Pentagon Denies Flyover of Patriotic 'God and Country Rally'

[sixdogsmom]

Billy, I just read all three of the articles that you posted. None stated that the president had spoken at a mosque. All three talked about his touring those mosques. I believe that Laura Bush toured a mosque during her middle east visit in 2008. And churches are allowed to participate in the registration of voters. That was one of the issues that Martin Luther King participated in during the freedom marches of the 1960s.

[Anmar]

It appears that the good reverend Mahoney isn't quite telling the whole story about his organization.  In the article, he claims that his event doesn't endorse religion, and is designed to honor the heros in the military.  But you you look at his website, and read the little "about" section, it's all about spreading the word of Jesus, and it doesn't have one single word about the military.  Here's the link.

http://godandcountryfestival.com/the-mission-of-the-god-and-country-festival.html

Our nation has a separation of church and state.  Those of you who claim to be such ardent supporters of the constitution should know that the government can't give an endorsement of any particular religion.  This has nothing to do with the military and everything to do with honoring and abiding by the constitution and ideas of our founders.

Anmar... ponder this:  Why in the past 42 years has the Pentagon allowed the flyovers to happen but not this time... and don't quote that letter from DOD, as what we used to call those type of letters, Beetle Baily Memo's... or BB&M's?

My old outfit, the 366th TAC Wing at MT. Home has done some of these flyovers in the past so this gives me the right to question this DOD decision.   

Another thing for you to ponder:  Why in the hell do you think you have any say in this?

Listen here, How much of a hypocrit are you to sit there and claim to spout on about constitutional ideas, and the freedom to post your thoughts on these forums, then have the nerve to try and tell anyone that they have no say.  Ponder your own sense of self-righteousness. 

As with regards to the flyovers, the website doesn't say how many years they have been occuring, it just says "many years."  If any practice is not in accordance with this countries ideals, such as not promoting a particular religion, it doesn't matter if it's been in practice for 100 years, it's gonna end.

[kshillbillys]

Maybe there's not enough money to do flyovers for "everything" that people want flyovers for AFTER this administration used all that money scaring the sh*t out of NYC to take "pictures" of the low flying plane...and AFTER The Obamas went on their "little" $24,000+ DATE to New York City...and AFTER the wife and kids get to go on a sight seeing trip of the world while daddy's "working"...

And yes, I'm gonna change the subject, but what exactly is this little trip to Africa all about? Needed to take the youngins to their homeland and wanted to do it on the taxpayer's dime or what?

[Warph]

He has a say because he has the right of free speech.  If you don't like it, tough &&&&.  I don't like what you say almost 100% of the time, but I can't tell you you don't have say in something.

Wow.... good zinger, jerry.  Since you've been practicing your zings on poor redcliff and billy, you seem to be getting better at this...and I luv those big words you're throwing out there... tough &&&&, free speech, don't like.... really good stuff.  I got to hand it to you, you really put me in my place. 

Say, you wouldn't be from Kalamazoo would you, jerry?

[Warph]

Listen here, How much of a hypocrit are you to sit there and claim to spout on about constitutional ideas, and the freedom to post your thoughts on these forums, then have the nerve to try and tell anyone that they have no say.  Ponder your own sense of self-righteousness. 
As with regards to the flyovers, the website doesn't say how many years they have been occuring, it just says "many years."  If any practice is not in accordance with this countries ideals, such as not promoting a particular religion, it doesn't matter if it's been in practice for 100 years, it's gonna end.

Anmar, your right for once.  You should be able to say anything you want, whether you're right or wrong.  It must have been the 83 I shot yesterday morning that set me off.  Sorry.  I hate it when they over-water the greens.

Now, let me get serious for a few minutes.... The Department of Defense policy on community relations activities has not recently changed.  Longstanding policy on flyovers, and other community relations support, is found in DoD Directive 5410.18, "Public Affairs Community Relations Policy," dated Nov. 20, 2001. http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/541018p.pdf 

As with all DoD policy, the military services develop instructions and orders to guide their service-unique community relations efforts.  The individual services determine their ability to participate in requested aerial support activities (as well as other types of community relations activities) by reviewing and evaluating each request based on its own merits and circumstances.  During those reviews, service personnel authorized to make such decisions determine if the request complies with policy, if personnel and materiel resources are available to support the request, if mission requirements are impacted and if the activity is in the best interest of the service. 

I read through DOD 5410.18 and the only thing I saw regarding religious community events was in 4.2.3.5 which says: "Community relations support to events sponsored by organizations with a narrow membership base or interest, such as commercial enterprises, religious or sectarian organizations, ideological organizations, and political organizations and campaigns, may occasionally be considered to be in the common public interest when it is clear that the support primarily benefits the community at large, rather than the sponsoring organization."

And 4.2.9 which says: "Community relations activities shall not support, or appear to support, any event that provides a selective benefit to any individual, group, or organization, including any religious or sectarian organization, ideological movement, political campaign or organization, or commercial enterprise, to include a shopping mall or motion picture promotion."

Alright.... am I missing something?  This was not a group with a narrow membership base nor do I see how the event primarily benefits the sponsoring organization or provides a selective benefit to a religious organization.  Regardless, for the past 42 years, and even last 7 years under the current policy, this event was seen to be in the common public interest (unless the DOD was wrong these past 7 years) and not providing a selective benefit to a religious organization.  I don't believe the event has changed in nature, purpose, intent, or name by what has been explained to me by some of my TAC buddies at Mt. Home.  So while official DOD policy may not have changed, it is obvious that something has changed.  If the nature of the event and official DOD policy has not changed, is it not reasonable to assume that there must have been an unofficial policy change (possibly coming from the current Obama administration) that would lead to the denial of the flyover?  I would like to know how these off-the-wall decisions are made.  Is it an individual or a white house get-together in the oval office?  Perhaps TSgt Utley, who wrote the email (http://www.earnedmedia.org/God_and_Country_flyover.pdf) reply to the flyover request, needs more training in public relations?  I don't know.  If there were other reasons for denying the flyover, this TSgt Utley obviously messed up by adding the implied claim that the flyover was denied because of the event's religious nature.  If budget concerns did not allow for the flyover (which are almost always conducted in conjunction with a regular training mission) then it should have been stated simply and solely as such.  I think the best reply would have shown how this decision was reached and on what specific policies and directives it was based, thus eliminating any public fear of discrimination against Christianity.  My opinion, of course.  From a recruiting standpoint alone, I don't know why the military (after 42 years of flyovers) would want to miss out on a great opportunity to inspire the young men and women in attendance to one day serve their country, thus fulfilling the military's real objective for flyovers as community events, recruitment.  As a kid, seeing jets fly over head fast, low, and loud certainly contributed to my desire to serve my country in the Air Force.  Checkout the "Home" page, not the "About" page and look at the pictures:  http://godandcountryfestival.com/

Now if you don't mind, I think I'll.... go ponder abit.

[jerry wagner]

He has a say because he has the right of free speech.  If you don't like it, tough &&&&.  I don't like what you say almost 100% of the time, but I can't tell you you don't have say in something.

Wow.... good zinger, jerry.  Since you've been practicing your zings on poor redcliff and billy, you seem to be getting better at this...and I luv those big words you're throwing out there... tough &&&&, free speech, don't like.... really good stuff.  I got to hand it to you, you really put me in my place. 

Say, you wouldn't be from Kalamazoo would you, jerry?

I had decided to articulate my point in a language you could understand.

[Warph]

And "articulate" you did.  I appreciate that.... but jerry, you didn't say one way or the other if you were from Kalamazoo?