State Sovereignty or Secession

[larryJ]

I was only saying I don't think it should be a law.  Like you said how would you enforce it?  Off the top of my head, without researching it, I don't know of any country that has a law stating you must learn their language if you are going to live there.  I would think it would be in the best interest of an immigrant to learn the local language in order to survive.  If I were to move to France, I would definitely make it a point to learn French in order to live better.  I am curious now that this subject has come up-- are the applications for citizenship printed in English or the immigrants native language?  And how did we get to this subject from state sovereignty or succession?

Larryj

[greatguns]

Probably not, but I want to be nice.

[Diane Amberg]

 Billy, as for education, that might have been more sports than meth!    Billy you are generalizing again! There are indeed pockets in this country that do have poor education.( yes, I believe states should have control) Much of the lower south, part of the mid west, pockets in cities....because the expectation is that EVERYONE should get the same education. Some kids today who are still in school, pulling the averages down, in my generation and before, would have dropped out around 8th grade. You think it's easy trying to teach someone who has a totally different agenda? I'd be happy if we could have tough 8th grade tests and then if you didn't pass, too bad, you're out. It sure would  have made my job easier. In areas of the country where most kids don't go on to college, keeping kids in high school can be tough because there is no incentive to succeed. And dumbing down education? I totally agree. Try working with a parent begging for their son's grade to be raised because he's the football jock and won't be able to apply for a football scholarship if he's dropped from the team for bad grades. "We" the teachers, didn't drop the standards, the parents in the 70s demanded it! At the same time the top keeps moving up, for the kids who will take advantage of it. There were no AP classes when I was in school. One of my friends' sons took enough AP classes in High School to graduate from UD a year early...quite a cost savings for the family. He now works at Aberdeen Proving Ground with an income I could just dream of.  I know some kids don't need college and college isn't for everyone, but teachers have a lot of competition from the big world out there. When the biggest thing in some kids' lives is their cell phone and texting, and parents allow it, the poor teacher becomes a real meanie. I work very closely with our elementary and middle Charter Schools. We hope to soon build a high school. No federal or state money will be used to build it, any more than was for the two existing schools. The kids there really want to learn, the parents are very involved and they win top prizes quite often. As we speak there is an Odyssey of the Mind trophy, sitting on the counter in the front office.  We recently built an big picnic pavilion for outdoor classes and such and the 8th grade parents got together and raised money to buy 16 big picnic tables to put in it That can also be a profit center for the school, as will the two basketball courts Al and I supervised the building of last week. We also met with the striping company rep. and laid out 4 four square, three hop scotch, the snail, and a center toss 4 square. The kids will think they are playing, but every one works different muscles and helps with balance. All in all, if parents and teachers have a good relationship, most any child can get an education appropriate to their needs. I expect you keep in close contact with your kids teacher, so you know how they are doing?   By the way, our paper this week had a list of merit scholarship winners from Newark High School....not too shabby! Why don't you get together with other like minded parents and build a charter school for your kids? The building cost is on you, your tax money pays for the teachers and you get to interview and choose them. Ya can't lose!

[larryJ]

Okay, I went and looked at the citizenship thingie.  In order to become a citizen you must be able to speak, read, and write English.  Not so for visas or green cards.  However, for those you must provide your own interpreter.  And, one reviewer of the website I was looking at said the "speaking English thing" was a farce.  You only have to be able to say a few words in English to pass the test.  I don't know that this is true.  I think not because if you have to read it and write it you probably would speak more than a few words.  So, I stopped looking and had a late breakfast and enjoyed a phone call from my son in Thailand which included a camera so we could see him and our daughter-in-law!  How wonderful is that?

Larryj

[Diane Amberg]

That is wonderful indeed. I'd like to see Thailand too. My nephew liked it and all the history and old buildings.

[Varmit]

Diane, I see your point on education.  We completely disagree on the dropout thing though.  I don't think that not allowing a student to remain in school because they didn't pass a test is the answer.  Given the laziness of alot of students, I think that this would just create alot of dropouts.  If we want to root out ignorance we have to start in the home, with the root cause.  My incentavie to succeed in school usually came in the form of a size 13 boot applied to my postieror.  When I complained about it my dad had a saying, "don't worry son, when applied at the right angle and with the proper amount of force, my foot will fit in your ass, if that is what it takes." Parents (or Parent, if that is the situation) need to take a more active role in their childrens education.  This doesn't mean advocating that their child be allowed to pass to the next grade just because they are the school sports hero.  I think that if a child wants to play sports they should have to maintain at least a B average.  Thats the way it is with my kids anyway.  And I will be damned if I am getting my kids a cell phone.  Except for my daughter when she is allowed to date. 

[Diane Amberg]

I wasn't really serious about the 8th grade tests, but I have to admit it did cross my mind a time or two.   I do agree with you  on most of what you say, but I just can't agree with physically hurting kids to make them behave. I'm just not wired to think that way. No cell phone for your kids Now? Well, aren't you an old meanie! Good! I wish I had a way of getting more willing parent involvement. Most were great and some I still see from time to time but it always seemed that the very parents I really needed to see the most were slippery as eels. No phone, wouldn't answer the door, never showed up for parent conferences, never responded to letters or messages sent or mailed home registered mail. The principal couldn't do anything either. Very sad.

[larryJ]

Here in California the state has decided to administer a "proficiency" test to seniors in high school to determine if they know enough to graduate.  I am not really in favor of this as there are those who can graduate, but maybe could not pass the test.  I think they should be allowed to graduate if their grade point average is suffiecient.  At least they didn't drop out and made it all the way to the end.  I am amazed at the websites that talk about the knowledge children needed to know to graduate 150 years ago.  I could not have graduated under those standards.  In my school days, my mother was a teacher and even my teacher in the eighth grade (one room school house).  So I had the advantage of that and never an option of dropping out.  These days when both parents have to work in order to live and provide for their families, the parental involvement suffers.  And the children suffer. 

BTW, we insisted on getting our daughter a pager when she began to hang out with her friends with the instructions not to ignore calls from us.  After that both of our children got cell phones on their own and then convinced us to get one so we could keep in touch.  Now I don't know what I would do without my cell phone (use the landline like I used to), my microwave (heat it in the oven), our color television(had a 13" B&W with two television stations that were on from 4 PM until 11:30 PM, when the flag was projected onto the screen and national anthem was played), my car with all the computer controlled gizmos (rather than sitting on the fender with my feet planted next the engine while changing the spark plugs). 

Larryj

[redcliffsw]

Origins of the Educational Nightmare
Destroying the Republic: Jabez Curry And the Re-education of the Old South


http://www.lewrockwell.com/wilson/wilson21.html

[pamsback]

Parents (or Parent, if that is the situation) need to take a more active role in their childrens education.  This doesn't mean advocating that their child be allowed to pass to the next grade just because they are the school sports hero.  I think that if a child wants to play sports they should have to maintain at least a B average.  Thats the way it is with my kids anyway.  And I will be damned if I am getting my kids a cell phone.  Except for my daughter when she is allowed to date.

WOW somthin the liberal leftwing berry eatin hippie(ohyeah and kumbyya singin) and you agree on My daughter got a cell phone this year...she is seventeen, dating and going places with friends and it's worth the peace of mind it gives me.

 

These days when both parents have to work in order to live and provide for their families, the parental involvement suffers.  And the children suffer. 

That's only true if the parents LET it be Larry. I was a single parent till my boys were about 12 and 13 and always managed to make school interest a priority. When I got married again I still worked and dropping out was NEVER an option for my boys and still isn't for my daughter, I worked her whole life up until last year when I lost my construction job. It just takes a little extra effort is all and it's worth it when they turn out to great people.