confessing creeds of old
And keep a humble mind.
I do not know enough, it seems,
To say that all our ways
Together make an white elephant
On which I only gaze.
I do not write, in other words,
To claim that I can see:
I only wish to offer folks
Another possibility.
Gorillas cannot live on bananas and peanuts alone.They require a balanced diet from many different handlers who are interested in the survival of the gorilla. The volunteer keepers worked hard to be sure the gorilla felt loved and was content and happy. People came to see the gorilla. They were interested in it and brought their friends. They knew a group cared very much about the gorilla's well being and brought even more friends. They spent money while they were visiting and sent post cards back home about the neat gorilla.
But a few self interested people didn't like the gorilla and they tormented and teased the gorilla and the volunteer keepers and their supporters until the keepers wandered away from discouragement and went on to spend their time on more appreciated projects. The gorilla died of a broken heart and the people no longer came. But the few people who didn't like the gorilla didn't care, because they felt they had a righteous cause and didn't really care about the outfall. It was more important to have the spotlight on their small group and their cause.
Diane, that perspective is about the sickest and most dysfunctional codependent crap that could have been presented on the subject. I hope you don't work with addicts, children of addicts, codependents, ACOA folks or anyone with PTSD, because you obviously have no real understanding of the '800 lb gorilla or white elephant in the room analogies'. It has nothing to do with Grimm's fairy tales. Look up Melody Beatty and John Bradshaw sometime.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 04, 2011, 10:00:46 AM
Gorillas cannot live on bananas and peanuts alone.They require a balanced diet from many different handlers who are interested in the survival of the gorilla. The volunteer keepers worked hard to be sure the gorilla felt loved and was content and happy. People came to see the gorilla. They were interested in it and brought their friends. They knew a group cared very much about the gorilla's well being and brought even more friends. They spent money while they were visiting and sent post cards back home about the neat gorilla.
But a few self interested people didn't like the gorilla and they tormented and teased the gorilla and the volunteer keepers and their supporters until the keepers wandered away from discouragement and went on to spend their time on more appreciated projects. The gorilla died of a broken heart and the people no longer came. But the few people who didn't like the gorilla didn't care, because they felt they had a righteous cause and didn't really care about the outfall. It was more important to have the spotlight on their small group and their cause.
Very nice try but insuffecitent you failed to address the failure of the handlers to be truthful and open and that's how they miss the real picture.
Now I have a headache. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Roma Jean Turner on May 04, 2011, 12:31:39 PM
Now I have a headache. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Are you related to any my friends the Turner's in Independence, Ks? Just curious.
Not that I know of Ross. My grandfather John owned the lumber yard in Moline until his death in 1960" He also wrote the 'Annie Knight' column. My dad's name was George Turner. That is my relationship to Elk Co.
Gee, Patriot, my little fable wasn't appreciated? So therefor I must have something wrong with me? Figures. Funny I don't recall mentioning anyone or anything personal except for a gorilla. I think it's very funny. ;D ;D ;D By the way a white elephant is a very different thing.
Patriot, you have made it clear you can't stand me, so what did I have to lose? You have no objectivity when it comes to anything I say. Lighten up will ya?
Ross, I wish I was a corporate lawyer so I could explain some "what ifs'' that could be in play here, but since I don't have, and am not owed any details, I can't reassure you about any of this. There is so much concern about taxpayer money. What if the questioned grant came from a foundation for the state of Kansas to distribute? Not all money that states and the Fed have come from collected taxpayer money. Tax revenue is the the biggest one of course.You had questions about Public Square? Why shouldn't a group with that kind of experience be asked (hired) to help? That's what community action groups do. They may have saved a lot of time preventing wheel spinning, made suggestions on how to get started and probably gave some very important legal advise about LLCs and nonprofits and tax status and such. I don't know for sure of course, but such things do happen here when community groups get together. Here they are usually civic associations, made up of people who can become very powerful and can influence County Council because they can form a big voting block.They are made up off all kind of people but it's not considered a conflict of interest because nobody is paid and people recuse themselves if a personal issue comes up. They all have their local communities at heart and they also work very hard for the benefit of all. We just have much bigger numbers. I know Humbolt KS has been doing something similar as did/is Greensburg....Four years ago today?
Sorry Roma, I didn't mean to give you a headache.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 04, 2011, 05:53:11 PM
Gee, Patriot, my little fable wasn't appreciated? So therefor I must have something wrong with me? Figures. Funny I don't recall mentioning anyone or anything personal except for a gorilla. I think it's very funny. ;D ;D ;D By the way a white elephant is a very different thing.
Patriot, you have made it clear you can't stand me, so what did I have to lose? You have no objectivity when it comes to anything I say. Lighten up will ya?
Your assumption that I can't stand you is wrong. If that were the case, I would tell you so with no ambiguity. If you say something that is out of context, then I don't think objectivity is at issue. As for your fable, it was way too far off point. Given that some of the things being discussed regarding the EK, government, conflict of interest, etc. have recently brought to public view situations that might even have overtones of... let's just stick with your fable really not following the point and in context not being funny at all.
Quote from: Roma Jean Turner on May 04, 2011, 05:52:26 PM
Not that I know of Ross. My grandfather John owned the lumber yard in Moline until his death in 1960" He also wrote the 'Annie Knight' column. My dad's name was George Turner. That is my relationship to Elk Co.
Like I said I was just curious, it is a small world we live in today. The Turner's I know in Independence are mighty fine people.
My school buddy's mother thanked me recently for keeping him out of trouble when we were in high school. That really set me aback, I never expected it. She just never knew I guess, but we never got into trouble with the law or anything just high school shenanigan.
Those were the days. Thanks for responding.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 04, 2011, 05:53:11 PM
Gee, Patriot, my little fable wasn't appreciated? So therefor I must have something wrong with me? Figures. Funny I don't recall mentioning anyone or anything personal except for a gorilla. I think it's very funny. ;D ;D ;D By the way a white elephant is a very different thing.
Patriot, you have made it clear you can't stand me, so what did I have to lose? You have no objectivity when it comes to anything I say. Lighten up will ya?
Ross, I wish I was a corporate lawyer so I could explain some "what ifs'' that could be in play here, but since I don't have, and am not owed any details, I can't reassure you about any of this. There is so much concern about taxpayer money. What if the questioned grant came from a foundation for the state of Kansas to distribute? Not all money that states and the Fed have come from collected taxpayer money. Tax revenue is the the biggest one of course.You had questions about Public Square? Why shouldn't a group with that kind of experience be asked (hired) to help? That's what community action groups do. They may have saved a lot of time preventing wheel spinning, made suggestions on how to get started and probably gave some very important legal advise about LLCs and nonprofits and tax status and such. I don't know for sure of course, but such things do happen here when community groups get together. Here they are usually civic associations, made up of people who can become very powerful and can influence County Council because they can form a big voting block.They are made up off all kind of people but it's not considered a conflict of interest because nobody is paid and people recuse themselves if a personal issue comes up. They all have their local communities at heart and they also work very hard for the benefit of all. We just have much bigger numbers. I know Humbolt KS has been doing something similar as did/is Greensburg....Four years ago today?
Sorry Roma, I didn't mean to give you a headache.
I lived in Humbolt back in the 70's and I liked the little town. But as my moma alwys told me because someone else does it, that doesn't make it right. And so you think they have the communities interest at heart and that's fine. However if they do, why hide?
You said it, "people who can become very powerful and can influence County Council." And especially when one of them is on the council. Now do you see the conflict of interest and the reason for hiding. Really, where is their loyalty to the elected officials position or the company position. that's why it's called a conflict of interest.
Didn't you read their suggestion: Unified Gov't (w/in the county) to save money and become more unified (do away with city gov't, councils all centrally located-one managing body) (Big Ideas's). Why would they truely want to strip the communities of their own identities and place control and taxation in Howard. For control.
Here is some information I got about a year ago and not to many people know. I heard it form school staff. When West Elk High School realized they weren't going to have enough players to have a full team they went to Elk Valley and asked to join teams and Elk Valley said bring your boys on down. Elk valley is in Longton not in howard. West Elk is not in Howard it is about a mile outside the city limits. But they refused to take their boys, they said they wanted Elk Valley to bring their boys to them. Well they went home and droped to a lesser status with their team. In other words if it's not Howard it won't happen. Now let's be clear on this, I can't prove a word of it. And I am sure some one from Howard will telll me about it.
I was never into sports because I started working at 11 years old and never had time for it, besides I was a skinny little runt that would have been thrown around like an old dish rag. Why, I was so small I got played with like a basketball. LOL I didn't start growing untill after high school. But I enjoyed every minute of it, there were disadvantages but there were also advantages, just like everything else in life.
Public Square Communities LLC tells them to take control of their communities, by what authority. Now perhaps he could use a better term but another term might not fit in with, enforcement of cleaning up the town or whatever. Where do they get the authority??
By trickery, such as the lolllipops I referenced in other posts.
I just can't make it any clearer.
West Elk is less than half a mile south of Howard. More like a quarter of a mile. Actually it might be only one block.
Elk Valley has been playing the lesser football for years. West Elk has the better football facilities, so why should they go to a lesser place? It is things like this that has kept the county divided. Two county fairs? If that is what the people want, why not. Personally, I think that new fair grounds in the vicinity of the rodeo grounds would be more sensible.
Elk County is the way it is because that is the way the citizens want it. Otherwise, they would be doing something about it? Oh, yes, there is a group trying to do something, isn't there? In spite of the flack they keep getting. More power to them. But why shouldn't they have tax money to improve the county? If the county commissioners think that it is warranted, it is their decision. Not a one of the commissioners is getting any of the tax money that is being spent trying to bring a better way of life to us. Isn't that why we pay our taxes?
Did you read the paper from this week? The commissioners notes are in it. I personally think from what I read, they are doing a pretty good job. But I don't attend the meetings, I just don't have time during the day, nor have the money to pay someone to work for me to do it. I know what an LLC is, but going to do some research on this more. I don't think one person owes LLC, and don't think it is private. I know people on different committess and asked them personally if they paid to be in it or if it was a private group, the answer was no!
As for the ball thing and schools, Wilma has it right. But have so much bad negative things about West Elk you would think that the kids were not learning a thing out there. That is soooo wrong!! My girls are all doing pretty good academic wise and I am very proud of what they are learning. My Kindergartener knows how to read!! Knows how to read and just turned 6 end of April. If you ask me, that is GREAT!! Right were she is supposed to be. As for my 7th grader, have you seen the things that they learn??? Math is a rough one, of course I am more at the Elementary level (as that is the level that I teach), but the kids are challenged!! I think ELK COUNTY IS GREAT!! THE SCHOOLS, THE PEOPLE, AND LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT!!!
This LLC business can be complicated depending on which state the papers are filed in, and I know just enough to get in trouble, but here goes.
Yes, a person does have to sign the application papers, but that does not necessarily make them an "owner", they might not even be part of the group who wants to organize. That name simply assures that the application is properly filled out and is true. There is no obligation of ownership nor does it mean anybody is working for them. That name does not have to made public or be made available. It may even be the name of the lawyer who filed the papers on behalf of the group.
In some states LLC's can be legally tied to private companies or non-profits. Depending on how it is set up, a non profit doesn't have to pay taxes but may have to file tax paperwork and has certain protections from frivolous lawsuits. It can be very complicated and may need a good lawyer to explain the legal details .I haven't researched Kansas LLC in detail so yours may be set up somewhat differently and have different choices. I have my own small business and looked into all this in Delaware when I set it up many years ago. Look up the Kansas details for yourselves. I know some don't approve but I do have information on some other Kansas areas who have done similar things and the local towns and counties have put tax money in to help with start up costs, commonly called seed money. Whether there were complaints about it, I really can't say. I have a lawyer friend I could ask about all this but I don't want to because he'd probably charge me! ;D
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 05, 2011, 08:14:03 AM
I don't think one person owes LLC, and don't think it is private. I know people on different committess and asked them personally if they paid to be in it or if it was a private group, the answer was no!
How about this.... instead of you guessing and asking volunteers, take a look at these links which explain what an LLC is and how an LLC works. These articles are real short. The 'members' (owners) of an LLC are probably not the volunteers who do the work of cleaning ditches, being on action committees, painting, raking, etc. There can be one or more members (legal owners) who actually own & manage the LLC. Read these and see if you can answer the questions...
What is an LLC: http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossaryl/a/llcdefinition.htm (http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossaryl/a/llcdefinition.htm)
Who formed EK, and who receives the limited liability protections?
Are volunteers protected from any liability for work done for or with EK?
Does EK have liability insurance? How much? Through what insurance company?
Who pays the damages if a windshield gets broken at an EK sponsored ballgame?
What happens if one of our youth gets hit by a car while picking up trash along the highway at an EK sponsored cleanup?
Do the kid's parents sign any liability waivers before their kids participate in EK functions?
What about adult volunteers? How are they protected in case of injury?
Who are the members of an LLC: http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossarym/g/memberofllc.htm
Who are the legal members of EK?
What is the Operating Agreement for an LLC: http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossaryo/g/operatingagree.htm
Where can you go to see the EK Operating Agreement, and what does it say?
What are the investment interests, percentage interests, member voting rights, etc. for EK
How is EK managed, and by whom? Who is legally responsible for any acts of EK?
What are the rights and duties of each legal member of EK?
Who can sign contracts for EK?
Who legally decides where any money that EK receives ends up going, who pays any bills EK has.
Do EK's legal members/managers receive any pay or other benefits from EK?
Since EK is a business making recommendations to government, are they required to register as a lobby group? Have they?
These, and many more questions remain unanswered. When you can make public the answers to these questions, you will be on the road to ending all the recent debates. My guess is that finding the answers will be very difficult.
Quote from: Wilma on May 04, 2011, 08:46:53 PM
West Elk is less than half a mile south of Howard. More like a quarter of a mile. Actually it might be only one block.
Elk Valley has been playing the lesser football for years. West Elk has the better football facilities, so why should they go to a lesser place? It is things like this that has kept the county divided. Two county fairs? If that is what the people want, why not. Personally, I think that new fair grounds in the vicinity of the rodeo grounds would be more sensible.
Elk County is the way it is because that is the way the citizens want it. Otherwise, they would be doing something about it? Oh, yes, there is a group trying to do something, isn't there? In spite of the flack they keep getting. More power to them. But why shouldn't they have tax money to improve the county? If the county commissioners think that it is warranted, it is their decision. Not a one of the commissioners is getting any of the tax money that is being spent trying to bring a better way of life to us. Isn't that why we pay our taxes?
You said, "West Elk is less than half a mile south of Howard." That's the point it is not a Howard School it is a county school that Howard wants to claim, by even attempting to move the city limits to put it in town, why?
You said,"West Elk has the better football facilities, so why should they go to a lesser place? It is things like this that has kept the county divided." So no other community in Elk County is as good as Howard is what I hear. Why then did they go and ask if the only attitude is do it our way?
You said, "It is things like this that has kept the county divided. Two county fairs?" Does Longton call their a county fair? I thought it was called the longton Free Fair? Isn't Longton allowed their own identity? Or Does everyone have to identify with Howard?
You said, "Elk County is the way it is because that is the way the citizens want it." Is there something drastically wrong with Elk County? I think it is a terrific place to live, it doesn't pretend to be a large city, it knows it is largely an agricultural community, it is a pretty friendly community. What is so terribly wrong with that? How frequent are the bank robberies, murders, etc.
You said, "Oh, yes, there is a group trying to do something, isn't there?" Who owns the group as you call it. Who own's Elk Konnected, LLC ? Do you know? What is the structure of the company? Does it have a board of directors, do they have stock holders? All I have seen and heard is the man from Leoti, Kansas that runs yet another company called Public Squares Communities, LLC. He has ran all their so called Community Conversations and he is being paid with taxpayers dollars. He doesn't do what he does for free. He divides the community up into groups and controls almost everything they do. I even heard him try to intimidate people (sorta very politely) at the last meeting to set in his circles. But really what is Elk Konnected, LLC trying to do and how? And do you know for a fact that no one else associated with Elk Konnected, LLC is being paid? Have they shown you their books? Just like Public Squares Community, LLC they claim to provide a service and he is paid good money for his services, after all Public Squares Community, LLC is a business and pays his salary with tax monies collected from communities like ours.
If I was a betting person I'd bet the owners of Elk Konnected,LLC live in Howard and their board of directors or whatever they call their ruling faction.
If Elk Konnected, LLC wants to stay in hiding why don't they continue to operate on donations. They claim to have all those supporters, they started with seed money on supposedly over 60 donating companies and people. But again these must have been people and companies that want to remain part of a secretive organization.
Ever since you boys have been asking questions, they're not into providing answers.
Except for a few defenders, it's been quiet.
Patriot, I will read those links, but just as a side note, ask.com is not a real reliable source. I tried to use it for different research papers this past year, and was told that it isn't a good research site because people can actually go on and add there own spin on things. This came from a professor from one of my classes to get my masters in special education. Thanks for the information I will read it.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 05, 2011, 09:20:59 AM
This LLC business can be complicated depending on which state the papers are filed in, and I know just enough to get in trouble, but here goes.
Yes, a person does have to sign the application papers, but that does not necessarily make them an "owner", they might not even be part of the group who wants to organize. That name simply assures that the application is properly filled out and is true. There is no obligation of ownership nor does it mean anybody is working for them. That name does not have to made public or be made available. It may even be the name of the lawyer who filed the papers on behalf of the group.
In some states LLC's can be legally tied to private companies or non-profits. Depending on how it is set up, a non profit doesn't have to pay taxes but may have to file tax paperwork and has certain protections from frivolous lawsuits. It can be very complicated and may need a good lawyer to explain the legal details .I haven't researched Kansas LLC in detail so yours may be set up somewhat differently and have different choices. I have my own small business and looked into all this in Delaware when I set it up many years ago. Look up the Kansas details for yourselves. I know some don't approve but I do have information on some other Kansas areas who have done similar things and the local towns and counties have put tax money in to help with start up costs, commonly called seed money. Whether there were complaints about it, I really can't say. I have a lawyer friend I could ask about all this but I don't want to because he'd probably charge me! ;D
Diane that is an awful lot of maybe's. I just don't feel they apply. When someone or something, in this case Elk Konnected, LLC want's county money or to influence county and city government's they should not hide be hind closed doors. And they should step out into the light.
Quote from: redcliffsw on May 05, 2011, 09:39:10 AM
Ever since you boys have been asking questions, they're not into providing answers.
Except for a few defenders, it's been quiet.
You are so right. They don't have Mr. Woodbury to take control for them.
but even he isn't talking. It is not a place where he has total control.
The ones that have the real answers stay in hiding and just moniter. I'd really like to know why the pillers of the Elk Konnected, LLC Kommunity are afraid to come out into the light? What are they afraid of? Good leaders don't hide?
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 05, 2011, 09:45:19 AM
Patriot, I will read those links, but just as a side note, ask.com is not a real reliable source. I tried to use it for different research papers this past year, and was told that it isn't a good research site because people can actually go on and add there own spin on things. This came from a professor from one of my classes to get my masters in special education. Thanks for the information I will read it.
Then call a Kansas corporate lawyer.
Quote from: redcliffsw on May 05, 2011, 09:39:10 AM
Ever since you boys have been asking questions, they're not into providing answers.
Except for a few defenders, it's been quiet.
Kinda interesting, huh? But not at all surprising. They seek to shape an entire community using volunteers (unindendured servitude?), donations, taxpayer monies, influence government, and yet I get flamed for not publishing my name, shoe size and phone number. Go figure.
A Kansas limited liability company is formed by filing Articles of Organization with the Kansas Secretary of State and paying a fee of $165 for a paper filing (domestic/foreign or professional) or $160 E-filing online (domestic only).
Every LLC formed in Kansas must contain the words "limited liability company" or "limited company", or the abbreviation "LLC," "LC" or the designation "LLC" or "LC" included at the end of the company name. The name may contain the following words: "company," "association," "club," "foundation," "fund," "institute," "society," "union," "syndicate," "limited" or "trust" (or abbreviations of like import.
How to form a
Kansas Limited Liability Company
Organizing a Kansas LLC
Articles of Organization
A Kansas limited liability company is formed by filing Articles of Organization with the Kansas Secretary of State and paying a fee of $165 for a paper filing (domestic/foreign or professional) or $160 E-filing online (domestic only).
Every LLC formed in Kansas must contain the words "limited liability company" or "limited company", or the abbreviation "LLC," "LC" or the designation "LLC" or "LC" included at the end of the company name. The name may contain the following words: "company," "association," "club," "foundation," "fund," "institute," "society," "union," "syndicate," "limited" or "trust" (or abbreviations of like import.
A LLC must maintain a registered agent and registered office and file annual reports.
There is no provision in the Articles of Organization form to specify a duration for the LLC. Kansas law provides that a limited liability company is dissolved and its affairs shall be wound up "at the time specified in an operating agreement, but if no such time is set forth in the operating agreement, then the limited liability company shall have a perpetual existence." K.S.A. 17-76,116.
Careful Ross. Those are facts taken from Kansas law, and we should know by now that facts & truth aren't as important as image and 'feelings'. Safeguard those facts, as facts seem to be a rare commodity around here. By the way, we know who the registered agent is.
Link to KS secretary of State business listing: https://www.accesskansas.org/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s5 (https://www.accesskansas.org/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s5)
Click on 'Business Entity Database' link
Click on 'By business entity name' link
Enter Elk Konnected in the text block & click 'Search'
When the listing comes up, click the 'View Record' button
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 05, 2011, 08:14:03 AM
Did you read the paper from this week? The commissioners notes are in it. I personally think from what I read, they are doing a pretty good job. But I don't attend the meetings, I just don't have time during the day, nor have the money to pay someone to work for me to do it. I know what an LLC is, but going to do some research on this more. I don't think one person owes LLC, and don't think it is private. I know people on different committess and asked them personally if they paid to be in it or if it was a private group, the answer was no!
As for the ball thing and schools, Wilma has it right. But have so much bad negative things about West Elk you would think that the kids were not learning a thing out there. That is soooo wrong!! My girls are all doing pretty good academic wise and I am very proud of what they are learning. My Kindergartener knows how to read!! Knows how to read and just turned 6 end of April. If you ask me, that is GREAT!! Right were she is supposed to be. As for my 7th grader, have you seen the things that they learn??? Math is a rough one, of course I am more at the Elementary level (as that is the level that I teach), but the kids are challenged!! I think ELK COUNTY IS GREAT!! THE SCHOOLS, THE PEOPLE, AND LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT!!!
Now I have read it. It's going to be the next paper that I will find interesting. That is to see what they print about what I said at the meeting. I noticed they did do justice by Mr.s Rivers actually said about the use of our county government website by a private company. I expect details will be left out of my conversation with them as well.
Interesting. I guess there is just a difference in attitudes between your small towns and here. I did just get off the City of Newark web site as I was checking the summer camp schedules since I'll be involved in them again.The site has all the city doings coming up plus the UD Alumni weekend, the downtown Food and Brew Festival, run by local merchants ,Newark Night, hosted by the city in conjunction with local merchants and the "UDon't Need It"program which UD holds to get the college kids to bring their castoffs of furniture etc. to a central location rather than leave them dumped all over town. I don't think anybody cares that some things on the city website benefit so called "private" companies, see merchants and business people here in town.They all pay taxes here one way or another. Might I ask why it matters so much that EK activities not be listed on your website? Isn't it used as a sort of community bulletin board for the benefit of any interested people? No?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 05, 2011, 02:34:42 PM
Interesting. I guess there is just a difference in attitudes between your small towns and here. I did just get off the City of Newark web site as I was checking the summer camp schedules since I'll be involved in them again.The site has all the city doings coming up plus the UD Alumni weekend, the downtown Food and Brew Festival, run by local merchants ,Newark Night, hosted by the city in conjunction with local merchants and the "UDon't Need It"program which UD holds to get the college kids to bring their castoffs of furniture etc. to a central location rather than leave them dumped all over town. I don't think anybody cares that some things on the city website benefit so called "private" companies, see merchants and business people here in town.They all pay taxes here one way or another. Might I ask why it matters so much that EK activities not be listed on your website? Isn't it used as a sort of community bulletin board for the benefit of any interested people? No?
That is a city web site and most cities web sites I have visited do the same thing.
However your little city has 10 times the population of our whole county. There really is no comparison between where you live to where we live. Sorry.
Ross,
The question she asked was:
"Might I ask why it matters so much that EK activities not be listed on your website? Isn't it used as a sort of community bulletin board for the benefit of any interested people? No?"
How does the size of the community have anything to do with the appropriateness of having community organizations and their activities on a municipal or county website?
Doesn't matter to me flintaqua. Shall we duck now?
Because not only has she not been to Elk County in Years. She has to have a comment on everything that goes on in Elk County.
This thread is getting off subject, I don't think it was intended to give a drubbing to any one person. :P
That's ok Six, it does mention gorillas in the title. Besides I'm wearing my fireproof clothes. ;D That just made my point. 2008 wasn't so very long ago. No, I don't comment on everything. I have spurts of comment when you talk about something I am interested in and then I go away when it has run itself out. Actually, we had hoped to come out again for a couple of weeks at the end of May, but now I'm too busy, the gas prices are prohibitive and I don't think I would be welcome. No point in coming out just to be shot at. :-\ By the way, up until just a few years ago we still owned 240 acres in Elk County and paid taxes, yet we never made any comments on how they should be spent. In fact my family owned quite a lot of land out there for more than 100 years. Why wouldn't I be interested? I had the opportunity to buy the land from my father and continue to rent it out, but I finally decided against it.
Quote from: sixdogsmom on May 05, 2011, 06:05:02 PM
This thread is getting off subject, I don't think it was intended to give a drubbing to any one person. :P
Right on.
Quote from: flintauqua on May 05, 2011, 02:58:12 PM
Ross,
The question she asked was:
"Might I ask why it matters so much that EK activities not be listed on your website? Isn't it used as a sort of community bulletin board for the benefit of any interested people? No?"
How does the size of the community have anything to do with the appropriateness of having community organizations and their activities on a municipal or county website?
It is not my web site. It is the County Government web site.
No the web site is not used as a community bulletin board.
Just as the crisis notification system is not a community notification system for Elk Konnected, LLC
or any other company. But Elk Konnected, LLC thought that because they have a member on the County Commissioners they thought the systems are there for their unauthorized use.
How do they do it in Arkansas? Do they compare apples and oranges?
She was comparing apples and oranges. A city web site and a county web site.
Comparing our community to her community. Her town something like 28,000 people and our county 3,000 maybe.
Elk Konnected, LLC is no different than any other company in Elk County. The rest of the companies can have a button under links to take a person to their web site as provided by the county government.
What is so special about Elk Konnected, LLC over the other companies.
It was the County Commissioners that broached the subject to the County Commissioners and she was doing her civic duty.
Good lady.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 05, 2011, 06:16:35 PM
That's ok Six, it does mention gorillas in the title. Besides I'm wearing my fireproof clothes. ;D That just made my point. 2008 wasn't so very long ago. No, I don't comment on everything. I have spurts of comment when you talk about something I am interested in and then I go away when it has run itself out. Actually, we had hoped to come out again for a couple of weeks at the end of May, but now I'm too busy, the gas prices are prohibitive and I don't think I would be welcome. No point in coming out just to be shot at. :-\ By the way, up until just a few years ago we still owned 240 acres in Elk County and paid taxes, yet we never made any comments on how they should be spent. In fact my family owned quite a lot of land out there for more than 100 years. Why wouldn't I be interested? I had the opportunity to buy the land from my father and continue to rent it out, but I finally decided against it.
You're funny. Keep the sense of humor.
I agree with Diana on owning land that you can't take care of yourself. We have enough absentee landowners in Elk County as it is. I know they pay their share of taxes and they take care of their properties, but their main interest is somewhere else. If everyone that owns land in Elk County actually lived on it, our population would be higher. and more money would be spent in Elk County.
That was exactly it.Thanks. I just didn't seem right to me.
Quote from: Wilma on May 05, 2011, 08:40:04 PM
I agree with Diana on owning land that you can't take care of yourself. We have enough absentee landowners in Elk County as it is. I know they pay their share of taxes and they take care of their properties, but their main interest is somewhere else. If everyone that owns land in Elk County actually lived on it, our population would be higher. and more money would be spent in Elk County.
You do realize that is not the real world. I own land in another state, and hve owned land for years in states that i did not reside. Its called investment. IF the county had the infrastructure, you would find more folks willing to live on the land. But like most small towns across america, they do not embrace change. Most small towns are run by one or two families and that is the death knell of any town. Seen it happen many times. They prohibit the change that is necessary for growth as they want it to stay the saeme little small town.
At any rate, As long as it is small and population dwindles that means less people to bother those of us that like to be left alone to do as they want.
:)
Quote from: srkruzich on May 05, 2011, 09:29:00 PM
You do realize that is not the real world. I own land in another state, and hve owned land for years in states that i did not reside. Its called investment. IF the county had the infrastructure, you would find more folks willing to live on the land. But like most small towns across america, they do not embrace change. Most small towns are run by one or two families and that is the death knell of any town. Seen it happen many times. They prohibit the change that is necessary for growth as they want it to stay the saeme little small town.
At any rate, As long as it is small and population dwindles that means less people to bother those of us that like to be left alone to do as they want.
:)
srkruzich don't take this as derragatory towards you it is not meant that way. I like living on my own land and a distance from relatives that still permits occassional visits from them. I like being left alone and away from family squabbles. And I don't mean that in an ugly way either.
However, what you have discribed sounds a lot like Elk County in several ways. Each of the communities want their own identity, but in my opinion certain factions in Howard want to control those small communities and their tax money's (cities property tax). What other benefit would there be to have one gov't centrally located in Howard for all the communities) That's the only change, I actually see Elk Konnected, LLC as trying to do. Control. I can't see the people of money wanting to bring anyone else into the county with more money than they have, because money is power and they would lose their control of the county. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.
Dear me, now we are worried about the amount of money people make! ::) So, let's sue that person that makes the most money in Elk County!!! >:( However, what you have discribed sounds a lot like Elk County in several ways. Each of the communities want their own identity, but in my opinion certain factions in Howard want to control those small communities and their tax money's (cities property tax). What other benefit would there be to have one gov't centrally located in Howard for all the communities) That's the only change, I actually see Elk Konnected, LLC as trying to do. Control. I can't see the people of money wanting to bring anyone else into the county with more money than they have, because money is power and they would lose their control of the county. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.
Do you actually know these people that you say Money is power??? Have you ever had a conversation?? I am not sure who these people are that you are talking about, but Elk Konnect WANTS community growth and they are striving for all the things that you say they are not!!! Get on the web page and read about it.
As for a LLC, it also said on the sight that I found information about, that the person that files that paperwork might not be the head person, could just be a lawyer or someone else.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 06:17:29 AM
Do you actually know these people that you say Money is power??? Have you ever had a conversation?? I am not sure who these people are that you are talking about, but Elk Konnect WANTS community growth and they are striving for all the things that you say they are not!!! Get on the web page and read about it.
IF they want community growth, then there will be an effort on the County Government to bring in industry. IF they are serious about growth, wheres the industrial park? Bring in industry and you will have growth. No county is going to grow if industry isn't brought in. THe local shops aren't going to supply the necessary jobs to bring in that growth. Just isn't going to happen.
Wind farm isn't going to bring enough to grow the county. Once the construction is done, thats it. The jobs are gone. It doesn't take a whole lot of people to maintain the farm.
And With the price of gas going higher every day, your going to find most folks are going to buy closer to the jobs.
Exactly, soccer games or whatever for the kids will do absolutely nothing for growth. Not that more stuff to do for the kids is bad, not in any way is that bad. More stuff to do is great, will keep kids out of trouble. However, I haven't really seen anything that would promote growth yet. If we want growth, money making businesses that can hire locals is essential. There's no other way around it. That's what the people here need to understand.
Heck I remember a while back my dad was looking in to buying the property next to the bar to put in a new office building, before we got the old grocery store. The Chamber of Commerce, yes... the Chamber of Commerce, wait read it again... the
Chamber of Commerce was a bit hesitant about the idea because there was a "nice tree" and picnic table or something like that. I know for the "nice tree" was mentioned as an excuse to deter the idea of putting an office there. Seriously? The people that are supposed to promote business doesn't want a new business on the main street where all other businesses are because of a single "nice tree". That's the kind of stuff that needs to change around here or the area WILL go under.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 05, 2011, 02:34:42 PM
Interesting. I guess there is just a difference in attitudes between your small towns and here. I did just get off the City of Newark web site as I was checking the summer camp schedules since I'll be involved in them again.The site has all the city doings coming up plus the UD Alumni weekend, the downtown Food and Brew Festival, run by local merchants ,Newark Night, hosted by the city in conjunction with local merchants and the "UDon't Need It"program which UD holds to get the college kids to bring their castoffs of furniture etc. to a central location rather than leave them dumped all over town. I don't think anybody cares that some things on the city website benefit so called "private" companies, see merchants and business people here in town.
They all pay taxes here one way or another.
Might I ask why it matters so much that EK activities not be listed on your website? Isn't it used as a sort of community bulletin board for the benefit of any interested people? No?
Unlike those businesses, EK is tax exempt. That was the complaint I remember reading, that EK was getting use of the site without compensating the county.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 06:17:29 AM
Dear me, now we are worried about the amount of money people make! ::) So, let's sue that person that makes the most money in Elk County!!! >:( However, what you have discribed sounds a lot like Elk County in several ways. Each of the communities want their own identity, but in my opinion certain factions in Howard want to control those small communities and their tax money's (cities property tax). What other benefit would there be to have one gov't centrally located in Howard for all the communities) That's the only change, I actually see Elk Konnected, LLC as trying to do. Control. I can't see the people of money wanting to bring anyone else into the county with more money than they have, because money is power and they would lose their control of the county. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I see it.
Do you actually know these people that you say Money is power??? Have you ever had a conversation?? I am not sure who these people are that you are talking about, but Elk Konnect WANTS community growth and they are striving for all the things that you say they are not!!! Get on the web page and read about it.
As for a LLC, it also said on the sight that I found information about, that the person that files that paperwork might not be the head person, could just be a lawyer or someone else.
You said,"Dear me, now we are worried about the amount of money people make!" That's falderal.
You said "Do you actually know these people that you say Money is Power??? Andrew Jackson made the statement. (March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845) was the seventh President of the United States (1829–1837). so no I don't talk to the dead.
You said. "Get on the web page and read about it." I have read their web site, all the pages. I have also read the company's web site they hired to control their so called community conversations, all of the pages. I have studied the pages, have you. Test to follow shortly, :) joking, not for real.
You said, "As for a LLC, it also said on the sight that I found information about, that the person that files that paperwork might not be the head person, could just be a lawyer or someone else.You said, " I just couldn't find that on their web site, unless it was just newly added. I am no longer concerned with the name on the paperwork, he can't hide but I understand why he might want to. So I won't out him at this time maybe never. I'd just like to know why every one else is hiding.
But hey you are entitled to your opinion same as me.
Just cause I have a million dollars, does that mean I have power?????
MT, actually I was referring to the taxes paid by the people on the EK committees, not EK LLC proper. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. They all live in Elk County I suppose, so they must pay one kind of taxes or another. Some have made a personal financial commitment to the project, all have made time commitments. As far as asking for tax money, needless to say I don't have details, but asking isn't the same as getting. If they, as a pass through or whatever legal arrangements were made, were able assist a project or hire someone with previous experience, it must have been approved from some available budget line. Since they have been active now for several years I would have thought all this would have been settled long ago.
I know some of the ideas were just brainstorming. Suppose you want to save money. You start with every single idea no matter how outrageous and then work your way to what can actually be done that will satisfy as many people as possible....a bit like collective bargaining. Unless someone asks me a question I've had my say and will shut up now. Thank you ahead of time for not ripping off my head or questioning my mental stability or suggesting someone beat me up for having an opinion.
So Ross.............just exactly what did the Elk County government do to you or not let you do that gave you such a hard-on to get em?
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 09:44:57 AM
Just cause I have a million dollars, does that mean I have power?????
"Money is Power"
Andrew Jackson made the statement. (March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845) was the seventh President of the United States (1829–1837).
I don't know if he declared a certain amount or in what situation.
Quote from: thatsMRSc2u on May 06, 2011, 10:44:20 AM
So Ross.............just exactly what did the Elk County government do to you or not let you do that gave you such a hard-on to get em?
How appalling, wow I so shocked at such profoud a statement. I am not upsett with Elk Government, perhaps a little dismayed that they won't disclose who they are giving money to when Elk Konnected asks for money. I do believe they probably know. I haven't bad mouthed anyone. I had simply asked questions. It is a civic duty just like voting. Everyone in the county who pays taxes should be asking the same questions as good citizens of the county. However, they have the right to be silent if they so chose.
I am so amazed that you feel that strongly about my asking questions to find the need to use such language.
QuoteI am so amazed that you feel that strongly about my asking questions to find the need to use such language.
I could care less whether you ask questions or not.......the insinuating way you do it is just a LITTLE irritating......you are obviously barkin up the wrong tree badgerin people on here about things they dont know........as for people "owning up" to donating to EKonnected on here why the hell would they after readin these threads???You would be badgerin THEM then and I'm pretty sure they dont want that pain in the you know what cause I sure wouldn't and they dont HAVE to answer to anybody for who or what they donate to...........as for "such language" GIVE me a break. I'm plainspoken....so? Spare me the "oh my I cant imagine why you are taking such a tone with me after all the nice things I've said" spiel.
Now YOU go have a nice day
You sure know how to sum it up MrsC2u.
Quote from: mtcookson on May 06, 2011, 08:22:28 AM
Exactly, soccer games or whatever for the kids will do absolutely nothing for growth. Not that more stuff to do for the kids is bad, not in any way is that bad. More stuff to do is great, will keep kids out of trouble. However, I haven't really seen anything that would promote growth yet. If we want growth, money making businesses that can hire locals is essential. There's no other way around it. That's what the people here need to understand.
Bingo! I think it was Ross who identified the 'lollipop' factor. Lollipops are great, satisfy in the short run, but not very long lasting, and you can't feed a family on them.
More information we don't have....
We believe EK is a tax exempt company. Could the exemption be under IRS Section 501(c)(3)? We don't know, of course. And even asking is considered a social faux pax in some circles. But if so, here's some info from our friends at the IRS...
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.
Exempt Purposes - Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)(3)
The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals. The term charitable is used in its generally accepted legal sense and includes relief of the poor, the distressed, or the underprivileged; advancement of religion; advancement of education or science; erecting or maintaining public buildings, monuments, or works; lessening the burdens of government; lessening neighborhood tensions; eliminating prejudice and discrimination; defending human and civil rights secured by law; and combating community deterioration and juvenile delinquency.
Lobbying
In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.
Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.
An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.
Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.
Inurement/Private Benefit - Charitable Organizations
A section 501(c)(3) organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, such as the creator or the creator's family, shareholders of the organization, other designated individuals, or persons controlled directly or indirectly by such private interests. No part of the net earnings of a section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. A private shareholder or individual is a person having a personal and private interest in the activities of the organization.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 06:17:29 AM
As for a LLC, it also said on the sight that I found information about, that the person that files that paperwork might not be the head person, could just be a lawyer or someone else.
You're getting there. Now, the registered agent and registered address is the point of contact for the Secretary of State and the person and place where legal service of summons is to be made on the company. The registered agent does not, however, need to be an admitted member of an LLC. It could be anyone, but is often the attorney representing the company. In the case of EK, the registered agent would be Mr. Fish, whom many of you know.
There was a great man that feed 1,000's on couple loaves of bread!! (Can't remember how many loaves exactly)!
I'm not saying that you don't have the right to know. You have the right, but how is it that I who works 12 hours a day, never really gets much adult conversation, know many members of Elk Konnect???? I really don't get out much. But the ones that I have seen I have asked them some of these questions that are posted on here deny paying to join, they have just joined the group of their own free will, yet you don't seem to understand that part I know is true. I don't understand.
Do any of you remember when Helm's Tire's openned up??? I know that if it wasn't for the help that a one Charlie Durbin gave me, I might not have opened the doors to my daycare. He used to be the Elk County Economic Developer, before Laura Fry and Jennifer. He helped me to understand and develop my business plan and all the underlying things that you do before you start up a business. And YES, I was using an Elk County employ to help me start up my business. That is their job, to develop jobs. He did that. I have a job, and I do have a part time helper. So, that created 1 1/2 jobs for the county. To me, that was a good thing. Many of you have knocked him down a time or two for the way that he believes and his opinions. This is why so many of us are defending Elk Konnect. Not that you are not entitled to your opinions and your answers, but if you don't like them you poke at them just like some little kid does at school.
I also believe that in this economic times we are having, there is no shot of getting big companies in to rural towns for awhile. So, why not be happy with getting the wind mill workers and jobs the short time that we get them??? And another thing, with the economy the way it is, shouldn't all the communities stick together??? I mean, I always thought that working together and trying to get along was a thing that parents taught their kids. I try my hardest to instill that in my girls!! Maybe if everyone would see some positive in some things, then just maybe these communities could grow.
I know that I am just blowing hot air to most of you, I keep telling myself I will keep my opinions to myself, but I'm a little stubborn, plus I also have learned the hard way you have to fight for things that you believe in. I believe in Longton, Moline, Grenola, Severy, and Howard and all the communities that are part of Elk Konnect!! I believe that each of the communities have such positive things about them that they are worth standing up for!!!
If I was one of the members of Elk Konnected, I wouldn't answer one of your questions on here. You have proven to alot of people that you won't listen to the truth, nor will you except the truth.
Quote from: thatsMRSc2u on May 06, 2011, 11:53:52 AM
I could care less whether you ask questions or not.......the insinuating way you do it is just a LITTLE irritating......you are obviously barkin up the wrong tree badgerin people on here about things they dont know........as for people "owning up" to donating to EKonnected on here why the hell would they after readin these threads???You would be badgerin THEM then and I'm pretty sure they dont want that pain in the you know what cause I sure wouldn't and they dont HAVE to answer to anybody for who or what they donate to...........as for "such language" GIVE me a break. I'm plainspoken....so? Spare me the "oh my I cant imagine why you are taking such a tone with me after all the nice things I've said" spiel.
Now YOU go have a nice day
You said," badgerin people on here about things they dont know" I haven't asked anyone to respond, that is of their on volition.
Just like your response above, I didn't ask you to go to all that trouble. You are free to ignore my posts as well.
You said,"the insinuating way you do it is just" I jsut don't understand this line, a question is a question. Please explain if you wish.
You said, "as for people "owning up" to donating to EKonnected---You would be badgerin THEM You apparently misread something. I said I don't care who donated. You can go back and read what I said if you want.
And I always do have a good day, thank you.
Have a great weekend.
What.....no one is willing to commit a social faux paux to get the answers? PLEASE go ahead and commit one so we can find something else to obsess over...and if I misspelled a word or used dots....I don't give a rats butt. Ha Ha Ha
Quote from: Patriot on May 06, 2011, 04:59:34 PM
You're getting there. Now, the registered agent and registered address is the point of contact for the Secretary of State and the person and place where legal service of summons is to be made on the company. The registered agent does not, however, need to be an admitted member of an LLC. It could be anyone, but is often the attorney representing the company. In the case of EK, the registered agent would be Mr. Fish, whom many of you know.
Ha, ha Patriot,
You beat me to it.
I thought that was secret.
I wasn't going to out him.
Nice guy I hear.
Quote from: Ross on May 06, 2011, 05:07:43 PM
Ha, ha Patriot,
You beat me to it.
I thought that was secret.
I wasn't going to out him.
Nice guy I hear.
So, what you saying it's more of a personal thing??? Mr. Fish is a wonderful man. He would help anyone out if he could. I have NEVER seen him be anything but nice to everyone. Maybe, this is all a personal attack on the group, kind of like bullying. Are we in Jr. High again??????? ;D
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 04:59:58 PM
... many members of Elk Konnect???? I really don't get out much. But the ones that I have seen I have asked them some of these questions that are posted on here deny paying to join, they have just joined the group of their own free will, yet you don't seem to understand that part I know is true. I don't understand...
...If I was one of the members of Elk Konnected, I wouldn't answer one of your questions on here. You have proven to alot of people that you won't listen to the truth, nor will you except the truth.
It seems you, and many, are failing to make a very important legal distinction. "Member" as you are using it is NOT an "admitted member" under Kansas law. You don't 'join' an LLC, you are 'admitted' by action of the other admitted members. Just making a donation or volunteering or otherwise supporting the LLC's causes does not make one a legal member of the company.
As for truth, what 'truths' have been offered and not accepted? All I've seen are is a lot of talk and parroting of 'EK has done good things'. Others here have pointed this out as well. Their positive acts have been acknowledged several times. Information about their admitted membership and other questions have not been addressed. And at this point, it's becoming obvious that the hidden truths will not be answered informally. That was my point in the post that started this thread. When a company has an apparent close relationship with government and honest, factual answers to questions about that relationship are ignored and replaced with rhetoric and unrelated claims, then it is not the questioners who evade the truth.
Quote from: Ross on May 06, 2011, 05:07:43 PM
Ha, ha Patriot,
You beat me to it.
I thought that was secret.
I wasn't going to out him.
Nice guy I hear.
It's not about 'outing' anyone. Mr. Fish's status as EK's registered agent is a matter of public record and was posted on this forum days ago. Richard Fish, to my knowledge, is a very personable & professional individual with a bang up history in the Kansas banking industry.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 05:10:59 PM
So, what you saying it's more of a personal thing??? Mr. Fish is a wonderful man. He would help anyone out if he could. I have NEVER seen him be anything but nice to everyone. Maybe, this is all a personal attack on the group, kind of like bullying. Are we in Jr. High again??????? ;D
Take a deep breath, Lookatmeknow. Nobody is picking on Mr. Fish.
Quote from: Patriot on May 06, 2011, 05:25:19 PM
It's not about 'outing' anyone. Mr. Fish's status as EK's registered agent is a matter of public record and was posted on this forum days ago. Richard Fish, to my knowledge, is a very personable & professional individual with a bang up history in the Kansas banking industry.
My apologies, that was a poor choice of words.
Quote from: Ross on May 06, 2011, 05:56:41 PM
My apologies, that was a poor choice of words.
No problem. I've thrown out some stuff that was misstated many times.
How much land do you own in other states, Steve? Is that the reason that you don't have enough to live on now? I don't believe in owning more than you can take care of. When the cost of keeping something exceeds the proceeds from it, it is time to get rid of it. Bad business there, Steve.
Quote from: Wilma on May 06, 2011, 06:10:40 PM
How much land do you own in other states, Steve? Is that the reason that you don't have enough to live on now? I don't believe in owning more than you can take care of. When the cost of keeping something exceeds the proceeds from it, it is time to get rid of it. Bad business there, Steve.
Wilma, YOU Might think its bad business, but the simple fact is that Land is the safest investment on the planet. Its kinda hard for it to disappear unlike stocks, bonds, government securities, ect. It is paid for, been paid for for almost 20 years and has only grown over the last 20 years even now with the "housing" bubble that has burst and threatens to burst again, I won't lose money in my investment. It is a rainy day fund so to speak. Depends on what i want to do. Used to have land in montana, arkansas, and kentucky til i made 10 times the original price and sold it. Shrug. Land is land and quite frankly who needs to take care of it. God does that better than i can. :)
PERSONALLY IF this place here had forrest on it, i would let it go and live in it. I don't have to have and could care less about a lawn that you put chemicals on and weed repellent. IN fact, i use no chemical on my place. I have a pasture mixed with fescue, goldenrod, chickweed, and all kinds of weeds. It looks a hell of a lot prettier when they bloom than dull ole pasture grass.
Investment land is only that investment. its benefit outweighs the cost. So what if i pay tax on the land. divide the tax up by 12 and its not a ton of money. I am surprised that you would not understand the value of saving. Saving takes sacrifice and if i have to forgo 4 meals a month to pay for a investment then so be it.
You see, I have a goal besides instant gratification. Instant gratification is what is destroying this country completely. I save for what i want and need and when i finally buy it, its PAID for not charged, or owed on.
The only thing i owe on is this house. And thats ONLY because it pays me to make payments on it at this low a interest rate i have than to sell my land and pay for it outright. I am making more money in the long run keeping the land and making payments.
As far as bad business, Lets ask some of the businesmen here. IS it bad business to invest hold on to it, when it is growing? Is it bad business to make payments on a house when the interest rate on the house is lower than the increase of value on the property? Is it bad business to sacrifice to keep the investment?
One more thing, while i am sacrificing to keep what i have, i in no way am sucking off of welfare. I don't live in a govt house, i don't get govt foodstamps, i don't get medicaid. In other words i pay my own way
Very well put srkruzich. An education like you just gave is priceless.
And yet you complain about everything. You act as if you don't have two pennies to rub together. For your information, I, too, do not owe a dime to anyone, my home and other property is paid for, I have what I want when I want it and I don't expect anyone to give me anything. I don't buy what I can't pay for and I don't own anything that I can't take care of or pay for it to be taken care of. Yet, I have not earned millions or inherited a fortune. What I have is what my husband and I accumulated from nothing without college degrees or high paying jobs. I have even been able to help my children at times when they needed help. Now my children are close and care about me.
Sir, you do not a have monopoly on how to live and how best to do it. If you can't afford this or afford that of the things that you need and would make your life easier, instead of complaining about it, sell some of the land you say you own. Why hang on to it? Wouldn't it be better to enjoy some of the benefits now while you need it? Is there going to be a better time to take care of yourself? Are you suddenly going to get younger and need more or are you going to get married and leave it all to your wife? Or better yet, take it all with you when you go?
Steve, very good investment. Last I knew they don't make land anymore. I don't give a rats ass whether you have two pennies to rub together or not. My congratulations to you on not owing anyone a damn dime (except for your house). I wish I was the same way. There are people in this county who have a helluva lot of land; land that is not even being used. I don't hear anyone telling them maybe they should sell their land. I done just that, sold my land, in Sedan, three separate pieces of property, when I moved up here to Longton. I realize Sedan was only 18 miles, it's not like Montana, Kentucky or Arkansas, but it gave us enough money to buy our place here outright. Now we've purchased a 2nd piece of property in Longton and are currently living on it (which was ALSO paid for outright). I do not wish to sell the original property we bought because I will live here and die here. And although I have a very small amount of money saved back, NO ONE will tell me what the hell to do with my life, liberty and property.----MR. KSHillbilly
Quote from: Wilma on May 07, 2011, 07:41:12 PM
And yet you complain about everything. You act as if you don't have two pennies to rub together. For your information, I, too, do not owe a dime to anyone, my home and other property is paid for, I have what I want when I want it and I don't expect anyone to give me anything. I don't buy what I can't pay for and I don't own anything that I can't take care of or pay for it to be taken care of. Yet, I have not earned millions or inherited a fortune. What I have is what my husband and I accumulated from nothing without college degrees or high paying jobs. I have even been able to help my children at times when they needed help. Now my children are close and care about me.
Complain about everything? Lets put it this way, no one can complain about everything, i do have a right to object and voice my objections about whatever i want. Shrug. I don't buy what i can't pay for either. so what is your point wilma? You know you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Now i don't know why high paying job is a bad thng, and college degrees are not evil either, in fact, those degrees prepare for a persons future.
QuoteSir, you do not a have monopoly on how to live and how best to do it.
Sure i do. It works for me. Simply put it takes preparation along with education, along with smart work to make it today. Also takes sacrifice of which i know about a hell of a lot more than you do. Unless you've been in the streets in your life, you don't know what it takes to pull yourself out of it without help from anyone.
QuoteIf you can't afford this or afford that of the things that you need and would make your life easier, instead of complaining about it, sell some of the land you say you own.
Because selling the land would cut my nose off to spite my face. It would fubar the future. I don't know what it is i complain about except this fubar'd government that we have to deal with, federal, state and county.
QuoteWhy hang on to it? Wouldn't it be better to enjoy some of the benefits now while you need it? Is there going to be a better time to take care of yourself? Are you suddenly going to get younger and need more or are you going to get married and leave it all to your wife? Or better yet, take it all with you when you go?
I hang on to it because one of these days, we might not be able to even afford a loaf of bread, or even pay the tax on our paid for houses, and we are screwed royally. Then i can sell what i have to take care of me for much more than it is worth now. Thats why you have savings you know, investments, things that grow in value, things that you put in a little at a time by NOT going out to toots, or NOT going to the movies, or not buying a steak and eating chicken instead.
Like i said unless you've had NOTHING but the clothes on your back, you haven't had hard times.
Quote from: kshillbillys on May 07, 2011, 08:46:55 PM
Steve, very good investment. Last I knew they don't make land anymore. I don't give a rats ass whether you have two pennies to rub together or not. My congratulations to you on not owing anyone a damn dime (except for your house). I wish I was the same way. There are people in this county who have a helluva lot of land; land that is not even being used. I don't hear anyone telling them maybe they should sell their land. I done just that, sold my land, in Sedan, three separate pieces of property, when I moved up here to Longton. I realize Sedan was only 18 miles, it's not like Montana, Kentucky or Arkansas, but it gave us enough money to buy our place here outright. Now we've purchased a 2nd piece of property in Longton and are currently living on it (which was ALSO paid for outright). I do not wish to sell the original property we bought because I will live here and die here. And although I have a very small amount of money saved back, NO ONE will tell me what the hell to do with my life, liberty and property.----MR. KSHillbilly
Kool, I am one who has invested for a long time, Also had the damn good jobs that paid good. Hard times hit, and IF i didn't have the investments i had i would have probably died. My land is the one thing i have held on to, it has survived markets crashing, ect, ect, and Was even living on it for a while til i realized i couldn't achieve building on it with my health. SO i moved out here cause i found a house cheap. FUnny thing when i first moved here, folks promptly told me i paid way too much for this place. I laughed about it cause this place if i were able to pick it up and take it back to southeast with me would sell for 200k. Even with the old house. 32k doesn't even buy a decent truck these days. :)
::) :P :-X
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 05:10:59 PM
So, what you saying it's more of a personal thing??? Mr. Fish is a wonderful man. He would help anyone out if he could. I have NEVER seen him be anything but nice to everyone. Maybe, this is all a personal attack on the group, kind of like bullying. Are we in Jr. High again??????? ;D
Absolutely no one has said anything deragatory about Mr. Fish quit the contrary. Even what you quoted said he is a nice guy. I even apologized for using a poor choice of words in what you quoted. And there has been no attack on any group. Only questions with a failure of anyone answering. This is simply trying to have a discussion. So where does the bullying come in? We have even praised some of what you call a group are doing. I just don't understand your point.
If you got answers to all the questions you are asking, what would it change?
Quote from: Wilma on May 08, 2011, 07:29:47 AM
If you got answers to all the questions you are asking, what would it change?
Knowledge it would change from lack of knowledge.
It is like I am talking to a wall. Many people do not wish to answer your questions on here. Go to Mr. Fish ask him your questions, you know he is connected with this organization. how hard is that??? I have to go to 4-H now, which by the way I give my time and efforts to support!!!
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 08, 2011, 03:33:31 PM
It is like I am talking to a wall. Many people do not wish to answer your questions on here. Go to Mr. Fish ask him your questions, you know he is connected with this organization. how hard is that??? I have to go to 4-H now, which by the way I give my time and efforts to support!!!
You know I might just go visit Mr. Fish tomorrow. I'll let you know hw that goes.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on May 06, 2011, 10:04:30 AM
MT, actually I was referring to the taxes paid by the people on the EK committees, not EK LLC proper. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. They all live in Elk County I suppose, so they must pay one kind of taxes or another.
But unless those people are now paying more in taxes due to being a part of EK LLC then it still was not being paid for. Businesses actually pay taxes and collect sales tax as well, that is way different than tax payers now sitting on a committee (unless they now for some reason pay more taxes for doing so).
Quote from: thatsMRSc2u on May 06, 2011, 11:53:52 AM...irritating.
Looks who's talking.
Quote from: Lookatmeknow!! on May 06, 2011, 04:59:58 PMI also believe that in this economic times we are having, there is no shot of getting big companies in to rural towns for awhile.
We don't even need a big company right off the bat, we need growth of any kind. A small shop that hires a few people, like Sweet and Spicy for instance, can really help. A big company would be great, especially one that can bring in outside money, but even if we just got a few small businesses to hire more people to promote growth that will help. As more people are hired, the local governments will start making more money that can be put into improvements that could help get the larger businesses and you're set. Make this a good area for businesses, like lowering taxes and sustain or add the necessary infrastructure (within reason of course), and they can come.
QuoteIf I was one of the members of Elk Konnected, I wouldn't answer one of your questions on here. You have proven to alot of people that you won't listen to the truth, nor will you except the truth.
From what I've seen, they haven't really been given any answers to their questions so how are they not listening to so called "truth"?
Quote...irritating.
Looks who's talking.
Did I irritate you?? My bad ::)
Since I no longer live there I am no longer going to comment on local topics.
Quote from: thatsMRSc2u on May 10, 2011, 10:44:32 AM
Did I irritate you?? My bad ::)
Since I no longer live there I am no longer going to comment on local topics.
I happen to know mtcookson and I think he is one of the nicest people in Elk County.
Quote from: Ross on May 10, 2011, 01:32:06 PM
I happen to know mtcookson and I think he is one of the nicest people in Elk County.
I haven't met a Cookson I didn't like. They all seem to be great people!
WIth them, to sum it up, What you see is what you get! :)
Quote from: thatsMRSc2u on May 10, 2011, 10:44:32 AM
Did I irritate you?? My bad ::)
Since I no longer live there I am no longer going to comment on local topics.
Most of your posts irritate me, honestly. Doesn't mean you have to stop though, I was just saying. ;D
Quote from: Ross on May 10, 2011, 01:32:06 PM
I happen to know mtcookson and I think he is one of the nicest people in Elk County.
Thanks! Although you might be thinking of my uncle up at the hardware store, not sure though. Not that I'm a mean guy or anything, I try to be nice, but he's the better known Mark Cookson around here. I'm usually hidden away at home on the computer or in the garage tinkering with a car. (http://machzracing.com/pictures/smilies/rofl.gif)
Quote from: mtcookson on May 10, 2011, 01:58:46 PM
Most of your posts irritate me, honestly. Doesn't mean you have to stop though, I was just saying. ;D
Thanks! Although you might be thinking of my uncle up at the hardware store, not sure though. Not that I'm a mean guy or anything, I try to be nice, but he's the better known Mark Cookson around here. I'm usually hidden away at home on the computer or in the garage tinkering with a car. (http://machzracing.com/pictures/smilies/rofl.gif)
LOL But hey if you are like him that's a big plus.
Quote from: Ross on May 10, 2011, 01:32:06 PM
I happen to know mtcookson and I think he is one of the nicest people in Elk County.
so do I he went to school with my sons and I figure he's just fine.
QuoteMost of your posts irritate me, honestly. Doesn't mean you have to stop though, I was just saying.
I irritate a lot of people.......it happens....I dont really care about local politics. Ross' manner just irritated me.
QuoteWIth them, to sum it up, What you see is what you get!
Same here
Quote from: thatsMRSc2u on May 10, 2011, 04:30:11 PM
so do I he went to school with my sons and I figure he's just fine.
I irritate a lot of people.......it happens....I dont really care about local politics. Ross' manner just irritated me.
Same here
ou
You should have made that clear in the beginning so I could have personally apologized.
Well, golly. I am so sorry I irritated you so much. I was actually conversing with other people. And I only provided what little information I could glean from the company Elk Konnected, LLC. And then I simply asked questions. And I sure hope that others enjoyed the conversation. I know it's not in a circle of chairs but it is still a conversation.
I sure hope you recover okay from the irritation, with an Elk Konnected, LLC positive attitude. Please accept my apology. Ross
QuoteI sure hope you recover okay from the irritation, with an Elk Konnected, LLC positive attitude. Please accept my apology. Ross
Dude...just leave it alone.