What the Hell is Wrong with Sonoma County, California?

[srkruzich]

Steve, I speak arabic, i know where the word comes from and what it means.  That doesnt change the fact that muslims believe they are worshipping the same god as the christians and jews. 

No their not.  They do not worship the same god.  They worship the moon god.  The moon god is not El or Elohim.  The moon god or allah is more closely associated with bel and ba'al which are false gods existing around the time .  That is what i orignially said and still say.  THey are NOT the same god as the jewish God or Christian God.  
IN fact, Jews believe in the trinity.  They believe in Genesis don't they?  Genesis 1:1 and over 30 times in that one chapter The hebrew word for God is elohiym which means:
a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels
d) gods
Also Psalm 110:1 specifically (its also OT and jewish) states that
Psa 110:1  The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Well that seals it doesn't it?  God was talking to Jesus Christ.  

AND Then you have Daniel 7:13 where
Dan 7:13    ¶     I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

THIS CLEARLY states that Christ appeared and came to God (ancient of days)

Then you have Adonai  which means Lord or literal translation, my masters.

I didnt say they WERE, i said that this is what they believe. 

Most muslims will tell you that they worship the moon god.  Secondly, islam didn't come around until 632 AD or somewhere about that date.  Mohammed also borrowed a lot of text from the torah, talmud, the vedic verse, and several other religions.  Many of the fables in the koran were from hinduism.

They do not believe in the trinity, but then neither do a lot of christians.  In fact, many of the founders of this country didnt believe in a holy trinity.  The jews don't believe in a trinity either.  Jesus was jewish, right? hmmmm (Teresa, you need to add a smiley of a guy rubbing his chin)

The jewish and muslim concepts of god are pretty much exaclty the same.  Its the evangelical/catholic concept of trinity that is out of whack with monotheism.  This is mostly due to the fact that judaism and islam have not been changed from their original form, unlike christianity, which has been mauled by men in order to suit their needs.

I don't think so.  The muslim copied a lot of the hebrew text and rewrote it to fit their agenda.  

The people whom you are trying to link, worshippers of ba'al and the like, did not speak arabic.

Does't matter.  the so called allah came from cananite history.  IT was a borrowed god.

[srkruzich]

its not in the Torah, the books were changed. 

Also, christianity did not begin at the dawn of time, sorry.

Actually yes it did there anmar.   Jesus is the second Adam.  God set the path of christianity from the day Adam was created. 
When he was cast out, man was given the promise of salvation through Christ.  AFter christ came man was given the assurance of salvation by christ.

YOu can't separate christ from any part of the bible.

[srkruzich]

Also anmar how do you explain
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

And how do you explain
Dan 3:25          He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

And how do  you explain that the Holy spirit came down upon the Kings of Israel? 
theres the trinity

[Sarah]

Actually yes it did there anmar.   Jesus is the second Adam.  God set the path of christianity from the day Adam was created. 
When he was cast out, man was given the promise of salvation through Christ.  AFter christ came man was given the assurance of salvation by christ.

YOu can't separate christ from any part of the bible.

Oh well, you said what I was going to say.  Christianity IS from Genesis 1:1.  The OT is the foreshadowing of the sacrifice that God would send to reconcile sinful man back to Himself and the NT is the fulfillment of that.  Back in the OT they were living under the Law and we are now under grace.  Christianity at it's final place. 

[Anmar]

Steve, your nuts

If i want to know what a jewish person believes, i ask a jew.  If i want to know what a muslim person believes, i ask a muslim.  Jews tell me there is no trinity.  Muslims tell me they worship the same god as christians and jews.  What you and all your whacked out nut job experts have to say doesn't supercede what is common knowledge amongst the followers of judaism and islam.

Furthermore, there is no biblical evidence that supports your claims.  You think that because god was spoken of as a plural is proof of trinity?  not so.  You think that because Jesus was called a lord proves divinity? not so.  Jesus referred to his disciples as gods and lordly, that doesn't mean they were divine.  

Someone once told me that the problem with christianity is that people are looking at a hebrew book with greek glasses.  What this means is that the books were written for the jewish people, who culturally are really into parables, stories, and the speak a certain roundabout way.  The greeks have a different culture, they are very precise and calculating, so they didn't get it.  Throw in paul meddling with the teachings of jesus and you can start to see why nobody knows anything about what real christianity really was.

[Sarah]

Steve, your nuts

If i want to know what a jewish person believes, i ask a jew.  If i want to know what a muslim person believes, i ask a muslim.  Jews tell me there is no trinity.  Muslims tell me they worship the same god as christians and jews.  What you and all your whacked out nut job experts have to say doesn't supercede what is common knowledge amongst the followers of judaism and islam.

Furthermore, there is no biblical evidence that supports your claims.  You think that because god was spoken of as a plural is proof of trinity?  not so.  You think that because Jesus was called a lord proves divinity? not so.  Jesus referred to his disciples as gods and lordly, that doesn't mean they were divine.  

Someone once told me that the problem with christianity is that people are looking at a hebrew book with greek glasses.  What this means is that the books were written for the jewish people, who culturally are really into parables, stories, and the speak a certain roundabout way.  The greeks have a different culture, they are very precise and calculating, so they didn't get it.  Throw in paul meddling with the teachings of jesus and you can start to see why nobody knows anything about what real christianity really was.

The trinity is referred to over and over and over again in the Bible.  You don't see it?  I'm sorry.  :-(  The Jews don't see it?  Well, that's because they reject Jesus Christ and who He is.  The Muslims?  They don't know who God is, though they think they do.  But their god has no semblance at all to the one true God. 

You don't think Christianity has anything to do with the OT?  I guess that depends on your definition of Christianity.  If you believe that all it is is a bunch of church going Evangelicals and Catholics, well, then you're right.  But at it's heart, Christianity is nothing but fallen sinful man being reconciled back into a one on one relationship with the Living God.  And that is from the very beginning.  shrug 

[srkruzich]

Steve, your nuts

If i want to know what a jewish person believes, i ask a jew.  If i want to know what a muslim person believes, i ask a muslim.  Jews tell me there is no trinity.  Muslims tell me they worship the same god as christians and jews.  What you and all your whacked out nut job experts have to say doesn't supercede what is common knowledge amongst the followers of judaism and islam.

You are assuming that the ones you ask even know what they believe!  I have found that most don't.

Furthermore, there is no biblical evidence that supports your claims.  You think that because god was spoken of as a plural is proof of trinity?  not so.  You think that because Jesus was called a lord proves divinity? not so.  Jesus referred to his disciples as gods and lordly, that doesn't mean they were divine.  

I've given you nothing but biblical evidence.  Go read the verses i posted.  They specifically show that God is used in a plural form.

Someone once told me that the problem with christianity is that people are looking at a hebrew book with greek glasses.  What this means is that the books were written for the jewish people, who culturally are really into parables, stories, and the speak a certain roundabout way.

Sorry but i know exactly how it was written.  They use synecdoche form of rhetoric to write.  Unfortunately most people today unless your a lawyer don't have a clue how to understand this.


 

The greeks have a different culture, they are very precise and calculating, so they didn't get it.  Throw in paul meddling with the teachings of jesus and you can start to see why nobody knows anything about what real christianity really was.

Your Proof of meddling is?

[Teresa]

If i want to know what a Jewish person believes, i ask a Jew.  If i want to know what a Muslim person believes, i ask a Muslim.  

Furthermore, there is no biblical evidence that supports your claims.  You think that because god was spoken of as a plural is proof of trinity?  not so.  You think that because Jesus was called a lord proves divinity? not so.  Jesus referred to his disciples as gods and lordly, that doesn't mean they were divine.  

Someone once told me that the problem with Christianity is that people are looking at a hebrew book with greek glasses.  What this means is that the books were written for the jewish people, who culturally are really into parables, stories, and the speak a certain roundabout way.  The greeks have a different culture, they are very precise and calculating, so they didn't get it.  Throw in paul meddling with the teachings of jesus and you can start to see why nobody knows anything about what real christianity really was.

I'm not getting into this conversation too deeply.. For my own self protection I keep my spiritual beliefs pretty close to my chest.. but...........................it hard to do that when I have so much I want to say...........................

On this small section of what Anmar just said... I'm standing with him...

[srkruzich]

I'm not getting into this conversation too deeply.. For my own self protection I keep my spiritual beliefs pretty close to my chest.. but...........................it hard to do that when I have so much I want to say...........................

 I know you do teresa.   I am not going to nail you for your beliefs, not nailing anmar for his cause i don't know what his beliefs are. I am just pointing out that islam as we all know is shrouded in lies and deceit to wage a 2 front war.  One side says their a religion of peace the other says their all about killing the infidel and they do.  The side  that is "peaceful" is not peaceful. They want to bring about sharia law from within.  Either way we are under attack as a society. They know they cannot win this war so they come here and try to gain enough converts ect to overwhelm our political system to turn things their way and vote in a government of sharia law.  Its a insidious religion.  Look at england, france, spain, their almost a muslim nation.  

On this small section of what Anmar just said... I'm standing with him...

I think that the majority of people that call themselves christian are doing so in name only.  I think that the definition has gotten watered down. Just because we live in a Christian nation, doesn't mean everyone or even the majority are christians.  We have those who think that if they do good their christian. But the problem is thats not the case.  


On pauls meddling, its kinda hard though for paul to meddle with the 4 gospels, since he didn't write them as well as the OT.  But i didn't quote anything from paul i think.  I quoted David, and Daniel, and Moses, all those figures that it is established that the Torah and talmud all of that is solid and unchanged.  It has never been changed and the jews are masters at keeping accurate accountings.
One doesn't need pauls writings to show it was from the beginning.  IT was all about christ being the way to God from the beginning.

[twirldoggy]

In the beggining was the word and the word was made flesh....