Just another example...

[Varmit]

So by that logic, old people who cannot live independently, we should go ahead and slaughter them too?

[Diane Amberg]

So how's that for twisted logic?  That's up to the person. We do have elder suicides and cases when the machines are turned off. Not the same at all.   We don't do CPR on everybody either.

[Varmit]

You said that a person cannot be classified as alive if it cannont live independently from its mother.  So how is my logic twisted?  Also, it is not up to the person, suicide is illegal in most states.  As far as CPR you're right.  But an unborn child isn't given the choice.

"... and others that have horrible malformations inconsistent with life are not "babies." "-Diane

what would you consider inconsistent with life?

"Nature unfortunately creates  one chamber hearts, livers and kidneys the size of a quarter and other awful things that science cannot fix...."-Diane

Actually, science can fix all of those things.

[Wilma]

How many of the babies that Diane just described would choose to be born and stay alive by artificial life support?  Just as old people choose not to be resuscitated if they are being kept alive by machines.  Or even if very elderly and have a heart failure.  

I am afraid that I have to support abortion just for the reason that a woman should have the choice of terminating a pregnancy that is endangering her life or will not result in a baby that can be kept alive.  Just because she has the choice doesn't mean that every woman is going to terminate.  Many, many women choose to have the child even when advised not to and when it appears that she will have to raise the child without help.  Why should a responsible woman be kept from the relief of an abortion just because some women are irresponsible?  Besides they don't just walk in and get an abortion just because they want one.  I understand that they have to go through counseling.  I don't really know, having never had to or know anyone that has.

I can't see that an embryo that cannot be kept alive outside the womb is a viable life.  Not any more so than the female's ovum and the male's sperm.  All the essentials are present in the ovum and sperm and when they are prevented from joining, life is being prevented.  Abortion is life being prevented.  Isn't birth control just a means of having your fun without having to pay for it?

[Diane Amberg]

Billy, you must lead an interesting life if nobody you ever heard of had a DNR order, or were told there is nothing more anyone can do, or were brain dead from some awful trauma. Inconsistent with life? I listed a couple already and no those cannot be fixed. Are you a neonate surgeon? You are assuming transplant or in utero surgery. It can't always be done....I wish it could. And who could afford it?   No insurance?According to you, too bad. Twisted logic? A fetus or collection of cells is hardly the same as a older person with cancer.

[kshillbillys]

Well, then if it's a woman's choice to kill her baby, why then can't women that kill their young children get away with it? They get put on trial and given a death sentence. What's the difference...it's just another form of the stupid woman NOT WANTING HER KIDS!

Elderly people are given the CHOICE ...the baby is NOT! What about Terry Schaivo? SHE WASN'T GIVEN A CHOICE EITHER! Her husband didn't want to take care of her anymore because he wanted to get remarried. Her parents were willing to keep her alive and take care of her! THEY STARVED AND DEHYDRATED HER TO DEATH...What say you to that one? Is it ok to kill a grown woman too?

Suicide is illegal in most states just like Billy said. Wasn't Dr. Jack Kervorkian (sp?) in prison before he died for assisting people with their deaths? I'm sorry but after you turn 18 then it's your choice to live or die. Under the age of 18 is a whole different matter. What exactly makes a person alive? A beating heart? Usually on the tv shows, if you have no heartbeat, you're not alive. The heart of a baby begins to beat 18 DAYS AFTER CONCEPTION!!! 18 DAYS! And after the heart is beating, no one considers this MURDER?Biology is crystal clear that at the moment of conception (also known as fertilization), a unique, organism comes into existence. Since this new life possesses human DNA and is the offspring of human parents, it can legitimately only be described as human life.

[Varmit]

Diane, just three examples of In-Utero surgery, that if it didn't happen, the children wouldn't survive.  Bear in mind that the child in the first article had a heart the size of a grape. 


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/27/AR2006012701619.html  - they fixed that one
http://www.med.wayne.edu/wayne%20medicine/wm96/frontiers.htm
http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/12573.html


How is a fetus any different from an older person with cancer, or althizmers, or dementia?  Neither one can exist without help from someone else or medicine? 


Wilma, what do you consider Artifical Life Support?  Also, I have already stated that I would agree on abortion being an option if the womans life were in danger, she was a victim of insest or rape.  But thats it.

[Catwoman]

 

[kshillbillys]

What does    and  stand for and who was it meant for?

[Catwoman]

    Stand down, Ellie May...I'm keeping out of this particular catfight.