School Changes

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Let me clarify myself, if we add on to the high school in Howard are there guidelines that make it these fesible then building the new building.  That's what I meant to say.  I am on board for the new school!!  I am a vote YES!!  Just trying to justify why it makes the most sense!!!

[pepelect]

Yes.  If we build on an addition attached to the rest of the building such as building a grade school on the south side of the gym where the existing voag/woods/art is currently we would be increasing the total square footage of the the entire building. If we have over a certain number of students in this public space we have to install fire suppression equipment.   If we get over a certain square footage then the state fire code requires sprinklers in the entire building.  This is why you notice on the plan for the elementary school it is not on an adjacent wall but 20 feet away with fire doors between.  This negates the square footage and starts counting again.  Also if we build against an existing wall we would have to go back into that existing space and make it a fire wall.  There also has to be consideration for egress of the occupants of the building.  If any existing fire door is modified than the entire emergency egress plan has to be reevaluated.  All current building and fire codes would have to be applied to the entire building if we modified it with an attached addition.  The same would be true if we built on to either of the grade schools. 
The lower grades must be on the lower floors. The prek and k both have to have readily accessible bathrooms and at least two egress doors.
That is where a lot of the expense comes into play when you talk about remodeling existing structures for use as new grade schools or even high schools and try to convert them to grade. 

[flintauqua]

Thank you, Patrick.  Your last two posts have been very informing, and presented in a very succinct and easy to read manner.  I guess you did learn something from Gugler and Jennings after all.

I wish others would think about all the work that has gone into the decision to consolidate to one new grade school, rather than continue to operate three seperate school campuses. 

Economics, both locally and at the state level, and basic logic come down on the side of one new grade school, at the site of the high school.

Emotion and sentimentality are the basis of most arguments against this plan.

Emotion and sentimentality should play a role, and have throughout the decision making process.  But at the end of the day, they will not pay the bill that has come due. 

You can either apply the logic and economics locally by approving this plan, or you can wait until the state legislature decides to enforce their logic and economics upon the area.

How much attention do you think the legislature is going to give to local emotion and sentiments?

Charles

[sixdogsmom]

You are correct Charles, emotion, sentimentality or a new building will make absolutely no difference to the state. And if the state says it is time to consolidate, if we still owe on this building that we don't really need, we will still have to pay for it. Even if the state combines the Longton district with this one, we would be liable for not only this bond, but would assume the current bond that Longton is paying for. I am still certain that one or two grades (it has been done before), can be put into the highschool building if in fact all the gradeschool will not fit into one building. There are many middle schools that have grades six through nine, and highschool ten through twelve. If one or two portables are needed, then include those. Should the area suddenly finds itself in a growth cycle, then present the new school idea again. I might be more agreeable. And yes, Angie, I can certainly see that you would be all for the new school in Howard since your daycare is just a short distance from there. I do have to wonder if it were to be in another town, if you would be so 'all on board?'

[flintauqua]

Edie,

When consolidation occurs, it won't be West Elk and Elk Valley merging.  It will be every district in Elk and Chautauqua Counties, all but one in Greenwood, two in eastern Cowley, two in Eastern Butler, and one in southern Lyon ceasing to exist, with the area involved being attached to one of the following:  Ark City, Winfield, Augusta, Eldorado, Eureka, Emporia, Fredonia and Caney (if Eureka, Fredonia and Caney survive).

It's not going to be pretty, and it's not going to be piece-meal.  The legislature is tired of this hanging over their heads, and when they do it, they're going to make sure they don't have to come back 5-10 years later and do it again!

And when they're done with schools, they will turn their attention to consolidating the 105 counties into about 35.

It will happen!  I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.

Charles

[Sarah]

Edie,

When consolidation occurs, it won't be West Elk and Elk Valley merging.  It will be every district in Elk and Chautauqua Counties, all but one in Greenwood, two in eastern Cowley, two in Eastern Butler, and one in southern Lyon ceasing to exist, with the area involved being attached to one of the following:  Ark City, Winfield, Augusta, Eldorado, Eureka, Emporia, Fredonia and Caney (if Eureka, Fredonia and Caney survive).

It's not going to be pretty, and it's not going to be piece-meal.  The legislature is tired of this hanging over their heads, and when they do it, they're going to make sure they don't have to come back 5-10 years later and do it again!

And when they're done with schools, they will turn their attention to consolidating the 105 counties into about 35.

It will happen!  I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Charles

I'm wondering, even if Elk builds a new grade school, if they're thinking about consolidating that many school districts, unless they all do something radical too, then the state is still going to consolidate regardless of Howards new school don't you think?  I mean, they're not sitting there thinking, "Well, if Elk county does something, we won't do anything".  They're probably looking at all the school districts as a whole would they not? 

[pepelect]

So in the mean time we are suppose to continue spending as much as possible to ensure that the state knows that we are as ill equiped to deal with school finance as they are?  I can't see the rapid deployment of Kansas department of education coming up with a viable plan in the foreseeable future.  I can't wait 30 more years for someone to close my school district before I do something about our kids education.  If you want to be all big brother and consolidation sky is falling then look at their track record.  We can't even build a transmission line without 20 years of study.  You can't force another casino to build on the Vegas strip but the state is still looking at them as the savior of the mid west.

If the state consolidates the entire region.  The new school district will assume the debt of all those districts from which  it was created.  It works the same in the region model as the Elk Valley model you are so quick to throw about.  The entity that gets the students gets the tax funding and has to pay for the infrastructure.  It would level out the tax burden from all individual districts and every one would pay the same.  You would have one district and several schools.   Busing would be longer no matter which of the larger surrounding schools gets our kids. 

If this happens you are going to see the oldest and the smallest buildings discarded first.  The newest, best equipped, and largest will be utilized across the entire region.   

[Sarah]

So in the mean time we are suppose to continue spending as much as possible to ensure that the state knows that we are as ill equiped to deal with school finance as they are?  I can't see the rapid deployment of Kansas department of education coming up with a viable plan in the foreseeable future.  I can't wait 30 more years for someone to close my school district before I do something about our kids education.  If you want to be all big brother and consolidation sky is falling then look at their track record.  We can't even build a transmission line without 20 years of study.  You can't force another casino to build on the Vegas strip but the state is still looking at them as the savior of the mid west.

If the state consolidates the entire region.  The new school district will assume the debt of all those districts from which  it was created.  It works the same in the region model as the Elk Valley model you are so quick to throw about.  The entity that gets the students gets the tax funding and has to pay for the infrastructure.  It would level out the tax burden from all individual districts and every one would pay the same.  You would have one district and several schools.   Busing would be longer no matter which of the larger surrounding schools gets our kids. 

If this happens you are going to see the oldest and the smallest buildings discarded first.  The newest, best equipped, and largest will be utilized across the entire region.   

Well thanks, but my point was that the over all attitude is that this consolidation of buildings will put a halt to the state coming in and doing it.  I can't count the number of posts I've seen that have stated that building the new building will keep Elk county schools in Elk county, which in all actuality, isn't necessarily true if the state is looking at all the school districts as a whole rather than individually.  So, I was wondering if that's true.  I didn't realize so many school districts were on the chopping block and seems, unless all the school districts can do something, it's inevitable anyway, unless something major happens.

[Sarah]

Getting down to the nitty gritty, what is the primary reason the county is wanting to do this?

Is it because the two elementary schools are falling apart and are old and the county feels it would be better to replace them?

Is it because they want the convenience of having all the buildings in one spot to lower costs which really doesn't as the costs just changes hands from the county to the tax payers?

Is it because they're trying to keep the state from coming in and consolidating to another district?

Is it to try and prove that Howard is a growing community?

Is it because the students need a new building as they're outgrowing the one they've got?

What's the base reason for this.  And don't tell me all of the above because there had to be a major concern that brought all this up. 

[pepelect]

The reason we are doing this because the district can't keep paying its bills at this level of expenses. 

You either lower your costs, increase your revenue, or close the doors. 

We can't seem to attract enough students to increase revenue. 

So we have two choices lower the costs or close the doors. 

I don't think anyone wants to close the doors.