President Obama's Speech to School Children

[Diane Amberg]

I wish everybody would treat horses that well. I think Narvous does. But I think he may be an exception.

[Tobina+1]

Maybe the term "it takes a village to raise a child" was a sound-byte during some Presidency, but it's not a new concept at all.
Steve; My point was that everyone who touches a child's life in a positive way is part of that "village".  No, you are not raising your friend's kids, but the fact that you're there helping them through tough times and celebrating their joys makes you part of that village!  You should be proud to admit it!  No, you may not actually discipline them or force your own morals on them, but how you act, speak, treat those kids is just as important.  I'm not letting you get away with arguing this point!  I remember when you posted the sad news about their baby, and all the posts after that about how much you were helping the family out.  Be proud that you are such a strong pillar for them and their kids!  

As for the argument that other people posted about this same village concept... that's why I live in a small town and get to know people.  I would be saddened to learn that if my kids were acting out or misbehaving and no one spoke out to them about it.  No, I don't expect you to force your morals (or your hand) on them, but kids will be kids and will try and get away with things when parents aren't looking.  When I was a kid, the townspeople and friends did this for my parents... even if it was to just call them and let them know what they saw happening up-town.  In my opinion, that's what's wrong with the big cities today; no one cares about anyone except themselves and are afraid of getting in trouble (or sued) for helping or correcting a child.  No, I don't believe teachers have the responsibility to raise my kids, either, but since they'll be spending 7 hours a day with them, I would appreciate if they did expect my children to follow the rules and have manners... and discipline them if they act out!  And I will back those teachers 100%, even if I only agree with them 90%.  Again, back to respecting authority.  

Everyone complains these days that kids have no respect... we've discussed this many times on the Forum... not respecting the flag, not respecting adults, not respecting their country.  Many of you flat out said you'd grab the hat off a young man's head if he still had his hat on during the Anthem.  If that were my son, I'd tell you "thank you" for helping teach my child the respect of the flag.  Maybe that's just me... because that's the way I was raised... and the way I plan to raise my children, too.  I do not want to contribute to the moral downslide of this country and the lack of manners that seem to be taken for granted.  I refuse to sit back and just accept it!  But as a parent, I won't be able to be everywhere all the time...I need a "village".  I'm asking you to be my "village".

[pamsback]

  Oh MOST people do Diane, you just hear more about the ones who don't I wasn't just talkin about horses tho.
And I ain't gonna say I never spanked my boys butts when I was a young parent, but it don't take long to find out it REALLY doesn't work. By the time Ashley came along I had enough experience to know better.

Any kid worth their salt is gonna TRY things that aren't "right" and get into trouble...but if you raise em right with the basics they aren't gonna STAY on the wrong side....bout one little di-do and they figure out it ain't as cool as they thought it was gonna be and havin to pay for their mistakes themselves the FIRST time generally shows em it ain't all that profitable either LOL

Tobina I was typin at the same time you were and you said it..........GOOD job.

[srkruzich]

Steve, you apparently used your discipline well for you, but we don't all want or need that style. If that works so well then teachers should be allowed to hit, after all, then you're teaching. Sorry, to me kids aren't horses to be broken. That's aversion therapy. Eliminating privileges is enough for me, most of the time.

And that is my point.  You don't like my style and i don't like everyone elses style so morals teaching and disclipine is not a village job. 

I must make a note on your story, I have never advocated beating a child.  Correction in the form of a spanking is not beating on a child.  And again, i said that I reserve corporal punishment for defiance and rebellion.  IF you use distraction and don't address the two behaviors, you won't get it under control. And if you don't get those two behaviors under control before their 7, you won't get them under control after age 7.

Again using spanking is not beating a child.    its also not adversion therapy.  When you administer a spanking, your goal is not to beat but to get past the anger, and the rebellion and bring forth a contrite heart.

When you get there, you have set a learning mode that will be reinforced with the fact that you love them and show them you love them, but don't love the behavior.   When their young they understand its not good to get spanked, but when their older, they will understand why they were spanked.

[Diane Amberg]

We won't agree on this, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Unfortunately "spanking " is a subjective word. One man's beating could be an other's spanking. Spanking is indeed a form of aversion therapy. You are hoping the child will stop the behavior to avoid being spanked again. Time outs and other alternatives do the same thing but without the physical punishment. How do you think preschool and day care teachers handle the little ones? They don't hit and they manage behavior modification very well. That's where a lot of the group dynamics and sharing and manners and such start. It re enforces what the teacher hopes has been begun at home. Very little ones are naturally very self centered, It's a perfectly normal inborn survival skill. But as they get older they have to be taught to get along with others and that there are rules that apply to everyone. Kids do want and understand rules and limits. That's why they tattle on each other. ( help! my k key just blew up!) I just don't think hitting (spanking) a child to make them stop hitting their brother makes any sense at all. Just an example.

[Tobina+1]

Here's my opinion again...
I do agree with Steve on this one; spanking should be left up to the parents ONLY; this is not a "village" activity.  And I also agree with Diane; spanking should be done at the parents' discretion and their own moral beliefs.  You can argue morals on here all day and night (and some of you do), but each person has their own opinion of what "morals" are and how to enforce them with children... you're not going to change someone else's opinion.

But again, discipline and moral teachings are not the ONLY responsibility of the "village".  Like I've tried so hard to compliment Steve on; supporting children, teaching them things they can't learn in school, giving them advice, reinforcing their parents' manners, and showing them respect is all part of helping to raise children, even if you don't realize it (or want to admit it... COME ON  STEVE, just say it... "Thanks, and you're right!"    )   

Anyway, we've veered well off the path of the original post (big surprise).   

[Diane Amberg]

That's OK Tobina, I think the original thread has run it's natural course and is finished.

[sixdogsmom]

This was a column from a conservative writer that was on Arcamax Politics this morning. I thought it interesting.

A Perfect Storm of Idiocy
Joe Conason
The wild furor over President Obama's speech to the nation's schoolchildren raises many questions, but there is only one that really matters. How did America surrender its political discourse -- not to mention the news cycle -- to the most unreasonable and unstable elements of the far right?

Not so many years ago, nobody would have imagined that a bland presidential address to young students, urging them to remain in school, study hard and nurture their aspirations for success, could engender a raging national controversy. Nobody would have believed that such an ordinary event could excite suspicions among a significant part of the population that the chief executive is "indoctrinating" their children into a "socialist ideology," or that the fate of the republic depended on parents keeping their innocents away from the classrooms, lest they hear his words. And nobody would have believed that the resulting wave of paranoia, supercharged by talk radio and cable television, could actually grip the attention of the public when real issues demand action.

When the nation's first African-American president proposes to urge children, and in particular those children who regard him as a role model, to behave wisely and avoid self-destructive behavior, liberals and conservatives alike ought to be expected to applaud him. Indeed, conservatives especially should be clapping loudly, since they have so often bemoaned the cultural barriers to advancement faced by poor and minority students.

So why have the idols of the right, notably Glenn Beck of Fox News Channel, instead seized this moment to stir anger and fear among Republican parents by claiming that the president intends harm to their kids? Why did many Republican leaders, notably the party chairman of Florida, echo the craziness? (And why would any parent take advice from Beck, a college dropout and recovering alcoholic?)

While many Obama critics advertise themselves as "libertarians" who distrust any message from Big Brother in Washington, that healthy skepticism cannot be the reason for the current outcry -- because two of the past three Republican presidents spoke directly to the nation's schoolchildren without provoking any significant reaction at all.

In the fall of 1991, President George Herbert Walker Bush delivered a speech in a classroom that was broadcast live nationwide by the Pubic Broadcasting System, Mutual Broadcasting and NBC Radio Network. The blanket media coverage was arranged by the Education Department (which gave rise to a few grumpy remarks by Democrats in Congress that were duly noted but mostly ignored by the press).

"Thanks for allowing me to visit your classroom to talk to you and all these students," he said politely to the teacher who was hosting him, "and millions more in classrooms all across the country." He went on to tell his audience: "Make your teachers work hard. Tell them you want a first-class education. Tell them that you're here to learn. Block out the kids who think it's not cool to be smart. I can't understand for the life of me what's so great about being stupid."

His predecessor, Ronald Reagan, addressed students directly on at least two occasions -- once in a broadcast speech in 1988 and once in a session with high-school students at the White House in 1986. Both times, the Gipper seized the chance to promote his own policies, with particular attention to cutting taxes and his "vision of economic freedom." In fact, Reagan's remarks were entirely political, if not partisan. He did precisely what the right has wrongly attacked Obama for doing -- but that was a message that conservatives like to hear, so they didn't object to the "indoctrination" of students at the public's expense.

The irony of this tempest of idiocy is that the same blowhards who constantly slander and slur President Obama were telling us, not too long ago, that criticizing the commander in chief during wartime was tantamount to treason. But of course, they are patriots of political convenience -- with no allegiance to anything except their own power and their extreme ideology.

========

Joe Conason writes for the New York Observer

[srkruzich]

the distrust of the American public was well earned by the last 3 administrations including this one.
Why should the American public trust government when our forefathers countless number of times warned against trusting government and advised us to always be vigilant in keeping government restrained.

[sixdogsmom]

I would be interested to know how many of you that have children in school, preview their textbooks? Or did you when you had children in school? If so, did you prepare responses to anything you did not agree with? Do you preview their Weekly Reader? You know, the little newspaper they get in class once a week. (They still do don't they?). How many read it when they were in school?