Why does the Left Hate Israel?

[Varmit]

Isreal can, and has been able to fend for itself.  They don't have 8 nations trying to destroy them, there are only 3 reasonable threats, syria, lebanon, and the palestinians, and the armed forces of these coutnries, even combined, are a big joke.

Flawed logic and poor facts.  Egypt also is a threat,  Why else would the Multinational Force and Observers have not one but two (one in Sharm El Sheik and another near Dehab) bases and several outposts set up to watch that Egypt does not take action, AGAIN, against Isreal, that brings the number to 4, Iran has openly declared that if given the chance they would wipe Isreal off the map, number now up to 5. 

[Anmar]

Egypt and Isreal are allies.... where have you been??

To get to Isreal, Iran would have to go through Iraq, which is occupied by the American army and through Jordan, another coutnry friendly to Israel.  If they wanted to get there by sea, they would again have to go through the American Navy, and then the Egyptian Navy.  To fly there, they would have to get through 2 superior air forces.  There is no direct threat to Isreal from Iran.

[Varmit]

If they are allies, why the need for the M.F.O. (made up of troops from not only the U.S. but also New Zealand, Columbia, Somoa, and Italy). 

There is no direct threat to Isreal from Iran.

With Iran seeking nuclear missile capabilities I think that a very real threat exists.  Iran wouldn't have to go anywhere, they could simply launch missiles into Isreal.  Oh, by the way, if Jordan is friendly to Isreal then why (according to an article on Al Jazeera jan. 5 2009), why is it reconsidering its ties with Isreal?  Why instead of supporting Isreal does jordan demand that Isreal accept a two state solution?

[Anmar]

The MFO is to watch the border with Gaza, not Isreal.  They are there to enforce trade restrictions with Gaza. 

As far as jordan goes, the majority of it's population are palestinian refugees.  The queen has palestinian heritage.  Therefore they are very sensitive to the plight of the palestinians, and when Isreal commits atrocities, the jordanians at least must attempt to show some disgust.  It's political, if the monarch doesn't appear sympathetic to the people, he may very well be overthrown.  The bottom line is that these two countries recieve a great deal of foreign aid from our government because of their friendly relationship with Isreal.  So much aid, that losing it would be devastating to their respective economies.

As far as the two state solution, whats wrong with suggesting that idea?  Even Isreal prefers the 2 state solution.  The alternatives are to continue occupation or to annex palestinian land, and with it the palestinians.  Believe me, thats the last thing ISreal wants, because in order to maintain their standard as a Jewish state, they would have to formally implement their already semi-aparthied system.  We all remember what happened to South Africa, right?

[Varmit]

Sorry, but the MFO is not to watch Gaza.  I know because I served there '98-'99.  I was stationed at south camp in sharm El sheik. 

[Anmar]

thats fine, the point is, egypt isn't a threat.  They barely have a military. and they have been in a treaty with Isreal for over 25 years now.

[Varmit]

http://www.jnewswire.com/article/2540

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1087976.html

These are just two articles that if you read between the lines, you'll find that Anti-Isreali feelings run pretty deep in egypt, no matter how much lip service is paid in the other direction.

[Anmar]

I have no doubt that people in egypt don't like Isreal.  But that has nothing to do with anything.  Take the following example.


After 9/11, a lot of americans had very negative feelings towards the Saudis, because many of the hijackers came from their coutnry.  Yet the Saudis are allied with the USA.  Now, does either country, Saudi or USA, have any fears of invasion or attack from the other?  no, because the have a treaty based on strategy and mutual gain.  The Saudis buy our debt, and we protect their oil fields.

The Egyptians and Isrealis have a similar agreement.  Unless there is some dramatic revolution in Egypt, they pose no real threat to Isreal.  You can't hurt someone just be disliking them.

[Catwoman]

You can't hurt someone just be disliking them.

Whew...Don't let the ankle biting set hear you say that!  That's how they maintain their "power" and "control" over those around them! lol

[Warph]

What a silly post.  Flawed logic abound.  Now i can see why you choose to copy articles and post them here instead of writing them yourself.

Good God almighty.... I go to Tucson a week for a little flying and horse wrangling with some buddies, come back and find that the little guy is at it again.  Oh well.... doesn't surprise me a bit.  Silly?  Flawed logic?  Hmmmm... not very diplomatic, sport.  It may be silly to you and that's your opinion, I guess... free speech and all.... tho' it looks like others seem to disagree with you on that count.  If you don't like what I post, don't read 'em.  Flawed logic?  No way.  Could it be that you think I'm bashing the arab states a little too much?  I am, you know. 
Also.... the reason I copy emails from buddies and articles and video's from various news outlets is because they get their point across better than I.  If you read the forum, sport, you will see that a lot of people do the same.  When I write something, I tend to get long winded at times... like now.... which I've been accused of, btw... besides, I really don't have the time and patients to doddle around the forum like I would want.  I like to get in and give my opinion on something, whether it is an email, article or something I have written, get out and go hit a golf ball.  Simple as that.   

Oh, yeah... I don't want to forget this.  I guess it's my turn to point out some very silly and flawed statements you've made on this thread:

thats fine, the point is, egypt isn't a threat. 

"Egypt isn't a threat???"   Are they a threat???  Of course they are!  What about the tunnels?  Arms being smuggled by the funding of Iran to Egypt to Gaza.  This is happening as we speak.  Do you actually think that Egypt loves Israel and would do it no harm?  Believe me, they would cut Israel's throat in a minute if they had a chance, treaty or no treaty.  They love our foreign aid but they still hate Israel's guts.  Look what they did to Egypt in '69.  Read this, Maggie gives you a breakdown on how the Tunnels work:
http://maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com/2009/01/how-gaza-tunnels-into-egypt-work.html

  They barely have a military.

Don't kid yourself, the Egyptian military is strong enough to form an acceptable defense against a potential Israeli invasion, but probably not strong enough to be considered viable to invade Israel.  They learned a hard lesson years ago. I doubt very much that they would want to try that again unless they have help from other arab nations but, they would if it was possible.  Besides, they have too many problems in their own backyard. 
They are ranked 11th in the world according to Wiki.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Egypt

Granted.... they probably couldn't be considered a world power, but it definately has by far the strongest military in Africa and the Middle East, outside of Israel, of course, thanks, in part, of the good ol' USA.   As far as their air force is concerned, they have about 220 F-16s and about 20 Dassault Mirage 2000s.  And while old fighters, they also have about 60 Mirage 5s, and 40 F-4s, which we and France provide parts for.  Also, they are the only arab country to have a couple of  reconnaissance spy satellites that are in use.  Question is, they may have all these planes but do they have the pilots?  Possibly.  I do know that a number of Egyptian pilots train here at Luke AFB each year on F-16's and they are damn good pilots according to our F-16 instructors. 
Egypt also has a heavy reliance on America for supplies and foreign aid of one to two billion dollars a year.  In war you also need ammunition and replacement parts and If Egypt went to war, no problemo, America and her allies would cut off all supplies and aid to them in a heartbeat.  American military aid to Egypt and Israel is divided such that Israel remains the strongest military through technology and funding, while Egypt has a significant enough military that there is not a desperate feeling of inability to defend themselves, and thus a mindset of military growth and aggression.  They also have an interest in regional stability and self-defense, being in a relatively restless part of the world.  However.... their economy pales in comparison to anything in the West, and procuring armaments would not be a matter of self-production but finding allies to purchase these armaments from, which would be close to nil... Russia maybe, which wouldn't surprise me a bit.Their military, like most arab countries, are geared more towards oppressing their own people, then fighting outsiders.  But, who knows, they could go the same route as Iran is going right now, the way the people of Egypt are being treated.   
They also claim that Egypt is one of the most relatively stable nations (if you want to call it that) in the region, and on sufficiently friendly terms with the West, that there seems to be no overwhelming drive to change this balance of power at the moment.  Even though they have a fairly strong military, the nature of the area means that they also have all their cards on the table and no room to pull aces out of their sleeves.   
Through advisors and other technical means, the Pentagon, CIA, NSA, and other government bird-dogs, we keep a close eye on the Egyptian military as they do other ME countries.  Now, some of the Egyptians I had dealings with back in the 80's, I wouldn't give you two-cents for.  For one thing, most of Cairo is a stinkhole and probably the worst place in the world to drive a car.  For another, I found them to be very unreliable, unscrupulous, untruthful and lazy as hell.  When it came to leadership and diplomacy, I can understand now how Israel took them out in six days.  Of couse, that's my opinion.  Now see what I mean by long winded... most people could put the Military thing in one paragraph. 

The MFO is to watch the border with Gaza, not Isreal.  They are there to enforce trade restrictions with Gaza. 

Your wrong, Billy's right... and I'm glad to know that he served in the Sandbox.  Happy to know that there is someone else that knows what is going on over there, first hand and not from some liberal media goofball drunk like Michael Ware of CNN.  Sometimes I get the idea that America's MSM is nothing more than an off-shoot of Al Jazeera, a well-oiled propaganda machine for all things Islamic.  I will say this... there were a lot of holes and some big problems when the MFO first started out but, over time, they seemed to have got it together.  The mission of the MFO is to, "Supervise the implementation of the security provisions of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty of Peace and employ best efforts to prevent any violation of its terms.  Article II of Annex I to the Treaty of Peace establishes four security zones, three in the Sinai in Egypt and one in Israel along the international border. Limitations on military forces and equipment within each zone are stipulated in Annex I to the Treaty."
This site lays everything out: http://www.mfo.org/1/4/28/base.asp

  There is no direct threat to Isreal from Iran.

You've have got to be kidding.  Iran is the main COG of Israel's problems in the middle east.  Besides keeping things stirred up in other countries causing Israel problems, the funding of terrorist factions Hamas, Hezbollah and other kill-crazy groups, there is a little thing called Missiles.  Actually it's a big thing and Israel is not happy to know that they may receive one, one day, tipped with a nuclear warhead.  Who knows how far that 'crazy lying sack of crap lunatic' Ahmadinejad and his goofy Islamic mutton-headed mullahs will go in the future.  Religious clerics.... that's what they call themselves.... says alot for Islam, doesn't it.

Isreal can, and has been able to fend for itself.  They don't have 8 nations trying to destroy them, there are only 3 reasonable threats, syria, lebanon, and the palestinians, and the armed forces of these coutnries, even combined, are a big joke.

Lets see now.... Syria, Lebanon, Palestinians, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Yeman,  Afghanistan, Dubai, Turkmenistan, Omen, Qatar,.... just to name a few N.African and ME countries, some of which claim to be our ally, most who hate Israels guts and would very much like to destroy it...... These countries don't need an army to be considered a threat.  All it would take is a few suitcase nukes from anyone of them.  I hope I don't sound too cranky when I say, this one is so stupid that I don't even what to comment on it.  Slappy says "Hi"