The Constitution.........

[redcliffsw]

I do not agree that the Constitution is a living document to accomodate
the immoral times.

Queer marriage and abortion are states' issues, not Fed.  If so-called conservatives
push for Fed laws, real conservatives will not go that far even though real conservatives
oppose queer marriage and abortion.

Regarding womens' suffrage, a selling point for that amendment was that women
were smarter than black men. 

[pamsback]

Regarding womens' suffrage, a selling point for that amendment was that women
were smarter than black men. 

Which is just one more reason I for one do NOT want to go back to that time and the ridiculous opinions of then. Unequal rights for women never should have been the "way things are" to start with.

Queer marriage and abortion are states' issues,

These are examples of things that should not be Constitutional issues

I do not agree that the Constitution is a living document to accomodate
the immoral times.

I'm not being rude here but do you realize how wore out the habit of sayin how immoral the times are is as a reason for anything? People have been bitchin about "how immoral the times are" since about 10 minutes after we started HAVIN times. That's a whole other discussion tho so carry on..............

Try this one.
    "The Declaration of Independence was simply freedom from British domination. The rights to life, liberty and the pursuitof happiness pertained only to white males in the dominate class of American society. It is quite fortunate that our Constitution provides mechanisms permitting the United States to evolve toward a "more perfect union". The judiciary interprets the Constitution and the legislative branch can change it. It is only through these amendment and legislative processes that the slaves were ultimately freed, women were finally granted the right to vote and people with disabilities are finally starting to have a real chance at participating as full American citizens. We can credit Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington and the rest of the Founding Fathers for demonstrating the foresight necessary to establish a nation with underlying principles that allow it to evolve away from dominance by one small class of men and toward full inclusion for all its citizens.
   written by Darrell Shandrow 

Good one Diane

[Varmit]

Who gets to decide what morality is anyway? By today's standards the founding fathers were terrible!

I guess that depends on whose standards your applying?  Frankly, with the amount of flaunted sexuality, drug use and glorifaction, I am pretty sure the Founders would have felt the same way about us.  True, they may have had brothels, but I seriously doubt they would have taught their 13 year old sons and daughters how to put on a condom.

[pamsback]

Who gets to decide what morality is anyway? By today's standards the founding fathers were terrible!

I guess that depends on whose standards your applying?  Frankly, with the amount of flaunted sexuality, drug use and glorifaction, I am pretty sure the Founders would have felt the same way about us.  True, they may have had brothels, but I seriously doubt they would have taught their 13 year old sons and daughters how to put on a condom.

If AIDS had been around they would. Besides back then most of those thirteen year olds were getting married.

[Varmit]

more like 15 or 16 yr. old getting married.  In those times premartial sex was scorned, as it should be.

[pamsback]

 depends where you lived and your circumstances.

  yeah........... premarital sex NEVER happened till the 60's  where you been Antarctica? whatthehellever

you mean scorned so that kids who give in to natural urges hide it and end up with diseases, live in shame because they "are doing BAD things" , hide pregnancies till they risk their and their babies health because they don't want mom and dad to think they are "bad people"? Give me a break. It should be talked about and consequences discussed so kids are aware its a natural urge and NOT wrong just too early.

Thats all I got to say about that.

[Varmit]

Pam, I never said it didn't happen, I said it was scorned.  Children need to be taught self control.  They need to be taught that premartial sex is WRONG, no matter how natural the urge. 

[pamsback]

  Hence the talking and communicating...........without the spectre of shame attached.

[Varmit]

I guess we just have to agree to disagree.  I feel that if children engage in prematrial sex or any other activity that they know is wrong simply because they got the "urge to merge" then they should feel ashamed.  They have dishonored themselves and their parents.

[pamsback]

  And I don't. I taught my kids to accept consequences not be ashamed. Having SEX does not dishonor your family and I reject any such thought.