It really should come as no shock that this is happening in California. The teachers who organized this trip and the School Board members that ok'd it should be fired.
With Revolutionaries 'Looking On,' Teachers Take Kids on a Protest Trip to Arizona
By Jana Winter
Published June 10, 2010
| FOXNews.com
May 28: Jose Lara, a social studies teacher in the Los Angeles Unified School District, took students on an overnight "freedom ride" to Phoenix to protest what he called the "racist and outrageous" new immigration law in Arizona. He is seen above holding a sign in Spanish that reads, 'Listen Obama.'
Standing in front of a wall-to-wall mural featuring a who's who of revolutionaries, including Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, and boldly displaying the motto Patria o Muerte, Venceremos!!! (Fatherland or Death, We Shall Overcome!!!), a group of teachers, students, parents and community activists in the Los Angeles Unified School District gathered last month for an unusual field trip — to Arizona, to protest that state's controversial immigration law.
A video posted on YouTube shows LA social studies teacher Jose Lara interviewing teachers and students on May 28 at the headquarters of an organization calling for a Mexican revolution on U.S. soil. Soon after he shot the video, many in the group left for an overnight "freedom ride" to Phoenix to protest what Lara tells the camera is a "racist and outrageous" law.
Four days later, the school board president implored the superintendent of schools to ensure that students in the district be taught that Arizona's law is "un-American" and Jim Crow-like. The law, passed in April, empowers law enforcement officials to question the immigration status of people they think may be in the country illegally.
Lara, who made the video, teaches at the Unified School District's Santee Education Complex with Ron Gochez, another social studies teacher who came under fire last month after he was identified making incendiary remarks in a widely circulated YouTube video that shows him speaking at a 2007 rally for La Raza, a revolutionary group calling for Mexican revolt inside the United States.
In that video, Gochez referred to Americans as "frail, racist, white people, and to California as "stolen, occupied Mexico." The video's posting led to a groundswell of anger and a flood of calls for Gochez's firing, but a school district investigation found him fit to continue teaching history to public school students.
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Los Angeles Students to Be Taught That Arizona Immigration Law Is Un-American Both Lara and Gochez are active in numerous revolutionary groups, including Union Del Barrio, a La Raza organization that Gochez helped establish across the street from Santee High School.
In the video shot before the trip to Arizona, students, teachers and others are seen gathered at the Union Del Barrio meeting hall and cultural center in Los Angeles, called Centro Cultural Francisco Villa — a nod to one of the leaders of the Mexican Revolution — where wall murals picture revolutionary leaders — including Ho Chi Minh — holding machine guns.
Beside portraits of the revolutionaries is a hand-painted rendering of the famous and long-living revolutionary motto: Patrio o Muerte, Venceremos!!! Popularized by Fidel Castro during the Cuban Revolution, it's been used by Latin American leaders including Hugo Chavez of Venezuela and Evo Morales of Bolivia, who declared it the official motto of his nation's army three months ago.
Gochez confirmed to FoxNews.com that he participated in the caravan to Arizona, though he does not appear in Lara's video blog entry. Gochez did, however, give numerous on-camera interviews to local news outlets from Centro Cultural Francisco Villa that same night.
In his video, Lara asks a North Hollywood High School student named Susana why she's heading to Arizona.
"Even though we're — I don't even know how miles away — we're there, we're there for la gente, we're there to help every Latino who's being accused for being immigrants," Susana says. "We have the power to make a lot of change."
Toward the end of the video, Lara introduces another LAUSD teacher, Clare Martinet of Garfield High School.
"I'm getting on the bus because, I think, that the laws are such a threat to all of us," she says. "I'm getting on the bus for all the people that can't get on the bus — for my students and parents of my students ... I'm here with them in solidarity."
School district spokesman Robert Alaniz declined to comment.
The teachers who accompanied students to Phoenix are no strangers to political activism and controversial speech. Gochez has organized against immigration law enforcement raids and held anti-Immigration and Customs Enforcement meetings at his public high school. Lara has worked to secure scholarships and student loans for high school students who are in the U.S. illegally.
Lara and Martinet did not respond to e-mail requests for comment.
FoxNews.com has also uncovered e-mails sent by Martinet to a Progressive Educators discussion group that reveal her involvement in a May 16 march to protest Arizona's immigration law and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, who gave a commencement speech that day at Pomona College.
In an e-mail to the group on March 15, Martinet listed the demands of the next day's "March and Rally to DHS Secretary Napolitano's Speech at the Pomona College."
She wrote:
"Demands:
1. To Stop the Criminalization of Immigrant Families!
2. No More Deportations and Raids!
3. Stop Using Police to Enforce Immigration Laws!
4. Stop Arizona Now!
5. Pass a Just/Humane Immigration Reform Now!"
The day after the march, Martinet wrote an e-mail directing the group to "a nationwide call for people to converge on Phoenix, Arizona, on May 29 for a National Day of Action."
Three days after the teachers and students caravanned to Phoenix to protest the immigration law, the Los Angeles school district board passed a resolution opposing it. The board said the district would look into curtailing district travel to the district and business with any Arizona-based companies. The school board president called on the superintendent to ensure that students throughout the district are taught that the immigration law is "un-American."
Hours after that June 1 school board meeting, Lara posted on his Facebook wall a link to an article titled, "LAUSD board condemns Arizona Immigration law," along with the comment, "I know what I am teaching tomorrow in class!!!!"
Others weren't so sure. A Facebook user named Anne responded, "LAUSD CLEAN UP YOUR OWN HOUSE FIRST!" and another, Lou De Pace, a longtime LAUSD educator who's now retired, wrote, "amazing CA is going to hell in a handbag that is empty and we worry about AZ."
De Pace still sits on a teachers' union committee and is involved in national education and student activist causes. He said the student-teacher field trip was another example of the district focusing on other people's issues while avoiding their own.
"I think it's ridiculous. There's so many more important things — like oversized classrooms, that's one of the biggest problems in the district," De Pace said. "I don't understand what their priorities are.... What message are we sending our kids, help everyone else other than yourself?"
"Clean your house up so you don't live in glass house that people can throw stones at it."
This is getting totally ridiculous. What did the teachers expect to accomplish except to direct unnecessary negative attention on themselves? There is definitely a political agenda there.
Since Hispanic isn't a race, there is no new "racist" law in AZ. The whole Los Angeles area has a high Hispanic population. As one would expect, so does Phoenix. (just like Scotland is full of those pesky Scots. ;D ) I don't understand what they planned to accomplish, but I also have no idea what lies they may have been told to stir things up, as some people love to do. There seems to be some breakdown between the words immigrants and illegal immigrants.
I'm not sure why people "shouldn't be shocked at this happening in CA", nor do I want to hear generalizations about public schools. "They are at it again." At what! Was it not one incident at one school? Is the board going to fire itself? Why? I doubt the trip is in anyway illegal. Protesting has become the American way, especially if one can do it in front of the media. Parents must have given permission and adult chaperons must have been gone along. It's theirs to settle and solve. Why tar all public schools?
Just because Steve's bees died last winter should there be a huge headline?... "The bee population is in terrible trouble in Kansas...Honey production threatened!" Scone bakers up in arms!
But Diane, this is from Fox News---fair and balanced ya' know! ;D
Interestingly enough, I noticed this morning taking my granddaughter to school that traffic was lighter than usual. The junior high down the street seem to have less kids out than normal and the pre-school where my granddaughter goes was missing some students.
AND THEN, it dawned on me. This morning was the World Cup soccer game that Mexico was playing-------------DUH!!!!
Kinda like that movie about there being no mexicans for a day.
Larryj
Quote from: sixdogsmom on June 11, 2010, 03:09:53 PM
But Diane, this is from Fox News---fair and balanced ya' know! ;D
You mean the Faux News Network, SDM? :P :D
If that teacher wanted to go on his/her own to that protest action, then they would be within their legal rights to do so...However, that having been said...Having involved students in this, the teacher in question needs to be fired. I view teachers in the same vein as entertainers...They are to do their job and keep their political views to themselves...Especially when kids come into the equation. Legally, had there been anything happen (such as an accident or an abduction), this teacher wouldn't have had a leg to stand on...Can you spell "LAWSUIT"?...This teacher would have been paying the effected students' family for many generations to come.
Aren't permission slips from parents required for this sort of trip? We always had to sign a slip for our kids.
Larryj
Larry, as far as I know permission slips are still always necessary any time kids go on organized trips away from school property. It helps kids learn responsibility too. No slip, no trip. No slip, the kids spent the day in the office with work to do.
Cat, we are of one mind on this field trip thing, but I don't like having public schools in general tarred. (I'm not sure what "over sized classrooms" have to do with anything either.) I suspect the permission slip covers the liability issue, but I don't know. It would here. But then again, such a trip here would have required special board permission since it wouldn't have appeared on the usual pre authorized trip list. I doubt our school board would have gone along with it. In general I don't like to see kids ,especially young ones out with their parents protesting either, but that's just me.
How about this as a better thread title. "California Public School teacher leads political field trip to Arizona protests." Now doesn't that speak the truth better than "Public Schools at it again?"
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 13, 2010, 09:35:53 AM
How about this as a better thread title. "California Public School teacher leads political field trip to Arizona protests." Now doesn't that speak the truth better than "Public Schools at it again?"
IT WOULD IF the public school that the teacher is employed at did not sanction/allow/authorize/permit the trip. IF they permit the trip, then the title applies.
"Schools" is plural and the "again" suggests that more than one school (many or all ) have done this before and are doing it again. Sorry, don't agree. At least put CA in the title so we we know what state the school is in.
Ironically enough, with the state, the county and city of Los Angeles boycotting Arizona, did all these kids bring sack lunches or -- GOD forbid, they actually spent money in Arizona buying lunch for all these kids. And how about gas? Were they carrying gas containers so they wouldn't have to buy gas in Arizona? AND, it was an overnight trip --- where did they sleep? On a bus? In their cars? OR, heavens to Betsy, they paid for motel rooms.
This is just too much. I feel the school board was wrong to allow it, if they did, meaning it might have been something the teacher did on his own. If it were my kid I would not have signed a permission slip or allowed my children to make such a trip ACROSS A STATE LINE. I feel that this passing of this bill in Arizona is Arizona's problem, not mine. Jumping on the bandwagon showing outrage at Arizona's law is the "flavor of the month" or PC thing to do. I'm sorry, but I am just not that concerned.
Whoever was wrong, the school, the school board, or the teacher, was just that ------ wrong.
Larryj
I know what you mean Larry, but if we couldn't cross a state line our Delaware kids would never get to see all the history in Philly or Baltimore or DC, which are easy field trips for us. ;)
Well, Diane, in your case, driving out of town almost makes crossing a state line inevitable. Here you have to travel 250 miles just to get to the state line. And it is all desert -- and there is not much to see. As is the drive from the state line to Phoenix. There is not much to see short of ghost towns. And, this was not a trip to visit historic places or places of interest, it was a protest trip which was not worthwhile.
Larryj
No argument from me Larry. Isn't Phoenix about 400 miles from LA? I'd love to know what was really going on.
There are no BOE's that I'm aware of that would sanction a trip to do what that teacher did. My instinct, not having direct knowledge of this particular case, is that this "teacher" acted on his own. As such, he should face punitive action individually and all this diatribe directed at the institution of public education should cease. I would love to see someone start throwing vitriolic crap against the homeschooling fringe element as vehemently as the fringe element seems to against the public schoolers.
Quote from: Catwoman on June 13, 2010, 06:20:03 PM
There are no BOE's that I'm aware of that would sanction a trip to do what that teacher did. My instinct, not having direct knowledge of this particular case, is that this "teacher" acted on his own. As such, he should face punitive action individually and all this diatribe directed at the institution of public education should cease. I would love to see someone start throwing vitriolic crap against the homeschooling fringe element as vehemently as the fringe element seems to against the public schoolers.
They have for years. In fact, ohio attempted to make it against the law to send your child to anything but a government school. Didn't last long. Another couple were put in jail in alabama because they homeschooled and refused to send their kids to the Government school. Stayed in jail for 2 years til they were freed by the higher courts.
Private and homeschoolers are under attack from the teachers unions and the Dept of Ed constantly.
the only reason for this is that they want control of the kids in a Government approved institution. Communism at its finest! You do know that Government Schools were implemented by communist/socialists.
Horace mann went to prussia and adopted their school system for our own. Of which its primary function is to instill social obedience in the citizens through indoctrination. Every individual had to become convinced, in the core of his being, that the Government was just, the decisions always right, and the need for obedience paramount.
As the German philosopher Johann Gottlieb Fichte, a key influence on the system, said, "If you want to influence [the student] at all, you must do more than merely talk to him; you must fashion him, and fashion him in such a way that he simply cannot will otherwise than what you wish him to will." [1]
Diane, as for the "public schools at it again" it applies. Did you actually read the article or just skim over it? This is clearly just another example of how the public school system has been pushing their progressive agenda on students. Not to mention how low the bar has been set for teachers! Here you have a social studies teacher protesting a law that he claims is racist, yet says nothing about how the state law merely enforces the federal law. Not only that but the article also points to another teacher that had been seen in 2007 speaking at a rally for La Raza. Yet he still has a job in our public school sewer, I mean system.
It was about a month ago, I think, there was a story about a group of white students that were sent home from school because the t-shirts they were wearing displayed the American flag.
In seattle (?) a school sent a 15yr old girl to an abortion clinic without the consent of her parents, then had the gall to advise her not to tell her parents.
And the list goes on and on. So yes, the title of this thread applies perfectly.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that in New Boston, Mich. a student was told to remove a confederate flag from his truck, yet a teacher in that school is allowed to fly a communist flag in the classroom.
so, tell me again why I should support public schools and the "educators" that work there??
Believe me I read it...I already reacted to it. Did you read what I said? It's, as usual, the generalizations that bother me. Now you are back to other examples.
Tee shirts? Ban 'em all, no more problem! But heaven forbid a school should do it.
Russian flag? (What is a "communist" flag, by the way? ) Did anybody ask the teacher WHY he had a Russian flag? Did he teach Russian? Was it a unit on flags? Was he from Russia himself? (I know my Spanish teacher had a Mexican flag on his desk. So What? and he was a Jewish man from Philly!) Who complained about his flag? Just the kid with the truck? (Wouldn't surprise me) Not everything has a devious second meaning. Did the same teacher tell the kid to remove the flag from his truck? Who asked that it be removed and why? Had someone in the school's neighborhood complained? There needs to be more information.
I already commented on the abortion story. I don't know how you can make such generalized conclusions about the faults of all public education from these few stories with so little information.They just barely scrape the surface.
You obviously don't support any public schools, not even your own local ones, so I won't comment on that. What a shame, that even for the local Kansas kids, who work hard, and do their best, there will always be someone like you to rain on their parade. Sure, there are poor schools in poor districts and stupid, self centered, selfish people who will do something ridiculous to bring bad publicity on schools. Sounds like the rest of life too. Do you ever have anything GOOD to say about the schools and teachers who do go the extra mile, work overtime, give special attention, innovate, make positive suggestions, spend their own money, find new ways to get ideas across, especially for slow learners, and just plain care? There will always be things that can be fixed or improved whether it's school, work or home life. I don't see how revisiting these things over and over and taking such delight in finding faults helps.
Because by yelling and screaming about the few feeble fires that they might be able to point to, out in the vast expanse of public education, attention is diverted elsewhere...It is easier to yell and scream and hop on one foot about perceived evils than it is to actually be a part of the solution and put your efforts toward improving what needs improving. If you're not willing to be a part of the solution, then you remain a part of the problem.
So is this a good time to put in a plug? :D
The USD 282 School Board is meeting tonight - 7:30 pm at the District Office in Howard.
LOL...You're good!
Perfect timing! ;)
Quote from: Diane Amberg on June 14, 2010, 10:10:21 AM
You obviously don't support any public schools, not even your own local ones, so I won't comment on that.(1) What a shame, that even for the local Kansas kids, who work hard, and do their best, there will always be someone like you to rain on their parade.(2) Sure, there are poor schools in poor districts and stupid, self centered, selfish people who will do something ridiculous to bring bad publicity on schools. Sounds like the rest of life too. Do you ever have anything GOOD to say about the schools and teachers who do go the extra mile, work overtime, give special attention, innovate, make positive suggestions, spend their own money, find new ways to get ideas across, especially for slow learners, and just plain care? (3)There will always be things that can be fixed or improved whether it's school, work or home life. I don't see how revisiting these things over and over and taking such delight in finding faults helps. (4)
Quote from: Catwoman on June 14, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
Because by yelling and screaming about the few feeble fires that they might be able to point to, out in the vast expanse of public education, attention is diverted elsewhere...It is easier to yell and scream and hop on one foot about perceived evils than it is to actually be a part of the solution and put your efforts toward improving what needs improving. If you're not willing to be a part of the solution, then you remain a part of the problem.(5)
1. When have I ever said that I don't support the local schools?
2. This isn't about the kids you idiot! It is about the overall direction that the public school system is taking in this country!!
3. Sure, as soon as I see one that doesn't feel the need to inject their politics into their teaching, that doesn't bitch about their pay, that doesn't put the Union interests above those of their students, and will take responsibility for their students not meeting the standard, then I'll have something good to say about those teachers.
4. Because maybe, just maybe, if we keep pointing these things out people will actually start laying the blame for our failing schools at the feet of those responsible, the TEACHERS.
5. So by that logic then the teachers and their unions are the biggest "problem" seeing as how they haven't offered any solutions as of yet.
As for the rest of your post heres an idea. Maybe the school officials, adminstrators, teachers should DO THEIR JOB and solve the problem, instead of blaming a lack of public support. Afterall, thats what THEY WERE HIRED TO DO!!
Re: #5...
What a heaping load of horse manure...Not even well-aged/well-composted crap...
Teachers, administrators and BOEs are all constantly attempting to improve the quality of their schools and the education offered therein...And that was happening LONG before NCLB was instituted. As I have stated before...Just because you sat in a classroom until you were too old to be allowed to remain, it doesn't mean that you have any grasp of what actually goes on in the field of education. When you have finally quit listening to the diatribe put out there by the various malcontents of the world, have quit trying to paint all of Education with the same limited paintbrush that a few trouble spots have created and have FINALLY sat down with qualified instructional personnel and have delved into the intricacies of Educational funding, laws limiting use thereof and have looked at all the years of precedent-setting cases that have shaped the field of Education, THEN AND ONLY THEN will you have a complete, clear, unbiased view of what Education is and should be. Until then...You're just another howling example of how education really can fail.
wow, cat! That's good. :D
And . . . I was the only "public" personl at the school board meeting Monday night - and they did discuss funding and budgets and where money comes from and doesn't come from.
All the other attendees were board members and administration.
Teachers, administrators, and BOE's are what screwed up our education system in the first place. They're the ones that have set the bar so low, that what used to be a "world leading" education system, is now an embarrassment. As far as not going to board meetings and such...that argument only serves to prove my point even further. School officals and administrators that say "we're failing because of a lack of input from the public" just shows how underquaified and poorly trained these people are.
As for your comment.."Just because you sat in a classroom until you were too old to be allowed to remain..." check your facts. I graduated High School with a diploma (not a GED), have 2 separate college degrees and am currently working on number 3. So, that being said you can take that little personal remark and stick it!!
As for "trying to paint all of Education with the same limited paintbrush that a few trouble spots have created..." if the problems that I have brought up with various posts occured in only 2 or 3 different schools, then you'd have a point. However, the number of examples that have been brought up on this clearly shows that it is a growing problem, not a limited one.
So tell me again about those " qualified instructional personnel "...
2-Inch-Tall Army Soldiers Gets School Kid Reprimanded
Publius Forum on 06.17.10 at 9:26 PM | no comments
-By Warner Todd Huston
A policy of no tolerance for weapons got an 8-year-old boy in trouble at his Rhode Island grade school this week. The boy brought in nearly a dozen M-14 Army rifles to his Tiogue School in Coventry, R.I. grade school and was chastised by the principal for the outrage.
How did he get all those assault rifles into the school you might ask? Why he did it by gluing seven or so of his 2-inch-tall green army soldier toys to his camo colored ball cap for "make a crazy hat" day at school. That's right, a few green army man toys were enough to trip the poor child up in this foolish school's "no weapons" policy. (Photo credit, WPRI.com)
Seriously. No weapons includes 2-inch-tall army soldier toys holding teeny, tiny representations of army rifles. 2-inch-tall army soldier toys are enough to get a kid sent in shame to the principal's office and threatened with sterner action.
This is the sort of stupidity that makes adults look like utter morons and Kenneth DiPietro, superintendent of Coventry Public Schools, made himself look like a prime time ass by attacking this kid over a school project to "make a crazy hat."
Now, after looking like a complete fool, here is what DiPietro told reporters:
DiPietro said the school hopes to learn from this incident and spend time deciding whether there should be a different strategy for handling such issues in the future.
Well, now this twerp sounds just like President Obama. All about blue-ribbon commissions, strategies, and new ways of "handling issues," but still doing the stupid stuff, anyway. And all this "learning from the incident" after the stupidity is on full display for everyone to see and after the damage has already been done. This genius is a fine, fine example of the idiocy of leftist "thinking," isn't he?
I wonder when Kenneth DiPietro will come out with a press release blaming Bush for this whole sorry affair?
Anyway, now we have to be sure to understand that 8-year-olds aren't allowed to be proud of America's armed forces, proud enough to want to use their likeness for "make a crazy hat" day in our schools. And this at a time when thousands of our men and women in uniform are daily in harm's way.
Nice.
<yawn...inspecting that miniscule paintbrush yet once again...shaking head...> When comparing the hundreds of thousands of children who are successfully educated in the public sector to the few incidents such as these...I wonder that you actually waste valuable time kicking this dog that clearly won't hunt. Oh well... ::)...We're all entitled to our mindless pursuits.
Ma'am, there are gov't teachers who will agree with Billy and
he has said some very interesting things about the gov't school
system. Certainly, more could be posted about this issue.
Quote from: Catwoman on June 18, 2010, 05:47:01 PM
<yawn...inspecting that miniscule paintbrush yet once again...shaking head...> When comparing the hundreds of thousands of children who are successfully educated in the public sector to the few incidents such as these...I wonder that you actually waste valuable time kicking this dog that clearly won't hunt. Oh well... ::)...We're all entitled to our mindless pursuits.
Well, I guess that depends on your definition of educated now doesn't it? I mean, if you think that kids graduating high school that can't read beyond an 8th grade level were successfully educated, or can't do simple math like counting back change at a register...then yeah, I guess they have met the standard. However, I see these as examples of how pathetic our system has become. And these are just two examples that can be applied across the board to virtually every public school in the U.S.
So, tell me again about that "miniscule paintbrush"! Of course, it might help if you actually took the blinders off.
LOL... ;D...Blinders? Weak. No individual who has spent as long in the any field as long as I have has any kind of blinders on. Try again. There's a huge difference between standing on the outside, stamping your foot and being a howling nuisance, and being on the inside, working daily to make the difference.
Quote from: Varmit on June 19, 2010, 06:51:05 AM
Well, I guess that depends on your definition of educated now doesn't it? I mean, if you think that kids graduating high school that can't read beyond an 8th grade level were successfully educated, or can't do simple math like counting back change at a register...then yeah, I guess they have met the standard. However, I see these as examples of how pathetic our system has become. And these are just two examples that can be applied across the board to virtually every public school in the U.S.
So, tell me again about that "miniscule paintbrush"! Of course, it might help if you actually took the blinders off.
I just got to get in this......I have THREE kids who came thru the public (what you call government) school system....they could read COLLEGE level in the 8th grade.........so far my grandkids...(same evil public school system) are scoring consistently high scores on all their aptitude tests..they ALL read above their grade level.
In my humble opinion any kid who graduates and can't read---unless they have some kind of disability for learning-----it's their OWN fault. The old you can LEAD a kid to books but you can't MAKE em read thing.
In my humble opinion if the PARENTS do not foster an interest in LEARNING in their children you can hardly blame the teachers involved. There ARE bad teachers.......there are ALSO bad parents. If you nurse a kids natural curiuosity they are goin to learn things by ACCIDENT that you can't MAKE em learn if they have never had that.
I've run on plenty of ADULTS who can't count back change anymore cause they've got used to the machine TELLIN em what to give back and gotten lazy.
Exactly, Pam!
Pam, it is good that your kids did well and your grandchildren are also doing well. But, I think that what is being griped about here is the fact that the school systems have relaxed their criteria for learning so that unless you just got here from Saturn, you probably will pass, even though you can't read well or do basic math. Both my kids did very well in school and college, but even they were aware at some point in time, that they were not special. They could see other students not getting good grades and they could see that those students weren't trying. You are correct in that parents need to be involved a great degree in education, but even some parents barely made it through the system when they were in school and aren't much help. California has instituted in recent years, an exit exam, taken by high school seniors. They must pass this test to graduate. I have not seen this test so I don't know what is required to pass it.
Larryj
Quote from: pamagain on June 19, 2010, 09:55:43 AM
In my humble opinion any kid who graduates and can't read---unless they have some kind of disability for learning-----it's their OWN fault. The old you can LEAD a kid to books but you can't MAKE em read thing.
Wanna bet! I have a excellent method to get kids to read books. Simple too. When they don't pass tests or grades, take everything out of their room except for a mattress and sheets and books. Ground them to the room. When they get bored enough, they will read the books. Been there done that got the kids that can read and write and many other things from the books they learned to read from to prove it.
QuoteIn my humble opinion if the PARENTS do not foster an interest in LEARNING in their children you can hardly blame the teachers involved. There ARE bad teachers.......there are ALSO bad parents. If you nurse a kids natural curiuosity they are goin to learn things by ACCIDENT that you can't MAKE em learn if they have never had that.
I've found that capitalism works wonders in incentive to get kids to do things.
QuoteI've run on plenty of ADULTS who can't count back change anymore cause they've got used to the machine TELLIN em what to give back and gotten lazy.
Uhmm i can go to any fast food restaurant in wichita, order a meal and the kids will totally blow a fuse when i tell them what the total is before they can find the buttons with the pictures to push. They totally freak out when you hand them a 20 on a 14.32 order and then give them the .32 cents after they put in 20.00 on the register.
SRK...do you think I grew up in a vacuum?????
Yeah we get it you are THE BEST parent who ever came down the pike. You know more than ANYbody about EVERYthing. You have BEEN everywhere...DONE everything...and done it BETTER than any of us puny humans.......GOD!!!!!!!!
Now that I've got that out of my system.........
I know that Larry and maybe some schools have I don't know......all I know is the schools I have been involved with......that would be West Elk for my boys and McDonald county for my daughter.
I havent had anything to do with West Elk for about 10 years so THEY may have changed since my boys graduated. As far as my daughter...the last few years they RAISED the bar here and students have to test every year to make sure they go on. Which is as it SHOULD be I think.
Quote from: pamagain on June 19, 2010, 10:24:20 AM
SRK...do you think I grew up in a vacuum?????
Yeah we get it you are THE BEST parent who ever came down the pike. You know more than ANYbody about EVERYthing. You have BEEN everywhere...DONE everything...and done it BETTER than any of us puny humans.......GOD!!!!!!!!
Yeah apparantly i have. :)
Quote from: larryJ on June 19, 2010, 10:10:51 AM
Pam, it is good that your kids did well and your grandchildren are also doing well. But, I think that what is being griped about here is the fact that the school systems have relaxed their criteria for learning so that unless you just got here from Saturn, you probably will pass, even though you can't read well or do basic math. Both my kids did very well in school and college, but even they were aware at some point in time, that they were not special. They could see other students not getting good grades and they could see that those students weren't trying. You are correct in that parents need to be involved a great degree in education, but even some parents barely made it through the system when they were in school and aren't much help. California has instituted in recent years, an exit exam, taken by high school seniors. They must pass this test to graduate. I have not seen this test so I don't know what is required to pass it.
Larryj
I agree with your observations regarding the changes in criteria...Unfortunately, it is directly linked to the demands from society that every child be made to feel "special"...God forbid we should do anything to harm a child's "psyche". You see, it would be great if education existed in a vacuum (what a great term!), where only pure thought and pure pursuit of learning could occur. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. We have some adults running around who had a difficult time in school themselves (for whatever reason) and, as a result, have a chip on their shoulders regarding anything anything that the educator in question might do that involves stringent structure.
I wanted to clarify my earlier post. I didn't mean my kids weren't special. They were and still are. The point was they could see that their hard work and studying made them very smart and got them the accolades they deserved. They could see their fellow students who were struggling because they didn't put out the effort to learn. Some of the problem is that there are a lot of Hispanics in this area. Many had to learn English before they could even start school. Many can care less about American history as it did not directly affect their culture. In fact, the city bordering us to the northwest is a highly industrial area, home of Miller brewery, their biggest employer and many more big industries. It is probably 95% Hispanic. Their tax base is such that all the industry pays more than enough taxes to keep the city running and provide services for the few full time residents. Those that live there pay little or no taxes other than income and state taxes. They have two or three beautiful parks. They have a spectacular fireworks show every fourth of July. City officials get new cars each year as well as the police department. The streets are beautifully maintained.
THEY HAVE NO SCHOOLS!
All of the children are sent to schools in our school district. All of the kids that play little league play in our city's little league. Their crime rate is low because those who would commit a crime don't want to upset the apple cart of the town they live in so they go outside to commit crimes. Sorry for the rant.
Larryj
That was no rant...I am not surprised that they have no schools...As most of their population is Hispanic, the government probably is looking at it as de-segregation tactics to have them go to your area for education. Otherwise, they'd be going to schools where almost the entire population is Hispanic. Now, on an Indian reservation (ooooooooops...Not very PC of me...Exclusive living arrangements for Native Americans... ::)) that'd be called normal and you'd have to be a Native American to go teach there (or at least, when I applied years ago, that was what I was told was the reason for my not getting the job...They preferred to hire Native Americans first in order to provide appropriate role models for the youth of the reservation). At least your district gets the tax dollars per head on those kiddos...Better hope they keep procreating...Not only job security for your teachers but economic security for funding your schools. ;D ;D
Back in the dark ages, my mother, who was a school teacher, took a job in Arizona near an Indian reservation. I always thought it was on the reservation until later on. When I looked at it closely again, I could see it was just outside the rez. All of her students were Native American then. I was in college then and only went two or three times to visit. The school district provided her with a small house trailer to live in next to the school. She liked it, but became unable to continue due to health reasons. I don't know if there was any problem for her to get the job.
Larryj
For many years, Caucasian was fine as a teacher...Until the age of PC'ness and making sure the kids had educators that "allowed them to see themselves" (a direct quote from the person I interviewed with). It was interesting...That position went unfilled for quite awhile (the one I interviewed for)...Being willing wasn't a quality they were looking for, evidently, in my day. I have no idea what the specs are for a person to get hired onto a reservation these days.
Government school taking it to the extreme again to destroy what parents try to teach our kids is right....
School Teaches Kids Religion Is a 'Disease'
God is dead? At a top Brooklyn middle school, He is.
Just when you thought the separation of church and state was more than an option, like paper or plastic, the matter has been settled at MS 51 in Park Slope. And the lesson falls on the side of atheism.
"RELIGION," a sheet from English class, handed out to eighth-graders, is provocatively titled. The typewritten paper presents some 20 quotes that can be described as anti-God, coming from philosophers from Kierkegaard to Schopenhauer. Even a "Yiddish proverb."
"Religion is a disease, but a noble disease," reads the first quote, attributed to Heraclitus.
"Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they will think," reads one by Schopenhauer.
Another sheet, titled "GOD," asks kids to ponder whether religion should be treated as poetry -- neither true nor false.
Angry parents want to know: What the devil does this have to do with middle-school English?
And, aren't these kids too young to learn something more appropriate for a grad-school theological course?
"It's not only above their level, obviously. It's inappropriate in a public-school setting," said Ken Whelan, whose daughter brought home the assignment late last year.
"We are fighting for the hearts and minds of our children. Against MTV, 'American Idol' and anorexia. We don't need the public-school system to muddy the waters. To plant seeds of doubt."
MS 51 is considered an educational oasis, one of the top 10 middle schools to send kids to the city's specialized high schools. But the fuzzy-headed assignment, given by English teacher Rachel Rear, raised red flags with a Department of Education official, who agreed middle school "is a little young for this."
<yawn> ::)
I took a minute to try to catch up on some forum posts.. and there is truth to what everyone is saying...both sides have some good points to make.. The government is getting their nasty claws in so deep in the schools that individual teaching that some "good" teachers want to do is stifled and snuffed out..
I understand Cat..that you are a teacher and so you try to see everything with different eyes... ( and yes.. I do think you have a teeny bit of blinders on because of that fact) but there are a whoooole lot of teachers who are scared of what is happening and they see things that reek of socialist control within our schools.
I have one of my best friends who has been teaching in the Wichita schools well over 15 years and she told me just a few nights ago that it is an absolute nightmare with the system now...She said that her hands are tied as to the way she teaches.. the curriculum has been so twisted and socialized and liberalized that it makes her sick.. and she said more and more of the teachers are starting to actually fear what the government is making them do.
They actually passed out a sheet for all the teachers to sign (in essence) wanting them to embrace this " diversity" and actually was telling the teachers to overlook several areas of question pertaining to the minority's what with their political agendas... religion...and cultures... (((I happen to think that we are the minority's) :P.. Understand that until all these kids cultures came into play and they refuse to abide my American cultures.. that there wasn't a problem...
She looked at it.. and in the full meeting of all teachers etc.. she said.. "I am not going to sign this!".. I don't think..as an American that I should have to put my beliefs and my cultures on the back burner ..almost apologizing for them... while the Mexican and Muslim culture is pampered to and held in what seems to me.. high honor.. " She also said it looked and smelled a whole lot like socialist control.
I guess when she said that it got real quiet and all of a sudden quite a few others nodded their heads also.. Later.. some teachers actually said that they agreed with her but signed the sheet for fear of losing their jobs..
Isn't that just dandy? >:( When are people going to stop being sheep?
She talked to me for over 2 hours and filled me in on so much BS that is going on in the schools..
I could go on and on and on.. but this whole system ..government...schools.. whatever .......makes me physically sick ..
So up to now...my respect for the "school system " on a scale of 1-10..has been about a 2..
Now its about a negative-5.....
sorry...................... :-\