Arizona May Abolish Concealed-Carry Permits

[Diane Amberg]

 I meant what kind of a 22? Winchester, Smith & Wesson, Crickett? Sorry, I didn't know I wasn't clear. I assumed it wasn't a hand gun.

[srkruzich]

long rifle for him, but i have a .22 handgun i'll let him use when he's here.  He has to learn how to shoot matchsticks with the longrifle before he can shoot the handgun.

[Teresa]

Friday.. the Republican Governor Jan Brewer has signed into law Arizona's Constitutional Carry Law. Anyone in this state can now carry concealed, as well as open without a permit! They now join Vermont and Alaska as the only 3 states who allow people to exercise unrestricted freedoms when carrying a weapon. Janet Napolitano vetoed most every gun bill that came across her desk as she led the state down the economic road to ruin with all of her Hussein style, progressive politics.

"Second Amendment Jan" is well on her way to rectifying that situation.
She has already signed into law a bill that allows concealed carry in bars. The whining, liberal, anti gun crowd wasted no time starting in with their whole, "there will be blood in the streets", and, "we are returning to the Wild West", nonsense. It's driving them nuts. Jan and the gun crowd love it!

If I lived in Arizona she would have my vote based on this alone. Show me a woman that likes guns and the people who own them... and I'll show you someone who should hold public office!

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/1528

[Teresa]

And here's some more information about the recent changes to AZ law.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/04/16/20100416arizona-concealed-weapons-bill16-ON.html


The Arizona Republic .
Starting later this summer, U.S. citizens 21 and older can begin carrying a concealed firearm without a permit in Arizona.

Arizona immigration bill faces Senate vote Monday

Gov. Jan Brewer signed Senate Bill 1108 into law Friday afternoon. It eliminates the requirement for a concealed-carry weapons permit, but does require gun owners to accurately answer if an officer asks them if they are carrying weapon concealed. It also allows officers to temporarily confiscate a weapon while they are talking to an individual, including during a traffic stop.

"I believe strongly in the individual rights and responsibilities of a free society, and as governor I have pledged a solemn and important oath to protect and defend the Constitution," Brewer said in a news release. "I believe this legislation not only protects the Second Amendment rights of Arizona citizens, but restores those rights as well."

The law goes into effect 90 days after the Legislature adjourns for this session, which could happen in the next couple of weeks.

Arizona joins Vermont and Alaska in not requiring such permits.

"If you want to carry concealed, and you have no criminal history, you are a good guy, you can do it," bill sponsor Sen. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, has said of his bill. "It's a freedom that poses no threat to the public."

National Rifle Association lobbyist Matt Dogali said the new state law would not violate any current federal requirements.

"There is no federal requirement for a permit or lack thereof," Dogali said.

The federal government oversees the background-check program required to purchase a weapon, which will still be required in Arizona in most cases.

Brewer last week did sign a separate law that exempts guns made and kept in Arizona from federal regulation, including background checks.

Arizona had 154,279 active permits as of April 4. Permit holders are spread across all ages, races and counties, but White males older than 30 in Maricopa and Pima counties hold the majority, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety data.

The permits generated $1.8 million in revenue last fiscal year, according to DPS. The money is used to help cover costs for enforcing laws related to the Highway Patrol, operating the concealed-carry weapon-licensing program and impounding vehicles.

Arizona's permit process will remain in place, and many gun owners may still choose to get a permit. Permits would still be needed in order to carry a weapon into a restaurant or bar that serves alcohol. They would also be needed if an Arizonan wants to carry his or her gun concealed in most other states.

For those who do choose to get a permit, the education requirements do change under the new law. Classes are no longer required to be a set number of hours or include any hands-on use of the weapon. Those who don't get a permit would not be required to get any training or education.

Retired Mesa police officer Dan Furbee runs a business teaching permit and other gun safety classes. He said if most people choose not to get a permit, it will put several hundred Arizona firearms instructors out of business.

"It's going to hurt," he said.

But he said what really concerns him is that the new law will allow people who have had no education about Arizona's laws and no training on the shooting range to carry a concealed gun. The eight-hour class currently required to get a permit includes information on state law and gun safety, as well as requires students to be able to hit a target 14 out of 20 times. Furbee said his class at Mesa-based Ultimate Accessories costs $79, plus $60 for the five-year permit.

"I fully agree that we have a right to keep and bear arms," Furbee said. "But if you are not responsible enough to take a class and learn the laws, you are worse than part of the problem."

He said it's not uncommon for students to walk into his classroom and pull a new gun out of a box with no idea how to hold it and no understanding of the laws surrounding it.

"If you are going to carry a concealed weapon, you should have some kind of training and show that you are at least competent to know how the gun works and be able to hit a target," he said. "You owe the people around you a measure of responsibility."

This new law is the latest of several that have passed over the past year since Brewer took over the office from former Gov. Janet Napolitano, a Democrat.

Napolitano vetoed at least a dozen weapons bills that crossed her desk during her seven years in office, all of which would have loosened gun restrictions. In 2005, Napolitano rejected a bill that would have allowed patrons to carry loaded guns into bars and restaurants. In 2008, she also vetoed a bill that would have allowed people to have a hidden gun in vehicles without a concealed-carry permit.

In January 2009, Napolitano resigned to become U.S. Homeland Security secretary and Republican Secretary of State Brewer became governor.

During her first year in office, Brewer signed a bill allowing loaded guns in bars and restaurants, as well as another that prohibits property owners from banning guns from parking areas, so long as the weapons are kept locked in vehicles.

((Parts I highlighted in maroon color....... I agree....
I have seen some pretty stupid people pulling guns out and swinging them around and not even knowing what way the bullets are loaded from... I think that you should have to take a class then be able to take that certificate of passing.. and then buy whatever gun you want..and carry it where ever you want..whenever you want..on your hip or concealed..))

[Teresa]

COMMON MYTHS ABOUT CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY



Q: Why is the CCW permit being eliminated?

A: The CCW permit is not being eliminated -- that appears to have been misinformation designed to scuttle the bill. The permit system remains completely unaffected by Freedom To Carry. The permit, its advantages, the training, reciprocity schemes, the classes, fees and taxes are unchanged. That all remains voluntary as it always has been. Anyone who meets that law's requirements can apply. Shame on the "news" media that has repeatedly said otherwise.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: What's the difference between Constitutional Carry and Freedom To Carry?

A: There's no difference, they're just two names for the same thing. Constitutional Carry, the more formal term, comes from following the Arizona Constitution's provision that "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired...". Freedom To Carry (no government interference with the right to arms) refers to the next step after so-called Right To Carry (massive government interference with the right to arms).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: If people can just carry guns, won't crime and gun problems skyrocket?

A: Half of Arizonans keep and bear arms now, without any of the CCW red tape and government supervision, and without any "skyrocketing" problems. Removing the requirement to only carry openly doesn't change who people are or how they act, it just restores their rights. Restoration of rights and becoming mentally unhinged are not related -- but the same arguments have been made everywhere CCW programs passed.

It's commonly recognized that some folks, especially people who lean left politically, do seem to equate discreetly bearing arms and becoming unglued. Decades of experience however provide no evidence of any such behavior. Those concerns have been repeatedly proven false and often turn out to be irrational fear mongering. Government permission slips for the exercise of rights have not turned people into homicidal maniacs. Restoring the right to discreetly bear arms will not change people into something they are not, and brings the state into proper compliance with its Constitution.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: Can anyone carry a gun?

A: Anyone who could legally carry a gun previously can legally carry under this law, no more, no less. "Prohibited possessors" -- criminals, illegal aliens and others forbidden to carry arms remain banned as always. The main change is that now a woman can put a handgun in her handbag without being subject to arrest for carrying discreetly without a government permission slip (and a man has equal right to carry a gun in any discreet manner -- under a sport coat or shirt, in a pocket or pants holster, fanny pack, attaché case, etc.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: Training is a good thing, why was it eliminated?

A: Training is indeed a good thing and it is not eliminated. Anyone can and should take as much training as they want, which is voluntary. What has changed is that you are no longer forced to take government-mandated classes, registration and taxes before you can exercise your right to carry discreetly. This is the same formula working in Arizona since statehood for open carry (which includes concealed carry in your home, business, land, vehicle (with some minor conditions), and in a visible scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons, or in luggage. Now that the half of the public that bears arms can do so discreetly, many experts expect statewide gun training to flourish.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: Won't people shoot each other if they're not required to take the training?

A: Twelve states currently issue CCW permits without a training requirement and they're doing just fine. Half of Arizonans exercise their right to arms without government-demanded training and they're doing just fine. The idea that you're only safe if government requires training is statist, foolish and incorrect. That said, responsible people should get education and training for firearms—and swimming, machine tools, medical care, raising children, being married, owning a home, preparing food, writing articles, etc., without government mandates.

If government could require training for everything that has risk, your freedom would be evaporated and your government would be out of line. Government has no legitimate delegated authority in this country to be your nanny like that, or to require anything beyond the specific, limited delegated powers given to it in the Constitution and subsequent valid legislation. The fact that government has in many cases abandoned those constraints is part of why the Tea Party movement has gained such ground and, in some cases, driven the public out into the streets with pitchforks (figuratively).

Currently, 11 states issue carry permits without training and they're fine (AL, DE, GA, ID, IN, MD, MS, NH, PA, SD, WA). Because Arizona recognizes all other permits, many of our snowbirds have been carrying under those permits, without problems.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: Why are children of any age going to be allowed to carry guns to school?

A: That is total nonsense. No such thing occurs. The bill has no effect on children. That appears to be part of a misinformation campaign designed to scuttle the bill. There is no change as to who has the right to keep and bear arms. School grounds are unaffected by the law. That question is typical of similar lies and disinformation used to defeat and mislead the public about many good bills that seek to restore our civil rights. It's almost as bad as the lies told about blacks during the civil rights era of the 1960s. Almost.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Q: Will other states imitate Arizona and enact Constitutional Carry?

A: Many people hope so, and it has the backing of the gun-rights groups.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




AFTERWORD: INSIDER INFORMATION:

There is one reason and one reason only why this got done --
The Arizona Citizens Defense League.

That small handful of guys running this group, the two full-time volunteer lobbyists Dave Kopp and John Wentling, and the thousands of members who supported the effort with their tiny membership dues are exactly and precisely why our rights have expanded.

It was a deliberate, conscientious, focused and tireless effort from what must be a candidate for the best pro-rights organization in the nation. Get your friends to join, send a donation or buy a t-shirt or hat, attend the meetings, and in your little way, make a difference and preserve our rights. http://www.azcdl.org

One other tidbit -- the NRA was rightfully nervous about this whole Freedom To Carry, permit-less, no training, no red tape expansion of our rights. They dragged their feet at first, that's putting it mildly, and I can't say I blame them. An awful lot was on the line.

They wanted to be prudent. Limit exposure and risk. They have all their trainers to think about and that revenue stream. The chance of falling flat on your face in total embarrassment is a serious concern. The ease with which the antis might cast us as dangerous gun-toting (their media's favorite slur) nuts is a real issue.

I personally debated hard with some of the top brass, and to their credit, they finally agreed not to fight the effort in Arizona, and eventually saw the light and got on board. Some gun owners like to pick on the NRA, but the NRA is going to be at the forefront of this battle. The Constitutional Carry issue does make sense, for them and for us. It will be a winner in some states, maybe yours, and does advance everything for which NRA members stand.

Yes, some of those members, steeped in darkness, or hooked on the government-permit feed trough, believe that red-tapeless carry is a bad idea. They crave government supervision. They want that permission slip in their wallet. They'll learn, and come around. And continue to get fine training from NRA certified and other trainers because it's the right thing to do, not because the government commands it.

[mtcookson]

((Parts I highlighted in maroon color....... I agree....
I have seen some pretty stupid people pulling guns out and swinging them around and not even knowing what way the bullets are loaded from... I think that you should have to take a class then be able to take that certificate of passing.. and then buy whatever gun you want..and carry it where ever you want..whenever you want..on your hip or concealed..))

I would agree if and ONLY if it was the gun dealer requiring it, but I doubt any would as that would be a loss of business in most cases. The government, constitutionally, can not interfere with us possessing and carrying arms. Requiring a class to purchase a firearm would be a violation of that.

Now... I think a good, and constitutional, way to get people trained that are going to buy are incentives. Gun dealers offering discounts on classes for buying a gun or discounts on a gun for bringing in a certificate from a class, etc. Simply offer something to make people want to take the class. That would be a good way to get people trained without infringing on their rights. For instance, I know of a class in Wichita (actually I think its in El Dorado, can't remember off hand) that teaches you how to use weapons correctly and you get to train on fun weapons... like so:



That particular class has had people come by and take it even though they already had their conceal carry permits

[Teresa]

You are right  on the infringement part.. and this would be an excellent way to get them to take a class...

[Roma Jean Turner]

Teresa, I think you and I should open a gun Boutique for women, so they would want to come in and shop.  Wouldn't that be fun.  I suggested it to my favorite pawn shop here, of course I was talking to men.   Pretty setting with the guns displayed well and of course all the accessories.  Classes with brunch.  Hey, I'm not kidding.

[Diane Amberg]

I'll take a bright pink 38 special please, or maybe pink and green polka dots. I"d get the bad guy laughing so hard maybe I wouldn't have to shoot him after all.   I am serious.

[Roma Jean Turner]

I'm for whatever works.