Polygamists kids

[pam]

Didn't know if this ought to be religion or politics I've been watching some of the reports about the hearings and stuff they are holding for these kids. God, I feel for them. No matter what you think about what the grown-ups are doin these kids are gettin screwed, blued and tatooed. They've got to be terrified, torn out of their homes, taken away from their parents, thrown into a world that they've been taught is inherantly evil and they'll burn in hell for havin anything to do with it....bein sent to live with total strangers. There has to be a better way to deal with it....it's basically all a big power struggle on BOTH sides now. What do y'all think?

[flo]

there was quite a discussion, I think it was in the Coffee Shop, on this subject a few weeks ago when this all started.  Opinions were VERY varied and some quite "heated" - Yes, the women are abused, maybe not as much physically, but definately mentally.  Some physically, I understand.  However, they could get out IF they wanted to.  Others have.  According to the news last night, there are mixed feelings about returning even the smallest of children to these parents because they will be raised in the same manner as the "abused" older children are right now.  It is certainly a very serious matter to have to decide, but the only thing that needs to be considered is the mental, emotional and physical well-being of these 400+ children. PERIOD .   And that's what I think about the whole situation.

[pam]

oh I know, they are in a no win situation, in time the kids will see they were bein helped but right now all they see is losin their families and all that's familiar to em. I could give a ,oops can't say that, crap about the adults on either side. I just wish I had enough room to go get all those kids and bring em home with me.

[twirldoggy]

Children going into foster care do suffer  They tend to develop behavior problem being in foster care and then bounce from foster home to foster home.  They get better when returned to their homes and parents.  This is a special situation which involves institutionalized pedophilia so there are many unusual factors involved.  The sheer fact of over 400 kids in the foster care system will tend to overwhelm the system which is chaotic and unstable at best.  Some of the children will also be abused in the very foster homes that are supposed to protect them.

[pam]

I know, the kids are screwed no matter what happens.

[W. Gray]

The Denver Post ran a story today saying that most of the older boys are "tossed out" on the streets.

Supposedly, they are ordered out to fend on their own and according to the Post most cannot assimilate because they have no familiarity with real society. Post says a number have become drug addicts in Las Vegas.

The story says boys risk getting kicked out if they roll up their long sleeves. [Wonder what happens to a woman if she rolls up her sleeves to work?]

The object is to cull most of the young males out to get rid of the competition to the older men.

Sort of like the Bull in the herd mentality.

[Teresa]

I have been following this so close.. Part of me doesn't want to, because I get so mad.. and I get so physically sick to my stomach. .. and the other part is so fascinating that I can't tear my eyes away.

But..................,,,,,,,,ok... how do I start to say what I want to say...

Maybe if I list.. no... I will just talk. ( like I am talking and thinking now)

First,, and I may rattle a bit here so bear with me.

When you look at the living quarters.. there is nothing on the wall but pictures of "him".. Warren Steed Jeffs. There is no pictures hanging on the walls.. or nothing that gives the feeling of fun and love...there is no children's toys or crafts in sight.. and one little boy ask "why...if the police cared about them.. why were they not hitting them?" Upon gently questioning, the boy said that you get beat and hit "BECAUSE" you are "cared about".

((Okay.. the anger is building as I type)))

Then ... and this makes me so sick I can't hardly function....

One of the mothers/ members  who had escaped form the Warren Jeffs compound years earlier.. told how she "allowed" him to take their babies.. BABIES.. and do what he calls "breaking them down". This was ... He took the babies and spanked them and spanked then and spanked them.. then held them face up under running water for a minute or 2..then jerked them out and spanked them some more.. then held them under the water..and continued to do this over and over and over..under the child was so exhausted, he literally couldn't stay coherent or awake any longer. She said that this treatment would go on for hours sometimes. And then he would do the same thing the next day until he thought that they were "broke and controllable".
The mothers NEVER intervened. as they were scared to death for themselves and the ones that tried, would be beat and punished  plus  having their children taken from them and they and the babies would be "punished" more severely. so they kept quiet and "submissive.

The girls are kept around and "trained" as they are the Breeders.. The boys are lots of times cast out, as they are not "needed" and their worth is not as valuable. Because of the competition to the older men who will breed  the younger girls. and younger being as young as 10.

The 2 women who had once lived ( 15 years as one of Jeffs wives) are helping with the case..has written a book. of the horrible abuses that Warren Jeffs would think up to distribute to people. There is years of this kind of treatment and mental and physical torture. And the mothers are victims and the children are victims.. the child victims that become adults are as screwed up as the mothers and fathers that should have been there to protect them from any harm.. but it is a huge compound of abused victims..
And unless the strand is broken and we get people separated and try to heal them.. it will just continue on and on and on.. and never end.

Most of these children can not even tell anyone who their real parents are! And THIS is what they consider normal?
It will be real interesting to see what the DNA testing comes out as.

Mothers that don't protect their children from abuse... by taking themselves and their children out of the hellish situation. or standing up for themselves do not.. and I repeat.. DO NOT need to have children. They can not take care of themselves.. let alone take care of their children.

To give them back would subject these poor innocent babies and children to more of the same ..because that is all they know and it is acceptable.. Fear.. suppression, abuse and pain...
Is THAT good family conditions for these children? Because that is what they have when they are there!

Lawyers and police have stated that Warren Jeffs is still as powerfully influential to his "tribe " in jail as he was out of jail. They are scared to death STILL of the man and the deranged God  that he has brainwashed them into worshiping. 

Some of these kids have watched cartoons on TV for the first time. They have read kids books for the first time. They have been able to run and play kids games. without fear, since they have been out of there. They have got to enjoy some of the things that kids should be able to enjoy.

Unless the mothers underwent LOTS of counseling .. and were proving that they could live a life without  the warped teachings of Warren Jeffs....( which is a big IF).. then my opinion would be to try to place the kids in a group home.. Keep them together as much as you could in groups..And I know that foster care is horrid in lots of places.. That makes me sick too!

Maybe give the mothers the option while undergoing counseling  to be able to live with them in the group home..  until everything is more stable all the way around and Warren Jeffs is put away for good...forever..
But then you still have Merril Jessop, who runs it with an iron hand.. and there will be more if he goes to prison.. it is just a vicious circle.

You know? If there was anyway I could get by with it.... and If I could get to Mr. Jeffs and Mr Jessop and any others that do these things.. I would dearly love to make them suffer in heinous horrible ways ..every day.. until they would be begging me for death. And I could do it too..and sleep like a baby at night.
There is no compassion in my heart for someone who hurts children, in any way shape or form.... and I have none for mothers who do not walk through fire to protect their children either..

So.. give them back to their mothers to take them back to the compound??  With or without the  Jeffs and the Jessops,  there.. my answer would  be no.
Not just no.. but hell no.

[archeobabe]

I heard something on NPR when coming home from Salina that the Judge stated that the women could get their children back only if they have their own apartment, put a restraining order on the father, and under go a mental evaluation.

[pam]

oh theres a special place for people like warren jeffs. it's called prison with a roommate named melvin. SOME day all the backward men like him will be gone and we can get down to livin without their twisted views.

[twirldoggy]

Some of these lids have gone to group homes and we need to pray for them.  The smaller ones would go to individual; foster homes.