Stimulus

[srkruzich]

Good for you Steve..but most won't do anything productive with that little dab of money..
I'm glad you are going to put it to good use. Good luck on your bees..
but on the larger round scale............
Bailouts.....Stimulus.. they can call it what ever they want...
It isn't going to work... 


We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!

—Henry Morganthau, FDR's Treasury Secretary, 1939

Oh i totally agree with you teresa on that.  You cannot produce economic wealth by heaping new debt on top of old debt.   Its impossible.   Its basically like this.   I used to work for AT&T, Cox communications, Bellsouth, Hewlette packard, and i was paid good.  I made on average about 80k a year over the 20 years i was working.   I had a 50k a year lifestyle. I set back 30k into investments, i lost some i made some.  When i had that one heart attack that took me out of working, I tried to keep the 50k lifestyle because i was hoping that i was going to go back to work.  But it didn't happen and guess what.  I had to finally let things go.

THIS IS EXACTLY like what is happening now.  This country had that one heart attack that knocked it out.  we've had a good lifestyle.  But now the administration wants us to live the 50k lifestyle and hope that we get back to work.  Uh uh. That doesn't work. All its going to do is get us deeper in debt and we lose more.

The outcome of my choice of living the 50k lifestyle led to me losing everything in 2007.   Thats when I lived in a tent for the summer and took and saved up everything i got, and made some new choices. 
I moved here for one choice.  My moving here put me within my income level.  I do without things i would love to have. Heck i don't even have a TV set.  I have 1 radio and it only gets kote station, and this computer. 
I pay the high rate for my dsl and internet because i use both to communicate with family and phoneservice and quite frankly it keeps me from becoming the crazy old man that has goats.



But i really really think that if the administration would butt out and let the SHTF, sure there will be a lot of folks that end up like i did but guess what.  Theres also a lot of good folks that will help and there will be new opportunities that will surface.  Heck think about it.  IF these banks get back all these high dollar homes, the price of homes will drop to where the folks that lose theirs will be able to afford one or live there.

its simple economics.

The simplest thing i can think of is if the price of beef is too high, stop buying beef until the price comes down.  You see whats happening to oil.  Opec can't even manipulate the price because its too high as it is.  Everytime they cut, we cut back.  price drops

[redcliffsw]

Steve-

You're right.  There's no way for me to disagree with you.

The so-called "stimulus" is creating new public debt to enrich the wealth of others. 
Obama's "limits" on salaries is so phony.  Well - it's all phony..........

[Teresa]

Other than being a total idiot.. The big O is about as phony as they come.

[Tobina+1]

From Beef Cow-Calf Weekly.  An interesting take on the leadership tactics.

Stimulus Package Appears Headed For Passage 

With the Senate passing its version of the stimulus package, the stimulus, or "spendulous" bill as some call it, was likely to pass both houses as early as the end of this week. Reasonable people will disagree vehemently on the impact of this bill both positively and negatively, but it is a historic moment. A bill that will spend well over $800 billion when combined with earlier measures, makes this one of the most significant endeavors ever undertaken by our government.

The resulting 1,071-page bill knocked out in committee, which insiders admit few will have a chance to read before it's voted on, is on a fast track for passage today. Previously, Democrats had promised that the public would have 48 hours to digest the bill and its provisions before a final vote. That pledge appears to have gone out the window. House Republican Whip Eric Cantor (R-VA) wrote on Twitter, "Those in favor of speed over commonsense may just be afraid of letting the People know what they are ramming through."

The biggest benefit of the stimulus package may not have anything to do with the bill itself, but that it signals a shift in rhetoric from the leadership. This bill was a tremendous political opportunity in terms of effecting change, but it was opposed by the majority of Americans.

The sad result was that political leaders had to adopt the tactic of making sure that people understood it was needed and needed quickly. This tactic led to a steady stream of claims asserting that conditions were dire and the economy was on the verge of permanent disaster.

The inevitable cycle was jumpstarted as a result – expenditures decreased, business revenues declined, layoffs skyrocketed, concern grew, and the trough grew deeper and more serious with each passing day. Hopefully, with the stimulus package now done, the leadership will begin the work of rebuilding the consumer confidence it's worked so hard to tear down as a strategy in getting the bill passed.
-- Troy Marshall 

[Teresa]

Stimulus= Health Care Control


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_mccaughey&sid=aLzfDxfbwhzs

The worst part of the stimulus bill that just passed is that Big Govt now has its claws firmly into our health care system. It is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Has been since Lyndon Johnson at least. Doctors, insurance companies, hospitals, politicians etc etc etc..  So I guess that when you reach a certain age you are on your own and will be let out to die? What A great nation we are going to become.
Do the older people have to dig their own grave also? Undecided.... How old is old? who decides?
How is this stimulus?  Huh?

Maybe the liberals expect us old folk to just wander off like the old Eskimos did into the wilderness and let the wolves take care of us. Would save a ton of money that way, right?
Let out to die would be the better option I see here.
BUT.....
More likely when you reach that certain age and are deemed a burden to your society, you will be encouraged to to "do the right thing" and end it all.  Do it for "the Children". 

Hopefully, Obama and the Democrats have cut their own throat on this one..... Rationing health care.... seniors will be outraged over this ,IF  it gets the coverage it deserves....... hopefully this will be just one of Obama's downfalls that he has to fess up to..take responsibility for and ensure that he will not get a second term. 

The bill's health rules will affect "every individual in the United States" (445, 454, 479). Your medical treatments will be tracked electronically by a federal system. Having electronic medical records at your fingertips, easily transferred to a hospital, is beneficial. It will help avoid duplicate tests and errors.

But the bill goes further. One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and "guide" your doctor's decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis." According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and "learn to operate less like solo practitioners."

The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle's book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept "hopeless diagnoses" and "forgo experimental treatments," and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Daschle says health-care reform "will not be pain free." Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.

Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).

The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle's book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis.

If the Obama administration's economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.

The bill allocates more funding for this bureaucracy than for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force combined (90-92, 174-177, 181).

Be afraid, be very very afraid.

[Warph]

I repeat:

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

The late Dr. Adrian Rogers , 1931 to 2005

[redcliffsw]

Ann Coulter on the stimulus

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?pageId=88615

[redcliffsw]

Good one by Thomas Sowell

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell021809.php3

[redcliffsw]

Perfectly Clear Logic

Shortly after class, an economics student approaches his economics professor and says, "I don't understand this stimulus bill. Can you explain it to me?"

       The professor replied, "I don't have any time to explain it at my office, but if you come over to my house on Saturday and help me with my weekend project, I'll be glad to explain it to you." The student agreed.

       At the agreed-upon time, the student showed up at the professor's house. The professor stated that the weekend project involved his backyard pool.

       They both went out back to the pool, and the professor handed the student a bucket. Demonstrating with his own bucket, the professor said, "First, go over to the deep end, and fill your bucket with as much water as you can." The student did as he was instructed.

       The professor then continued, "Follow me over to the shallow end, and then dump all the water from your bucket into it." The student was naturally confused, but did as he was told.

       The professor then explained they were going to do this many more times, and began walking back to the deep end of the pool.  The confused student asked, "Excuse me, but why are we doing this?"

       The professor matter-of-factly stated that he was trying to make the shallow end much deeper. 

       The student didn't think the economics professor was serious, but figured that he would find out the real story soon enough. However, after the 6th trip between the shallow end and the deep end, the student began to become worried that his economics professor had gone mad. The student finally replied, "All we're doing is wasting valuable time and effort on unproductive pursuits. Even worse, when this process is all over, everything will be at the same level it was before, so all you'll really have accomplished is the destruction of what could have been truly productive action!"

       The professor put down his bucket and replied with a smile,

       "Congratulations. You now understand the stimulus bill."