President Obama's Speech to School Children

[Varmit]

Diane, I don't mind teachers having to take disciplinary steps, as long as they don't go too far.  However, it is when a teacher starts to moralize that I have a problem.  For example, little johnny gets into trouble for calling another a "faggot".  Teacher says to little johnny, "We don't use that word because it is derogatory and offends homosexuals."  Well, this is where, as a parent, I would have a problem.  I believe and am teaching my children that homosexuality is a sin.  Now given the fact that schools are becoming more "diverse", and there is an emphasis being placed on children being more tolerant, who are my kids supposed to believe? 

Now whether you agree with my view on homosexuality or not is irrelevant.  I only used that as an example.

[srkruzich]

Steve;  really?  What you're saying is that if your child was doing something wrong and against your beliefs or morals (or manners), you wouldn't want someone to help correct your child's mistake and put them back on the right (YOUR right) path? 

First of all, having raised my kids up, I honestly can speak from experience.  My children knew right from wrong, and if they chose to do wrong, they had to face the consequences.  I didn't allow anyone to correct my kids other than a verbal warning that they were out of line.  I handled disclipine and administration of correction. Secondly, i cannot trust that everyone out there is going to "put them on the right path" my path, as most folks don't agree with my path.  But my path was effective and did serve to produce 2 marines and 1 army and a fine young mechanic.
can't complain there.   I am of the old school that if you are a obnoxious brat, then when you get home daddy will take you to the woodshed! 

Now IF their lives were in danger, or their futures were in danger, then thats a different matter.   As my friend will tell ya, Her kids have caused more near heart attacks than I care to remember .

And you're also saying that if someone else's kid was cussing or acting in total disregard of any manners or self control, you wouldn't step in and (gently) correct them... even at least to protect your own kids from learning those habits?

Not a chance. Thats not my responsibility nor my right.  What i would do is use the  event as a example of what not to be with mykids and let them know that if I EVER got a report that they were like that, a trip to the woodshed is in order.

(Or at least send the little brats home?) 

Well if their brats, then their not going to listen to me if i did try and send them home.  Better to just leave and let them face their consequences be it from their parents or the law coming after them to take them to their parents.

That acutally surprises me, coming from you (well from what little I know you on the forum).  I took you as a man who is helping teach and raise your friends' kids to be self-sufficient and self-employed by being a role model for them, as well as being there in times of saddness and joy.  To those kids, you ARE part of the village, admit it or not.

There is a difference between teaching life lessons to children when their parents are there or have approved of it than from strangers.  I don't raise her kids   I will if their life is in danger, or their about to really screw up badly creating a hazard to their health or welfare, step in and stop everything going on until their parents can get there. Thats it.

I have no problem with people saying hey boy your being a snot to them.  In fact, none of my boys were ever snots as they knew that if they did not say yes/no sir or yes/no ma'am, they would be in a world of trouble.  I remember when one of my boys run afoul of the law when he was a teen, and the officer that arrested him told me he was the politest boy he had the pleasure to have known and that he felt that he just screwed up unlike other kids he has arrested that he had the pleasure of slamming the door on them.  Its all a matter of how you train a child when their young. 

This village concept was pretty much started back when hillary was in the whitehouse, and this global village concept that was started is far too invasive into the family.  The strongest unit of our nation is the family not a global village, and individuality is the key to keeping a family strong. 

IF i had kids today in my care, i would post my phone number in the school, police station, grocery store, and pizza shack in town and tell everyone if you see one of my youngins acting improperly, call me and i 'll be there right then to take care of the problem.   

As for my last statement, you got me.  I went a little further than just 2 cents and threw in my nickle about how I usually feel about the Politics section.  Thus the winking face... which you were supposed to take as joking.  I guess I didn't re-read my "how to act in the Politics section" manual before posting anything close to a joke!  (Yet another joke, so LAUGH!)   

Ohhh LOL ok.    

[srkruzich]

Varmit, interestingly enough I took a whole course in that very thing. It was called Community Forces and had to do with influences on a child's development, including family, church, public helpers, TV, peers, etc. and where a teacher fit in to the whole picture. It was very interesting and useful. I disagree on the morals and manners a bit though. With some kids, the younger ones in particular, somethings have to be handled immediately and can't wait for a note or call to the parents. Or in some cases the parent simply denies that their child was the bully, thief or whatever. It can make the classroom dynamic very difficult.

I have a simple solution to the bully problem, teach the one being bullied how to kick the bullys behind.  Had a simple rule for my boys, if any of them faced bullies aka bigger kids that were undefeatable, the rest of them jumped on top of the kid until they got him off of their brother.  That stops bullies.  For the kiddos that don't have brothers, make friends with the kiddos that do have brothers! LOL.

I think our coach had a good concept back when i was in school. IF we got caught in a fight, he put the two who were fighting into the ring with boxing gloves .  It was settled there.  IF he had to deal with bullies, he put the bullies into the ring with boxers.  That settled the bully problem real fast.

[Diane Amberg]

Varmit, where, pray tell, did "little Johnny" hear and learn to use the word faggot?   This teacher right here would have said "that's not a nice word. We don't use that word in school." That would have been the end of it. No different than the cuss words that kids use. Chances are little Johnny doesn't know what the word "derogatory" means anyway. What else ya got?
    Steve, I've got to share one with you. One day when I recess duty, one of the first grade boys ( I was teaching third at the time) was attacked by one of the older special ed. boys. He was taller than I am and totally red rage out of control.  He had the boy on the ground by throat and was choking him. When I got to him, the little one was unconscious and turning gray. I grabbed the bigger boy by the back of his hair and hauled him backward off the little guy, because nothing else was working. I committed battery on that boy to save the life of the other. The principal was called out and the little guy, who finally woke up was taken to the hospital down the street. The other parent was called and when she came, I was called down to the office where she accused me of causing "brain damage" to her son. Needless to say, the principal reminded her that if it weren't for what I had done, the charge might have been be homicide. I do know the one family did charge the other, but I never knew how it turned out. The older boy was taken out of that school. Do think in that case a"verbal warning" would have been enough? How do you think the parents of the younger boy would have felt?

[srkruzich]

Varmit, where, pray tell, did "little Johnny" hear and learn to use the word faggot?   This teacher right here would have said "that's not a nice word. We don't use that word in school." That would have been the end of it. No different than the cuss words that kids use. Chances are little Johnny doesn't know what the word "derogatory" means anyway. What else ya got?
    Steve, I've got to share one with you. One day when I recess duty, one of the first grade boys ( I was teaching third at the time) was attacked by one of the older special ed. boys. He was taller than I am and totally red rage out of control.  He had the boy on the ground by throat and was choking him. When I got to him, the little one was unconscious and turning gray. I grabbed the bigger boy by the back of his hair and hauled him backward off the little guy, because nothing else was working. I committed battery on that boy to save the life of the other. The principal was called out and the little guy, who finally woke up was taken to the hospital down the street. The other parent was called and when she came, I was called down to the office where she accused me of causing "brain damage" to her son. Needless to say, the principal reminded her that if it weren't for what I had done, the charge might have been be homicide. I do know the one family did charge the other, but I never knew how it turned out. The older boy was taken out of that school. Do think in that case a"verbal warning" would have been enough? How do you think the parents of the younger boy would have felt?

Well i believe if y ou re-read my previous post, that i addressed that issue.  IF the life of a child is in danger, i would intervene.  I would expect any reasonable adult to do so, not only with children but also when other adults are in danger.

If it affects the life or future of a child, intervene.  By future if the child is making a grave error that could cause harm to someone or comit a act that would affect their life in such a way that it would harm them as far as future opportunities.

What were talking about here is common sense.  Leave the morals teaching to the parents.  Its their job, not the villages job.  Granted a little bit of morals training for those like the one you had to knock the fool out of would go a long way to solving problems. But do you think you could accept the way i teach morals?    I still believe a good boxing of the ears works wonders in keeping kids on the straight n narrow.

[Diane Amberg]

Steve, I was just sharing a personal story with you, I already knew what I expected you would say. No, I'm not for whacking kids around. BUT, I certainly do understand the temptation. I always figured if I could handle 30 and not hit 'em, surely parents could handle their 2,3,or 4.

[Varmit]

Varmit, where, pray tell, did "little Johnny" hear and learn to use the word faggot?   This teacher right here would have said "that's not a nice word. We don't use that word in school." That would have been the end of it. No different than the cuss words that kids use. Chances are little Johnny doesn't know what the word "derogatory" means anyway. What else ya got?

Diane, it doesn't matter where the kid learned the word, maybe from his parents, maybe from music or tv, maybe from a teacher.  As for a child knowing the meaning of the word "derogatory"... you as a teacher, should know to never underestimate the intelligence of a child.

Besides that, you completely missed the point of my last post. 

As for the special ed "red rage" boy.  What was he doing interacting with other children?  Why wasn't he under supervision BEFORE the attack happened? 

As for handling 30 kids and all that, did it ever occur to you that the behavior of those children was influenced heavily by them knowing that if they get to far out of line and the teacher noitified their parents, then those childrens backside would get tanned when they got home?

[srkruzich]

Steve, I was just sharing a personal story with you, I already knew what I expected you would say. No, I'm not for whacking kids around. BUT, I certainly do understand the temptation. I always figured if I could handle 30 and not hit 'em, surely parents could handle their 2,3,or 4.

ages 1 -7 are the  years that will form the rest of the years of a child.  IF you do not get them in line by then, your life as a parent of a teenager will be hell. 
As far as disclipine, i reserve corporal punishment for acts of defiance, and rebellion.  Those traits show up around 1 year old.  So if you tell your child no, and they keep on grabbing this that or the other a good patt on the but of a 1 year old will send em scooting and finding something else to do. 
2-4 are the years they first exercise their independence, and test their limits.  When you have a youngin that refuses to obey then a little warming of the pants brings them into line. It softens their will and brings their spirit back into line of being maleable and trainable.  There is a reason we cry when our feelings are hurt or we experience a spanking.  It softens our will and heart and we are brought to a point where we will listen.

Sure you can make them sit in a corner til  hell freezes over, or banish them to the room, but your not teaching anything. If you don't get past the anger and rebellion, your just reinforcing it.  You break through those two things, then your teaching. 

[Diane Amberg]

Steve, there is nothing new about childhood development that you can tell me. You are really preaching to the choir! Yes, corporal punishment MIGHT work with some kids but to me it's the easy way out. Telling the child "no" and then distracting them with something else also works. with the toddler age.  Little kids are very much in the moment. Yes, at school many kids are well disciplined and that came from the parents choice of home environment. It didn't mean they all hit their kids to achieve that. Then there were the parents who who were weaker in their parenting skills. We have all talked about them before. Some kids do transfer how they were treated at home to school. Some of the kids who were whacked often at home, were the ones who fought fast and often at school. Others develop a separate school personality from their home personality and are totally different in the two environments. I remember one boy well. He wasn't in my room but I saw him often. His father was a "take no prisoners"parent and beat the boy so badly and so often when he was little that he turned into a perfect child at home. He was scared to death. The mother was a meek little mouse who I always suspected was abused at home too. But, the minute he got on the bus, he changed into hell on wheels. He pushed and shoved his way to school and caused trouble all day long for his teachers, the cafeteria staff, just anybody. The principal spent more time dealing with him than anybody else. The father never believed his "perfect " son would act that way at school. Everybody must have been picking on him. He finally lost his bus privileges all together.  Right after school was out in 5th grade, he went down the street to an empty lot and tried to start a field fire, except he threw gasoline on it and it flashed back and set him on fire. He did survive, but spent many months in the hospital, had skin grafts on his legs and had terrible permanent scars.

Steve, you apparently used your discipline well for you, but we don't all want or need that style. If that works so well then teachers should be allowed to hit, after all, then you're teaching. Sorry, to me kids aren't horses to be broken. That's aversion therapy. Eliminating privileges is enough for me, most of the time.

[pamsback]

Sorry, to me kids aren't horses to be broken.

Ha I was thinkin along these lines readin earlier......but horses are just like people...you can BREAK them and they will never really be worth a s(*& for anything...oh they'll do what they are told but that's about it and they are gonna resent the hell out of you...or you can "gentle" and train them with kindness and positive reinforcement and have somethin to be proud of when you get done and they will go with you into hell if need be.

Don't even jump on me about spare the rod spoil the child yall I KNOW what I'm talkin about.......