Cow, beef and pig tax

[S-S]

Tobina, I just want to tell you - I enjoy your posts and find them informative. If I don't understand something, I read your post and clearly understand the discussion. Thank you for making your posts clear and accurate. 

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Well, my biggest complaint is that how can they truly tax each and every cattle or animal in a herd.  Are they going to drive around to everyone's farm, count everyone's herd, and then do the taxing??  That would cost us money, too!!!  I am not a rocket scientist, but how are they really going to do this.  I personally think that we over think and ruin what is good.  By the we here I mean the government.  I think that whether you know it or not the government is involved in your cattle business anyways.  I think that any time you sell cattle, don't you pay a percentage to Beef Council or something like that???  I don't really know that much about these things.  I need to sit down with Grandma and understand it all a little better.  She could tell me the ins and outs.  I didn't grow up on a farm.  But my husband did.  And cattle is our livelyhood.  I just let him run his business and I run mine.

Tobina, you are a wealth of information!!  I need to sit down with you too!!  You have so much to offer this community, with your knowledge on the Animal industries that you work in.  We need to get together and talk about all this stuff, so I can understand it more.  I do know the difference between a Bull and a cow.  Oh, I also know the difference between a steer and a heifer!!  That's a start right?

[srkruzich]

Well, my biggest complaint is that how can they truly tax each and every cattle or animal in a herd.  Are they going to drive around to everyone's farm, count everyone's herd, and then do the taxing??  That would cost us money, too!!!  I am not a rocket scientist, but how are they really going to do this.  I personally think that we over think and ruin what is good.  By the we here I mean the government.  I think that whether you know it or not the government is involved in your cattle business anyways.  I think that any time you sell cattle, don't you pay a percentage to Beef Council or something like that???  I don't really know that much about these things.  I need to sit down with Grandma and understand it all a little better.  She could tell me the ins and outs.  I didn't grow up on a farm.  But my husband did.  And cattle is our livelyhood.  I just let him run his business and I run mine.

Your right without NAIS which is a identification system they cannot tax every animal.  They can't find out who owns what.  But if they impliment it or even if you volenteer your information on your livestock to enter into their database they don't have to send the tax man out to count cattle. You do it for them.

[pepelect]

Is there a social security number with your name next to it?   Do you have a drivers license?   If you don't then they can't give you a ticket because they don't know who you are.  You won't have to pay taxes because you won't exist. 

Have you ever registered to vote?  Then you can't get away from not being a part of the government.  I don't think you are on the right track with this one.


Let's take all the serial numbers off all the parts of our vehicles.  That way no one can run our plates against the vin numbers....
If some one steals my truck, jacks some fertilizer, and blows up an IRS office they can't trace it back to me. 


The reason that NAIS  makes sense is that it allows you to market your products internationally.   It provides a system to go back to the idiots that have the 4 year old animals that they are slaughtering and kick their Canadian ass.    If your neighbor has a diseased animal wouldn't you want to know?  I know we all think are farms are the cleanest in the world but it only takes one foreign bug to ruin it for every one.

Every one born in the United States is issued a birth certificate.   Yet we can't find a whole list of people that rape, kill, mame, and try to not pay taxes.  Even in Elk County the list of unpaid taxes takes up two or three pages  of the paper.

I think that 4-H does a little bit of this.  They place a tag that can be scanned during final weigh in.  Personally if it will stop the cattle market from getting a bad name, that is fine with me.  

Nais has never been about anything other than government control of the food supply.  IF they can control it they can control the population.  How many hamburgers or steaks ahve you gotten in the last 10 years that had mad cow?  Hmmm None huh. that quite frankly tells me NAIS is not needed.
What NAIS doesn't tell you is this, if it becomes mandatory, and if lets say your cattle get anthrax or hoof in mouth, they will come in and destroy not only your heard, place your place under quarantine but they will also quarantine and destroy everyone elses herds for a 3 -5 mile radius.

As for the taxing the cattle and hogs, I don't see that happening.  Because they collect taxes on the meat that they sell already.  That would be double taxation.

Uhmm well not technially.  They tax it anyway at every point of sale.  You buy them pay tax. you raise them and sell them you pay tax.  the person who buys them pays tax and when they sell they pay tax.  and on and on it goes. 

The USDA/KDA already has the authority to come in destroy diseased animals and quarentine.   There is not a 3-5 mile radius.   It depends on what is affected wheather it is air borne, water borne, or animal to animal contagen. 

There is only three hundred million legal us citizens.   That is just a percentage of the number of animals that will have eid tags.   We should be imbracing the technology not hiding in the sand.   If you have nothing to hide then it will not affect you.  But if you are doing things that aren't quite right then you will not be able to market your animals/products effectively.

[Tobina+1]

Clarification of facts: 
NAIS is for live-animal disease tracking.  The proposed system is only when animal leave the ranch of origin.  You can keep hundreds of animals on your farm and they never have to be "tracked".  It's only when they leave and go to a salebarn or feedlot, which is where commingling and disease transmission is most likely to occur.  The latest information says that if they go straight from the ranch of origin to a packer, they don't have to be individually identified (b/c they are no longer LIVE).  Canada already has a manadatory version of this program for cattle and bison.  The proposed system is for individual ID for cattle (since cattle get separated, sorted, and commingled more often), and group ID for hogs, poultry, etc (animals that usually stay as a group throughout the process).  This system does not tie age, quality, or any other characteristic of the animal to the farm of origin.  It is a way to show that Animal 1 went from Point A to Point B and then commingled with Animal 2 at Point C.

Age and Source Verification for Beef Export Verification to Japan (BEV-J) is a USDA-Agriculture Marketing Service voluntary, value-added program where producers have to have auditable records about the age and source of the calves they raise.  Producers have to be signed up and approved under a QSA or PVP program that is run by 3rd party companies (like the one I work for).  Over the last year, the average premiums paid for ASV cattle under 21 months is $30 per head.  Since Japan requires that beef shipped to that country are 20 months or younger (under 21 months), due to BSE/Mad Cow scares, there must be an audit trail from the packer all the way back to the producer.  And the producer must keep birth records for 3 years, as well has have documentation on their processes on file.  This is a completely voluntary, value-added program.  Not all producers will qualify.  There is normally a cost to becoming approved, along with survelliance audits. 

[srkruzich]

IF thats all its for, then why make it mandetory.  The truth is that its not just for beef or pork. Its for any animal that leaves the farm, not just going to the packing plant but to the rodeos, take your horse for a ride off property and you have to send in a report within 48 hours and pay the fee for filing report.  Their including dogs in it too. 
Listen to what their not saying, not what their saying.  They're painting this rosy picture and not telling the truth.  IF you get 1 cow in your herd with mad cow, what is to stop them from destroying your entire herd plus your neighbors herds and leaveing you with the cleanup cost?

Clarification of facts: 
NAIS is for live-animal disease tracking.  The proposed system is only when animal leave the ranch of origin.  You can keep hundreds of animals on your farm and they never have to be "tracked".  It's only when they leave and go to a salebarn or feedlot, which is where commingling and disease transmission is most likely to occur.  The latest information says that if they go straight from the ranch of origin to a packer, they don't have to be individually identified (b/c they are no longer LIVE).  Canada already has a manadatory version of this program for cattle and bison.  The proposed system is for individual ID for cattle (since cattle get separated, sorted, and commingled more often), and group ID for hogs, poultry, etc (animals that usually stay as a group throughout the process).  This system does not tie age, quality, or any other characteristic of the animal to the farm of origin.  It is a way to show that Animal 1 went from Point A to Point B and then commingled with Animal 2 at Point C.

Age and Source Verification for Beef Export Verification to Japan (BEV-J) is a USDA-Agriculture Marketing Service voluntary, value-added program where producers have to have auditable records about the age and source of the calves they raise.  Producers have to be signed up and approved under a QSA or PVP program that is run by 3rd party companies (like the one I work for).  Over the last year, the average premiums paid for ASV cattle under 21 months is $30 per head.  Since Japan requires that beef shipped to that country are 20 months or younger (under 21 months), due to BSE/Mad Cow scares, there must be an audit trail from the packer all the way back to the producer.  And the producer must keep birth records for 3 years, as well has have documentation on their processes on file.  This is a completely voluntary, value-added program.  Not all producers will qualify.  There is normally a cost to becoming approved, along with survelliance audits. 

[srkruzich]

Is there a social security number with your name next to it?   Do you have a drivers license?   If you don't then they can't give you a ticket because they don't know who you are.  You won't have to pay taxes because you won't exist. 

Just because i have a SS number register to vote or have a license, doesn't mean i have to give government control of my life.  any one of them show up without a warrant and they'll be leaving fast with lead flying!

The reason that NAIS  makes sense is that it allows you to market your products internationally.   It provides a system to go back to the idiots that have the 4 year old animals that they are slaughtering and kick their Canadian ass.    If your neighbor has a diseased animal wouldn't you want to know?  I know we all think are farms are the cleanest in the world but it only takes one foreign bug to ruin it for every one.

Ok who around here sells to japan?  The last i see is folks take their livestock to feedlots over in west kansas or sells at auctions. I highly doubt anyone has direct contracts with japan.  Thats going to be the large corps that make that money

Every one born in the United States is issued a birth certificate. 

soo?
Its just a record of birth, not a tracking device.

[/quote]The USDA/KDA already has the authority to come in destroy diseased animals and quarentine.   There is not a 3-5 mile radius.   It depends on what is affected wheather it is air borne, water borne, or animal to animal contagen. 
[/quote]
NAIS has a list of diseases that they won't make public. Why?  Because they will destroy the entire herd including neighbors herds and they know if people learn of this they won't be allowed to go any further with their plans.

There is only three hundred million legal us citizens.   That is just a percentage of the number of animals that will have eid tags.   We should be imbracing the technology not hiding in the sand.

Just because the world has tv's doesn't mean i want one.  I don't have one and have no need for one.

If you have nothing to hide then it will not affect you. 

BULL PUCKY!  Its not anyones business what i might or might not have to hide.  Government has no business in my business unless invited.

But if you are doing things that aren't quite right then you will not be able to market your animals/products effectively.

Then thats my choice, and if in my choices i make bad decisions regarding selling or trading in sick animals then the market will put me out of business.  It won't be long before no one will buy your product if its defective.
When was the last time government didn't screw up any program royally. Hell, the usda can't even inspect beef right, remember jack in the box restaurant, or how many recalls of beef due to ecoli. You don't get ecoli unless your packing plants are nasty, and its the job of the USDA to inspect these plants isn't it? 

[bfrankjack]

Question for you srkruzich. 
How many Dairy Cows, Beef Cattle and/or Hogs do you own or care for? 
Did I miss this somewhere?
Just wondering!!!

[srkruzich]

Question for you srkruzich. 
How many Dairy Cows, Beef Cattle and/or Hogs do you own or care for? 
Did I miss this somewhere?
Just wondering!!!

I have some beef, some pigs, some chickens, lots of goats, a horse

[Wilma]

Do you raise and sell any of them for the income you live on?  Are you helping to feed the millions that are unable to raise their own?  Do you slaughter and butcher all the meat that you eat?  Not everybody can and we have to depend on some else to assure us that what we are getting is healthy and clean.  I, for one, if I did have a beef herd would want the assurance that my neighbors herds are just as healthy and clean as mine are.