Unconstitutional California

[Varmit]

As if I needed another reason to not like california...

Couple Ordered to Stop Holding Bible Study at Home Without Permit
Thursday, May 28, 2009 
Foxnews

Pastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a Bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County.

"On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the Bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News.

"We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a Bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.

A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.

But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.

For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money.

"The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple Bible study in their own home."

"The implications are great because it's not only us that's involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of Bible studies that are held all across the country. What we're interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."

The couple is planning to dispute the county's order this week.

If San Diego County refuses to allow the pastor and his wife to continue gathering without acquiring a permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Honestly, just what in the world is the City of San Diego thinking?  These people are holding a Bible Study in their own home, on their property. 

[larryJ]

Thanks for the post, Billy.  It made me do a little research because I had not heard this story.  I would advise you to do some research on your own as I have found that "San Diego County will not enforce Pastor Jones to get a permit".  You posted an article from Fox News which would be suspect in my mind from the beginning.  Apparently the county employee asked some of the wrong questions and then it gets into first amendment rights, etc.  Be sure you have all the facts before you tell us what is going on in the world.

Too bad you don't like California.  Our agricultural valley areas supplies a lot of the country's food supply.  Our three major harbors handle most of the imports from other countries.  (And before you go spouting off about you only buy American made products, check the label closely).  To be honest though, California would like you because this state has such a diverse array of people and their beliefs and their feelings. Radicals are welcome here.   


Larryj

[Varmit]

SAN DIEGO -- A local pastor is outraged because he says the county wants to shut down his Bible study group, but the county says he has it all wrong.

Thursday, for the first time, a San Diego County official sat down with 10News, to respond to the allegations.

The story of pastor David Jones' claims against the county has grabbed national attention.

The county official said Jones has got it all wrong and tried to explain the curious line of questioning the county had for the pastor.

Jones said he has been hosting weekly Bible studies in his Bonita home for the past five years, but it wasn't until last month that someone complained about the sessions and county code enforcement went out to investigate.

Every Tuesday night about 15 people drive to Jones' Bonita home to eat dinner and discuss the Bible. They usually park on Jones' property, he said, but sometimes that parking spills out into the cul-de-sac.

Last month, someone filed a complaint about the number of cars.

A county code enforcement officer visited the house and asked Jones' wife about the weekly Bible studies.

"She said, 'Do you say amen?' and my wife said, 'Well, yes,'" Jones recalled.

"And she said, 'Do you say praise the Lord?' she said, 'Well, yes but what does that have to with it?'" Jones said.

10News asked the county official about the officer's line of questioning.

"Did the officer actually do that? Is that part of the requirements to ask those questions?" Reporter Joe Little asked.

"Obviously, I wasn't there, so I can't tell you exactly what was said. However, what our officer was trying to do is establish what the use is so that we know what regulations to actually utilize," explained Chandra Wallar of the county's land use and environment group.

Wallar said it's the officer's job to determine what kind of event is hosted at Jones' house to decide what part of county code the event falls under.

"The Bible studies are one that's probably in a very gray area," Waller said.

That gray area may be causing the problem. Wallar said the county only cares about how any event impacts the surrounding neighborhood.

"We want to make sure -- whether they're on a public road or a private road -- that they're parking safely; that we can get fire trucks in; that we can get police vehicles in," Waller said.

Jones' attorneys told 10News it sounds like the county is backing away from their original warning.

In April, Jones received a written warning for "unlawful use of land" and was ordered to stop hosting his "religious assemblies."

"They can stop religious activities in the courthouses and that but they're trying to stop prayer in my house," Jones complained.

"We honestly don't care what people do inside their homes. That's their business. That's their private right," Wallar said.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

My question is why did it go even this far?  If folks were parked illegally then issue them a ticket or ask them to move their car.  But it was not about parking.  The pastor was ordered to stop hosting his religious assemblies.  He was ordered to stop hosting Bible studies in his home.  If the County doesn't care what people do in their homes then the issue wouldn't have gone as far as it did.

I did not "tell you [sic] what is going on in the world" I merely posted an article and stated my opinion on it.
California wouldn't like me because I don't believe in harboring law breakers (illegal immigrants), I don't believe in social programs that bankrupt a country or state, I don't believe in kicking military recuriters off of school campus, I don't believe in gay marriage.  

[Diane Amberg]

 There were also allegations that a visitor to one of the nearby neighbors houses, had their car struck by the car of one of pastor Jones's guests and some complaints about cars over filling the neighborhood once a month. Sounds like a tempest in a teapot on all sides. I see where the locals might have been miffed at never being able to have their own event on the pastor's Bible study day, but surely they could have worked that out themselves. The media loves to try to create a whole cake out of one crumb. They gotta cover 24 hours and get people all stirred up so they'll keep coming back to check on what is happening.

[Sarge]

[quote author=BillyakaVarmit link= I don't believe in harboring law breakers (illegal immigrants), I don't believe in social programs that bankrupt a country or state, I don't believe in kicking military recuriters off of school campus, I don't believe in gay marriage.  
[/quote]

I'm with you there Billy.

[larryJ]

Billy, totally agree with your first paragraph in that why did it have to go this far.  Unless the media hypes it this story will be gone by next week.

As to your second paragraph-----------------

Illegal immigrants-------

Illegal Immigration to Kansas
According to USCIS figures approximately 47,000 illegal aliens resided in Kansas as of 2000. With an increase of 135 percent since the previous estimate in 1996, it is the meatpacking and agricultural jobs in the southwestern Kansas that draws the large number of illegal aliens. In the year 1999 Kansas requested compensation of $3.3 million from the federal government (under the federal State Criminal Alien Assistance Program or SCAAP) towards the incarceration of illegal immigrants. Kansas taxpayers were responsible for the additional $2 million as the federal government only paid $1.3 million in compensation. As of the results of increasing illegal immigration the USCIS has requested to open an enforcement office to deal with the large influx of illegal immigration.

Immigration to Kansas
Kansas' foreign-born population increased by 114 percent and accounted for one-third or nearly 135,000 residents during the 1990s. 12 percent or approximately 38,000 people of the Kansas' population are immigrants or children of immigrants. Fewer and fewer immigrants choose to become naturalized U.S. citizens. In 1990, 43 percent chose to become naturalized while in 2000 only 33 percent of immigrants became naturalized citizens. An increase in population often results in housing shortages and severely overcrowded housing. Authorities in Kansas define the 63 percent increase since 1990 or 11,000 Kansas households to be severely crowded. A total of 24 percent of Kansas' foreign-born non-citizens live below poverty level. For immigrant residents the percentage is 19 percent. With more individuals moving to Kansas, more strains are put on services provided by Kansas. One such strain is education. With enrollment increasing by 14 percent between 1990 and 2000, Kansas elementary and high schools are struggling with overcrowding, lack of space and frequently leaving teachers to use portable classrooms.

State economy---------

While Kansas economy struggles, taxpayer-paid jobs are at an ALL TIME HIGH
Thursday, April 2nd 2009

In looking into the numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau, here's what we found: the Kansas private sector economy is struggling, losing 14,600 jobs over the past year. However, the taxpayer-paid government workforce does not seem to be sharing in the pain that private workers face. During the last year, taxpayer supported jobs in Kansas increased 7,500. In fact, government employment is at an all-time high in Kansas: 267,200 jobs.

Military recruiters--------

From what I have been able to read about this, it is not about kicking recruiters off the campuses, but more about trying to recruit those under 18 years of age.  Some cities in California as well as other states do not want recruiters on high school campuses recruiting underage students.  Some schools, mostly private, have an active ROTC class available to students.

And the gay marriage thing, probably the hottest topic in town right now-----------

Several years ago there was a proposition on the ballot to recognize marriage between two people of the same gender.  Gay marriages were not recognized at that time as being actually marriages.  However, most major corporations made their benefits payable to spouses AND SINIFICANT OTHERS!  The proposition was overwhelmingly defeated in that the people of California did not want gay marriages to be legal or even acknowledged.  Then, because of protests, the state Supreme Court got involved and ruled the proposition unconstitutional because it violated amendment rights.  Many gay couples jumped at the chance to legally marry.  At the last election, the same proposition was introduced again with a different language so as to not step on any one's legal rights.  Again, it was overwhelmingly voted down by the people of California.  Again it went before the court.  In this instance, the proposition stands as defeated.  Gay marriages are not acknowledged in the state except for those who were legally married during the ruling of the previous court.

So, there are a great number of illegal immigrants in Kansas, and the social programs to pay for the schooling of their children is helping to bankrupt the state of Kansas, and I answered about the military recruiters who were trying to recruit underage people not just in California, and there is the whole story behind the gay marriage thing.

Larryj

[Anmar]

LArryj, thanks for sticking up for california.

  The issue is with San Diego COUNTY, not the state.  Believe me, when it gets to the Courts, they will slap some sense into the county officials and all will be as it should.  And yeah, California feeds the country and builds all these cool computers we're using, so don't go around trashing states, k thanks.

P.S.  Ronald Reagan was from California

[larryJ]

Yeah well, I wasn't necessarily sticking up for California as much as letting Billy know that the problems he has with California exist all over the country.  If you google "Kansas and economy", or "Kansas and illegal immigration", there is so much more to learn about these things.

As far as living in California, I have been here for 44 years.  My wife and I have raised our children here and both of them now are married and one has children of her own.  I don't see them leaving this area any time soon so that means unless I get divorced I won't be leaving this area either.  There is no way that my wife would move and leave her "babies"  behind.  I have lived in many western states and have seen places I would like to live in my retirement years which are more desirable to this one. 

As for Ronald Reagan, I don't know if history will record him as a great or good president, but he is one of the few who took California out of bankruptcy and made it into a money making operation.  Our economy hasn't looked better since. 

Larryj

[Anmar]

I'm in the east bay, where abouts are you?

[larryJ]

We live in a suburb about 20 miles east of downtown LA.  When I first came here I lived in the Long Beach/Lakewood area, then in Orange County and finally in this area.  When I got married we found a house that was on a cul-de-sac and a within blocks of an elementary school and miiddle school and the high school.  Our children could ride up and down the street on their bikes or big wheels or skateboards without fear of traffic.  Such a good life!!!

I have not been to your area but a few times.  I was impressed the beauty of the area though.  My wife has an uncle in San Francisco.  We don't get to see him much. 

Larryj