NAIS

[Teresa]

Ahhh yes Frank.. but lets just continue to use and enforce the ones we have.. not bring in more..
Don;t misunderstand me.. I am not for not having any guidelines..but right now..we are over governmented ( is that a word?)  to death..
but ...that is just my humble opinion.

And yeah.. I am probably one of those cage rattlers when it comes to trusting the government.   I don't.. Simple as that!
I'm saddened and sickened by what is happening to our country. 

[Tobina+1]

One of the most highly regulated area of the food industry is ORGANICS.

One of the least regulated area of the food industry is "Natural".  Natural has not been defined by USDA yet, so therefore, anyone can claim that anything is natural.  Beef that is claimed "natural" (unless backed by a USDA claim) does not mean anything specific.  They could have only been "natural" the last 120 days of their lives, but fed all sorts of hormones and feed additives prior to that.  USDA is trying to start regulating "Natural" and "Grassfed" (Federal Registry has description and comment periods), but at this time, neither of those don't have any defined meaning except for what that specific manufacturer wants you to think.

[frawin]

Teresa, I agree with you in principal, I too am concerned about what is happening to our country. Unfortunately the conservative right, working people in this country are losing control, we are outnumbered and I don't know if the trend can be changed. I don't see anyone running for President that look like they will turn it around, Basically we have three (3) liberals running, two running as Democrats and one running disguised as a Republican.   There is more I would like to say but I will drop it at that.
Frank

[pam]

I don't mean to sound disrespectful of anybodys opinion cause like I said before we all got em. I've worked in several packing plants and they still ain't all that sanitary lol. I'm with Teresa, it's all about money and control. I'm a believer in self sufficiency myself if at all possible. That way I know whats in my groceries cause I raised em! I know most people don't have that "luxury" but more government control is not the answer, it's too easily corrupted cause much as anybody hates to believe it money talks and bullsh** walks. But that's just my humble opinion.

[Tobina+1]

I definitely agree that I'd rather know where my food came from (my own backyard) than wonder how safe it is and if/how much the government is regulating it.  But... (OK, everyone calm down and take a deep breath.  I'm not trying to flame things, just trying to raise a couple questions to ponder... for everyone to ponder respectfully, please...)

If you were to take one of your own hand-raised cows to the salebarn, and a couple weeks later someone called you and said that "a cow" was found to have turburculosis that originated at that salebarn "sometime in the last 2 weeks" and now they're going to quarantine your entire herd (aka, slaughter and test them all)... oh, but we'll give you "fair market value" for them... wouldn't you rather have a system that would be able to track WHICH specific animal tested positive for TB and then it could be tracked back to the correct salebarn and specific sale day and specific ranch of origin... and NOT have your entire herd eradicated?
I guess in this situation, I see traceability as an insurance policy AGAINST the government coming to sieze my herd, instead of a way for the government to get his hands on "my business".

[Teresa]

That's good food for thought. And it sounds real good. ( That's the scary part)

And if that was the ONLY reason the government wanted to put this through, and government had proven in the past that they really were concerned for the people and the small ranchers and the farming community as something that every town, big or small needed...and they were doing everything that they could to HELP every rancher stay in business...
THEN I would say that ..sure... if the rancher wanted to do it, it might be a good thing..

But ............unfortunately.. ( and I hate to sound like a negative broken record) but that isn't the main reason the government is wanting this to be pushed through. Ask any small rancher if  our government is on their side for them to stay in business. I can tell you what the answer is from about 90% of them.
( I too have also been to many farm and ranch shows and I have talked to lots of them on a personal basis)

I respect your opinion Tobina..and I know you have a loyalty to where your pay check comes from..And you probably do still believe in the "system"... but government is NOT on our side.
It might be a good thing if that was all that there was too it.. but  ...................................................... it isn't.

sorry.. they have proven that they can't be trusted.

And one more thing... I appreciate all who post and take the time on this forum to find information on both sides of issues and post it on here.. whether it is political, health related or just general information.. I want to thank you all very very much. I know we all don't agree on all issues .. and that is okay. I have to tell you I love the debate. the battling on information and viewpoints...the thinking and the passion that we all have about our beliefs and feelings. It gets the old brain adrenalin going.

So what if they aren't in the same box.. That makes it all the better.. Even  if we agree or disagree.. I do believe we all learn something each time. ( or we should) But the wonderful conversations on both sides of the coin is healthy, in my opinion.
We can agree to disagree. I hope no one ever feels like that they can't speak their mind on here. I realize that some of you may feel that some of us on here are more aggressive in our views than others and may feel intimidated in speaking what you think.
Don't be.
(Some of us.. Like me..  just have a bigger louder mouth than others..  but it doesn't necessarily mean we have all that much that is important to say)   

But the standing rule in here is...
No one ever takes a personal attack  on any one personally.  Just the issues.. and that is the way it will be.
So once again.. thanks for speaking out on all issues on all sides.

Teresa  

[pam]

I'll give you that that sounds like a good thing, and like Teresa if that was what the government intended and only that then I would say yay go for it. But what sounds reasonable is never what the government is after unfortunately, that's just the reason they use to get us to agree to it. Because most of us are all for somthin that will use common sense to solve a problem. LOL think they used to call what the government does the old bait and switch lol . I too enjoy bein able to talk about issues without fightin about em, that's how problems get solved 

[Tobina+1]

#1:  My paycheck doesn't come from supporting (or opposing) NAIS or COOL or any government program.  Like I said, the company I work for is PRIVATELY owned.  We started BEFORE NAIS or COOL was even an issue; to help ranchers manage data using new radio frequency technology.  My company is not going to fire me for being for or against NAIS or COOL; we simply need to know and understand the FACTS so we can answer questions our customers ask of us.  Like I said, I have customers who use EID technology to keep records on their cattle who are very much opposed to NAIS.  That's fine; we're not sending their data to the government; the Anti-FIA Law protects us (the law they passed for specifically this purpose; so PremID's and the information collected is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.  Kansas passed that law before even allowing PremID's to be distributed.)

#2:  I have also been to many farm and ranch shows.  And I would say that 90% of ranchers don't fully understand what's going on; they only have received information from pro and con groups, rather than bothered to do the research themselves.  Most of them don't even understand that the EID tag doesn't even STORE any data!  The most common question I get is, "How do I prevent my neighbor from getting my cow and reading the tag and finding out all my data?"  Since my paycheck really comes from the producers themselves, I feel like it is my obligation to give them neutral, non-biased information about the programs, and let them decide for themselves. 

#3:  I do enjoy the exchange of ideas on this forum, even if they don't agree with mine.  I just think that it was taken a little too far when there were multiple, very lengthy articles from other sources posted in this thread.  I could have come back and posted just as many, even longer articles myself, but I chose to explain and summarize my own thoughts instead... trying to create more of a calm, personalized, back-and-forth discussion.  I wanted to know what YOU thought... Not R-Calf!  I wanted to know what YOU thought the scenario will be, not just that the government can't be trusted!  Then I was accused of name calling and being naive and cuss words were used.  I didn't think that was appropriate at all. 

#4:  I'm done with this post.  As a closing, I'd like to offer some websites for anyone to feel free to review.  NOTICE: I have covered ALL SIDES of this topic.  One is the government's website for NAIS, one is an opposing view R-CALF, and one is an agreeing view NCBA.  Please review all these websites yourself and make your own, informed decision.  Or don't make a decision; the government hasn't!  It's not mandatory, and according to legislature, it's tabled "indefinitely". 
www.usda.gov/nais
www.r-calfusa.com/
www.beefusa.org (this one actually has COOL specific information since NAIS is not really an issue at this point)

[sixdogsmom]

There used to be a comic strip that was somewhat controvercial and very political. It's name was Pogo, and one of the characters was a very wise o'possum who said , and I quote, 'We have met the enemy and he are us". Many people get rabid about government, acting like it is a seperate entity rather than the collective efforts of many people to bring some kind of order from cayosse. As a democratic country of course we cannot please all the people all of the time. As responsible citizens, we should educate ourselves, vote and support our candidates, and work to let our legislators know how we feel about certain issues. Education involves more than reading and believing every rabid scrap of print that supports what we think is right, but reading and exploring all sides of an issue. Thank you Tobina for being a voice in the wilderness! Keep to your guns for the good of all. And of course, cussin' should be out of bounds in all adult written discussions!

[frawin]

Tobina, I hope that you will reconsider and contribute to the forum and future discussions. The forum needs people like you contributing to it. I too have been offended at times but that happens when large groups of people get into discussions and I try to overlook what offends me and generally choose to drop the discussion if it gets out of hand or offensive.
Frank Winn