Convince Me

[okiemon]

Ok we are getting a 30,000 sq ft building for $5,500,000. How did you arrive at that figure of 30,000 sq ft?

I don't how you could have gotten a price of $1.5million for the Gym when nothing was pieced out.

I got that price talking to people in Howard while shopping.

Moline and Severy elementary children will have to ride the bus to school the same length of time that the Howard kids have been riding the bus to school for the past 38 years

Moline and Severy Jr. High and High school kids have been riding the bus to Howard for how long?

Families with kids will still move to the area and shop in local stores, buy feed and clothes at the feed store, call the coop to change the tractor tires, trucks will still breakdown or have flats, people will still need their picture taken, we will still need to buy insurance, the fuel tanks will still need to be filled, the crops will still need to be fertilized, someone will need to stay the night.

So nothing will change? Lets close the school in Howard and consolidate with another school district.

How soon we forget.  That building in Howard was sold at least three time since it was a school.

If they would have demolished it in 1979 everybody in the school district would of helped pay for it, now it looks like the citizens of Howard are going to pay for it. Lets not do that to Moline and Severy.

I would not want the school board telling me what do do with my property so why do you want a plan for a potential asset of Moline and Severy or even a private citizen the board doesn't not have the jurisdiction?

Why are the grade schools a liability when we want to close them and an asset when someone ask what will be done with them when they're closed?

I will probably vote yes on the bond issue though I still have some doubts. I would like some in depth details on what we are getting, also are we going to need new desk, lockers, gym equipment, office equipment.... I think one of the main issues against the bond is going to be the small town vs small town thing, I know it is for me.

[pepelect]

The architect, construction manager, community input, board input, teacher input, and students all had input on what the school district needs as far as space per classroom, number of classrooms, arrangement of class rooms, size and scope of multipurpose room, Fema structure reinforcing locations, access to building, and location.  The school board will have final say but the information came from anyone and every one.  If you have any suggestions we are still gathering information.

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.  You wanted to know the impact on Moline and Severy.  Then you turn it around and say you want to close Howard.  I stated what I thought would happen to the business in and around Moline and Severy.  I do not buy in to the fact that the school drives commerce.  It that was the case then every summer you would have ghost towns.  Every time that school is not in session you would see a decline in commerce.  I think the problem lies more in the fact that people don't trade locally as much as they want you to believe.  If there is a need for a service, business, or product then someone will provide it because it generates income.  The problem is you have too much overhead in a small town and everyone needs to shop in that small town.  If you would replace a closed business with a new one you don't lose anything. 

I started to Grade School in 1973 at Moline.  My brother went in 1972.  That is 37 years.   OK I was one year long.

If consolidation with another district makes more sense than I would be in favor of that.  The problem is that we have contacted other districts and they are no interested. 

The grade schools are both an asset and a liability just as taxes to you are a liability but to the school systems they are an asset.

[D Whetstone]

Why are the grade schools a liability when we want to close them and an asset when someone ask what will be done with them when they're closed?

They are a liability when the district could operate more efficiently with one building. We do not control our income except for the Local Option Budget.  The schools income is dictated by the state.

In a for profit business, the income is dictated by the quality of service or product you deliver and the demand by your customers.  The buildings would be an asset to a well planned, for profit business. 

These are just very different operating structures and the reality is we have very little control over the school financing.

David

[PrehistoricRez]

Ive gone through and read every post here, alot seems to be repetitive.  For the sake of starting somewhere, I am going to start with Mr W's  qoute here.

"They are a liability when the district could operate more efficiently with one building. We do not control our income except for the Local Option Budget.  The schools income is dictated by the state."

For the sake of spending $5.5 Million on a 30,000 sqft complex.  I am going to have to go out on a limb, and say I feel as though I am getting ripped off. Start off by taking a look at this school http://www.educationdesignshowcase.com/view.esiml?pid=110 .  This school was built in 2006 for the entire complex K-12, 78,000 sqft for just over $9.5million.   For all you math wiz's out there, we are paying $183 sqft, that was $122 sqft.  Why dont we just pay the extra couple dollars on top of the proposed mill increase and get an entire new school, not a cut and pasted one. That school was designed for 625 students. That would give our 350 plenty of room.   And while we are at adding on to the increase, tax on an extra $1mill or so for teacher raises, to make up the 10-12K needed to keep them from going to the bigger schools an hour away.   I dont feel the special teachers that got $20,000 raises this year need another one, but the normal teachers that have to be in a class everyday actually teaching that received $500 raises in that same period do.

This "vote yes" campaign for the new school reminds me alot of.....its on the tip of my tongue....oh yeah the "YES WE CAN" campaing last year for president.   Look what all of you did to us that voted for "YES WE CAN".   Pushing for the vote, not really caring about the concerns.  Just go at it as "Our way is the better way".

The busing nightmare will not get any better if the people in charge are not removed and replaced with someone with some knowledge of logistics.    How does it make sense for 1 kid to be dropped off at one time and kid directly behind them dropped off 1 hour later.  This does happen.  Then when the people in charge are confronted, they say there is nothing that can be done about it.

"we've seen a good number of families move back into the area. They are opening business....."  Could someone elaborate for me, what businesses have opened lately?

To Rudy's "All I have to do is drive though Grenola, Elk city, etc.and other communities to see that no one gives a hoot about properties that were once schools"  You dont have to drive far at all, Just drive through Howard.  That building is a true eyesore, whomever owns it, charges should be filed against them to either fix it or tear it down.

The current elem schools would be put up for sale but not to a private school organization.  Maybe thats just what we need here to drive higher teacher salaries and excellence.  Whats the difference if someone wanted to go to one of the better local schools if there were one or two.  or someone going to another local school (Longton) because they didnt like the kids or the teachers at the main school (West Elk)

You want to repurpose the buildings, I would just like to see the repurposed into crushed stone.   If you want to repurpose them, that will take more tax money and man hours that no one will want to do.   Kind of like the old bank building in Howard, its funded for whoever wants to renovate it, and still it sits rotting.

I liked this quote the best of the whole subject "its irresponsible for any government body to saddle a community with the responsibility of a building with the ideas of what cannot be done to it, and expect the community to pay for it"

One person said the rumor is $1.5mill for the gym, if we are using the same cafeteria and auditorium, then why do we need a separate gym?

To Pepelect - you said in wilson ks  the school was turned into a private nursing home, one molines already closed because of lack of people, 2. would that be the same concept as a private school competing, because that nursing home would compete with howards.  if howards losing victims then the taxes would go up...

Lastly, You state the bond is currently set for 15 years, but the mentions 30cents a day rate is based on the 20 year repayment plan.   Is this the same type of misdirection used by our federal governement?

[Tobina+1]

I would like to politely remind people that this school discussion has been going on for quite some time... and at least the last 2 years hot and heavy.  Maybe you would have been better served to take your questions and concerns to the school board meetings and become involved through the entire process... not just dogging the "vote yes" group at the last minute. 

Another reminder; the SCHOOL BOARD has agreed upon the proposed changes and mills and THEY are the ones to take the issue to a public vote.  The "vote yes" group is just a voice for the school board and the plan.  If you have serious concerns, I would recommend that you visit with your ELECTED school board member for your area.  These school board members have been working hard for a long time on coming up with a plan to help save money and save the future of the schools.  I know many of them have dropped all other community activities and groups just so they could commit fully to the school board during this difficult time.

[D Whetstone]

Lastly, You state the bond is currently set for 15 years, but the mentions 30cents a day rate is based on the 20 year repayment plan.   Is this the same type of misdirection used by our federal governement?

Please specifically show us, in this discussion, where it says the 30cents/day is based on a 20 year repayment plan.  I can't find it.

The 30 cents/day is based on a 15 year bond.  This information was provided to us by the bond consultant. I can show you the information in print if you like. Please send me a personal message w/ your mailing address and I will personally see that you get the information.

David

[pepelect]

"we've seen a good number of families move back into the area. They are opening business....."  Could someone elaborate for me, what businesses have opened lately?
To Rudy's "All I have to do is drive though Grenola, Elk city, etc.and other communities to see that no one gives a hoot about properties that were once schools"  You dont have to drive far at all, Just drive through Howard.  That building is a true eyesore, whomever owns it, charges should be filed against them to either fix it or tear it down.
To Pepelect - you said in wilson ks  the school was turned into a private nursing home, one molines already closed because of lack of people, 2. would that be the same concept as a private school competing, because that nursing home would compete with howards.  if howards losing victims then the taxes would go up...
Lastly, You state the bond is currently set for 15 years, but the mentions 30cents a day rate is based on the 20 year repayment plan.   Is this the same type of misdirection used by our federal government?

I wish you could read as well as you misquote.  I never said that Wilson built a nursing home.  They built an assisted living center which doesn't compete directly with the existing nursing home in Wilson.  It is a good mesh.

As far as the building in Howard.  It was perfectly fine and a private building for 20 years after it was a school.  If someone wrecks your car  that you sold 20 years ago and kills a person are you charged with the homicide?

It will take 15 years to pay off the principle of $5.5million bond at 4.25%.

The increase in taxes on a $50k home would be approx.  $100.92 per year.    

$100.92 dollars a year divided by 365 is $0 .2765 dollars a day.

                                                                                                       That is less than 30 cents a day.

$100.92 x 15 years is only $1513.80 total for the life of the bond.

[sixdogsmom]

And when it comes time to furnish this new school, where are do these funds come from? Landscaping, insurance? If the building in Howard was 'perfectly fine' why was it abandoned for a new building? Why is the school in Moline needing a new roof when nearly all the buildings in town got a new roof after the mega-hailstorm a few years back? Where did the insurance money go? If the building in Moline is so old it is useless, we should probably raze the old courthouse in Howard. It is well over 100 years old is it not? Moline could probably do a better job of caring for the countys' business anyway. And BTW, why am I hearing that public school employees are being used to pass out 'vote yes' literature? I posted questions at the beginning of this thread and have 'dogged' nobody Tobina. I am still waiting for answers to most of those questions BTW.

[D Whetstone]

And BTW, why am I hearing that public school employees are being used to pass out 'vote yes' literature?

If a public school employee wants to support the bond election, they are able to do so. They cannot promote the bond while working at the school, during school hours/classes. Outside of school, they can promote if they choose to do so. They are not being used. They are doing so on their own accord because they believe it is the right thing to do.

David

[pepelect]

And when it comes time to furnish this new school, where are do these funds come from? Landscaping, insurance? If the building in Howard was 'perfectly fine' why was it abandoned for a new building? Why is the school in Moline needing a new roof when nearly all the buildings in town got a new roof after the mega-hailstorm a few years back? Where did the insurance money go? If the building in Moline is so old it is useless, we should probably raze the old courthouse in Howard. It is well over 100 years old is it not? Moline could probably do a better job of caring for the countys' business anyway. And BTW, why am I hearing that public school employees are being used to pass out 'vote yes' literature? I posted questions at the beginning of this thread and have 'dogged' nobody Tobina. I am still waiting for answers to most of those questions BTW.

The building in Howard was abandoned because it was not necessary to have three grade schools back in the seventies.  The school was built and the grade schools were moved to Moline and Severy.  The attendence was about double of what it is now.

The south 2/3 of the Moline roof was replaced recently.  The north 1/3 needs to be replaced.

I am all for razing the Elk County Courthouse.  If you think you can come up with $5.5million dollars worth of explosives I will personally help you by leading the campaign to do just that.  As it is the most reinforced building in the entire county it would take 10 years to tear that structure down.  I believe it is going to be getting a new roof by the awarding of a grant to do so.

Moline is a part of the county. SO how could a part of the county do a better job of caring for themselves?  There are Moline residents that work at the Elk County Courthouse.  As well as Grenola, Longton, ......


Why shouldn't we move it to Elk Falls?

"we've seen a good number of families move back into the area. They are opening business....."  Could someone elaborate for me, what businesses have opened lately?

We have a photography studio, hugely expanded feed store, new hair salon, new grocery store, tracy's trends, dm guns, Bryants blooms, Zimmerman funeral home is reopened, elk falls pottery has new employee, the county has a great economic director, and that is just off the top of my head.  New business and new faces are what is driving this county not negativity and unproductive dialogue.