Government Health Care Plantation

Varmit · May 28, 2009, 04:48:44 AM

Quote from: Wilma on May 27, 2009, 09:08:30 PM
When you leave your wife and small children, not by choice but because it is the law and knowing that you will be going into combat as soon as you can finish boot training, without any idea of when you will be able to go home, then come back and tell me that you have more rights than some other people.

Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 27, 2009, 08:21:53 PM
by fighting and dying for it.

I guess I should've said, "by serving their country"

Wilma, EVERYONE has a choice. Those who were drafted made the CHOICE to follow that law instead of fighting to have it changed.

By the Way, there have been women in the military throughout history. They may not have been on the front lines but they have served, and not a single one of them were drafted. Their "sacriface" is just as noble as those who didn't return.

Wilma · May 28, 2009, 07:41:29 AM

Who is to define "serving their country"? Isn't living a good honest life, raising your children to believe in God and their country, not causing trouble, paying your bills, working for what you have, etc., just as laudable as "serving their country"?

Billy, I appreciate that you took the time from your life to serve your country. I do not have the personal experience of facing death, but I knew a lot of young men who did. You get to know a lot of young men when you live as long as I have. Serving your country is only a small part of being a hero. The hero part comes in with what you do with the rest of it. Being a hero to your wife and kids might just be the best thing that could ever happen to you. When or if you get to be my age, you will appreciate what your kids think of you. Everybody else will have forgotten.

Varmit · May 29, 2009, 12:54:59 AM

Quote from: Wilma on May 28, 2009, 07:41:29 AM
Who is to define "serving their country"? Isn't living a good honest life, raising your children to believe in God and their country, not causing trouble, paying your bills, working for what you have, etc., just as laudable as "serving their country"?

I wouldn't call that "serving your country", I would call that just being a good citizen.

Wilma · May 29, 2009, 07:02:47 AM

What do you call serving your country?

srkruzich · May 29, 2009, 07:17:51 AM

Quote from: Wilma on May 29, 2009, 07:02:47 AM
What do you call serving your country?

Thats pretty easy to define. Look at arlington national cemetary. Look to 2,000,000 people that go and take up arms to defend us. These folks jump in front of harms way for the nation as a whole. Firemen, police, other folks like that serve the local community not the nation as a whole.

One thing that has happened in recent years, we have managed to take certain words, ect Hero, Patriot, sacrifice and watered it down. We try to fit those terms to anyone that stands up and does something.
Certainly those that ran into the tower to rescue those were heros but they were doing their jobs too.
The men and women that stand up in combat in our national defence are heros, patriots, but they are doing their jobs too. I think of hero, patriot ect as one who goes way beyond their job description, way beyond any reasonable human response. It is those individuals that run towards death and does battle with death in defence of his brother that is the hero in my eyes.

The rest of us that do good, are good citizens, help others, are doing what should be expected of everyone. Why is it that when someone does what is right, it is reguarded as unusual and we have to attach a label of hero or something like that to something that everyone should do as a everyday thing.

Personally i just would rather leave the hero/patriot labels to be given to EXCEPTIONAL things people do.

Varmit · May 29, 2009, 07:48:56 AM

Srkuzich, I think that in a way you are right. But "hero" is a label that, I think, is applied on a personal level. Meaning that the definition changes according to who you ask. One persons hero may not be anothers.

Wilma, to me serving your country is defined as military service.

srkruzich · May 29, 2009, 07:54:50 AM

Quote from: BillyakaVarmit on May 29, 2009, 07:48:56 AM
Srkuzich, I think that in a way you are right. But "hero" is a label that, I think, is applied on a personal level. Meaning that the definition changes according to who you ask. One persons hero may not be anothers.

Wilma, to me serving your country is defined as military service.

Yeah you are right you know

I look at my sons as heros in my own personal way, they do something that makes me proud and something that i cannot do, but i do recognize that there are others that do much more than they do in the service to their country.

I agree that service to ones country is miltary service. It is a special calling.

larryJ · May 29, 2009, 09:56:05 AM

EVERYONE has a choice. Those who were drafted made the CHOICE to follow that law instead of fighting to have it changed.

Sorry, Billy, that is not how it was. When I was drafted I didn't have a choice. Whoops, I'm sorry. I did have a choice. Show up for the army or go to jail. Some choice. For the friends of mine who died in Vietnam the choice of jail for two years would have been a good thing. All of us whether drafted or enlisted "served our country". Back in the sixties, JFK said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Okay, we asked and we got our answer. Give up two years of your life and not see your family for months at a time and they (family) are trying real hard to survive on the lower wages you are earning while "serving your country". The rewards, should you survive, will be a G.I. bill that well enable you to buy a house, or get a better education, etc. Should you not survive "serving your country" we, the government, will bury you with honors and give your survivors this really nice American flag.

As for fighting for change, at that time an average of 300 to 400 people were dying each day in an obscure little Asian country that we had no real right to be in. Our country, or I should say, our government was not in a real good mood for trying to change anything about the draft. This era was probably the first time that there were any real war protesters in large numbers and the results of their protests did not affect the American government, but did cast a cloud of shame on those who came home from that war. While I love my country, if I would have had the CHOICE I would not have gone for I could see no potential threat from this Asian country to attack us.

Larryj

Varmit · May 30, 2009, 06:31:19 AM

Larry, what about the choice to actually fight, not just protest? You don't have to be in the military to fight for freedom.

As for Vietnam and our being there, I agree with you.

larryJ · May 30, 2009, 10:38:51 AM

I'm sorry, but I didn't follow your comment. Were you saying actually fighting as in being in the military or are you saying fight to change the draft law? We were in Vietnam fighting for their freedom, not ours. Just like in Iraq, we are there to provide freedom for someone, not us. In getting back to your original post, I believe you stated that we should fight to change the law concerning the draft. I do agree that you don't have to be in the military to fight for freedom.

Larryj