Thumbs up for Arizona and Constitutional rights

[Diane Amberg]

Just out of curiosity, how much of the kazillion dollar bailout promises were ever really paid out, actual checks written, and how much has been paid back?

[dnalexander]

Just out of curiosity, how much of the kazillion dollar bailout promises were ever really paid out, actual checks written, and how much has been paid back?

Now Diane why did you have to bring that up? If people start investigating what happened with the bailout money, next thing ya' know we will have to find a new way to finance all the black budget items. There goes the Area 51 Christmas party.

David

[srkruzich]

i'm playing devils advocate, you keep saying xyz violates the constitution, what part does it violate?  What laws are there that says the budget has to be balanced?  With the exception of Clinton, no president has balanced the budget since Jackson.

And yes, I blame bush for the bailouts, because he's the one that implemented them.  In fact he did so in spite of congress and his own party.  They voted against the auto bailout, so he went around them and used the TARP money that was already approved for the banks.  Why do you insist on blaming the current administration for something Bush did?  Don't you think that's dishonest?

Not at all, Obama used his authority to reverse a bunch of things the last administration started, yet he hasn't used it to stop the automotive bailouts, the tarp funds. ect. he's  in fact pushing them through. 

[Varmit]

People no longer speak about issues with honesty and respect. 

With the exception of our founders, when have they (politicians) ever used honesty and respect?

  Things are being said about the current government that are downright lies.  I think that the right is going to an extreme and dark place that has the potential to cause major rifts in our society. 

What lies?  You want to talk about dark places and major rifts in our society, okay, lets look at the lefts push to eliminate our 2nd admendment, to limit the 1st admendment.  Lets talk about the appointment of communists, marxist, and special interest spokesmen, not to mention terrorists, to positions of power in our government that are answerable only to the president.  Lets look at how the president himself pushes a healthcare reform bill based on the idea that people can't afford to pay for healtcare, yet he wants to pass a Cap & Trade bill that will cause the price of electricty, as he puts it, to "skyrocket".

People like to compare Obama to hitler, but when you look at some of the actions and statements by the far right, they are very similar in nature to the national socialists of pre-ww2 germany.  Substitue muslims for jews and there you have it.  I think McCain, Powell, and other centrists recognize the trend and are trying to stop it.  We saw McCain in the campaign make efforts to try and tone down the rhetoric against Obama and the left.  Maybe it did contribute to his loss, but it wasn't the reason.  A few lines out of McCain aren't going to reverse the negative sentiment created by 8 years of Bush and friends.

Oh please, I don't see the "right" taking over the banks, auto industry, and private businesses.  It isn't the "right" that is calling for the creation of a Civil Defense Force, that is just as well funded, trained, and armed as the military.  Just for the record, pre-ww2 jews weren't hijacking planes, beheading people, beating their women, forcing their children to marry pedophiles, calling for the extermination anyone who didn't agree with them.  The negative sentiment was created when radical muslims thought it would be a good idea to crash a couple planes into the WTC, Pentagon, and kill thousands.  No one on the Right is calling for the extermination of all muslims, only those that continue to war against us.

[Teresa]

Well Billy........you hit it head on...........

I'll give you this~~ plus 10

[Diane Amberg]

I just have to ask this, and I'll probably get slammed for it, but Steve you brought up the subject of " Civil Defense Force"  which makes me think of the interment camps or whatever they were called. I have yet to see any of that written in main stream or moderate media. I did find it some time ago in one or two conservative pieces, which seem to quote each other, but nowhere else. The only thing I could find that was even close was one piece on preparing some places for hurricane victims if a Katrina ever happened again. What has become of all that? Another question....Why WERE pre WWII Jews so terribly discriminated against? One more. What is happening now to step on your 2nd amendment, except for the same few public folks talking to stir the pot? Is there a House or Senate bill that I don't know about?

[srkruzich]

I just have to ask this, and I'll probably get slammed for it, but Steve you brought up the subject of " Civil Defense Force"  which makes me think of the interment camps or whatever they were called.

I don't remember saying anything about a civil defense force.   I think one of the other fellas talked about obamas campaign goal of creating a civilian military equal to that of our national military.  On that i am ABSOLUTELY against that kind of power that can be used against our civilians.  IF he charters a force like that he can bypass the constitutional law that prevents miltary from being brought against the cilvilians because it would not be a official national military. It would equate to the WW2 germanies SS

Why WERE pre WWII Jews so terribly discriminated against?

Uhmm discriminated?  I think that what happened is that the jews are a people that take care of their own.  They do business with other jews and that in itself makes the community profitable.  I think that germany was going downhill in spending and hyperinflation not ulike what will happen here if we don't get obama under control with this spending, and the germans h ad to have a scape goat so they chose the jews.  I personally believe that if hitler had of exterminated the jews, he would have started on christians.  Hitler was no christian. He was an occultist and delved into black arts.

One more. What is happening now to step on your 2nd amendment, except for the same few public folks talking to stir the pot? Is there a House or Senate bill that I don't know about?

Lets see, the attempt to serialize ammunition and requiring us to turn in all unserialized ammunition that we might have is a start.  THen you have Holder who is hell bent on registration. Registration is how hitler disarmed germany and came to power.   THE ONLY reason why this government doesn't usurp its authority is because they know that they would have a war and they don't know who has guns and how many are out there.   Now every year we have to go through an attempt at our second amendment being assaulted by some bill or another.  THis is getting rather old and tiresome. 

The simple fact is that there is no valid reason to restrict gun ownership.  The criminals don't give a rats ass about laws, and will always have guns no matter what.  So why all the restrictions, legislation to register, or background checks ect.  Theres no criminal that is going to go buy a gun from a pawn shop or gun shop and go through background checks. They are criminals and dont' want exposure. SO they go steal, buy blackmarket, guns and commit crimes. THe only deterrent to crime is the law abiding citizen that is carrying

[redcliffsw]

More On Internment Camps
by Chuck Baldwin -  August 28, 2009

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090828.html

[Diane Amberg]

Sorry Steve, wrong person this time, it was Billy. One of you brought it up the first time many months ago and I wondered what had happened since then. I haven't seen anything since then and no sign of anything around here and I'm in a position to know. Red, I read Chuck Baldwin, and most all of that whole page of listed articles. I know you'll disagree, but he and a few others like him are creating their own herd of "sheeple" on the other side of the fence, IMHO. Steve, I didn't know about the ammunition registration business and in spite of some calling me a liar over it I don't think gun control per say works and  I know every old saw there is about what gun control does. But it isn't just about criminals. I recently had a discussion on a local forum about getting kids ready to go back to school and refreshing their kids about age appropriate actions involving fire safety ,track safety and gun safety. Some of the bad actors in our county will just toss guns out the window and run if they think the cops are near. Parents need to be sure their kids know what they want the kids to do if they happen to fine one. For the little ones, its don't touch and tell a grownup.   We have a lot of Suburban people here who want nothing to do with guns, are totally for gun control and don't even want their kids to know anything about guns. To me that's dangerous too. Those are the kids who accidentally shoot each other because they don't know ANYTHING about guns. Yes, I'm talking again, I'll go away now since some of you hate me so much.

[flintauqua]

Referring to red's post.

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Chuck Baldwin will find the absolute worse possible explanation for anything that is done by the federal government.  Every assumption he has made, and is accepted as gospel by all of his far-right and/or border-line anarchist believers, can be refuted, and most has already been refuted on this forum in previous threads.  

I could do a "billy" and go line but line, but I really am tired of fighting the same thing over and over.

But, that's just my opinion.  An opinion held by a majority of America.  The majority of America that you far-rightists and/or strict libertarians continue to badger and ridicule because we won't blindly believe the likes of Chuck Baldwin, Al Benson Jr., and Donnie Kennedy and his brother.

And now, on top of everything else that gets thrown at us, we have to defend our positions on religion too?  Give me an eF'in break.

We, the center of this great Nation, are not your polar opposites, and thusly not your enemy.  If the far-right and strict libertarians would accept that, and work with us, maybe we could do something about the extreme-leftists and those who want totalitarianism.

Instead, just keep alienating us by calling us un-christian, and saying we are not "True Americans."  See how far that gets you in 2010 and 2012.

From the center,

Charles