Americans

Varmit · June 23, 2009, 04:22:53 AM

Quote from: Wilma on June 22, 2009, 08:00:13 PM
But the people are the government.

If that were true, then the gov't would get its power from the people, thus it would be leary of angering the people. Which is the way it should be, unfortunately, that is not the way it is. These days, the people fear the gov't, which I think would have our founders rolling over in their graves wondering what happened to the Republic that our flag symbolizes.

redcliffsw · June 23, 2009, 04:57:21 AM

How could we still have a Republic since we have violated our
country's constitution? Just look at the gov't checks (money) and
programs going to people and companies. Could it be that we
are a "socialist republic"? Sure looks that way as our founding fathers
never intended this mess.

Wilma · June 23, 2009, 07:37:05 AM

I would like to refer everybody back to the original post of this thread. Where we pledge allegiance to the flag and to the republic for which it stands. That says it all. What has happened to the government has nothing to do with the pledge. If you are still saying the pledge, you are pledging allegiance to the republic the way it is, whether you like what is going on or not.

Catwoman · June 23, 2009, 08:55:09 AM

Exactly, Wilma.

frawin · June 23, 2009, 10:12:34 AM

Wilma and Cat, I respect both of you ladies and your Philisophical values but I have to disagree with you on this one. I had vowed that I was not going to get into any deep discussions on these matters but this one is to much to pass up. Rather than say I am
disagreeing with what you say I am just going to say what I feel about the subject. You say what happened to the government has nothing to do with the pledge and further that you are pledging allegiance to the the republic the way it is. I choose to think that the pledge was written for the way this country was at that time and not the way it is now, otherwise I think an awful lot of people would refuse to Pledge Allegiance to this country which is taking the path of Socialism/Marxism/Communism. Although the writer of the original Pledge Allegiance, Francis Bellamy, was known as a Christian Socialist, I don't think he had any perception that this great Nation would take the far left course that we are on today. It would be difficult to accept that when the "Pledge" was written some 110 years ago that any of the powers at that time would have perceived the direction we are currently taking.

Catwoman · June 23, 2009, 10:31:36 AM

Actually, what I was agreeing with was an unconditional love of and allegiance to this country...Warts and all. I agree with you, Frank, about the Founding Fathers' probably assessment that this is not the country that they had previously envisioned. However...This is the country that we are stuck with at the moment. My only point that I have tried repeatedly to make was that you stand behind your country, even if you disagree with it, unless you intend to find another country to live in. You can't change things wholesale overnight by doing nothing more than griping about it...All you can do is change what you can, when you can, within the framework of our present democracy (what's left of it), using the existing laws and freedoms that we still possess.

frawin · June 23, 2009, 10:46:09 AM

Cat, well said and well put, we need to really work to make badly needed changes in the House elections coming up in 2010, we badly need to get a majority in both houses. I have never given up on this nation and I will never give up on it, my concern and efforts will be for the futures of my Children and Grandchildren, my Nephews and Nieces, Great-Great-Great(over 250 of them). We need to do lots of work and lots of praying.

Wilma · June 23, 2009, 10:48:23 AM

Frank, you are right. Also, our Constitution was written for a different kind of world than what we live in today. I wonder how much of it would be different if it were written today. I will, however, stand behind my statements that as good, loyal Americans, we shouldn't be tearing it apart in the eyes of the rest of the world. In their eyes we could easily be divided. In our hearts, no such thing can happen. But they don't see our hearts, they see only the words we use.

Catwoman · June 23, 2009, 10:59:01 AM

Gods, Wilma...Are you ever right on that one. I have no wonder at all that other countries view us as weak (especially when they are able to log on at will and view the senseless arguments that take place online)...However...I say that with a small smile, as it is completely obvious that they might consider us "weak" but are not brave enough to take us on, face to face...The fanatics who attempt to take us on only do so by coming up on our backs, where we can't keep an eye on them. They are nothing more than cowards who operate in the dark of night.

frawin · June 23, 2009, 11:55:09 AM

You two, of all people are the last two that I would have thought would advocate that we just accept the destruction of everything that our forefathers fought and died for. We are on a course of self-destruction and it is already obvious to much of the world. China and Russia must be laughing the heads off, they went down the path that we are taking to Socialism and it didn't work. I respect your opinion and your right to them, but if we do nothing you may loose the right to express yourself in anyway. I said it after the election and I will say it again, Never have we given up so much to get so little. Never has this Nation been so divided over an election. We are divided across a greater spectrum, a broader base of the country, now than we were prior to the Civil War. Unfortunately ythis is only the beginning of what is to come. I will leave it at that.