What are public schools *really* doing?

[Varmit]

Diane, you addressed alot of points that aren't the fault of the teachers, and I agree with you on most.  However, I would like to point out a recent poll conducted by National Geographic (yes, I posted this before but it is just as relevent now).  63% of 18 to 24 year olds could not locate Iraq on a map.  70% shrugged their shoulders when asked where Iran and Isreal were, and 90% had no clue where Afghanistan was.  And if you are inclined to cut them some slack on middle eastern geography, consider this 50% couldn't even locate New York State. 

Those are all examples of a poor education system and a direct reflection of teachers. 

If you want to look at the whole 24 hour day, fine, then explain to me why the education system is failing?  Afterall it is teachers that spend most time with students, not parents. 

From the Nation's Report Card, 2008 Assessment...
"The percentage of 17-year-olds at different levels (of reading) have not changed significantly in comparison to 2004 or 1971"

[Diane Amberg]

 Define "failing."As far as the names of countries names are concerned, do you remember some time back when the name of the country changed every time there was a government over throw? The map makers couldn't keep up. Was it the Belgian Congo or what is it this week? How many can you name that used to be something else? Isn't that important for everyone to know? I rather doubt it. I'd like to know the details on that New York thing myself. 50% of whom couldn't locate it? In what context? Why were 24 year olds included? How? They aren't still in school. Would the names and places of those countries be taught in high school in World History? The elementary schools around here do in the context of current events and the fact that some have family members over there. I know I had it in7th grade.The fertile crescent and all that....A very long time ago!    
Can you honestly say you were interested enough in every subject to retain all the information for life? You remember everything you ever learned? I know I sure don't. I get rusty and have to look up stuff every now and then and I'm pretty smart. Does that mean my teachers failed me? Hardly! Don't forget, a lot of learning is learning HOW TO LEARN. There are survey classes and in depth classes. We all had some of each. There was a time when I could rattle off the name of pueblo pottery  just by looking at it. But because I don't use that every day a lot has faded.
So where is Delaware? In New England? The south? Is it next to Vermont or New Hampshire? What states do Delaware border? What's the largest body of water it borders?  What is Delaware's proper abbreviation? What do you mean you don't know without looking it up?
Which is further east Vermont or New Hampshire? Which of the two is more narrow at the bottom?  Which is the largest New England State in land mass? Where does the Appalachian Trail start in the north? Where does it end? Do you care?

[srkruzich]

So where is Delaware? In New England? The south? Is it next to Vermont or New Hampshire? What states do Delaware border?What's the largest body of water it borders?

Delaware is neither.  It is middle ground. far east coast on the Atlantic.  Bordered by new jersey, penn, maryland and virginia.

What is Delaware's proper abbreviation? What do you mean you don't know without looking it up?

DE


Which is further east Vermont or New Hampshire? Which of the two is more arrow at the bottom?  Which is the largest New England State in land mass? Where does the Appalachian Trail start in the north? Where does it end? Do you care?
[/quote]NH is the farthest east and is widest at the bottom vermont is the narrow one.  Maine has the largest land mass, and the Appalachian trail doesn't start in the north it starts at Springer mountain 8 miles north west of Amicolola Falls Georgia, on the sacred indian grounds of the Coosa Indian tribes. 
THe trail ends in Mount Katahdin Maine

And I did not look all this up either.

[Diane Amberg]

   Pretty good, but you did miss Delaware's proper abbreviation. It's Del.  DE is just for the post office. All states have two letter post office abbreviations, but they are meant for the post office only. As the years pass though they may be accepted because nobody cares that much.. When kids are in school they  don't see the relevance of a lot in their lives. They don't care who a bunch of old dead men were who we knew as the "great explorers" either. We've been to the moon, who cares about that old bunch. When some guy goes around the world in a balloon, who cares about Magellan...yawn. We know now that much of the old stories about Columbus aren't really true, but they were believed for so long they have become symbolic. There's nothing wrong with that. Christmas wasn't on Dec. 25th either and our calendar is just one of many. So what!? Shall we ditch Christmas because we know it's wrong?  Why?  Life goes on, discoveries are made, history gets re- written for better or worse. Who decides whether we teach that there are 9 planets or more? You won't ever get a consensus about anything in a school curriculum. So we just plug along doing the best we can and try to put up with the attacks and name calling that don't solve anything.

[Varmit]

No. What happens is that the left tries to divert from the problem by offering strawman arguments. 

Define failing...how about 32 million americans that cannot read or write as a direct result of the pubic school system.  If that doesn't define it for you, then nothing will.

[pamsback]

 

Life goes on, discoveries are made, history gets re- written for better or worse. Who decides whether we teach that there are 9 planets or more? You won't ever get a consensus about anything in a school curriculum. So we just plug along doing the best we can and try to put up with the attacks and name calling that don't solve anything.

Exactly

[Varmit]

You know what, the name calling and attacks might not solve anything but at least they bring to light issues that teachers, unions, administrators, and school boards, sit on their asses and try to ignore.

As for a consensus...how about doing away with prayer in school, not teaching creationism, treating the Confederate flag as a hate symbol, teaching so-called "Diversity".  Parents may not agree with these, but school officals sure as hell do.  Liberal, progressive consensus across the board.

[pamsback]

  You know what Varmit...you are right...PARTIALLY. What they CALL diversity teaching ISN'T really...if it was TRULY diversity teaching.....the Confederate flag would be presented as a symbol of certain poeples HERITAGE instead of as a hate symbol.....kids would KNOW that they can pray ANYtime they want to just by closin their eyes AND that they don't HAVE to......they would teach BOTH creationism AND evolution.....they would teach why billy has two mommies and why it's ok NOT to think it's right......how to be safe having sex AND that it's BEST to wait..... AND parents would SUPPORT said teaching.  That would be too friggin easy though and nobody would have the UPPER hand which is REALLY what it's all about.

[Varmit]

Pam, I can agree with all that except for the prayer thing, and the upper hand bit. 

[Diane Amberg]

Why do people think that schools teach that the confederate flag is a hate symbol? I've seen that on TV and all and a great many people believe it, but I've never bumped into that at school. The two Mommies business I understand because it could be asked by elementary kids, but I never had to deal with it, so I don't know quite how I'd handle it if it came up at school. Some people may be making a big deal out of nothing. It's not unusual  to have lots of non traditional families. We always have had kids who have been raised by grandparents or aunts or uncles or guardians or some combination.Or second marriages where the step father doesn't adopt the child so the last name is different. It's only recently that some people took issue with parts of it.  How is a child reared by two maiden aunts any different than by a gay couple?  I'd rather see that than a string of foster parents, some of whom might be abusive, or placement in an orphanage. Considering all the mess now about predatory priests all over the country, some folks might be wise to keep their opinions to themselves!