American values

[dnalexander]

David, you should note that slavery was legal even though you say
it is wrong.  Back then, the income tax was never legal until about fifty (50) years
years after the slaves were freed in the north, the sixteenth (16th) Amendment
was passed to take your earnings from your work and labor (to distribute it elsewhere).
Of course, it appears that your future earnings have been mortgaged to distribute even
more than you are paying in.  It's guys like Ted Kennedy who have taken credit for
"helping the poor" except it was with your money.

The USA had greater freedoms before the socialists began messing-up this
country and it's those greater freedoms that black folks deserve.

Red I was not writing a book. Slavery was indeed legal then. I  am aware when income taxes became legal. I also share what I would call my libertarian  beliefs with you, Steve and Billy. I appreciate when you guys voice your opinion because I feel it is important and not one that gets a lot of airplay. While I believe in what our founding fathers did and set up in the Constitution the greatest document on earth. I will not cowtow to dead kings now matter how much I revere them. For me they gave me freedom to decide what is right for me. I personally do not support abortion or the death penalty. That comes to me by an even higher authority than the founding fathers and the same one they used to define our inalienable rights.

David

[pamsback]

Billy I already had this debate.

Red, compromise is not a SOCIALIST agenda. It's what grown-ups do.

We had greater freedoms before political parties started USING them as currency. ALL political parties and all "special interests".

I have no use for the HARD right or the HARD left.

[dnalexander]

Pam do you think that the fact we are both centrists' comes from our age or the fact we have EK roots?  Flintaqua you said you were a centrist and you are on the younger end of the spectrum. These are my words not Pam or Charles I will let them respond if they wish to do so.,

David

[pamsback]

I've wondered about that myself David...it seems to be a slight pattern age wise........older people seem to fall hard one way or the other and a lot of the real young ones do too.

I have always had a rebellion against fundamental ANYthing....I've never been one to do somethin just because "that's the way we always did it" and growin up in the sticks which that neck of the woods IS even if you live in town lol is fertile ground for independant inclinations.

I am basically an independant centrist and that is because I believe power is a thing to be handled with kid gloves like the dynamite it is. Power is a force that can corrupt, discriminate, oppress and enslave and should NEVER be the sole property of any ONE side. If we learned ANYthing from our european ancestors it should have been THAT.

I believe there has to be balance...too far one way or the other and things get wonky and somebody gets screwed. Too far one way or the other breeds hate and discontent, opens the way for abuses and oppression.Too far one way or the other and a Force greater than us takes over and evens things out.

[pamsback]

Nowdays, there are many who want the USA to be like the other nations.
One can tell it just by reading this forum.

I'm real tired of all the "socialist" tags. That's bull*&^% left over from the "red commie" witch hunts. Not one person I've seen on here is what I would call a socialist. Some of us are more PROGRESSIVE and willing to change than some others of us but that is NOT a bad thing. SOME things DO need changin.

Like it or not we ALL pay income and about a zillion OTHER kinds of taxes. Like it or NOT the government gets to decide how to spend said taxes..alledgedly on things for the American people. If I have a choice between my tax dollars being spent to feed homeless people or a 1000 dollar a plate state dinner for fat cats..I'll choose homeless people every time. If I have a choice between my tax dollars buying healthcare for kids or old people or even THE people in general instead of 8 spankin new jets for the fat cats to fly off in I'm going to choose the medical care every time. Any number of a million OTHER choices between what to spend tax dollars on I'm goin to choose the ones who NEED it instead of the ones who have ACCESS to it every time. That doesn't make me a SOCIALIST...it makes me a rebel more than anything else I guess. I don't want to give the government any more money or power either ONE...they don't have brains enough to use what they already have WISELY.

I don't like your "status quo"......... the status quo sucks.

[flintauqua]

Pam do you think that the fact we are both centrists' comes from our age or the fact we have EK roots?  Flintaqua you said you were a centrist and you are on the younger end of the spectrum. These are my words not Pam or Charles I will let them respond if they wish to do so.,

David

Power corrupts.  Absolute power corrupts absolutly.  In my centrist opinion (and that's centrist as applied to: liberal/conservative, anarchy/totalitarianism, libertarian/authoritarian) the Republic of the United States works best when the checks and balances are in effect, ie when the House and Senate are not both controlled by the same party, or when the President is one party, and one or both houses of Congress are of the other.  It's when all three are controlled like they are know that scares me the most.  Why?


The total lack of COMPROMISE!

The Declaration of Independence was a compromise.  The Articles of Confederation was a compromise.  Nearly every sentence of every article of the Constitution was a compromise.  This country was not set up for any one faction or group to govern unrestricted, in fact the Founding Fathers tried their very best to protect this country from that very thing.

The problem I see occurring now (on the issues getting the most media attention from both sides) is that the party out of power is not trying to compromise, but rather trying to scare the living hell out of everyone and demonize everything the party in control is doing.  They really aren't coming up with legislation to offer as a viable alternative to what is getting passed, and are not reaching out to the other side of the aisle to make any headway, just slinging ever increasing amounts of mud.

The media doesn't report much about issues where compromise occurs the way it should, and legislation that is better than what either side origionally came up with gets passed, in a non-partyline vote.  An example is the recently passed Agricultural appropriations bill.  Each party in each house took their time in sub-committee and committee and hamered out a very good bill, probably one of the most fair and balanced appropriation bills in a long time.  And it passed on the floor of the Senate with a 3 to 1 margin with very few amendment battles to be turned into media circuses. 

That is the way Congress should work all the time IMH(C)O.

Charles

[dnalexander]

Pam and Charles. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. I thought we had similar views on some things. Charles I too prefer a split in party between the house, senate, and president. I don't trust either party and I certainly don't like it when a single party controls all three.


David

[Anmar]

Pam, this one's for you

[redcliffsw]

The Declaration of Independence was not a compromise with socialism or the monarchy.  We threw the Brithish out for a whole lot less than what the Fed's have become today.  We've "compromised" away many things that this country and its people used to stand. 

Why look to Washington DC ?  Because some of you all want a nanny too?

Pam offered this: "If I have a choice between my tax dollars being spent to feed homeless people or a 1000 dollar a plate state dinner for fat cats..I'll choose homeless people every time."  Well Pam, my choice is neither and I'll stand by that.  Many of us have been choosing the lesser of the two (2) evils for a long time and it's time we recognize that we ought to fully reject them both.

[pamsback]

Lo, Anmar....Monty Python was one of my favorites. Are you tryin to tell me the villagers are comin for me? Or that the "government" is fixin to throw me to them? LOL

I don't trust either party and I certainly don't like it when a single party controls all three.

I really believe that is the way MOST people think David...the far either side just hollers louder and whines more about not gettin what they want.

Well Pam, my choice is neither and I'll stand by that.  Many of us have been choosing the lesser of the two (2) evils for a long time and it's time we recognize that we ought to fully reject them both.

Well guess what Red, MY choice is the same. I am a realist though NOT a lesser of two evils chooser. I almost ALways vote for a third party candidate if there is a viable one and people tell me I'm just throwin my vote away....no I'm not I'm makin my voice heard even if nobody listens........The only thing that is going to make the government turn loose of ANY power is total revolution and I don't see that happening in the forseeable future so like it or NOT we gotta work with what we got to keep it from goin any further and I am enough of an IDEAList to think we should spend government money where it will do some good instead of just making the fat cats fatter. And I stand by THAT.