Cap Guns & kids.

[mtcookson]

Here's some stats on officer deaths: http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm

I think most criminals get pretty intimidated when they see guns and most would flee. There will always be some that won't and those are the ones especially likely to fire at officers.

The way I always look at it is: Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. If a criminal is going to shoot at me, I'd at least like to be armed so that I at least have a slight chance of getting 'em first or to at least go down with a fight.

[larryJ]

Kinda wanted to comment on this one.  When I was kid growing up in SE New Mexico, our family was somewhat limited in income.  I always wanted a cap gun and, finally, one year got one for Christmas.  One of my older brothers took it to the movie theater and fired off a few caps and the gun was confisticated and I never saw it again.  Lesson:  never loan your gun to any one.

Later on, my oldest brother and some of his high school buddies had returned from rabbit hunting.  He was sitting in the living room talking to them while cleaning the gun.  It went off and through the armpit of one of his friends.  As there are a lot of blood vessels in the armpit, he bled profusely and they rushed him to the hospital.  My brother was always responsible about guns and this just happened to be an unfortunate accident.  Lesson:  The saying is "guns don't kill people, people kill people".  Wrong! guns kill people.  (added note:  the bullet continued on through the front door window glass and across the street to a neighbors house narrowly missing his wife.)

When I was a teenager, my mother and I had moved to the mountains of Wyoming where hunting and fishing were the norm.  I loved the fishing, but did not carry any kind of gun when the boys would go out hunting.  I became the guy who just tagged along.  Lesson:  Everyone does their own thing.  You can do yours and I will do mine.

I served my two years in the army and was never in a combat zone so even though I was issued a weapon (I was in Korea) I never had to use it.  I did have to carry it when outside the compound.  Lesson:  I will protect my freedom, hopefully without using a gun.

When I married, I told my wife there would be no guns other than water pistols allowed in the house.  She agreed and we have never had a gun in this house.  She always thought my decision was made to keep our kids from accidently shooting someone.  I told her years later that the decision was made so that if she was ever violently angry with me, she would not have the means to shoot me!  Lesson:  If there is no gun around, chances are you are not gonna get shot.

[pam]

Here's some stats on officer deaths: http://www.nleomf.com/TheMemorial/Facts/causes.htm

I think most criminals get pretty intimidated when they see guns and most would flee. There will always be some that won't and those are the ones especially likely to fire at officers.

The way I always look at it is: Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. If a criminal is going to shoot at me, I'd at least like to be armed so that I at least have a slight chance of getting 'em first or to at least go down with a fight.

This is basically my philosophy too.

"He was sitting in the living room talking to them while cleaning the gun.  It went off and through the armpit of one of his friends. "
No offense meant but one of the first things Dad taught me was to unload to clean it.
 
   It's just a personal decision whether or not to have a gun or other ways to protect your family. I prefer to be able to protect my family instead of havin to wait a half hour or more for the sheriff to get out here much less find my house! I'm against gun control because criminals don't give a *&^* if it's against the law, I truly believe that if you outlaw guns only outlaws will HAVE guns and then you are screwed. To each his own tho, which is why it should be free choice!

[mtcookson]

Later on, my oldest brother and some of his high school buddies had returned from rabbit hunting.  He was sitting in the living room talking to them while cleaning the gun.  It went off and through the armpit of one of his friends.  As there are a lot of blood vessels in the armpit, he bled profusely and they rushed him to the hospital.  My brother was always responsible about guns and this just happened to be an unfortunate accident.  Lesson:  The saying is "guns don't kill people, people kill people".  Wrong! guns kill people.  (added note:  the bullet continued on through the front door window glass and across the street to a neighbors house narrowly missing his wife.)

Definitely an unfortunate accident... but to say guns kill people and not people kill people is still wrong. I have a few guns and know of many more laying around elsewhere and they have never killed a person. In that situation the gun was simply mishandled by a person, your brother, and happened to go off. I would think that if he was cleaning it it should have been unloaded, unless it went off in the process of prepping to clean it or something. Regardless... a firearm must have some sort of user intervention for it to go off (unless by some rare chance the firearm mechanically fails causing it to go off, which could be likely on older guns). I have had an instance where I was firing a 9mm semi-auto pistol and the hammer block failed while the gun's safety was on. I only had maybe 5 bullets in the mag and when I went to chamber a round, with the safety on, it rapid fired 3 bullets as soon as I let off the slide. I believe it was a mix of a design flaw and being worn... and also being made in China. I was shooting by myself and had it pointed either at a tree or the ground when it happened so nothing bad happened. In the end though, it still required handling from a person for it to have malfunctioned which is why I'm still a firm believer that guns do not kill, people do (whether that be on purpose, accident, or simple mishandling, it will always hold true)

[flo]

never been for "gun control" because that will only control "legally owned" guns.  Remember, so called unloaded guns can still shoot.  ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS check to make sure it is unloaded before you clean it.  If the rifle or shotgun is being used to hunt, it should be unloaded and double checked before it is ever placed back in the vehicle.  Hit a bump, the gun falls and BANG - accident, yes, but just as deadly as if it was discharged on purpose.    listen to me.  Sounding like I'm the expert on guns.  It's just that I too was taught gun safety at a young age and never forgot what I was taught.

[sixdogsmom]

Diane, there are no drive by knifings or beatings either.

[pam]

Diane, there are no drive by knifings or beatings either.

No they have to get within arm reach to stab you So that would be a walk by.....

[mtcookson]

One thing that not many people know about knives though... a knife will beat a gun within about 20 feet (if the gun is still holstered of course). If a person were to rush you within that distance most times they would be able to get you with the knife before you can pull a gun and fire. Even if you are able to fire though, they usually have enough adrenaline pumping that they can still get you anyway... unless you place your shot very, very well.

[Tobina+1]

I know we've got way off subject from the original intent of this thread, but it's been interesting (and everyone is keeping it in check).
Random thought #1)  I have a relative who won't even let us say GUN in front of her son.  In fact, they SPELL IT BACKWARDS to talk about it!  We always wonder how he'll grow up and how his relationship will be with guns.  (His dad used to hunt, though.)
Random thought #2)  A guy I know went hog hunting and laid his gun down on the ground to grab something.  His dog stepped on the gun and it shot the guy's leg into smitherenes.  He still owns the dog.  He still owns the gun.  His leg is finally healed and he's been hog hunting again.  (So, that was "dogs kill people" if we're following that line of thought..  )
Random thought #3)  Like alcohol, I think guns are a state of mind.  My parents drank beer occassionally when I was little.  I knew it was kept in the fridge in the basement (not locked).  My parents talked to me about the effects of drinking too much.  I saw them drink responsibly.  I never had the need/curiosity to sneak beer.  My dad also owned a gun he kept in the front closet.  My mom was not familiar with guns, but still never made a big deal about it being there.  The only time it was used was for Dad to shoot skunks or opposum in the yard.  It was made clear that the gun was not a toy.  I never had the need/curiosity to play with the gun. 
Back to the story... I do agree that the Grandma was wrong... she shouldn't have gone against the Mom's wishes so blatantly.  But, I don't agree with the Mom's freaking out either.  I don't have kids and I already know that if you freak out about something, that it's going to raise the kids' awareness and curiosity more than just explaining your opinions about it.  Candy, pop, knife, gun, stove, mean dog, fan, whatever... the more you freak out, the more curious they get!

[Diane Amberg]

MT, you are right about the knife. As Emts we always have to take self defense classes, the proper safe way to approach a car in suspicious circumstances and more. We have a number of law enforcement officers who are also firefighters and Emts and they always tell us that someone with a gun may or may not shoot, but if the person is within 20 feet of you with a knife, you will be cut if that person acts threatened.