House Passes Health Care Bill

[Patriot]

You know I used to think that people were generally smart, independent thinkers, but after watching the election of Obama and the way they LOVE his policies and think he's the greatest president ever.................Now I just don't know any more.  It seems more and more that people will follow the majority and very few are independent thinkers any more but rather do what everyone else seems to be doing and want government to take care of their every need even at the expense of their own freedoms.

Yup.... but think about it for a minute.  We blindly turn our kids over to the state for 'education' daily.  The curriculum in our schools is to a lesser and lesser degree controlled by the local community.  We give these kids to the very same government we're complaining about here, and wonder why they come out (in some cases) functionally illiterate.  The non-thinkers you talk about turn their kids over to the state, don't do any serious civics education at home and it's no wonder we churn out 'go along to get along' kids who are not independent thinkers.  The system of education we have now was fomented in the minds of people who were openly socialist/communist.  Heck, look at the Communist Manifesto!  One of the main tenets of that document is government control of the education of children!  Can you say, "indoctrination"?  And we wonder why the libs want sooooo badly to mandate government education beginning in Pre-K and why there is so much drive to make school a 12 month thing.  Sometimes it really isn't about better education.... just different education.  Once again, just like with health care, we just aren't smart enough to provide an education for our kids... the govt knows better!

We want our country back!  And we want it back sooner rather than later!

[Sarah]

You're right and I totally agree., the problem lies in I don't think the majority of people think that way any more.     And you know, it really isn't the country's fault.  This has been going on for years and years.  The government introduces an idea.  They work things in soo gradually that people fail to realize what's happening.  Sort of like the toad in the pan of hot water thing.  If you say something long enough people will begin to believe that it's true.

[Warph]

You're right and I totally agree., the problem lies in I don't think the majority of people think that way any more.     And you know, it really isn't the country's fault.  This has been going on for years and years.  The government introduces an idea.  They work things in soo gradually that people fail to realize what's happening.  Sort of like the toad in the pan of hot water thing.  If you say something long enough people will begin to believe that it's true.

Don't despair, Sarah... this thing still has to get through the senate.  I for one don't think it will unless the demo's really pull some dirty tricks... and don't forget 2010.  I have all ideas that a number of democrats will be voted out of office.  Here is a list of Senators you can track coming up for re-election:

Democratic incumbents
1 Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas
2 Barbara Boxer of California
2.3.3 Michael Bennet of Colorado
4 Christopher Dodd of Connecticut
5 Daniel Inouye of Hawaii
6 Evan Bayh of Indiana
7 Barbara Mikulski of Maryland
8 Harry Reid of Nevada
9 Kirsten Gillibrand of New York
10 Chuck Schumer of New York
11 Byron Dorgan of North Dakota
12 Ron Wyden of Oregon
13 Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania
14 Patrick Leahy of Vermont
15 Patty Murray of Washington
16 Russ Feingold of Wisconsin

[Varmit]

Warph, I wish I was as optimistic as you are.  I fear that this health care thing is going to pass, in one form or another.  The Repubs are to willing to compromise on the issue.  As for the 2010 elections, I think they are a false hope. 

[Sarah]

I'm kind of with you Varmit.  I think it will probably pass the Senate sooner or later if the Dems will put enough enticements on there to get the Republicans to swing over to their way of voting.  I believe if the one Independent in the Senate will swing toward the Dem side, they have enough votes to pass the bill even with Republican opposition.  I've heard it'll probably pass and I've heard that the cap and trade thing will more than likely pass too.  Pretty soon we'll all be dirt poor due to taxes and other fines and fees.

[redcliffsw]

Warph, you've made a good point and I'm hoping that it'll fail.

Varmit, I think you're right about the Republicans.  They've been a false hope on
many things over the years and there'll never be an improvement on their part.
The party of Lincoln has done severe damage to this country throughout the years
since its inception and now the Democrats seem intent to complete what the
Republicans started.

[Warph]

You can be sure that one of four things are going to happen:

They can pass the bill as written, which is unlikely to happen

They can pass it with amendments, and send it back to the House of Representatives

The measure can be defeated 

Joe Lieberman can follow through with his threat and start a filibuster, and kill the bill without a vote, which can be a win-win for Senators, both repubs and demos, who were against the bill but afraid to vote against it for political reasons.

[Anmar]

Some form of reform is inevitable.  I agree that competition will fix the market, but the health insurance industry has been protected from competition for a long long time.  The republicans had complete control of the government for 6+ years and did nothing.  They went against their own party principles to keep power and make money for their friends.  Consider this a consequence for selling out.

[Warph]

House Democrats missed opportunities to improve the House-passed health care bill when they rejected Republican ideas to limit lawsuits and give states more flexibility to enact innovative changes, a Republican lawmaker said Saturday.

Delivering the Republicans' weekly radio and Internet address, Rep. Mark Kirk of Illinois said health care costs could be lowered by "reining in lawsuits" and allowing consumers to buy coverage from across state lines. Kirk promoted several provisions in the House Republican health care bill, which was rejected a week ago when the House passed the Democratic plan.

"Unfortunately, all of these commonsense Republican reforms were rejected by Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi," Kirk said in the address. "The Pelosi health care bill has no significant lawsuit reforms and does not guarantee your medical rights from government waiting lines or restrictions."

Kirk, who is in his fifth House term representing the suburbs north of Chicago, is a candidate for the Republican nomination to run for the Senate seat that was held by President Barack Obama. He called the House Democrats' health plan "a new massive spending program, supported by heavy taxes and heavy cuts to senior health care."

"In sum, the bill opens a new trillion-dollar entitlement just as our national debt tops $12 trillion," Kirk said.

The House Democrats' bill would cost $1.2 trillion over 10 years and expand coverage to an additional 36 million people. The Republican plan would reduce federal deficits by $68 billion over the 10-year period and push down premiums for privately insured people but would reduce the number of uninsured by just 3 million, according to an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office.

The House Democrats' bill would raise $460 billion over the next decade from new income taxes on single people making more than $500,000 a year and couples making more than $1 million. There are also more than $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid and a new $20 billion fee on medical device makers.

The House Republican bill had no new taxes. Republicans would get savings by capping medical liability awards, stepping up efforts to fight Medicare and Medicaid fraud, and setting up an approval process for generic versions of high-tech drugs.