The Cenus is Getting Personal

[redcliffsw]

Some of you seem to think you'll get more or less money and benefits from the
Federals as a result of the census.  That's what is wrong with this country - some
people are more interested in gov't payments & support than keeping this country right.   

[Wilma]

Name one program that would survive with just what Elk County citizens could put into it, including the roads.  Do you really think that Elk Countians pay enough in taxes to keep up the good work.  Most of the road crew would have to be laid off.  The big, more efficient machinery wouldn't be affordable.  Maybe we could get Pete Harvey and his horses back to drag the roads.  Yes, the roads are in bad shape right now.  Even in dry weather they aren't much better, but it isn't all the fault of the road crews.  If they had the level surfaces, sandy soil and no rocks like Sedgwick County has, they could keep the roads in much better shape.  Ask yourself if you would go out and work your fields right now.  Would you plow your garden in preparation for planting right now?  Just what do you think the heavy equipment can do with the mud?  I think this should have been saved for the other thread, but here it is anyway.

Why don't you just admit that there is a need for federal and state funding and the only way to do that is through taxes.  One central authority is more efficient than 50 smaller departments that depend only on local funding.

[M.MM]

Maybe the road crew workers should consider going to work for the census at this time. Starting pay is $12 something an hour plus .50 a mile, and it was announced just this week the state of Kansas is still looking to hire 4,000 more people to work on it. Wonder if the county pays anywhere near that to start you as a worker?

[Varmit]

Name one program that would survive with just what Elk County citizens could put into it, including the roads.

Probably not too many and they would have to reevaluate how they do things.  And I guarantee the citizens of this county would be a lot more apt to question the actions of our commissioners, which is how it should be.  

Do you really think that Elk Countians pay enough in taxes to keep up the good work.  Most of the road crew would have to be laid off.  The big, more efficient machinery wouldn't be affordable.  Maybe we could get Pete Harvey and his horses back to drag the roads.  Yes, the roads are in bad shape right now.  Even in dry weather they aren't much better, but it isn't all the fault of the road crews.  If they had the level surfaces, sandy soil and no rocks like Sedgwick County has, they could keep the roads in much better shape.  Ask yourself if you would go out and work your fields right now.  Would you plow your garden in preparation for planting right now?  Just what do you think the heavy equipment can do with the mud?  I think this should have been saved for the other thread, but here it is anyway.

Given teh state of our roads right now I would have to say that the big, more efficient machinery hasn't really paid off.  Ask Yourself if our roads had sufficent drainage and proper ditches and crowns, would the water stay on the roads causing the problems we have now?

Why don't you just admit that there is a need for federal and state funding and the only way to do that is through taxes.  One central authority is more efficient than 50 smaller departments that depend only on local funding.

Well, for starters, I am an AMERICAN and thats not the way it is supposed to work in this country.  I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and thats what I will do.  I believe in they ability of individual communities and states to handle their problems without a handout from the federal gov't.  If we are to follow your logic then whats the point of having seperate states?  Why don't we just turn over our state sovernity and bow down to One Central Authority?  That may be fine with you, but I for one, have not forgotten the price that was paid for our Freedoms.

And one more thing, you still haven't answered my question, name one program that the gov't is in charge of that stays on budget and actually works?

[larryJ]

I am not entirely sure how to respond to you, Billy.  I don't remember saying anything about whether the federal programs that dole out money to people are on-budget or not.  I wasn't saying anything about that.  The point is, that the demographics obtained from the census determines how much federal money goes to Elk County.  I could have copied and pasted tons of information about federal expenditures in Elk County, but it was too long and too boring.  Do your own research----just type in federal spending in Elk County KS and see all the sites that will tell you where "your" money goes.  Some of the numbers are very interesting.  You can also check the Prairie Star and look at stories that detail federal spending in Elk County.  One I saw was from November 2009 concerning security cameras for the schools provided by federal funds.  Now, whether that happened or not, the funding was made for it.  The last thing I saw was government insurance for crop failure and floods amounting to almost $3 million dollars in 2008.  Interestingly enough, more people in Elk County died as a result of traffic accidents in 1981 --- wonder why that was.  And, 26 percent of you can claim German ancestry!  My ancestors were Scottish/English.  Many of you are living in houses built before 1939.  Lots of information about the county can be found, but the main idea or theme here is federal spending in the county.  Check it out.

Larryj

[Wilma]

My point is that we are no longer living in the 18th century when our Constitution was written.  No matter how hard they tried, our forefathers could not ascertain what our needs in the 21st century would be.  They had no way of knowing that the horse and buggy would be obsolete and that 21st century transportation would demand more in the way of trans-continental paths.  They did know that the Constitution could not stand as it was, so they provided for Amendments.  In light of the progress that has been made and how slow it is to get anything done at the central point, we can't wait for a Constitutional Amendment to provide the ways and means of doing what is necessary.  If we needed a Constitutional Amendment for every little thing that needs to be done, we would still be in the 18th century.  If you all want to go back to horse and buggy days, try it.  I prefer living in the 21st century.

[Varmit]

Larry, thats kinda what I am getting at.  Do we really need money for security cameras at our schools?  Crop failure and flood damage?  While I sympathize with farmers that lose crops and what not, I don't think it is right to provide them with taxpayer dollars for those losses.  Farming is alot like gambling, yous pays your money you takes your chances.  It is not the gov't job to take care of everyone.  I heard a story the other day.  During the presidency of Hoover Texas farmers had a problem with drought, as a result there weren't enough seeds to plant for the next round of crops.  The gov't said that they were going to allocate $10,000 to aid the farmers.  Hoover said NO.  He believed in the self reliance of the individual communites to take care of their own, as a result, the people of Texas ended up raising 10 times the gov't amount.  


Wilma, to say that our forfathers weren't able to look to the future is ridiculous!  Of course they could see that things would change.  Thats why the Constitution was written the way it was.  They also saw that a central gov't that wasnt' kept in check had the potential to become tryannical and oppressive, thats why they included the limitations they did. 
As for the "Central Point" providing the ways and means of doing things, thats the point of the 10th admendment.  It is not the responsibility of the Federal gov't to handle the issues of individual states.
If you want to go back to living under the rule of a King, give it a try.  I prefer living in a free country.

[Wilma]

Isn't that what I said?  That the writers of our Constitution couldn't see what the future would hold so they gave us Amendments.  You think you are free?  Who pays the taxes that pay your wages, such as they are?  You are only free as long as you are not trespassing on someone else's freedom.  You can't drive on the left side of the road, even if you want to.  You can't take the eggs out of your neighbor's hen house or sell your neighbor's cattle.  We are not free because we have to live by the laws that make everything easier for eveybody.  I said "everybody", not just some of us.  There has to be a certain amount of order in the world even if it goes against someone's personal feelings or beliefs.  There has to be a center to this order.  Our forefathers provided for a central government made up of a representation from each state.  Why the central government if we don't need it?  Why bother with it if each state goes it's own way?   

I am through.  It is apparent that the people that are responding are not understanding what they are reading.

[srkruzich]

  They did know that the Constitution could not stand as it was, so they provided for Amendments.  In light of the progress that has been made and how slow it is to get anything done at the central point, we can't wait for a Constitutional Amendment to provide the ways and means of doing what is necessary. 

Excuse me, but that was the intent and purpose of our forefathers to stop Government from just enacting whatever it feels is necessary.  We cannot allow them to subvert the process.  The process has worked very well for over 200 years. I and the majority of people in this country do not even consider changing the amendment process.  Uh uh.  The good thing about the constitution and the amendment process is that the amendment process cannot be changed period unless you dissolve the nation.  The first 10 amendments plust he constitution plus the declaration were written before 1800 and anything written prior to 1800 cannot be amended, changed, altered, molested, in any form shape or fasion.

If we needed a Constitutional Amendment for every little thing that needs to be done, we would still be in the 18th century.  If you all want to go back to horse and buggy days, try it.  I prefer living in the 21st century.

I'll tell ya what, I would prefer 18th century to a socialistic/fascist government. 
Beside roadways are NOT the federal goverments responsibility.  That is the states responsibility..  Centralized government cannot work.  It will collapse upon itself.  The full intent and purpose of Federal govenrment is basically a coop of states.  THe states are responsible for their day to day operations.  The feds only handle the coop of things that the states cannot do individually such as defense, import export overseas, immigration, ect.......

[larryJ]

It was pointed out to me that I made an error.  I should have said look up "federal funds" not "federal spending".  Thanks for pointing that out for me.  The site I drew my information from is:

www.city-data.com/county/Elk_County-KS.html

Billy, you said "Do we really need money for security cameras at the schools?  Crop damage and flood damage?"

The question should be------Do the schools really need cameras and if so, who is going to pay for them?  Benjamin Franklin mentioned nothing is more certain than death and taxes.  So, if you have to pay taxes, they should go where they are needed.  

Crop damage insurance?  The Feds, in determining how much they are going to pay out in crop insurance failure look to the census and say (and these numbers are just an example), "Last time we (feds) checked, there were 100 farmers in Elk County, KS.  So, let's set aside in our budget $10 million dollars for crop damage and flood insurance."  Along comes the next census, and ten of those 100 farmers fail to fill out the census.  The Feds see the new numbers and say, Wait!  There are only 90 farmers now so let's deduct 10 percent off the original amount.  Along comes disaster, be it drought, tornadoes, bugs, etc. and there will be less money for those farmers because 10 of them didn't bother with the census.

The point is, you are going to pay the taxes, whether you feel it is right or not, or, if you feel it is too much, you are still going to pay them.  So, the census needs to be accurate in order for you to get your fair share back.

This, and every other government, since this country was formed was and is not a for-profit organization.  It has had a national debt since the words national debt were invented.  

Income tax began in 1861 to help pay for the Civil War.  Think about this for a minute.  In 1861, while there were big cities that could easily be counted and taxed, there were a lot of people living in the country that didn't pay that tax, or maybe didn't even know there was a tax.  Same thing now.  If the government counts us as say. 280 million people and taxes us accordingly, think about the 10 percent of those who didn't report to the census, but will still get government assistance if they are hurt, starving, homeless, or otherwise destitute whether they paid taxes or not.

I am just saying that I feel the census is important, not only for what the government does for your area, but also for the proper representation in Congress.

Too early to rant!!

Larryj