Long Live The Constitutionalist Sheriff!
-Chuck Baldwin
One of the tragedies of the current misled, uninformed, and otherwise preoccupied American citizenry is the seeming apathy regarding the importance and necessity of electing constitutionalist sheriffs. In many ways, State governors and county sheriffs just might be the most important elected offices in America. It is no hyperbole to say that State governors and county sheriffs form the last line of defense against tyranny and oppression. If our governors and sheriffs do not understand the principles of freedom and federalism, there is virtually zero protection against the abuses of liberty–save the right of the people to personally and individually defend liberty via the principles of God-given Natural Law.
Hence, a freedom-minded sheriff is invaluable to liberty's defense. And perhaps at no time in America's history has it been more necessary that we elect freedom-loving sheriffs than it is today, what with the ever-growing propensity of the federal government to trample and usurp State and constitutional protections of freedom.
For example, in an almost totally non-reported incident, an armed conflict between federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM) agents and a Nevada Sheriff's SWAT team was averted only by virtue of the fact that, at the last minute, BLM backed down from the impending confrontation.
For the record: federal police agencies have a long history of committing illegal searches and seizures (even assault and murder–can anyone say, "Ruby Ridge" or "Waco"?) against the US citizenry. But BLM might be the most notorious federal police agency of all. The tactics BLM employs against western landowners sometimes border on Nazi-like. When the late, great Helen Chenoweth was an Idaho congresswoman, she tried to raise awareness of (and opposition to) this out-of-control federal agency. I urge readers to read Rep. Chenoweth's interview with Michael Reagan about this subject. See it at:
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/blm.html
According to Rep. Chenoweth, "BLM is taking onto themselves law enforcement that is normally saved for the State, law enforcement over motor vehicles. They've written into the regulation without authority from Congress, the ability to stop vehicles or to search people, to search a place or a vehicle without warrant or process; to be able to seize without warrant or process any piece of evidence and to test people for potential DUI (driving under the influence)."
read more: http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=2022
I wonder what Janet would say about this. ;)
What the article says is correct. The highest law enforcement authority is the county Sheriff. No federal agent of any kind can do anything in the county without the Sheriff's knowledge and approval and yes the Sheriff can arrest them and put them in jail if he/she deems it appropriate and necessary.
Diane,
You wonder what Janet would say about this. She is fully aware of this fact and would probably agree with the content of the article. I have talked to her about this very thing several years ago. I would guess that most Sheriff's know their constitutional authority, but as the article states, they have to have the intestinal fortitude to use and enforce it.
All our Sheriff's office does is serve various papers, move prisoners around and hold Sheriff's sales.
Diane,
I'm sure they do a lot more than what you see. A sheriff has a lot of responsibility and a good percentage of what they do would not be common knowledge to the public.
Quote from: Sarge on August 15, 2010, 07:14:59 PM
Diane,
I'm sure they do a lot more than what you see. A sheriff has a lot of responsibility and a good percentage of what they do would not be common knowledge to the public.
How right you are, Sarge. I have met the man numerous times through my HOA and our all-volunteer civilian posse whom I have many friends with. The man is a walking, talking, get things done yesterday type of guy. He's 78 but you'd never know it. Phil Gordon, Mayor of Phoenix hates Arpaio's guts. No love lost between Joe and the little whimp Gordon. He takes no crap from anyone... county commissioners, the mayors and city councils within maricopa co., FBI.... he is strictly "by the book" lawman, the best we've ever had.Sheriff Joe Arpaio - Maricopa County, Arizona
http://www.mcso.org/
Sunday Aug. 15, 2010 - Sheriff Joe Arpaio had lunch today with Ted Nugent and swore him in as a special deputy.
http://twitpic.com/2e46h7
Hey Sarge, guess what? I tried to tell you that in Delaware, Mike Walsh, the Sheriff and the 7 deputies don't do police duties, they support the court system by transporting prisoners and serving various papers. You told me I was wrong, but at least in a nice polite way. It kinda hurt my feelings because I knew better, but I let it go.
In our Aug. 15 paper is a nice article about the Sheriff. Capitol Police in Wilmington will be taking over the prisoner transport duty. "Sheriff Mike Walsh said shedding the transportation and detention work will free up two of his 7 deputies to process a backlog of sheriff's sales on foreclosed properties." Having the two deputies available to deliver foreclosure notices could create a windfall of $500,000.00 more for the county from the 4% profit it gets from selling foreclosed homes and land." "Getting out of the prisoner transportation business also eases a liability the county has in having deputies handle violent offenders, Walsh said." "Why not have police do police things and let me do the things we do?'' Walsh said.
In many states sheriffs do a lot more and have a lot of power. Not so here. Now they will be just serving papers and running the sheriff's sales. Is this important? Not at all. But not all states have the supreme power invested in their sheriffs.
Same situation for the city and county of Denver and the city and county of Broomfield in Colorado.
In these areas, the city police handle all police duties and the sheriff handles only court duty.
I believe it is the same for the city and county of St. Louis, Mo.
Well now, I just learned something new. Thank you.
Well, Diane, that's sad to hear, because your Sheriff has the authority and responsibility that the article speaks of. He has chosen not to accept that responsibility and authority. Apparently that is the same situation with Denver and Bloomfield. I wonder who does the law enforcement and investigations outside of city limits. The police have no authority outside of the city limits.
Sarge, it's different here. New Castle County Police handle the police activities outside incorporated areas, assisted by the DSP with capital crimes, in NCC. Little towns that don't have their own municipal police in the rest of the state are covered by DSP. Our State Police are not just a Highway Patrol as they are in many states. DSP handles schools and state property too. DSP also have helicopters for police work and can literally drop in where they are needed and fly someone to our big trauma center if needed. Remember we are a very small state. NCC voted many years ago to tax it's self to have our own county police. We also have mutual response agreements so nobody has to stop at a state or county line, and a first closest officer available agreement too. Our own fire police handle traffic duty at accident and such. They occasionally talk about merging NCCPD back with DSP but it never goes anywhere. The Sheriff is elected but his deputies are hired.
This concept was hard for me to grasp when I first came to Colorado. Living so close to the City and County of Denver and reading the Denver Post and the defunct Rocky Mountain News, it gradually sank in over a few years. When I lived in Missouri, I guess I was so far away from St. Louis that I never bothered to check it out. Since 1876, St. Louis has been the oldest city and county combination in the US.
Outside the "city limits of Denver," the adjoining applicable counties and cities provide police protection.
The land area of the City of Denver occupies the same land area as the County of Denver thus the governing entity is officially called the City and County of Denver. The city police provide police support in the City and County of Denver. The sheriff provides court administration duties in the City and County of Denver.
It is the same for Broomfield, Colorado. The citizens of that city voted for the city and county concept in 2001. Aurora, Colorado, citizens voted the concept down about three years ago. The "Aurorans" were mainly concerned about the expense of building an Aurora County courthouse—so they remained in Arapahoe County. The City of Denver split off from Arapahoe County in the early 1900s to become the City and County of Denver. This same Arapahoe County was once part of Kansas]
I don't know that Kansas law allows for the city and county model but for illustration purposes assume that the citizens of Moline, for whatever reason, voted to come under the city and county concept and become the City and County of Moline. The current "Moline Police" would continue to provide police protection within the city limits as they do now. The new Moline County Sheriff would operate out of a new Moline County Courthouse and would provide only jail and sheriff administrative duties for the Moline County court, etc.
For sure, when a new county is created in this manner, there is no county seat war.
To make it possibly even more confusing we have no NCC court house freestanding in the county. The courthouse where we do jury duty is actually in the City of Wilmington, but serves the city and the county.
I thank you both for the clarification.
Rhode Island sheriffs also don't have the same duties that Kansas sheriffs do. Rhode Island sheriffs take care of transporting prisoners and serving civil papers and doing sheriff sales.
Here is what I found on the Rhode Island Sheriffs Department web site...
The Rhode Island State Sheriff's Department is a statewide law enforcement agency under the Department of Administration. Our primary duties include Courthouse Security, Prisoner Transport, Executive Protection for the Judiciary, Apprehension and Extradition of Wanted Persons, and Service of Process. We have 196 sworn and civilian personnel under the command of the State's Executive High Sheriff, Colonel Gary P. Dias.
It is the mission of the Rhode Island State Sheriffs to provide the highest level of services to the Rhode Island Judiciary and Rhode Island Criminal Justice System while maintaining the greatest degree of integrity, impartiality, and confidentiality; to treat all individuals with the utmost respect, dignity, and fairness; to work with the Department of Corrections, the Rhode Island State Police, the Rhode Island Capitol Police, and all law enforcement agencies in a spirit of cooperation; to protect and provide security for all who enter the Rhode Island Courts while maintaining the highest degree of professionalism and decorum.
Our Duties and Responsiblities Include:
•To provide courtroom, courthouse, and judicial security.
•To provide transportation and custody of inmates and prisoners scheduled for court appearances.
•To maintain control and security of prisoners and detainees.
•To provide for the security of the public while in State court facilities.
•To provide interstate extraditions and inmate transfers.
•To execute writs and civil process.
•To provide mutual aid to any state or municipal law enforcement agencies and the Department of Corrections when requested.
Sheriffs in Rhode Island are appointed by the governor and are not an elected office.
Thanks Janet. Similar, but not quite the same as here. R. I. is unusual too in that the entire little state is incorporated. Our Sheriff,Mike Walsh, is up for election this year and for the first time in many years might get beat. He has three much younger challengers.
Interesting thread. In Los Angeles county, there are 88 cities and towns. Some have their own police departments, (like ours), and many contract with the county sheriff for patrol services, emergency calls, etc., much like the city police. Los Angeles county also has marshals who do the warrant serving and other services. The courts use deputy sheriffs as bailiffs and county police as security for the entries to the courts (my son-in-law is one.) Throw in the California Highway Patrol and we have law enforcement all over the place. There is an intersection near my house that to the locals is just a main street running north and south. The street that intersects is just a main street running east and west. You do not want to get into a car accident in that intersection.
The intersection is divided up between the city police to the east and southwest, the sheriff to the northwest because that is an unincorporated area of the county and the CHP because that north/south street happens to be a state highway. When I used to listen to scanners in my younger days, I would hear actual dispatchers asking where in the intersection was the accident so the correct agency could by notified. You might not get assistance until they figure out who is liable. Fortunately, there is a fire station one-half block away which responds to everything.
Same with the fire protection. Some towns have their own fire department. We did for many years, until the city council decided it was cheaper to contract with the county fire department. So all the firemen changed from city employees to county employees, remained in the same fire stations and drove the same trucks, which were renamed for the county. Of course, like other places, there is a total response agreement where other engine companies from other parts of the county and city fire departments can back each other up. This is because of brush fires.
Incorporated and unincorporated can sometimes be a hassle like when you are looking for a certain address. For example, you are looking for the 500 block of 1st Street. So you are driving along and you see 100, 200, 300, 400 -----and then the next block you see 4000! That is because you crossed over from a city into the county.
Still it is interesting how each area handles their law enforcement.
Larryj
Forgot to mention----------our city of 40,000+ has three fire stations, more or less located to best serve the city area. So, we have three engine companies, but only one paramedic unit located in the main station downtown. When there is a call for medical or fire emergencies, the engine company closest and/or available responds. In my case, the aforementioned engine company near that intersection is less than a mile away. When they respond to a call on this street, the engine company arrives first. Of course, all firemen are qualified paramedics, but the engine company doesn't carry all the equipment the paramedic truck does. So the paramedics from the downtown station respond from about 2 miles away, getting there in second place. Now, the engine company can't transport anybody, nor can the paramedic utility truck, so they are followed by the ambulance which arrives last, but within minutes of the firemen. If the paramedics are not being called for another emergency, one of them will ride with you in the ambulance to the hospital, hooking up IV's, etc. This begins the parade. The engine company goes home. The ambulance starts for the hospital followed by the paramedic truck, because they have to pick up the paramedic that is with you and take him back to his station. With my insurance, I have to go five miles to another city for hospital care as well as general medical care. When I tell them I have that insurance, there is a moment of hesitation because they are leaving the area they serve, but they will take you there.
On a side note, when I feel that I have to go to emergency and still am able to travel by private car, I will not do that. Why? Because if I go to emergency without the paramedics, I will sit there a long time waiting to be seen unless, of course, my life is in danger. If I ride in a ambulance with a paramedic, I go right into the treatment area------no waiting. ;D
Funny how things work.
Larryj
Larry as far as emergency care you do have it figured out and I know you would not abuse it. You are right, we don't even go in the same door as the less urgent care car patients. But then there are the heart patients who should have gone by ambulance but don't want to bother us or don't want to wait and go by car. Christiana Care, our big trauma center estimates that about 75% of all their heart cases don't come in by ambulance.
I have never called 911 for my heart attacks. I have found it is much faster for me to go in myself. And when having one, you don't have any time to waste. I have never ever had to wait when i go in. I go in the ambulance doors and tell them i am having chest pain and i think its an attack and they immediately put me in the room and start hooking me up and grabbing TPA to shoot in me.
I know around here it takes far too long for emts to get to us. Its faster to drive me to wichita than to wait on the emt's.
Where do your emts come from? When my heart attack happened, here in Howard, the ambulance was here within minutes of being called. I knew what was happening and if we had tried to go by car I might not have made it. I had the best of care while my husband rode in front to direct the driver who had never taken a patient to my hospital in Wichita.
That is scary to me to have to drive so far to get to a hospital. I have been urbanized too long. I think I can understand why some of my older relatives moved from their farms to Howard in their golden years, because farming became too strenuous and they preferred an area closer to medical care and groceries, etc.
I had a flashback reading all this. When I was a teen baling hay west of Howard, one of the kids working with us fell off the hay wagon and the back tire rolled over his abdomen and chest. The hay wagon was halfway loaded so he got the heavy end. We loaded him in a car and drove into Howard and I think we went to the doctor's house as he was home that day or maybe the office had closed for the day as it was kind of late in the afternoon. Turns out he was okay, but he wore tire tracks on his chest for a long time until the bruises went away.
Larryj
I have had some people question my decision to move to Elk Co because of the distance from medical facilities. But it seems to me from being on this Forum for several years that everytime there is an emergency people talk about how well it is handled, so I'm not worried about it. Ultimately I think I will live longer in a more peaceful, laid back setting than I will in all this traffic everyday.
Quote from: Wilma on September 11, 2010, 09:56:11 AM
Where do your emts come from? When my heart attack happened, here in Howard, the ambulance was here within minutes of being called. I knew what was happening and if we had tried to go by car I might not have made it. I had the best of care while my husband rode in front to direct the driver who had never taken a patient to my hospital in Wichita.
Howard. When Sarahs baby died, last year, it took EMT's 45 minutes to get there and they are only 10 miles from howard.
I can drive to howard in 12 min from their house.
IF we had of had a working vehicle at that time that could haul Louis and i while we were giving cpr and sarah driving, we would have gone ourselves. :(
Quote from: Roma Jean Turner on September 11, 2010, 10:16:58 AM
I have had some people question my decision to move to Elk Co because of the distance from medical facilities. But it seems to me from being on this Forum for several years that everytime there is an emergency people talk about how well it is handled, so I'm not worried about it. Ultimately I think I will live longer in a more peaceful, laid back setting than I will in all this traffic everyday.
Well quite frankly roma, i have lived in areas where emt's took 30+ min to arrive when they were 5 min from my place. I am not all that confident in emt's. Cops are even worse.
I have had enough attacks to know when i am close to having another one. I notice things days before one would happen now days. I go in to the doc every 3 months and get checked. Its far easier to go in and check and correct a artery that is almost blocked than to go in and find out that its 100% blocked and they can't fix it.
We have four EMT ambulances at our four fire stations spread around our service district, plus back up from others nearby and several advanced life support Paramedic ambulances, one stationed at one of our fire stations and several others who aren't in our district but are close enough. The only time we might be a little slow is if we have a very serious accident that ties up all our ambulances at once and a cover up has to come in but the neighboring companies know that if something for us comes in near to their boundary line, they'll take it. Since we all hear each other they know what's happening and will make sure they are ready to roll. We do the same for them. We also have a "nearest ambulance available" policy so we might get an on the road dispatch if we are on the way back home from a hospital. Most of our patients go to the big Christians hospital but some patients prefer going to St Francis in Wilmington or the Wilmington Hospital which is part of the Christiana hospital system.
I know Steve knows I worry about going all the way to Wichita before there is any care given, but as long as he isn't driving, I guess its his choice. Of course he wouldn't need to wait once he gets there, but that means he doesn't even have any oxygen prior to arrival.The ambulance can treat in route. As the docs say, time is muscle. Steve did you ever check the dispatch time for the ambulance in Sarah's case or did it just seem like 45 minutes? No helicopter? We get people saying the same thing here and when someone checks for them it turns out to be only 8 or 10 minutes, or even less. We have to be out the door in 4 min. or less, usually way less because we have crews in the station. (Of course bad weather hurts us just like everyone else.) That is one of the give backs to living way out somewhere, no close services. Most people say it's worth it though. I grew up that way too.
no we timed it. I worked on her for 45 min before the sherrif showed up and then it took another 10 minutes for the EMT's to show up.
I know for a fact cause i looked at the clock as i was doing cpr. :(
On the time is muscle i know very well it is. I also know and have learned how to control the attack when it happens. Most people panic. That sends the heart rate up which creates more damage and more pain. I learned after my second one that if i calm down, breath deeply, regulate my heart beat that it will slow down the attack and in some cases allow enough blood to flow through to feed the muscle til i can get to the hospital.
I'm 25 miles from eureka i think, and 55 miles from my heart hospital. Eureka is not equipped to handle heart patients other than maybe give a tpa shot, and o2. they always send them in to wichita. Now if i do have an attack, i would know whether or not i could make it to wichita. After all, i lived with level 5 angina for 8 years. THere are levels to the angina that tell you how far away from a attack you are.
Besides, i usually keep a fresh bottle of nitro around all the time and i have no problem eating the nitros when i need them.
I believe you. It's just such a shame. Nitro makes a huge difference but eventually as the disease progresses may not do the trick someday. Please tell me you don't drive yourself to the hospital!
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 11, 2010, 11:50:48 AM
I believe you. It's just such a shame. Nitro makes a huge difference but eventually as the disease progresses may not do the trick someday. Please tell me you don't drive yourself to the hospital!
No not now, I have in the past when no one else was around to help. I think that time i was closer to the hospital than the emts were to me, and i didn't have a phone at that time, and you do what ya gotta do.
I think why you are surprised is that most of the places i have lived there are no FT EMT's. Only volenteer fire departments.
Steve, if you can drive from Sarah's house to Howard in 12 minutes, you are risking never getting here. Did you take into consideration the time it takes for the emts to get to the ambulance barn, get the ambulance out, ascertain the location (which in this case is not easy to find) and the best route to get there? Or consider the possibility that not enough emts were immediately available to make the run? Few of the law enforcement, maybe not any of them, know that area well enough to find their way without hesitation. If one ambulance was already out, there is every possibility that not enough qualified personnel was available to immediately respond to another call.
A few years back, my neighbor here in Howard at that time, had a massive heart attack. One ambulance was out, a law enforcement officer brought the other ambulance while another officer came in another vehicle. They were in a predicament because if the heart patient needed to be transported, they didn't have enough qualified personnel for the ride. As it turned out, the other ambulance got back in time, then was immediately sent out to an accident. My LPN daughter was prepared to do whatever was required. An ambulance from Eureka had been requested for the accident and were on their way, so they worked the accident while Howard took care of the heart patient. He had the best care possible, but it was too late even when the ambulance was called. You can't fault the emergency services for the inconvenience of the area.
Steve, we are a big volunteer fire company. We now have some paid EMTs for day time but the firefighters are all volunteer as are all the line officers and the rest of us EMTs are all volunteer. We take shifts so all hours are covered. Rarely do we ever have to wait for someone to go the the station to get the ambulance. We'd never make our four minute window that way. If there is a problem we can tone out our pagers for more people. Occasionally I've gone directly to the scene if I was close by. I do understand the problems of having so few people to help in rural areas. The other advantage we have have are the helicopters.
Quote from: Wilma on September 11, 2010, 12:33:32 PM
Steve, if you can drive from Sarah's house to Howard in 12 minutes, you are risking never getting here. Did you take into consideration the time it takes for the emts to get to the ambulance barn, get the ambulance out, ascertain the location (which in this case is not easy to find) and the best route to get there? Or consider the possibility that not enough emts were immediately available to make the run? Few of the law enforcement, maybe not any of them, know that area well enough to find their way without hesitation. If one ambulance was already out, there is every possibility that not enough qualified personnel was available to immediately respond to another call.
I never said they didn't do what they could or even a bad job. I only said it took over 45 min. That quite frankly no matter what is not an acceptable time for any EMT. I am just saying i am better off getting there myself and not waiting.
QuoteA few years back, my neighbor here in Howard at that time, had a massive heart attack. One ambulance was out, a law enforcement officer brought the other ambulance while another officer came in another vehicle. They were in a predicament because if the heart patient needed to be transported, they didn't have enough qualified personnel for the ride. As it turned out, the other ambulance got back in time, then was immediately sent out to an accident. My LPN daughter was prepared to do whatever was required. An ambulance from Eureka had been requested for the accident and were on their way, so they worked the accident while Howard took care of the heart patient. He had the best care possible, but it was too late even when the ambulance was called. You can't fault the emergency services for the inconvenience of the area.
Quite frankly whats the point of having them if they cannot respond to the emergency. That is the problem. I got to thinking about what you said about them finding the place. That is not even a excuse today anymore. We have GPS available. WHy don't they have GPS in the vehicles. We pay good money to have the 911 service, it is tied into our addys and GPS locations, there is no reason why someone has to hunt and search a map to find the place.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 11, 2010, 03:25:29 PM
Steve, we are a big volunteer fire company. We now have some paid EMTs for day time but the firefighters are all volunteer as are all the line officers and the rest of us EMTs are all volunteer. We take shifts so all hours are covered. Rarely do we ever have to wait for someone to go the the station to get the ambulance. We'd never make our four minute window that way. If there is a problem we can tone out our pagers for more people. Occasionally I've gone directly to the scene if I was close by. I do understand the problems of having so few people to help in rural areas. The other advantage we have have are the helicopters.
I wondered why they didn't send a helo when we called in a non-repsonsive infant call. That did not make sense to me to send out a ambulance. They knew she was in serious trouble if i am having to do cpr. I don't know. But i can't second guess anymore, shes gone and it won't make a bit of difference.
Anyway Again I have not said the EMT's or lawenforcement weren't good or anything like that, I just am saying the time frame to respond is absolutely unacceptable. Its just that in embers case it was way too long, in my case it would be way too long if i had an attack and if someone had a stroke, there goes that magic hour to get something done.
Steve, there is just nothing worse that what happened to that dear child but I don't know how it can be fixed when there are so few people .
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 11, 2010, 07:42:00 PM
Steve, there is just nothing worse that what happened to that dear child but I don't know how it can be fixed when there are so few people .
Like i said i am not blaming the EMTs or the sherriff. I think the county is woefully inadequate in the setup.
Is there anyway it could be improved that would be acceptable to people out there?
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 12, 2010, 08:18:52 AM
Is there anyway it could be improved that would be acceptable to people out there?
You know i have no idea other than having a ambulance based in each town in the county. That would improve things. One here, one in severy, one in howard and moline and longton. Doesn't have to be going 24 x7, just available for emt's to respond from those locations. If each town has firefighters, then they can surely have emt's too. And with what they ambulances charge to transport, it wouldn't take long to pay off the things. 700 dollar transport fee for a 50 mile transport.
I do know one thing everyone should have in their homes in case of emergency. That is one of the ventillators they use to do cpr with the fface mask and baloon. I don't know if anyone realizes but 45 min of breathing for someone even a infant is exhausting. And with a baby you have to be very careful not to breath full breaths.
About the only way that it could be improved would be to have enough money to hire enough people and have enough ambulances to have more than two available. Our paramedics are highly qualified, but it is difficult to keep qualified emts in this county when they can go somewhere else for more money. I think that all the law enforcement officers are qualified emts, also, unless things have changed. Part of the problem is personnel that is not familiar with our county. As in Sarah's case, giving directions to find her takes a little thought. You either have to take a winding road going west of town or go north on 400 to Rock Road, then west to Rd. 9, then south. There is no direct east-west road that comes close to her and no north-south road that goes directly to her. On the winding road, you have to know where to turn, as the road that goes west from Howard does not connect with Rd. 9. If you take Rock Road west to Rd. 9, you find another dilemma. When you reach Rd. 9, it goes north, but not south anywhere you can see. You have to go on west across a bridge, take a left curve that curves back to the east a bit and you are on Rd. 9. This isn't unique in Elk County. You can run into roads like this anywhere. You just have to be familiar with every bit of the county to be able to quickly find your destination.
Steve, are you talking about volunteer paramedics and emts? I think state regs require a paramedic on every run.
Marcia, what is the ambulance situation in Severy, now? They used to have one stationed there, I thought. How did that work?
That's a bag valve mask Steve and they are not very expensive (@ $25.00 ) because they are now disposable.That's a very good suggestion. One has to know how to get a seal on the face using the right sized mask and bag and keep the chin aimed up high. As long as the chest rises when you squeeze the bag, it's good. I have a set of three sizes in my car. Yes CPR is very tiring. You have to mentally disengage from everything around you, get in the rhythm and relax.
Wilma are your LEOs EMTs or First Responders? I can't see them needing EMT with all the clinical training.The First Responder course is very good for LEOs. Fewer hours and very targeted information with all the applied skills.
Quote from: Wilma on September 12, 2010, 09:14:02 AMhen you reach Rd. 9, it goes north, but not south anywhere you can see. You have to go on west across a bridge, take a left curve that curves back to the east a bit and you are on Rd. 9. This isn't unique in Elk County. You can run into roads like this anywhere. You just have to be familiar with every bit of the county to be able to quickly find your destination.
Your right the roads are quite a mess. But what i am talking about is having a gps in each vehicle, tied into the 911 service. EVERY HOUSE has gps coordinates associated with the address. 911 is supposed to have that displayed in a call.
IF you give the coordinates to the emts or i think they even have the devices where it is wired to the device through the radio and it will give not only fastest but most direct directions.
On that night, they did take 99 north to rock and west on rock 6 miles then south on rd 9. I really don't know why it took so long.
QuoteSteve, are you talking about volunteer paramedics and emts? I think state regs require a paramedic on every run.
I don't care if they are volenteer or are paid. I mean even someone who was a medic in the military is qualified to do the job.
OH and let me clarify something here. I am in no way upset with the Folks that responded. They did all they could do, and i know that those that were there were deeply affected by her death. The sherriff included. I think it ripped everyone apart that night.
I am just upset with the Lack of resources. IT shouldn't be this way. I dont know but i think that most folks would support a small increase in taxes to support more resources. Who knows. I sure don't.
I still have nightmares of Ember staring lifelessly into my eyes.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 12, 2010, 09:26:25 AM
That's a bag valve mask Steve and they are not very expensive (@ $25.00 ) because they are now disposable.That's a very good suggestion. One has to know how to get a seal on the face using the right sized mask and bag and keep the chin aimed up high. As long as the chest rises when you squeeze the bag, it's good. I have a set of three sizes in my car. Yes CPR is very tiring. You have to mentally disengage from everything around you, get in the rhythm and relax.
Wilma are your LEOs EMTs or First Responders? I can't see them needing EMT with all the clinical training.The First Responder course is very good for LEOs. Fewer hours and very targeted information with all the applied skills.
I used to have a red cross i think certification years and years ago, but i let it lapse due to the liabilities of having a certification. They would sue you back then if you preformed cpr with a cert, and the person didn't live or had damage. IF you did it without a certification you were protected under the good samaratin laws which prohibited anyone from suing for damages if you assisted. SO i haven't gotten my cert again. I know i probably need retraining but i dont' want the certification to protect myself.
I don't know if the ambulances are equipped with GPS or not. But, here, again is another expense. I hear certain people complaining about their taxes all the time now. Then they complain about the lack of services. Can't have it both ways, can we? Janet knew about the country roads and that was the reason she didn't want us living in that area. She and Lynn Wells were the only ones that knew how to find anyone out there. Now both of them are gone.
Quote from: Wilma on September 12, 2010, 10:26:42 AM
I don't know if the ambulances are equipped with GPS or not. But, here, again is another expense. I hear certain people complaining about their taxes all the time now. Then they complain about the lack of services. Can't have it both ways, can we? Janet knew about the country roads and that was the reason she didn't want us living in that area. She and Lynn Wells were the only ones that knew how to find anyone out there. Now both of them are gone.
well gps devices wouldn't raise taxes it can be fit into the maint budget of the vehicles. If i remember right, its about 1k per vehicle. And yeah i know folks holler bout taxes but this is something in a area like this that is truely needed. It would keep the EMTS from getting lost or making wrong turns.
Steve, I don't who told you that you could be sued for doing CPR with a certification. That's hooey! While it is true anyone can sue for anything, volunteers of any kind in most states are protected by their Good Sam laws ESPECIALLY if they HAVE certifications. The whole idea in taking the training is to assure people don't do CPR on someone who doesn't need it, and learn good technique.. CPR and AED are no guarantee of survival and never will be. Next year they'll be rolling out the new standards, including hands only CPR, no breaths. Gotta kill those suing rumors or it will never work. The idea is get MORE people to try to help, not fewer because of threatened lawsuits. A try at a rescue is always better than doing nothing. Most lawyers won't touch lawsuits involving volunteers and most judges would throw it out because it would destroy the volunteer system if people could suddenly sue willy nilly and win. Both Red Cross and The American Heart Association stand behind their classes and card carriers. If our volunteers were ever sued wrongfully we'd lock the ambulances and walk away. By the way, we do have GPS.
Quote from: Diane Amberg on September 12, 2010, 11:53:58 AM
Steve, I don't who told you that you could be sued for doing CPR with a certification. That's hooey! While it is true anyone can sue for anything, volunteers of any kind in most states are protected by their Good Sam laws ESPECIALLY if they HAVE certifications. The whole idea in taking the training is to assure people don't do CPR on someone who doesn't need it, and learn good technique.. CPR and AED are no guarantee of survival and never will be. Next year they'll be rolling out the new standards, including hands only CPR, no breaths. Gotta kill those suing rumors or it will never work. The idea is get MORE people to try to help, not fewer because of threatened lawsuits. A try at a rescue is always better than doing nothing. Most lawyers won't touch lawsuits involving volunteers and most judges would throw it out because it would destroy the volunteer system if people could suddenly sue willy nilly and win. Both Red Cross and The American Heart Association stand behind their classes and card carriers. If our volunteers were ever sued wrongfully we'd lock the ambulances and walk away. By the way, we do have GPS.
I dont' know diane, i remember it happenign long time ago. Might now be now. How do you do cpr with no breathing when you have someone that isn't breathing. That makes no sense.
Uhm How has the gps affected times? I know it has to make a major difference, and it isn't that expensive to implement either.
It helps some. Our rural areas aren't as big as yours and we do have the helicopter to help. Plus we have our own map books that we make ourselves of every detail in our district. We have everything in a modified grid system that has a number assigned to it. Our main slow downs are caused by bad weather and traffic. Occasionally we have hikers or bikers who have accidents deep in some state parks in our district and it can take time to physically find them, and get to them, where there are only narrow trails or none at all. Then we have to hike back to them with all the gear and pack them out.
The idea with the hands only CPR and I can't teach it all on here, is for adults only with a witnessed arrest, which means a fully oxygenated body and brain. It would only be used by a lay rescuer who isn't able (or won't) to give large breaths properly (COPD) and has no equipment, in lieu of doing nothing. The idea being to circulate what oxygen is in the body, to the benefit of the brain. It only lasts for a short time though, so a proper rescue or ambulance must be only a few minutes away. It's not meant for drownings and some other special incidents. There may be some new time limits released for doing CPR for long periods of time, but I can't talk about that yet as the details haven't been released even to us and not all states may go along with it. It also has to do with the availability of an AED.
I need to update my certification and am interested in learning the new procedure. I hope more people will get involved.
So do I. I think the national roll out will be in Nov. but it will take some time to get it out to all the instructors. I think they are planning to do a lot of the updates on line this time, but new books will still need to be printed and made available.There are some other things coming up too, but for the lay rescuer the CCC (continuous chest compression for 200 beats) or "hands only" CPR is the big one. Choking and AED will still need to be addressed and the differences in infants and children also.
Unless things have changed and Elk County's Enhanced 911 is more equipped then I think it is, the 911 addresses that come up in the sheriff's office do not have each resident's GPS readings. We used to have GPS in each vehicle so that when we arrived at the scene we could give the helicopter the latitude and longitude readings, so that they could find the place. All 911 gives is your 911 address.
If emergency personnel is not familiar with the area, then I can see where it would take a little time to get to Sarah's house. Of course, I don't know the reason it took 45 minutes for EMS to arrive, but there are all kinds of factors that could have been involved.
Severy does house an ambulance that has volunteers. Tom Eubank is the only paramedic and the other volunteers are EMTs. I believe that Tom works in Eureka most of the time. I don't know how Severy schedules their volunteers, so I don't know if there is anyone available 24/7 to take that ambulance out.
It is not a law for a paramedic to be on an ambulance unless you are a Type I service which Elk County was not when I was director. Elk County has 2 paramedics working, so I believe that there is a paramedic on 99% of the runs in Elk County.
It is a sad thing when families are in dire need of medical help and the county cannot provide it all the time and as quickly as it needs to be provided. I do not know how many of the current deputies are EMT's. I know Hanks is, but I don't know about anyone else. About the only thing a deputy that is not an EMT can do is drive the ambulance, but I believe that there has to be 2 certified people in the back if you allow that deputy to drive.
I am just trying to answer some questions and give you all some idea about how some of the EMS stuff works in Elk County, but remember, I haven't been involved since January, 2005. I gave up my EMT certification in 2005 after being an EMT for 26 years.