Can Obama's Healthcare Plan be akin to Hitler's Plan?

[Warph]

Okay... I turn on the boob tube and I see Barack Obama and his house of Liberal players out asking other liberals if they want more 'Free Benefits'..... or something others will pay for..... and I think, it's like asking a kindergarten class if they want ice cream and candy for lunch or vegetables and a salad.  The children (liberals) will be very excited and everything will be fine, until the sugar high is expended by running, screaming and yelling and then the low is experienced.

I can see it now.

"Free" Universal Heath Care will bring excitement for a period of time until reality sets in.
Costs will soar, taxes will be raised then rationing, curtailing of treatments and diagnostic tests will begin.  Discussions will begin about "life unworthy of life" and the high costs associated with that.  Babies and small children will be considered first.  Should Americans be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to save a baby that is born premature?  Should mere children receive treatments for diseases and birth defects that cost thousands?

Then discussions will begin about the elderly, "How much should be spent on someone who only has a few years to live, no matter what we do for them?"

Next will be discussions about those who are handicapped, "Do they really have a quality of life that helps society or are they a drain on the resources of society?"

Next will be discussions about those who are horribly damaged in automobile or other accidents, "what will they add to society after many thousands of dollars are spent to repair them?"

"Why should those who are terminally ill, drag society down as well, after all the money spent will only increase their life for a short period and they are already suffering anyway."

Sound familiar??  This was the thinking behind the NAZI Germany plan "Code named "Aktion T4".

This plan was instituted only 70 years ago by a Socialist Government called (National Socialist German Workers Party) or NAZI.

Could Obama be going the way of Aktion T4?  We have democrats in the House stirring up a kettle of disgusting gruel they're calling universal health care as you read this.   Leave it to liberals to promote a program which will cost trillions of tax dollars and which has already proven to be a disaster in England, Cuba and Canada.  And please don't believe for a second that when he needs serious medical attention, Michael Moore seeks it in any of those three countries.  If you think otherwise, you are probably the sort of person who believes that Sen. Charles Schumer will wait patiently to have his number called if he ever needs to be treated for that life-threatening disease he has or that Rep. Barney Frank will sit twiddling his thumbs and picking his nails in some crowded clinic if he ever decides to have his over-active salivary gland removed.  And in spite of his advanced age, Sen. Robert Byrd isn't going to be told that he's too old to have that overdue brain transplant operation. 

When a massive spending bill strong-armed by the President can only squeak through in the House, one has reason to hope that the members of the Senate will see the writing on the wall.  At least you can hope that those members who are up for re-election in 2010 will see it.

We keep hearing about people who don't have medical insurance.  What we don't hear is how many of those people are in the U.S. illegally or how many people simply prefer spending their discretionary income on booze, drugs, porn and electronic toys.  I don't know a lot of young people who budget for health care.  What truly confounds me is the blind faith that liberals have in their government, at least during those years when left-wingers are running the show in Washington.  What, I constantly ask myself, is wrong with these people that they're dying to have the feds in charge of their health care?  After all, these are the same bureaucratic dunderheads who mailed out at least 10,000 of those $250 stimulus checks to dead people.  Just in case you were wondering, it didn't stimulate even one of them back to life.  However, maybe it wasn't a $2.5 million goof, after all.  I dunno, maybe it was simply Obama's way of rewarding 10,000 of Chicago's most loyal voters for past services to the party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/h-euthanasia.htm 

[jerry wagner]

It has been a success in Canada since the 1960's when it was first established. Get your facts straight. Here in America people who are uninsured can't afford the cost of it being taken out of their paycheck and still pay for food and rent. They chose a home over healthcare. It sucks, but the price keeps going up and wages don't. Also, do not go off on waiting for your number to be called. Here in Kansas my sister had to wait 3 months for a spot to get her friggin' tonsils out! My daughter had to wait 3 months to see a pulmonologist. Don't talk to me about waiting.
Sarah

[srkruzich]

It has been a success in Canada since the 1960's when it was first established. Get your facts straight. Here in America people who are uninsured can't afford the cost of it being taken out of their paycheck and still pay for food and rent. They chose a home over healthcare. It sucks, but the price keeps going up and wages don't. Also, do not go off on waiting for your number to be called. Here in Kansas my sister had to wait 3 months for a spot to get her friggin' tonsils out! My daughter had to wait 3 months to see a pulmonologist. Don't talk to me about waiting.
Sarah

Canada has it right???  ROTFL  I have many friends up in canada and they cuss the system every day. THey have to come here to the US to get treatment cause  the waiting list is over 18 months.  If your a heart patient, its your death warrant.  Need a MRI, your screwed cause you ain't going to get it anytime soon.   

IF your daughter had to wait 3 months then I would have taken her to a different doctor.  I don't have to wait for anything i need with the system as it is now.  Though tonsilectomies are not immediate need either.   

[jerry wagner]

It has been a success in Canada since the 1960's when it was first established. Get your facts straight. Here in America people who are uninsured can't afford the cost of it being taken out of their paycheck and still pay for food and rent. They chose a home over healthcare. It sucks, but the price keeps going up and wages don't. Also, do not go off on waiting for your number to be called. Here in Kansas my sister had to wait 3 months for a spot to get her friggin' tonsils out! My daughter had to wait 3 months to see a pulmonologist. Don't talk to me about waiting.
Sarah

Canada has it right???  ROTFL  I have many friends up in canada and they cuss the system every day. THey have to come here to the US to get treatment cause  the waiting list is over 18 months.  If your a heart patient, its your death warrant.  Need a MRI, your screwed cause you ain't going to get it anytime soon.   

IF your daughter had to wait 3 months then I would have taken her to a different doctor.  I don't have to wait for anything i need with the system as it is now.  Though tonsilectomies are not immediate need either.   

ROTFL Laughing my ass off right now.  My father had a heart attack while we lived in Canada and survived..... in fact had quicker care than he had here.  To put it politely, if you do not live there, you have no knowledge of how the system works.  MRI's are rarely actually necessary, in fact most Physician association admit that the MRI is over used 3 times what is necessary.  Further to that, I have never had an 18 month wait for something.  But of course, I am not the expert on care like you.  There was no other pulmonologist in the state of KS that would accept our insurance and there is only one other one to begin with, so there is a wait time deal with it.  Tonsillectomies are urgent need if it is preventing you from swallowing.  There are horror stories to every system..... perhaps it is time to listen to more than just the poor examples.  BTW when my mother was a nurse @ the Ottawa General Hospital, hundreds of Americans came there for treatment (as well as CHEO next door (Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario)) because they had a better standard of care than in the US.  You are not going to convince me that you are correct, I HAVE lived in both situations.

[Varmit]

If the healthcare system in canada is such a success, why is there a push for the privatization of the system?  Why is there a lawsuit brought by 10,000 breast cancer patients against 12 different hospitals? 

You talk about people not being able to afford healthcare, well, as cold as it may sound, those people put themselves in that situtation.  We are all born on equal footing in this country, that is, we all have the oppurtunity to succeed.  Frankly, I don't want my taxes going up or the level of healthcare my family currently enjoys going down, which is exactly what is going to happen if we nationalize healthcare.

[jerry wagner]

If the healthcare system in canada is such a success, why is there a push for the privatization of the system?  Why is there a lawsuit brought by 10,000 breast cancer patients against 12 different hospitals? 

You talk about people not being able to afford healthcare, well, as cold as it may sound, those people put themselves in that situtation.  We are all born on equal footing in this country, that is, we all have the oppurtunity to succeed.  Frankly, I don't want my taxes going up or the level of healthcare my family currently enjoys going down, which is exactly what is going to happen if we nationalize healthcare.

There is no push for privatization.  Any political party that questions the validity of the Canadian healthcare system does not survive the election.  The Conservative Party of Canada recognized that after a few severe electoral defeats and now favor the current system with tweaks.  But by all means tell me how it was like in Canada.  How many lawsuits do you suppose are pending for breast cancer patients in the US?

[Varmit]

No push for privatization?  Really?  Then how do you explain why it is in Alberta, a conservative province, that pressure is indeed up for private health care?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705


As for breast cancer lawsuits in the U.S., I am not saying that there aren't any, but how many do you suppose are due to having to wait for treatment?

[jerry wagner]

No push for privatization?  Really?  Then how do you explain why it is in Alberta, a conservative province, that pressure is indeed up for private health care?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml?cmp=EM8705


As for breast cancer lawsuits in the U.S., I am not saying that there aren't any, but how many do you suppose are due to having to wait for treatment?

Good job, you picked a news article from an AMERICAN station written in 2005.  Also, almost every source in that article was a CONSERVATIVE, it would be a real leap to expect them to bash the system.  We could spend all day send article links back and forth and the simple fact is this: you don't live, you don't know how it works and you won't convince of your point of view.  I've lived there and understand the system and support it.

[Varmit]

You're right, jerry, I haven't lived in canada. Nor do I want to.  Yes, I picked an article written by conservatives, why?  Because they are right.   

However, this thread isn't about Canadas healtcare system, it is about Americas.  So, lets examine it shall we.  The figure that Pelosi and others like to throw around is 47 million.  They claim that there are 47 million americans without healthcare coverage and they say that this is the reason why we need to nationalize our healthcare.  When we examine that figure a little more closely we find that, according to the 2006 Census Bureau, that there are 46.6 million people without health insurance.  About 9.5 were not U.S. citizens.  Another 17 million had incomes over $50,000 a year and could purchase insurance if they choose to do so.  18 million were between the ages of 18 and 34, in good health and did need health insurance or chose not to purchase it.  Also, only 30% of the noneldery who lost their coverage in a given year remained unisured for more than twelve months.  Almost 50% regained thire health coverage within four months.

So, then lets do the math shall we...47-9.5-17-18= 2.5

Even if we factor in those who lost their coverage but got it back that brings the total to 3,250,000

So, we are going to nationalize our healthcare system in support of roughly 3 million people?  Whatever happened to our demorcratic system?  Thats right, the Socialists and Statists were put in charge.  Okay, then lets examine another gov't run healthcare system then.  Take Great Britian for example.  Their National Health Service has mandated that all patients admitted to a hospital be treated with four hours.  However, instead of sitting for hours in a hospital waiting room, thousands of patients are forced to wait in ambulances, this allows hospitals to use a loophole in delaying care. 

Waiting times are a complete disaster.  Between one and two years for hip and knee replacement.  Across specialties, 1 in 7 waits more than a year for treatment.  Children must travel to the U.S. for certain cancer treatments that are unavailable under Britians health system. 

But wait, it gets better, a recent survey in Britian shows that as many as one in three family and hospital doctors believes that eldery patients should not be given free treatment if it is unlikely to help them over the long term.  Half of the physicians believe that smokers should be denied bypass surgery and a quarter believe the obese should not be eligble for hip replacement surgery.

In short, you can keep your state run healthcare system.  Or if you prefer that over our current system, then by all means feel free to relocated to a country offering that type of care.  Whatever your decision may be, stop trying to force a Socialist, Statist, and Progressive agenda on me and my family. 

[Teresa]

By the way Jerry.... When do you move to Canada?