I'm more concerned about this than the election

[sixdogsmom]

I am totally concerned about pollution and conservation and wildlife protection. I am deeply concerned that the anti-pollution laws in this country have so impacted our economy that we can no longer produce certain products, but freely import the same. At this time I believe that we ship out lumber to off-coast Chinese ships that then produce plywood that is in turn imported back into the country. If we are truly concerned about pollution, then we should not consume things that we are not willing to take the responsibility for. If we have electronics, then we should find a way to produce the needed components in an environmentally friendly way, and not buying them from overseas where the need for industry is so desperate that they will accept any conditions to make a little money. I am not only speaking of environmental issues but human issues as well. Some people these days say there is no global warming, and that polar bears are not endangered and wolves should not be protected. They also say drill, drill, drill without regard for environmental impact or the price that future generations may have to pay. I am not willing to sell Mother Earth and her inhabitants for cheap oil, gas, or anything else. We must begin to bear some responsibility for what we import. Off the soapbox now.

[pam]

"Man did not weave the web of life - he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."
Chief Seattle, 1854.

This is what I try to live by, it is the truth.

[mtcookson]

Alright... continuing on with global warming and pollution.

"Al Gore didn't invent the internet... but he did invent man made global warming."

This guy some how came up with the crazy notion that CO2 (carbon dioxide) is actually causing the earth to heat up due to the greenhouse effect. He has all of the charts showing how CO2 is the worst greenhouse gas of them all... when in fact, water vapor is actually the most prevalent greenhouse gas in our air. As far as quantity goes, its somewhere in the upper 90% range while CO2 is around maybe 4% to 5% if memory serves. The claimed "potency" of both is in the area of up to 70% for water vapor and 26% for CO2. Methane comes next, which is at 9%... and methane is where it starts to get interesting.

I feel that methane (natural gas) would be an absolutely awesome alternative to gas. There is a ton of the stuff everywhere, most people already have it at their home and with the proper equipment could fill up at home, its way cleaner than gas both in the emissions coming out of the tail pipe and for the engine itself (i.e. your oil won't turn black near as fast if at all), and the best part for me (being a sports car guy) it has a very high octane rating of 130, which is a lot higher than most race fuels... not only could you make a TON of power with that but you could also make a very fuel efficient machine with it. With that high of an octane rating you could heavily increase the compression ratio of the engine. Essentially, the higher the compression ratio the more efficient the engine generally is. Most car engines these days I'd say average around 10:1 for their compression ratio. With natural gas you could easily jump that up quite a bit more... an easy 12 to 13, but I would think even more would be possible. This in turn increases efficient AND power. You could have a very fuel efficient car that actually moved pretty decent unlike a lot of the econo-boxes these days. As a comparison, diesel engines are quite efficient. A small turbo diesel in a car can see an easy 40 to 50 mpg while the same car equipped with a gas engine would probably get 30.

Lets take the VW Beetle for instance. In 06 they offered a 1.9 liter turbo diesel 4 cylinder that was EPA rated as getting 44 mpg highway. The same model year Beetles had a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder gas engine so to get a slightly better comparison I went with the 2004 Beetle with a 2 liter 4 cylinder gas engine. Both however were rated at 31 on the highway. The diesel was rated at 37 in town, the 2.5 gas was 22 in town, and 2 liter gas 24 in town. The 2.5 has a compression ratio of 9.5, the 2.0 at 10:1, and the 1.9 diesel at 19:1. Other factors are involved of course... but the compression ratio can make a huge difference and with the right fuel (natural gas) you can have a standard "gas" engine running a high compression ratio. This is how you offset the lower amount of energy in natural gas as compared to gasoline. That's one of the biggest issues when you see conversions to natural gas, propane, even ethanol... all of them have "less energy" than gasoline but due to their much higher octane rating are able to offset the fuel economy and power drop by increasing the compression ratio and/or using forced induction (turbocharger or supercharger).

Anyway... natural gas would be an awesome alternative and probably the best... BUT... if the man made global warming (MMGW) people seriously believe CO2 is causing global warming then they should never, ever, ever allow the use of natural gas as a replacement for gasoline BECAUSE... natural gas/methane is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, by about 2 times if memory serves. Basically, if CO2 is causing global warming and you remove the CO2 and methane is put in its place global warming should be even worse. Nuclear power? I love it... but it puts out water vapor which is both a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 and in much greater quantities. Hydrogen powered cars? Just like the reactors, they emit water vapor. Now, when you burn methane CO2 is still released but to a lesser quantity than gasoline. The problem however lies in the fact that if natural gas replaces gasoline, a lot more will be released into the air (which should be why "they" wouldn't want to use it). Simple stuff like leaks, accidents, etc. etc. would simply cause more methane to be released into the air. All this really proves though is that the MMGW people either don't know all of the facts or simply don't want us to have cars anymore.

Regardless of all that... I would LOVE to see natural gas take place of gasoline. The only real issue with it is that its a little more difficult to store than say propane since it must be cooled down to store it in liquid form. Most cars running it today, that I know of, simply use it in compressed form which would be quick and easy... but quantity would be very limited and the tank size is pretty large. Take the natural gas powered Honda Civic GX for instance, it will only hold roughly 8 gallons worth of natural gas while reducing the trunk size by nearly half. If it were stored in a liquid form you could have as much as you would normally have with gasoline and likely a much smaller tank, but until the proper equipment is setup to do that it will likely stay in compressed form for a while.

The 2007 Honda Civic GX is rated as getting 39 mpg on the highway**, which I think is actually terrible as I think, if done correctly, it could do much better. Power is also kind of pathetic but again, it think it could be better. I really, really, really want to try it out sometime to see what I could pull off with natural gas but I wouldn't be surprised if I could get that thing to get better fuel economy with at least two times as much power. One thing to keep in mind though... I know back when fuel was touching $4 a gallon, natural gas was right around half that price... $2 a gallon. That used to be a lot but sure sounds nice right about now.

I think the problem is they took the same engine they used in the standard Civic (which actually gets the same fuel economy) but I think they basically designed more towards being emissions "friendly" instead of being an economy engine. I would almost treat a natural gas engine like a diesel engine. Build it very strong, give it a high compression ratio, slap on a turbocharger, keep the revs low (also making it more efficient AND reliable - revs actually kill engines faster than power does) and have some fun. Power and economy in an environmentally friendly package would be a definite winner in just about anyone's book, I would hope.

Hopefully some day I'll get a chance to try out natural gas or at least propane in one of my vehicles and see what I can pull off with it.

** New EPA fuel rating standards, starting for '08 models I believe, rates the 2009 Civic GX at 36 on the highway. Keep in mind gas powered vehicles will see a similar drop in the fuel economy ratings as well, though these are said to be a little more accurate than the old ratings.

[Diane Amberg]

Interesting post. I'd like to clarify one tiny thing. Al Gore didn't "invent the Internet" nor did he ever say he did.That's been tossed around incorrectly for years. I saw that interview and what he said was "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." He  saw early on  the importance of the internet's potential  for the public, not just the military. He sponsored several bills that eventually led to the public use of the internet as we use it today.   

[pam]

Good post mt. lots of information!

On the methane topic, I watched a report about a hog farm I believe it was that had found a way to convert the methane from his maure piles to run the barns electric and heating. I'd heard of it before but it was interestin to watch the actual process.

[Teresa]

Hey you guys.. Maybe if we take all the "methane" that we have in this forum, and convert it to energy for this winter.. we might be able to save on our gas and heating bills. LOL LOL

Pep wouldn't have to pay a dime for any of his bills for the next 10 years..

Just kidding PEP... You know that I am your biggest fan..    

[Diane Amberg]

 

[mtcookson]

Interesting post. I'd like to clarify one tiny thing. Al Gore didn't "invent the Internet" nor did he ever say he did.That's been tossed around incorrectly for years. I saw that interview and what he said was "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." He  saw early on  the importance of the internet's potential  for the public, not just the military. He sponsored several bills that eventually led to the public use of the internet as we use it today.

Yeah, the Gore thing was mostly a joke... at least the internet part.