Experimenting with Education

[pepelect]

That is crap.  You can't takes kids in to the kind of plants that I work at.  Oh honey don't but the antifreeze in your mouth.  Please pour the hexane out of your sisters shoe.  You can't expose them to the hazards of high voltage or heights.  No that is not a H1N1 cough we just worked at a grain elevator yesterday.  In ten years someone asks where did you go to school.   I was in the front seat of the truck for the last ten years because of the OSHA regulations, child labor laws, and my fathers commitment to homeschooling. 

I am going to drag all three kids in the cab of a pickup for the next six months to feed cattle.  Where would the dog sit?  We already have assigned seats.

The computer class is a prime example of what I am talking about.  How can you teach something you have no clue about?  Technology changes constantly.  If you are taking a refresher course on networking who is taking the refresher course on macroeconomics?  Where is the study guide for the feed rations with ddg comparisons?  How can you possibly be all things at all times?  Why do you think that you are the only human on face of the earth that cares about your kids?  Where are your teaching credentials?  If you are an axe-murderer do you teach your kids only axe-murdering or do you expand out to slicing with a katana?  You might be the best axe-murderer in the world and would make any mother proud but is that what you want the next generation to learn?
You say that you are a better businessman than Bill Gates, that gun laws don't apply to you so with that judgement call on your resume`how can you honestly say that your teaching skills are superior to that of every teacher in the public school district? 

You are not letting your kids have a level playing field if you limit them to your experiences.

[Diane Amberg]

I know I am very late at jumping into this, but I just have to make some comments. All schools aren't the same, just as all people aren't the same. Private schools that can cherry pick the kids they accept are always going to have kids with good grades and attitudes or they are sent packing. Public schools have to take what they are given. I'm really sorry that some of you had bad experiences, but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. Some inner city schools in the biggest, oldest cities do have problems, but not all of them do.There are very innovative creative teachers out there who do miracles with tough kids. As far as our Government "indoctrinating our kids"...think about that. One of you said other countries' kids can top ours with less time in school. So, it's OK if they they totally indoctrinate their kids as their Gov't sees fit as long as they can beat our kids in math? Socialist countries, communist countries...Some have tough education standards and the kids can parrot back things that can be memorized. But at what cost? They can spew the party line at a very young age. You want your job threatened because your kid isn't quite good enough in school? You want to go to prison because your child acted up? Your kid gets the best grades and suddenly you are qualified to get a bigger house or a nicer apartment? You want some Gov't telling you how many kids you can have? (But the one you are allowed will get a great education...or else!) Be careful what you wish for. Or maybe we can go back to chaining kids to the looms again, just think how much they can learn. That's why there are child labor laws....notice the big exemption for farms and ranches...they need all the child labor they can get, maybe throw in a few orphans while we're at it.
Around here ( I know you aren't interested) private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers are. I had private schools try to hire me away a number of times, but the pay was worse than mine.
As far as the parent needing to be the main educator.... Well of course they should, but most don't. Does one toss those kids aside?( What kind of Christian thinking is that?)  When I was teaching in Maryland we had kids come into Kindergarten who weren't even toilet trained!
By the way, the IT guy and computer teacher at Newark Charter is a computer specialist, hired just for that. Now if I was teaching computers, I'd agree. I'm definitely not qualified. If you have some short comings in your school system out there, do what you can to fix them. Don't assume we all have them.

[Sarah]

I know I am very late at jumping into this, but I just have to make some comments. All schools aren't the same, just as all people aren't the same. Private schools that can cherry pick the kids they accept are always going to have kids with good grades and attitudes or they are sent packing. Public schools have to take what they are given. I'm really sorry that some of you had bad experiences, but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. Some inner city schools in the biggest, oldest cities do have problems, but not all of them do.There are very innovative creative teachers out there who do miracles with tough kids. As far as our Government "indoctrinating our kids"...think about that. One of you said other countries' kids can top ours with less time in school. So, it's OK if they they totally indoctrinate their kids as their Gov't sees fit as long as they can beat our kids in math? Socialist countries, communist countries...Some have tough education standards and the kids can parrot back things that can be memorized. But at what cost? They can spew the party line at a very young age. You want your job threatened because your kid isn't quite good enough in school? You want to go to prison because your child acted up? Your kid gets the best grades and suddenly you are qualified to get a bigger house or a nicer apartment? You want some Gov't telling you how many kids you can have? (But the one you are allowed will get a great education...or else!) Be careful what you wish for. Or maybe we can go back to chaining kids to the looms again, just think how much they can learn. That's why there are child labor laws....notice the big exemption for farms and ranches...they need all the child labor they can get, maybe throw in a few orphans while we're at it.
Around here ( I know you aren't interested) private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers are. I had private schools try to hire me away a number of times, but the pay was worse than mine.
As far as the parent needing to be the main educator.... Well of course they should, but most don't. Does one toss those kids aside?( What kind of Christian thinking is that?)  When I was teaching in Maryland we had kids come into Kindergarten who weren't even toilet trained!
By the way, the IT guy and computer teacher at Newark Charter is a computer specialist, hired just for that. Now if I was teaching computers, I'd agree. I'm definitely not qualified. If you have some short comings in your school system out there, do what you can to fix them. Don't assume we all have them.

Diane, I think we already said that we were not talking about West Elk IN PARTICULAR, but about public schools IN GENERAL.  Yes I realize that public schools have to take what they get and a lot of times that's parents that couldn't give a twit less about their kids.  This whole argument is to Pep who thinks that NO ONE should homeschool.  This argument is not about the teachers out here or the kids out here or the school out here, but in general across the nation.  Teachers in public schools do what they can with what they've got, but it is a right as a parent to school their children at home if they so desire and often times, homeschool children come out shining ahead of their public school counterparts.  Not always, but a large chunk of the time they do.  And your apology for our experience was probably about inner city schools?  Nope, mine was actually at a private school, you know, those ones that cherry pick their kids and it wasn't any better in the school district which I grew up in which was Goddard.  You know, the one that's always bragging about how they're the best in the state?  I had friends that went there and it was just as bad or worse.  West Elk's advantage is that they are a small school still.  That keeps it nice.  Keeps parents more involved in what's going on.  Still has that small town way of thinking and that's what helps.  

[greatguns]

Now I know what's wrong !!!!!  Hell, Mom made me go to school.

[Sarah]

Now I know what's wrong !!!!!  Hell, Mom made me go to school.

Awweee, now I knew you couldn't stay quiet forever.   

[pepelect]

 This whole argument is to Pep who thinks that NO ONE should homeschool.  

Really, I was just stating that joining a pta organization does not make the school fat and pad their pockets. 

[srkruzich]

That is crap.  You can't takes kids in to the kind of plants that I work at.  Oh honey don't but the antifreeze in your mouth.  Please pour the hexane out of your sisters shoe.  You can't expose them to the hazards of high voltage or heights. 

I'm sure you do some jobs there that don't involve 440 and hexane.   Still you miss my point about teaching them.  

Where is the study guide for the feed rations with ddg comparisons? 

WHy not utilize the computer your typing on, to look up the feed rations comparisons.  I know i do.  Shoot how about this, i look up the protein levels of corn, oats and soybean so that I can mix my feed to meet the needs of my animals.

How can you possibly be all things at all times?

Well where theres a will theres a way.  What about you?  You are electrician right?  you run a grocery store Right?  You probably have SOME knowlege of prescription drugs....

Why do you think that you are the only human on face of the earth that cares about your kids? 

I never said i was.  

Where are your teaching credentials?

well, lets see.  2 AS deg, 15 years of Computer Sciences including telecommunications, Satellite Communications, 4 years of OTR Truck driving, Construction, cooking, and about 20 years of mechanical repair and Mechanical engineering.  
Now before ya get all hot n bothered about the time, I started working on engines and cars when i was 8 years old. Been doing it since.  Started working in construction at 13 years old and OMG I was wiring! At 15 i was wiring up service panels.   Then comes the fun part, cooking for a living.... Lasted all of 3 years before i said the hell with this.  OTR was fun, got to learn a hell of a lot about our country by seeing it first hand. All the major historical places.  Lots of history.  Then you get into my career in the electronics and computer sciences.

If you are an axe-murderer do you teach your kids only axe-murdering or do you expand out to slicing with a katana?

Well being that if i were a axe murderer, i would probably be adept at every type of cutlery available to my trade. I would only choose to use a axe if that was my preferred weapon and i would give them an array of wonderful sharp instruments to practice with to find out which one would suit their educational needs.

You might be the best axe-murderer in the world and would make any mother proud but is that what you want the next generation to learn?

Maybe, if its good enough for lizzy its good enough for them.

You say that you are a better businessman than Bill Gates, that gun laws don't apply to you so with that judgement call on your resume`how can you honestly say that your teaching skills are superior to that of every teacher in the public school district? 

Actually no i don't.  My English skills suck these days.  SO i would go back to class and bone up on my skills.

You are not letting your kids have a level playing field if you limit them to your experiences.

I can tell you something, I had a grandfather that taught me tons of things growing up, and I still wish i could have learned more from him. There wasn't enough time in my life to aquire his skills and knowlege.  

[srkruzich]

I know I am very late at jumping into this, but I just have to make some comments. All schools aren't the same, just as all people aren't the same. Private schools that can cherry pick the kids they accept are always going to have kids with good grades and attitudes or they are sent packing. Public schools have to take what they are given. I'm really sorry that some of you had bad experiences, but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush. Some inner city schools in the biggest, oldest cities do have problems, but not all of them do.

Ok diane, private schools will take kids that can pay the tuition fee. What are you talking about cherry picking?  IF your talking about the ones that won't abide by rules, yeah your right. Personally i believe education is a priveledge not a right. you have to earn it.  I am of the belief that if a kid decides they do not wish to abide by the rules and learn, then send em down the road. Let them live in ignorance.

As far as our Government "indoctrinating our kids"...think about that. One of you said other countries' kids can top ours with less time in school. So, it's OK if they they totally indoctrinate their kids as their Gov't sees fit as long as they can beat our kids in math? Socialist countries, communist countries...Some have tough education standards and the kids can parrot back things that can be memorized. But at what cost? They can spew the party line at a very young age. You want your job threatened because your kid isn't quite good enough in school? You want to go to prison because your child acted up? Your kid gets the best grades and suddenly you are qualified to get a bigger house or a nicer apartment? You want some Gov't telling you how many kids you can have? (But the one you are allowed will get a great education...or else!) Be careful what you wish for. Or maybe we can go back to chaining kids to the looms again, just think how much they can learn. That's why there are child labor laws....notice the big exemption for farms and ranches...they need all the child labor they can get, maybe throw in a few orphans while we're at it.

I agree!  Thats why i am against the indoctrination programs.  Europe is that way, we have succombed to that teaching method, not totally though.

Around here ( I know you aren't interested) private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers are. I had private schools try to hire me away a number of times, but the pay was worse than mine.

That is a regional thing too.

As far as the parent needing to be the main educator.... Well of course they should, but most don't. Does one toss those kids aside?( What kind of Christian thinking is that?)  When I was teaching in Maryland we had kids come into Kindergarten who weren't even toilet trained!

Ok so where did the parents go to school?  I'll guarantee you that they didn't go to a private school.

By the way, the IT guy and computer teacher at Newark Charter is a computer specialist, hired just for that. Now if I was teaching computers, I'd agree. I'm definitely not qualified. If you have some short comings in your school system out there, do what you can to fix them. Don't assume we all have them.

I don't know what network charter is. sorry.  Computer classes i any school cannot be properly taught unless you draw away from the business world a IT guy.  the technology goes out of date faster than it can be taught.

[pepelect]

What is next after the deconstruction of sentences?  Explain to me dinosaurs.  Use any bible reference you want.  

My kids are so stupid I don't waste my time teaching them things they can learn off the tv.  


You have a drivers license to drive a car.  But you don't think you need to be an accredited teachers with certificate to teach.  If there was a fine involved, maybe?  There is a big difference between knowing the knowledge and teaching the child.  I am talking about a well rounded education.  I mean that you teach the student to the extent of the students abilities to learn not the limitations of the teacher.  You can't offer the unlimited supply of knowledge that an entire school can about every subject.  Yes you could handle the basics but that only gets you in the door.  You still have to get out the door.  The difference between home and public  education is the extent of the knowledge of the teacher.  The part that is the same between home and public education is the extent of the knowledge of the teacher.  

[Sarah]

What is next after the deconstruction of sentences?  Explain to me dinosaurs.  Use any bible reference you want.  

My kids are so stupid I don't waste my time teaching them things they can learn off the tv.  


You have a drivers license to drive a car.  But you don't think you need to be an accredited teachers with certificate to teach.  If there was a fine involved, maybe?  There is a big difference between knowing the knowledge and teaching the child.  I am talking about a well rounded education.  I mean that you teach the student to the extent of the students abilities to learn not the limitations of the teacher.  You can't offer the unlimited supply of knowledge that an entire school can about every subject.  Yes you could handle the basics but that only gets you in the door.  You still have to get out the door.  The difference between home and public  education is the extent of the knowledge of the teacher.  The part that is the same between home and public education is the extent of the knowledge of the teacher.  

You know, I for one am not going to argue with you any more.  There are 1,000's of kids that are homeschooled that are coming out ahead of their public AND private school counterparts that proves that yes parents can teach all things and the idea behind teaching any child is to give them a love for learning so that they can go on and learn and teach themselves whatever interests them for the rest of their lives.   You know, our oldest daughter was actually raised by my mother-in-law and was homeschooled her entire life.  She is now grown up, but she knows above and beyond most public school kids.  At 18 she was already through college courses and knew 2 major languages including latin.  She can go on to do anything she wants and she was taught by my mother in law.  Was she certified to teach?  Nope.  She never went to college, in fact, she never graduated high school.  It can be done and it IS done every day across the country.  Don't knock what you know nothing about.