Israel-Hamas

[Warph]

Four Israelis who live out of range of the Hamas rocket fire discuss the conflict in Gaza:


ASSAF NATHAN, in Haifa:
I support this action although I feel very sorry for the civilians.

A couple of days ago Israeli TV news showed an old Gazan man whose factory had been destroyed just a few days after his son was killed in a raid.

He wasn't an extremist, he wanted peace. I lost control watching this, I was in tears. I don't want anybody to suffer.

I think we should open the border crossing and allow food and aid in - but Hamas must also collectively say they will never fire again. And I know the chances of that are zero.

I think there can be no total victory - it will all start again at some point. Every day Israel still finds more arms and Hamas members. But I think we should pull out soon.

I don't know how I will vote. I don't care about land so much - I consider the settlers to be even worse than Hamas.

And why do we need to control Jerusalem? Let's make Jerusalem a capital for both countries, Palestine and Israel.



ZALLI JAFFE, in Jerusalem:
I know Gaza; I served there when I was a soldier and I went there on business when Arafat was still alive. I have close Palestinian friends.

This is a tragedy. However, I support the action in Gaza, because there has to be an end to rockets from Hamas. They want to annihilate Israel.

A victory for Israel would be peace - and it's not as difficult as you think. Stop the shooting. The only reason there are more victims in Gaza than in Sderot is because Hamas is not good at shooting rockets.

To conclude that Israel is at fault would be like saying the US was wrong in WW2 because many more Germans died than did Americans.

Of course this will affect the Israeli elections next month. [Defence Minister] Ehud Barak is doing much better now than before. Increased confidence in the leadership will be reflected in the results.

Education is the key electoral issue for me, not foreign relations. Israel's advancement is because of education, not anything else.

I do think some of the land in the West Bank - the majority - will have to be returned to the Palestinians.

I'm a religious Jew, and Jewish philosophy is full of prayers for peace and unity. Someone has to find a formula for removing fundamentalism. Extremism moves in where there is no knowledge.


MICHAEL HESSLER, in Maale Adumim:
A real victory for Israel would be for the world to recognise that Hamas is a problem and that self-governance by Hamas in Gaza is not going to work.

There's been anti-Semitism for hundreds of years and that's one of the underlying problems for Israel.

Some very creative journalists have twisted things round and make out that Goliath is David. When in fact, this monster of a Hamas is sending rockets on innocent Israelis.

My views have changed a little since the conflict began. At first I was more opposed to the idea of a ground incursion, I didn't like the idea of losing Israeli soldiers.

But if you stop now, Hamas will only come back emboldened. I hear more extreme views, calling for carpet bombing, but that wouldn't be right. There are civilians there.

There are probably plenty of nice Gazan people being used by Hamas terrorists as human shields.

Politics has stopped; everyone's hearts are with the troops. I have printed out a list of the names of the injured Jewish soldiers to read in my prayers. It's got to be equally painful for the other side.

I moved to Israel from Cleveland, Ohio, with my wife and young son six months ago.

Maale Adumim is not a settlement, it's a city. When you get more than 40,000 people it's a city.


CHANA STERNE, in Tel Aviv:
I definitely support this action in Gaza. I've always been fairly left-wing, but it's as if the [London borough of] Kensington has suddenly decided to send rockets into Islington. We have to respond.

But we need some sort of ceasefire, otherwise it'll go on forever. The sooner it stops the better. The Palestinians in Gaza are suffering absolutely dreadfully, one really feels for them.

I saw on TV last night how soldiers went into one house in Gaza and the whole basement was full of rockets. And they've put rockets inside mosques and private homes.

I think [Defence Minister] Ehud Barak is doing well, so I'm wondering if I should go back to my Labour Party roots, even though he annoys the hell out of me.

In terms of a wider peace deal, if it was up to me I'd give up the whole of the West Bank. I'm pretty left-wing in that.

But we retreated from the Gaza Strip and it didn't lead to peace, did it?



Four Palestinians across Gaza City describe a welcome easing in conditions after intense fighting between Israeli soldiers and Palestinian militants on Thursday:


ABIR, in Tel al-Hawa district:
The Israeli tanks have gone, but the streets are destroyed.

I look out of my window and I see big holes in the road and we can still see and smell the smoke rising.

The electricity cables are pulled down. The streets are empty because so many people left. A few are coming back very cautiously to collect some things, but they leave straightaway.

I can see the Quds hospital from my window. We were going to take shelter there yesterday, but we changed our minds at the last minute because we were scared to go out.

There was a tank outside the hospital, but it's not here now.

Because nearly everyone we know left the area, they are now all ringing me to see if they can come back.


MOHAMMED ABUSHABAN, central universities district:

For the first time in 20 days, we were able to sleep last night.

At the start of the evening we were all sleeping downstairs. But later the tanks pulled back from our neighbourhood and it was calm, so I told my mother and sisters to go and sleep in their rooms upstairs.

I heard on the local radio stations this morning that the Israeli tanks have withdrawn from the area.

It's such a relief. Yesterday was unbelievable. When you can hear tanks at the top of your street - I was telling friends on the phone it was like dying and coming alive again 100 times a day.

I still haven't left the house though. If things stay this quiet I might go to the mosque for Friday prayers.

The mosque is exactly where the tanks were, on the crossroads of the Islamic University and the Unrwa building that was hit. There is no call to prayer, because there is no electricity for the microphones. But we have a timetable, so we know when to go.

Also for the first time since this started, my father is using his car. He's gone to the supermarket to get a few things. Today's humanitarian ceasefire is an hour longer than normal, from 1000 until 1400.

I heard on Arabic language Israeli radio that Tzipi Livni is going to Washington and is working towards a 48-hour ceasefire. Here's hoping.

All of my family is OK. We are sitting in the living room, some are drinking tea, some are drinking milk, waiting for Dad to come back.


MOHAMMED ALI, western Gaza City:
Today things are a little better, although there are still explosions as I talk to you. We are on the coast of Gaza. I heard this morning that the Israelis had pulled back and then the air was full of ambulance sirens.

Yesterday and the night before that was really horrible. The bombardment didn't stop night or day and I could see many buildings on fire.

There have been nine of us sleeping in the same room. But my two sisters who were staying with us with their children have now gone back home.

We have two babies, one is 15 months old and the other is five months old. They are really suffering, especially the older one, he wakes up panicking.

At night especially you can hear the launch of the Israeli missiles very clearly. It goes "Psshhhhhh" and then you tense because you never know where it will fall. Yesterday they targeted a building 300 metres from my home.


AMJAD SHAWA, southern al-Remal district:
Our neighbourhood is still quiet since the Israeli withdrawal early this morning. But put this in context, there's still bombardment elsewhere in the city.

I've heard two people were killed in air strikes an hour ago, and about seven people died in Jabaliya today, in the north.

I took my nine-year-old son out with me during the ceasefire today, I didn't want to but he insisted so much, I let him. It was the first time he had left the house in 21 days.

We met other children and they immediately started playing Jews and Hamas war games: "I'm the F16, you're the Apache, you're Hamas." You can't separate them from what's happening.

There are still 13 of us in our house. My brother left his home in nearby Tel al-Hawa district yesterday, to escape the fighting. He was wondering if it was safe to go back.

I said 'No!' There's no accurate information, so even though the Israelis have withdrawn, they can come back in a minute.

We've had a total of three hours electricity in 21 days. Neighbours come over to charge their mobiles on my small generator.

[redcliffsw]

Who does Israel belong to?   


Israeli Sense of Humour at  UN

An  ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations  Assembly, and made the world community smile.

A representative from Israel began: ''Before beginning my talk, I want to tell you  something about Moses.   When  he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, ' ' What  a wonderful opportunity to have a bath!''   

He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water.
When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished.  A Palestinian had stolen them.

The  Palestinian representative jumped up furiously and  shouted, ''What are you talking about?     The Palestinians weren't there then.''

The Israeli representative smiled and said, ''And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.''

[Warph]

What are the solutions to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is one of the world's longest standing conflicts, extending back centuries.  Many people feel that resolving this conflict is the key to resolving the various conflicts throughout the Middle East.  Many observers see this conflict creating Arab resentment towards the "West" and fueling radical Islamic terrorism.  Although the conflict generates massive public discussion and debate, there are relatively few (if any) forums that inherently maintain an impartial and non-partisan approach to understanding it.


PRO Israel/CON Palestine

The Pro-Israel camp generally base their arguments on the following principles:

a) Israel is the historical "homeland" of the Jewish peoples who have lived there continuously since biblical times.

b) Many Jews believe that they deserve a "Jewish" state because of historical injustices, such as the Holocaust, and because they have international support and recognition through the U.N.

c) The majority of Israelis support a "two-state" solution, creating a Palestinian state alongside Israel in Gaza and the West Bank.

d) Other Israelis support the idea of "one-state", either by annexing all occupied territories into the Jewish state (far right view), or incorporate the occupied territories into one secular democratic state with equal rights for all (far left view).

CON Israel/PRO Palestine

The Pro-Palestinian camp generally base their arguments on the following principles:

a) The Palestinian people have lived in the area of Israel/Palestine since biblical times. They see most Israeli Jews as foreign colonizers who began arriving within the last 100 years.

b) Palestinians consider themselves a national entity, deserving of the rights of all nations, including a Palestinian state.

c) Many Muslim Palestinians and their supporters see the land as Islamic holy land, and are strictly opposed to non-Muslims owning and establishing a state on Muslim land.

d) Palestinians vary widely in what they see as a just solution to the conflict. They include: the total destruction of Israel; a "bi-national" or "one-state" solution; and a "two-state" solution.



Little Known Facts in the Israel - Palestine Debate:


Among the most religiously significant and disputed pieces of land in Jerusalem is the Temple Mount / Haram al-Sharif. It is the place where Jews believe their patriarch  Abraham prepared to sacrifice his son Isaac during the second millenium B.C. It is also the place where Muslims believe that their prophet Mohammad rose to heaven in the seventh century.

After the January 2006 legislative elections, the 24-member Palestinian Authority cabinet was made up by a Hamas' member majority, including one woman and one Christian.

Jerusalem is mentioned in the Old Testament over 650 times.  Although not mentioned by name in the Koran, Islamic tradition holds Jerusalem to be the location of the Prophet Mohammed's night journey to the "furthest mosque."

The 1967 War (a.k.a. the Six Day War) between Israel and the neighboring countries of Egypt, Jordan, and Syria resulted in Israeli control of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, and Sinai Peninsula.

In the decade following the first Arab-Israeli war in 1948, over half a million Jewish refugees from Arab countries settled in Israel.
Approximately 606 square miles, or 16.6% of the entire West Bank (including East Jerusalem), will lie on the Israeli side of the West Bank fence/wall, when Israel completes its construction.  This area is home to approximately 17,000 Palestinians in the West Bank and 220,000 in East Jerusalem.

The Israel-Palestine region's largest source of water comes from natural aquifers that supply 21.19 billion cubic feet (bcf) of groundwater per year.  They provide 17.48 bcf/year to Israel (35% of its annual water consumption) compared to 3.71 bcf/year to Palestinians in the West Bank (90% of their annual consumption).

Since 1985, the United States has provided an annual amount of $3 billion in grants to Israel.  Since 1993, the United States has provided an annual amount of $95 million to the Palestinians in addition to an average annual amount of $90 million to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) for Palestinian refugees.

[Warph]

Loan Guarantees to Israel

Since 1989, approximately one million Jews have immigrated to Israel. The majority, roughly 80 percent, have come from the former Soviet Union. Israel must provide these immigrants with food, shelter, employment and training. The task is even more challenging when it comes to absorbing Jews from relatively undeveloped countries like Ethiopia, who often must be taught everything from using a flush toilet to how to withdraw money from a bank. To meet these challenges, Israel has invested billions of dollars. In addition, the American Jewish community has contributed hundreds of millions of dollars through the United Jewish Appeal's Operation Exodus campaign and other philanthropies.

Still, the task was so daunting, Israel turned to the United States for help. To put the challenge in perspective, consider that the United States — a country of 300 million people and a multi-trillion dollar GNP — admits roughly 125,000 refugees a year. In 1990 alone, nearly 200,000 Jews immigrated to Israel.

The United States led the Free World in helping secure the freedom of Soviet Jews. Over the past two decades, successive U.S. Presidents have raised the treatment of Jews with Soviet leaders, while members of Congress relentlessly kept the issue alive through legislation and the "adoption" of refusenik families.

Since 1972, Congress has appropriated funds to help resettle Soviet Jews in Israel. Since 1992, $80 million has been earmarked for this purpose. The program, which is administered by the United Israel Appeal, pays for the costs of flights and other travel expenses for the refugees. The program also funds absorption centers, elderly housing, youth villages, intensive Hebrew training and efforts to provide permanent housing and jobs to immigrants once they complete the journey to Israel.

The Need Grows
After the Soviet Union opened its gates, the trickle of immigrants became a flood — immigration from that country skyrocketed from fewer than 13,000 people in 1989 to more than 185,000 in 1990. Israel then asked for a different type of help. The United States responded in 1990 by approving $400 million in loan guarantees to help Israel house its newcomers.

Guarantees are not grants — not one penny of U.S. government funds is transferred to Israel. The U.S. simply cosigns loans for Israel that give bankers confidence to lend Israel money at more favorable terms: lower interest rates and longer repayment periods — as much as 30 years instead of only five to seven. These loan guarantees have no effect on domestic programs or guarantees. Moreover, they have no impact on U.S. taxpayers unless Israel were to default on its loans, something it has never done. In addition, much of the money Israel borrows is spent in the United States to purchase American goods.

When it became clear the flood of refugees was even greater than anticipated, and tens of thousands continued to arrive every month, Israel realized it needed more help and asked the United States for an additional $10 billion in guarantees.

A Success Story
In 1992, Congress authorized the President to provide guarantees of loans to Israel made as a result of Israel's extraordinary humanitarian effort to resettle and absorb immigrants. These guarantees were made available in annual increments of $2 billion over five years. While the cost to the U.S. government was zero, Israel paid the United States annual fees amounting to several hundred million dollars to cover administrative and other costs.

Under existing guidelines, no U.S. foreign assistance to Israel can be used beyond Israel's pre-1967 borders. Moreover, to underline dissatisfaction with Israel's settlement policies, the President was authorized to reduce the annual loan guarantees by the amount equal to the estimated value of Israeli activities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip undertaken the previous year.

Thus, as the table indicates, the State Department determined that Israel spent just under $1.4 billion for settlement activity from 1993-1996. The President was authorized, however, to rescind deductions when making the funds available to Israel was in the security interests of the United States. President Clinton used this authority in the last three years of the program, so the actual reduction in the amount of guarantees available to Israel was $773.8 million.

The money related to settlements also had nothing to do with the new immigrants, none of whom were forced to live in the territories. In fact, only a tiny percentage chose to do so.

By all measures, the U.S. loan guarantee program was a huge success. Israel used the borrowed funds primarily to increase the amount of foreign currency available to the country's business sector and to support infrastructure projects, such as roads, bridges, sewage and electrical plants. The guarantees also helped Israel to provide housing and jobs for virtually all of the new immigrants. Unemployment among immigrants, which peaked at 35 percent, has dropped to 6 percent, roughly the same rate as for the rest of the population.

Besides contributing to Israel's success in absorbing immigrants while maintaining economic growth, the loan guarantee program also sent a strong message to the private international capital markets about the confidence the U.S. has in Israel's ability to bear this potential economic burden. Consequently, Israel's credit rating was upgraded and Israel can borrow hundreds of millions of dollars in international financial markets on its own.

New Demands
In 2002, Israel requested new loan guarantees from the United States to help it cope with the devastating economic crisis caused by the Palestinian uprising and unrelenting terror attacks against its citizens, as well as to prepare for the anticpated defense and economic costs associated with the U.S. war with Iraq. In 2003, Congress approved $9 billion in loan guarantees over three years.

As with the earlier guarantees, Israel was required to use the funds within the pre-1967 borders and the amount of the guarantees could be reduced by an amount equal to Israel's expenditures on settlements in the territories. The loan period was initially extended one year, but Israel used only half the guarantees, so a request was made and approved by the United States to extend the period until 2011.

[Warph]

Cooperation Between Israel
and the State of Kansas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exports to Israel in 2007: $65,644,127

Percentage change from 2006: 108.13

Israel's rank as trade partner: 31

Total exports since 1996: $341,835,426

Military Contracts with Israel in 2006 Using Foreign Military Financing: $1,894,759

Jewish Population in 2001: 14,000

Jewish Percentage of Total Population: 0.5

Binational foundation grants shared by Kansas institutions:

BARD (1987-2005): $275,000
BSF (1987-2005): $211,500
BIRD (1980-2005): $244,614

Recipients of grants from U.S.-Israel binational foundations:

Adacom Corp.
Kansas State
University of Kansas

Agreements with Israel
None.

Partners For Change
The U.S.-Israel relationship is based on the twin pillars of shared values and mutual interests. Given this commonality of interests and beliefs, it should not be surprising that support for Israel is one of the most pronounced and consistent foreign policy values of the American people.

It is more difficult to devise programs that capitalize on the two nations' shared values than their security interests; nevertheless, such programs do exist. In fact, these SHARED VALUE INITIATIVES cover a broad range of areas, including the environment, science and technology, education and health.

Today's interdependent global economy requires that trade policy be developed at the national and state level.

Many states have recognized the opportunity for realizing significant benefits by seeking to increase trade with Israel. No fewer than 23 states have cooperative agreements with Israel.

Kansas does not yet have a formal partnership with Israel; nevertheless, in 2007, Kansas exported over $65 million worth of manufacturing goods to Israel. The total value since 1996 exceeds $341 million. In addition, Kansas companies received $1,894,759 in 2006 for U.S. government-funded military contracts with Israel through the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program (U.S. military assistance to Israel). Israel now ranks as Kansas' 31st leading trade partner.

Israel is certainly a place where potential business and trade partners can be found. It can also be a source, however, for innovative programs and ideas for addressing problems facing the citizens of Kansas.

Israel, for example, has developed a number of pioneering education programs. One, the Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youngsters, has been praised by President Clinton as "the best preschool program on earth" and replicated throughout the country.

A range of other exciting approaches to social problems like unemployment, environmental protection and drug abuse have been successfully implemented in Israel and could be imported for the benefit of Americans.

The potential for greater cooperation with Israel for the benefit of Kansas is limited only by the imagination.

Kansas Firms Profit From Business With Israel
As the only country with free trade agreements with both the United States and the European community, Israel can act as a bridge for international trade between the United States and Europe. Moreover, because of the deep pool of talent, particularly in high-technology areas, Israel provides excellent investment opportunities. Some of the nation's largest companies, such as IBM, Microsoft, Motorola, Intel and McDonald's have found that it is indeed profitable to do business in Israel.

Roughly 60 Kansas companies have discovered the benefits of doing business in Israel, including, Aerospace Controls Corporation, Garmin Communications and Penny & Giles Aerospace.

Aerospace Controls Corporation sells aircraft actuators, which move control surfaces on the aircraft to Israeli aircraft carriers. Steve Keith, President of Aerospace Controls feels that business with Israel has benefitted their company and that he enjoys doing work with them.

Sarah Bean, Media Relations Specialist for Garmin Communications & Navigation, was also "pleased with their relationship with Israel. It was very satisfying bringing technology to Israel." Garmin is a manufacturer of navigation electronics equipment, such as the GPS receiver, which uses satellites for small hand-held navigator equipment used in hiking. Garmin sells aviation products, as well as automotive, outdoor and cellular products to Israel.

Another Avionics company, Penny & Giles Aerospace, has been busy with Israeli clients. They make avionics for aircrafts, performance software (i.e., landing and take-off programs), flight data recorders, computers. They mainly deal with Israeli airlines and larger aircraft companies.

Joint ventures between Israeli and Kansas companies can obtain funding from the Binational Industrial Research and Development Foundation (BIRD). The United States and Israel established BIRD in 1977 to fund joint U.S.-Israeli teams in development and subsequent commercialization of innovative, non-defense technological products. BIRD funds projects in 33 states and the District of Columbia. Most grant recipients are small businesses involved with software, instrumentation, communications, medical devices and semiconductors.

Since its inception, BIRD has funded more than 740 joint high-tech R&D projects through conditional grants totaling more than $210 million. Products developed from these ventures have generated sales of more than $8 billion, tax revenues of more than $200 million in the United States alone and created an estimated 20,000 American jobs. Kansas companies have profited from nearly $250,000 BIRD grants.

Scientific Innovations
The University of Kansas is among the Kansas institutions that have shared with counterparts in Israel more than $211,000 in grants awarded by the Binational Science Foundation (BSF) since 1987. BSF was established in 1972 to promote research cooperation between scientists from the United States and Israel. It has awarded more than 3,000 grants, involving scientists more than 400 institutions located in 44 states and the District of Columbia.

UK entymologist Deborah Smith has been studying with Israeli biologists the social behavior of spiders as solitary animals and in social groups and systems. She is studying the dispersal behavior of spiders and the role of genetics. Understanding spiders' social systems may teach us how other organisms form a society. She describes her relationship with her Israeli partners as "a great collaboration, the project would be hard to do alone." Working with Israelis, she says, has provided a more multidisciplinary approach to the research. Smith plans to continue the collaboration and hopes to apply for another grant.

Another UK scientist, Mark Richter, a molecular biologist, and his Israeli collaborators have been studying how enzymes work to make ATP. This has been one of the central questions in biology for many years. One major application is in nanotechnology, which relates to substances at the atomic level that generate energy and help damaged cells. Richter states that "there is a tremendous amount of possibilities for the application of this research." Richter adds that "working with Israel has had enormous benefits; we had a joint review from the two groups." He hopes to continue the collaboration and to apply for another BSF grant in the future.

A 1999 external economic review took an in depth look at 10 BSF projects. These 10 alone, produced aggregate benefits of $780 million, a figure four times the total expenditure of BARD since its inception (1978). The benefits accrue to the United States, to Israel and to both countries together.

Agriculture Benefits
The Binational Agricultural Research and Development Fund (BARD) was created in 1978 with equal contributions by the United States and Israel. Since its inception, BARD has funded nearly 760 projects that have led to new technologies in drip irrigation, pesticides, fish farming, livestock, poultry disease control and farm equipment. BARD funds projects in 45 states and the District of Columbia. In 2005, 28 projects were funded at 31 U.S. institutions. Kansas institutions have shared grants worth more than $275,000 since 1987.

BARD research done outside the state of Kansas has benefited Kansas immensely. Research on pesticide breakdown, will be useful for the Kansas sorghum crop, which is sensitive to common agricultural herbicides. Another research project on virus-free fungus gave 93% protection to wheat seedlings, which will be extremely beneficial to Kansas, which produces more than $1 billion of wheat per year.

BARD researchers have developed a computer program, which tells farmers how to use feed restriction and compensation strategies to optimize profits. Producing less feed would save U.S. and Israeli poultry farmers millions of dollars each year, and Kansas is one the of the main producers of broilers in the U.S. Another research project on making wheat storage more efficient will benefit Kansas, one of the nation's major wheat-producing states.

Other Cooperative Programs
Sister City Agreements

City of Winfield City of Kfar­Tabor

Hillel Campus Profiles
State Contacts
Jewish Federation of Greater Kansas City
5801 W. 115th St.
Overland Park, KS 66211-1824
Tel. 913-327-8100

Mid-Kansas Jewish Federation
400 North Woodlawn, #8
Wichita, KS 67208
Tel. 316-686-4741

[Warph]

When I was very young, people were accustomed to saying that the only two certainties were death and taxes. 

Over the years, there's a third item that could be added to the list: Every American president will try and fail to bring peace to the Middle East.  Obama is merely the latest to put it at the top of his to-do list.  My guess is that four or eight years down the road, long after he has managed to cure the leper and raise the dead, it will still be at the top of his list.

I hate to be a pessimist, but I see no reason not to be.  While the folks in Gaza didn't have two great choices during their last election, much like the electorate here in the U.S., they opted for the greater of two evils, much like the electorate here in the U.S.  They voted for Hamas, a terrorist group sworn to wipe Israel off the map -- the actual map, that is, not merely the fantasy maps they use in their schoolbooks.

It confounds me when people in America and non-Muslims in Europe attempt to find a moral equivalency between Israel and her enemies.  For one thing, they invariably find Israel culpable.  Israel may not always be right, but that's far better than always being wrong.  I mean, how does anyone living in a civilized nation dare argue on behalf of people who treat their women as chattel and who treat Christians and Jews even worse?

The same bigots who condemn Israel for killing Arab children when they respond to countless missile attacks never seem to condemn the Arabs for either firing those missiles or for using women and children as shields when Israel finally retaliates. 

Israel has had nuclear weapons for a good number of years, but has never once used them.  Is there anyone anywhere who honestly believes that if Israel's enemies had nuclear capability, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem would be anything but moonscapes by this time?

Those who claim to find a moral equivalency between the two sides in the Middle East are those who, themselves, have no sense of morality.  Decades ago, Abba Eban observed that Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.  He was of course referring to their failure to seek a peaceful resolution.  But it isn't peace the Palestinians want.  Neither is it statehood.  Even Clinton, who had Yasser Arafat sleeping in Lincoln's bedroom far more often than Lincoln ever had, got the Israelis to offer up 97% of what Arafat was demanding.  The way Arafat stormed off, you would have thought the Israelis had asked to have sex on a first date.

People who believe that Israel was wrested from the Arabs by the U.N. in 1948 are simply ignorant of the facts.  Zionists had been buying up desert property at wildly inflated prices for several decades by then.  All that happened in 1948 was that the U.N. recognized Israel as a sovereign state. 

Although the Arabs were invited to remain where they were, they were told by Egypt, Lebanon, Transjordan, Syria and Iraq, to leave so that the invading forces wouldn't have to worry about collateral damage when they eradicated the Jews.  The departing Arabs were assured that they'd soon be free to return and share in the spoils.  At the time of the invasion, Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League, left no room for doubt when he declared: 
"This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades."

That was 61 years ago and the grandkids and great-grandkids of those who fled and wound up in Gaza are still waiting for that Great Come and Get It Day.

Recently, Pat Buchanan, sounding an awful lot like Jimmy Carter lately, wrote a piece advising Israel to surrender still more land for peace.  Well, why not?  It's always worked so well in the past.  Whenever I read Buchanan on the Middle East conflict, I find myself wondering if his solution to the problem of illegal immigration in America would be to hand Texas, Arizona and California, over to Mexico.

Perhaps next time, just as a change of pace, Mr. Buchanan might consider giving the Arabs the benefit of his wisdom.  Perhaps something along the lines of "In case you haven't noticed, it's 2009, not 1009.  Stop behaving like bloody savages!"

Let me leave you with this:  If we take both the Old and New Testaments seriously we have to believe in a personal agent of evil.  That personal agent - Satan, the devil, Lucifer - has one goal, to separate mankind from God.  God chose one man, Abraham, to be a messenger of His grace. God said to Abraham: "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." Gen. 12:3 NIV

The devil has tried time after time to destroy Abraham's descendants and/or their relationship to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  Sometimes he's done it by leading them into idolatry.  Sometimes it's been by actual pograms - as in the time of Esther and under Hitler, Stalin, Mao and other demented fanatics.

I'm grateful for my past Jewish heritage, tho' my family has been Christian since 1914.  But, that by the person I believe to be the Jewish messiah God's promise that through Abraham would come a blessing to all nations was fulfilled.  We can't be anti-Jew, against the 'Apple of God's eye' and truly be Christian.  To deny the holocaust is to be anti-Jew and pro-evil.

As I look around at world events today, I can see the stage being set for another pogram.

.....Warph

[Wilma]

Amen, Warph, Amen.

[pam]

  I know this is an exercise in futility but......................

It confounds me when people in America and non-Muslims in Europe attempt to find a moral equivalency between Israel and her enemies.  For one thing, they invariably find Israel culpable.  Israel may not always be right, but that's far better than always being wrong.  I mean, how does anyone living in a civilized nation dare argue on behalf of people who treat their women as chattel and who treat Christians and Jews even worse?

Personally i don't argue on behalf of the men who are responsible for the state of women in Islam..I argue on behalf of the WOMEN and CHILDREN who have EVERY right to a free and long not to mention happy life whether they had the "misfortune" to be born arab or not.

The same bigots who condemn Israel for killing Arab children when they respond to countless missile attacks never seem to condemn the Arabs for either firing those missiles or for using women and children as shields when Israel finally retaliates. 

I condemn the killing of children no matter WHO does it...I condemn the people who fire the rockets at Israel and I condemn Israel for shelling neighborhoods..that does not make me a bigot.

Those who claim to find a moral equivalency between the two sides in the Middle East are those who, themselves, have no sense of morality.

I see no morality on either side of this ridiculous situation. Except for the morality of hate and death.

Let me leave you with this:  If we take both the Old and New Testaments seriously we have to believe in a personal agent of evil.

As the saying goes Evil lies in the hearts of Men. It's not a seperate entity you can blame everything on. If people stop DOING evil things evil STOPS. Evil is a choice.

We can't be anti-Jew, against the 'Apple of God's eye' and truly be Christian.

Having the intelligence to stand up and say TWO WRONGS do NOT make a RIGHT does not make you anti-jew or pro- arab OR a "bad" christian.

Now I'm sure I've cooked my goose as far as this goes but I don't care, I've been pussyfootin around for awhile now.
The situation in the Middle East is the most ridiculous there is. Both sides will not give an inch because the sites involved are "HOLY" sites of their respective religions. They are like two little bratty kids who want the same toy and if they can't have it they aren't gonna let anybody else have it in peace either.
They are perverting the whole concept of "Holy" and  the very things they claim to revere.
There is absolutely no reason on this earth why BOTH sides could not worship side by side if worship was what they really wanted.
ANY argument or war over "religious" domination is perverse. It's all about power and prestige and it makes me sick.

[sixdogsmom]

Good job Pam! Thanks!                                                       

[indygal]

As the saying goes Evil lies in the hearts of Men. It's not a seperate entity you can blame everything on. If people stop DOING evil things evil STOPS. Evil is a choice.

THIS is the most important statement in your post, Pam. To say a devil (Satan, evil, whatever term we choose) is the source of our un-godly behavior conveniently removes responsibility for one's CHOICES. Freedom is a choice. War is a choice. Religion is a choice. We choose who we are, what we believe, how we view others, how we conduct ourselves throughout life. Every moment we are at choice. Thank you, Pam, for sharing this.