Treason or Patriotism

redcliffsw · December 11, 2009, 09:57:37 AM

Treason or Patriotism: Which Do You Choose?
-Gary Barnett

Lately, I have written several articles for our local newspaper, and because of the subject matter of these writings, I have been involved in much debate about "patriotism." Believe me, it is a frustrating argument and one that gains little reward. When I attempt to define patriotism as I see it, those who think in terms of "it's my country (government) good or bad," and who blindly support any government policy deemed for the good of the nation as a whole or good for national defense, normally become belligerent. I usually come away from these encounters confused and troubled. Of course I get the expected rhetoric, this from both sides of the isle, that I am a hater of America, am unpatriotic, and a supporter of the terrorists. I have even been asked to leave the U.S., (love it or leave it) or more explicitly, to go to Afghanistan or Iraq where I belong. One local state house representative even accused me of being a hired writer for Osama bin Laden. Wow, imagine that? I guess my belief that Muslims are also human was more than he could tolerate.

The bottom line of this nonsense begs the question: "What is patriotism? If one looks to Webster's for a definition, the answer would be "a person who loves his country and defends and promotes its interests." I find this definition too broad, too modern, and completely unacceptable; in other words, incorrect. First, a love of country cannot and does not mean a love of state or a love of government. It does not mean agreeing with anything and everything that the state does outside of protecting the inherent rights of individuals. Actually, self-interest, not collectivism, is the basis of liberty. Secondly, defending and promoting the country's interests could only be proper given that in doing so, no individual or group of individual's rights are violated in any manner. This would include the rights of any and all people on earth, not just those domiciled in America. So, with this in mind, it should become clear to most that patriotism has more to do with dissent and criticism of the state than it has to do with anything else.

Our Founders, although far from perfect, were for the most part patriots, and were very aware of the importance of supporting and fighting for freedom and independence, not supporting and fighting for the country or state apparatus. There is a distinct difference. While this attitude was not as prevalent among all the Founders, especially the Hamiltonians, and was more the lynchpin of the anti-federalists, it was still the primary underlying attitude of the day.

rest of the article:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnett/barnett14.1.html

Anmar · December 11, 2009, 12:59:42 PM

Red, every once in awhile, you post a good article, I actually like this one, kudos.

Warph · December 13, 2009, 12:22:32 PM

I have to agree with anmar.... good article... as most of your posts are, Red.... and Barnett nailed it.

larryJ · December 13, 2009, 11:51:07 PM

Whooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!! I musta signed on to the wrong forum!!!!!!!!!!! Warph is agreeing with Anmar? Was there an armistice declared and I missed it? When did you two kiss and make up? I almost choked on R.A.M.B.O.'s dog food.

Larryj

Anmar · December 14, 2009, 03:02:59 AM

I'm thinking warph didn't read the entire article, especially since the article refers to in Iraq and Afghanistan wars as "evil behavior" Or maybe he chose to ignore it and just decided that we agree on the definition of patriotism. Although Warph thinks its ok for Israel to spy on us, i think patriotism also means standing up for your country against foreign threats, including spying.

sixdogsmom · December 14, 2009, 12:54:04 PM

Oh ya'll have misunderstood Warphs' motives! Don't you remember that Santa Claus will be visiting before long, and Warph is on his best behavior!

srkruzich · December 14, 2009, 01:15:00 PM

Quote from: sixdogsmom on December 14, 2009, 12:54:04 PM
Oh ya'll have misunderstood Warphs' motives! Don't you remember that Santa Claus will be visiting before long, and Warph is on his best behavior!

Woohoo, i might actually get me a deer this year if he does!

Diane Amberg · December 14, 2009, 06:19:30 PM

Which one?

srkruzich · December 15, 2009, 07:31:14 AM

Quote from: Diane Amberg on December 14, 2009, 06:19:30 PM
Which one?

Rudolph would be the easiest.

Warph · December 15, 2009, 10:15:27 AM

Quote from: larryJ on December 13, 2009, 11:51:07 PM
Whooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!! I musta signed on to the wrong forum!!!!!!!!!!! Warph is agreeing with Anmar? Was there an armistice declared and I missed it? When did you two kiss and make up? I almost choked on R.A.M.B.O.'s dog food.
Larryj

Quote from: sixdogsmom on December 14, 2009, 12:54:04 PM
Oh ya'll have misunderstood Warphs' motives! Don't you remember that Santa Claus will be visiting before long, and Warph is on his best behavior!

LOL... Nope.. sorry to disappoint... been busy here at the 19th Hole with our annual Christmas program of "Toys for Wacko's," where we distribute broken toys to our local city politicans for the lousy job they have been doing for the past year.

Okay, on to the forums resident wacko.... let me put this as nice as I can... anmar is still a schlemiel, a schmuck, a putz.... and most all of what he posts is schmegegge. He goes through all of this meshugaas thinking his schtik is the only way to go. When he speaks of Israel, he insists on giving us the same old boring... boring... boring megillah. He reminds me of this yenta that lives down the street. All mouth, no substance.

Of course Israel spies on us. We spy on Israel. Tit for tat. I have all ideas that Israel has stepped up their spying on us tho' because of the way anmar's president obama has treated them. Most of European Union is against them and like I pointed out, obama and his liberal base have no love for them. No wonder they spy on us and other countries. So what's a small David to do against the large Goliath's of today to keep their head above water? SPY! They are the best in the world at this. I bet Israel has anmar's number and he's on their list if he made that trip to Gaza and spent anytime there. They probably read his mail, his computer... what he's smoking, and knows what he has stored in the freezer compartment of his refrigerator. The Israeli's are on to him. He's a marked man tho' he probably doesn't know it. LOL...

(BTW, did you know that Israel is smaller than Lake Michigan?... smaller than Vancouver Island... Check out this comparison map on Israel to the rest of the world below.)
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps.htm