Once again the country is going to see that $4 number at the pump...

[pepelect]

Our only commercial plant in Kansas cost 30 years and $3 billion in 1985 dollars to build.  It produces 1200mw of power. It cost $12.49 to operate per mw in 1992.   We have enough onsite storage capacity for the spent rods only until the year 2025.


Current wind farms produce power at less than $0.05 per kilowatt.  $0.035 per kw if financed by a wind developer.  2 1/2cents a kw if internally financed by a utility.  3 billion dollars in 1985 dollars would produce mountains of power today with lots of upside.  Nofuel hazards(minus the tornados), no disposal, no NRC, 12 month turnaround, and abundant power supply.   We live in Kansas the wind blows here more that almost anywhere else.  

[Anmar]

The new Solar film that nanosolar is producing is also very cheap in terms of capacity.  As I mentioned, i think we need a mixture.  The wind comes and goes as does the sun.  I have to admit i don't know much about wind, but when it comes to solar, storing the energy has been a problem.

I'm a dreamer, so I'm always thinking about hydrogen fuel cells and the likes.

[flintauqua]

Patrick,  I am an avid supporter of wind power, and I agree with your enthusiastic post.  But there is one drawback to wind power as an ultimate solution.  It cannot be considered or commissioned as "base load generation".  You can't expect the wind to blow 24/7 at a constant speed.  You also cannot always ramp it up to cover peak spikes.  

If we could figure out a way to store the energy created from wind (and solar) to where it could be added to the grid as needed in a controlled manner, then we can put windmills and solar panels anywhere and everywhere.

My favorite solutions to this are:

1.  Use electricity from wind or solar to create hydrogen from water, then use the hydrogen as we use natural gas now, either base load, or rampable peak load generation.

2.  Use wind and solar generation to enhance current, and construct new, pump-back hydro generation facilities.  Use wind and solar to augment power purchased at off peak times to pump water uphill, which is then dropped back through hydro turbines at peak load times.

Both of these processes are being experimented with, and hopefully one or both will prove to be a viable addition to our energy portfolio.

[pepelect]

There is a cool tech. that combines wind with natural gas. It uses the wind power to pump natural gas to substrate and when the wind isn't blowing it burns gas. 

Another possibility is to use wind to build up water potential.  This has been utilized in mountainous terrain where great elevations can be easily achieved.  You use the wind to pump the water then use the water to turn the turbine when the wind isn't blowing. 

Both utilize smart grid control.  The amazing thing about electricity is the ability for it to travel great distances.  The cost is resistance and heat.  New grid and superconductors would really help get Midwest power to power starved coasts. 

The advantage of fuel cells are redundant systems.  If one fails who cares you could have 20.  If you need more just fire more up.  If you need less they turn off. 


You can peak load predict pretty easily.  Spin natural gas gen sets and activate when peak loading is needed. That tech is in use today.

The wind doesn't need to be constant just the output of the unit.  That technology is in use today also.

[Anmar]

Its nice to see that people are actually doing some critical thinking and using the good ol american ingenuity instead of running around chanting "drill now" like a bunch of oil company execs.

[pepelect]

We have already done that.   At the base of every one of the current wind farm sites is a existing oil field.  There are tank batteries underneath the windfarm at Beaumont, ks.  The oil here is all but dried up.  More is trickling out but there is no mass ocean. 

The wind is blowing all the time some where.  How do you put wind farms up every where to utilize the potential?  It is never dead calm at 80m all across even  the flat state of Kansas.  I guess the same can be said for solar.  The sun is shining somewhere all the time.  How you tie it all together?

[flintauqua]

I'm actually against drilling now, and actually favor shutting in some fields domestically.  (The uber-rightists wll love that line from me )

But, here's my reason:

Let's use the rest of the worlds' oil and gas first, and save ours for later, after most of the rest of the world has none.  Then who would have a strategic advantage?

[pepelect]

France they have more nukes than anyone else.

[srkruzich]

I do agree that nuclear should be a major part of our energy moving forward.  Hopefully there will be a push in tech that will give us some kind of way to safely store the waste.

repeal the law that carter had passed preventing us from recycling the waste.  If you follow the lifecycle of a rod, it should be used in one reactor, then reformulated, and used in another type of reactor, and on down til it's used up, and any waste leftover can be used for extraction of medical and industrial isotopes.