President Obama's Speech to School Children

[pamsback]

 Also Ks....I'm glad yall get along and have the same ideas. Good for you. Please DO tell your fella what I said because I was SAYIN it to him.

[Diane Amberg]

 M and M, it has never mattered to me how many, if any, kids you all have, so why should it matter to you?  We hadn't been talking about anything that the number of kids mattered.  I'm interested of course, like I am about lots of things, but I won't pry into it.
   Varmit, do you really think it's fair to call us all immoral?  People shouldn't all be labeled the same way.  Just because there are a few ol' Biddies in the Midwest certainly doesn't mean that everyone there is nosey and judgemental.  All big cities, including the Midwestern ones, have their problem areas, and most average people try to stay away from them. I just don't understand how "bleeding heart east coasters" and "immoral east coasters" can have any intent except to be hurtful.  To what benefit? I only started this thread because I was interested in how you all felt and once again it is slipping off topic in a negative direction.

[Varmit]

  However, I think that before they are exposed to that they need to know the basic difference between right and wrong, that there ARE moral absolutes, something that folks on BOTH coasts have forgotten. 

Diane, I didn't say that ALL people on the coasts were immoral.  Yet, you accuse me, three times, of doing so. Either you are not reading my posts or you didn't understand my response.  As for big cities, yes, they all have their problems.  However, on the coasts it seems these problems are amplified by a more liberal line of thinking.  I don't see midwestern states pushing things like more gun control laws, restricitions on the press and free speech, seperation of church and state, or "alternative lifestyles".

One more thing, why would you make a comment about your questions not getting answered, and then not answer M&M's question?

Pam, Hillbilly never said anything about how You raise your children.  I think you are both kinda sayin the same thing.  That is, you will raise your kids the way you see fit.  Neither of you want someone else telling you how to raise your kids.  As a parent, I can respect that, and in this case I think you are both right. 

[Diane Amberg]

Varmit, good, I'm glad you didn't mean everybody. As far as M an M's question, that is very personal and an extremely sad subject for me. Frankly, I do not want to talk about it. As mean spirited as a couple of people are on this forum, nothing good would come of it.

[Tobina+1]

This has been an interesting thread to read, and like most political discussions, strewn with personal attacks.  Regardless of that, I've decided I want to put my 2 cents in.
I agree and disagree with a lot of stuff on here.  I agree wholeheartedly that people should be responsible for raising their children and teaching them right vs. wrong.  God knows we've disabled the schools and teachers of the job long ago (heaven forbid a teacher try and teach a student manners or morals or discipline them for something they've done wrong; parents just come unglued and get sue-happy!).  In my opinion, this is unfortunate.  Yes, I want to teach my child manners and give them discipline, but when they're at school (or grandma's or neighbor's or aunt's), if they do wrong, they should also reinforce my discipline.  "It takes a village..." 
That also goes for teaching respect.  Respect for elders, respect for authority.  Yes, there may be people we don't agree with throughout our lives and even in our community, but it's important for children to respect them, regardless.  Another problem with things these days; parents portraying their opinions of people onto their children.  For example...  No, you may not like the sheriff or what he/she's done and how they handle their job, but if you speak badly about them in front of your children, your children won't respect them, either (and not of their own regard).  You children will then become one of "those kids" who have no respect for authority and back-talk the officer when they get pulled over for speeding... for which they certainly deserved to be pulled over.  You've just actually done what you say you don't want someone else to do... make your children take views/opinions without having the opportunity of forming them themselves.
As for the original question of this thread; letting your children watch the President's speech... I guess I would say why make such a big deal over it if you don't want your children to?  For kids, let's say, under 5th or 6th grade, they have such a short attention span that they probably didn't even catch most of the speech...
Susie:  "Guess what, Mom?  We got to hear the President of the USA talk at school today on TV!"
Mom:  "Really?  What did he have to say?"
Susie:  "Oh, I don't know.  Stay in school.  Listen to your teachers."
Mom:  "Well, that's good advice.  What else did he have to say?"
Susie:  "I can't remember.  But it was cool to be able to watch TV during school!"
Mom:  "Do you remember what his name is?"
Susie:  "Um... ahhh... The President?"
Mom:  "Hmmmm."
Susie:  "Can I go play now?"
Mom:  "Sure dear, have some milk first."
Susie:  "Guess who my best friend is now?".....


Or for that same age group who's parent DID make a big deal about it and caused a ruckus in front of their kids...
Susie:  "Did you know we get to watch the President on TV today at school?"
Her friend Johnny:  "Yeah, my dad told me the President is a dumb jerk and I don't have to watch it."
Susie:  "You don't want to watch TV during school?"
Johnny:  "Well... yeah, I want to watch TV, but my mom said the President isn't American."
Susie:  "What do you mean?  Isn't he President of the US?"
Johnny:  "I guess.  They were making such a big deal over it and arguing.  I just wanted to go to my room and play games, but they made us listen to them."
Susie:  "What did they say?"
Johnny:  "I don't remember.  They were talking about voting and stuff.  All I know is that when I grow up, I'm not going to vote for anyone to be President because it just causes you to argue about things.  Hey, let's go play ball."


I'm impressed with those of you who have older students and took the time to read the speech with them and visit about politics.  I think that is why Diane asked the question if you homeschooled your kids; most parents wouldn't take the time to do that.  She was probably especially impressed that you don't homeschool your kids, you work so long and hard outside the home, AND you still took the time and effort to go over the speech with them.  Kudos!  I think that's important no matter WHAT the subject is... politics, algebra, life lessons, advanced English, etc.

Someone brought up the question about making kids do reports and assign homework based on the speech.  I think that's a fantastic idea, especially for older high school kids.  I'm sure the teachers didn't expect everyone to AGREE with the message the President had to say... they probably would have encouraged them to interview their parents and other members of the community to compare and get contrasting views.  That would help the kids not learn to just take the President (or anyone, for that matter), for their words, but to really understand the issues at hand and to be able to form their own opinions and have LOGICAL, INFORMED discussions.  I'm sure that if this discussion on this thread were to be turned in as homework, we would FAIL miserably... name calling, personal attacks, getting off subject to prove a geographical point... probably NOT what most teachers would consider a LOGICAL, INFORMED discussion... but I digress...   

[Diane Amberg]

Thank you x 3!!! You nailed it exactly. I really appreciate what you just said. That is exactly what I meant and was trying to do. Consider yourself hugged. ( very carefully) 

[srkruzich]

discipline, but when they're at school (or grandma's or neighbor's or aunt's), if they do wrong, they should also reinforce my discipline.  "It takes a village..." 

A village?  I definately do not want the village raising any child of mine!  Its not their right or responsibility and i for sure don't want the responsibility of raising someone elses kid.

I'm sure that if this discussion on this thread were to be turned in as homework, we would FAIL miserably... name calling, personal attacks, getting off subject to prove a geographical point... probably NOT what most teachers would consider a LOGICAL, INFORMED discussion... but I digress...   

So this homework would require a right or wrong answer then.  Even though is message is heard differently by different people.
And chaining down the freedom to express ones beliefs, or views? 

[Tobina+1]

Steve;  really?  What you're saying is that if your child was doing something wrong and against your beliefs or morals (or manners), you wouldn't want someone to help correct your child's mistake and put them back on the right (YOUR right) path?  And you're also saying that if someone else's kid was cussing or acting in total disregard of any manners or self control, you wouldn't step in and (gently) correct them... even at least to protect your own kids from learning those habits?  (Or at least send the little brats home?)  That acutally surprises me, coming from you (well from what little I know you on the forum).  I took you as a man who is helping teach and raise your friends' kids to be self-sufficient and self-employed by being a role model for them, as well as being there in times of saddness and joy.  To those kids, you ARE part of the village, admit it or not.

As for my last statement, you got me.  I went a little further than just 2 cents and threw in my nickle about how I usually feel about the Politics section.  Thus the winking face... which you were supposed to take as joking.  I guess I didn't re-read my "how to act in the Politics section" manual before posting anything close to a joke!  (Yet another joke, so LAUGH!)   

[Varmit]

It doesn't take a village to raise a child.  But it does take more than just being a parent, it takes being a Mom and a Dad.

Tobina, the problem with the whole "village" concept is that not all adults can agree on what is "moral" behavior, or even on what good manners are.  For example, I know adults that will tell children to address them by their first name.  I was raised, and am raising my kids, to address their elders as Sir or Ma'am, Mr. or Mrs. 

Also, it is most certainly not the place of teachers (nowadays) to project their morals and values onto my children.  That is not their job, they are there to teach whatever subject it is they teach, nothing more.

[Diane Amberg]

Varmit, interestingly enough I took a whole course in that very thing. It was called Community Forces and had to do with influences on a child's development, including family, church, public helpers, TV, peers, etc. and where a teacher fit in to the whole picture. It was very interesting and useful. I disagree on the morals and manners a bit though. With some kids, the younger ones in particular, somethings have to be handled immediately and can't wait for a note or call to the parents. Or in some cases the parent simply denies that their child was the bully, thief or whatever. It can make the classroom dynamic very difficult.