The destructive that wants the US of A to be part of the Caliphate ?

[redcliffsw]

I can't disagree with you.  Meddling in others' affairs and business.  Isn't that what neocons, liberals and socialists do?   

It was Lincoln who sent the U. S. troops into the Southland - the Confederate States of America.  Bush and Obama are not much different than Lincoln - are they? 

"We feel that our cause is just and holy; we protest solemnly in the face of mankind that we desire peace at any sacrifice save that of honor and independence; we ask no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the States with which we were lately confederated; all we ask is to be let alone; that those who never held power over us shall not now attempt our subjugation by arms."
  President Jefferson Davis, CSA, 29 April 1861

Confederate First Sergeant... Union cavalry surrounded a lone Confederate soldier who had no horse and whose clothes were dirty and tattered. A Union officer said to him that it was obvious that he had no wealth and not the means to own slaves. The officer asked: "Why are you fighting this war?" The Confederate answered: "Because you are here."

The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history... But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it! Put it into the cold words of everyday! The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – "that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth". It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves.
- H L Mencken


Who is the greater threat to our American liberty - those elected politicians and un-elected bureaucrats in Washington DC or the threats of Iran?  Just asking . . . .

[Diane Amberg]

Uh, Red, this one isn't about the Civil War is it?  Metaphor and allegory is a fine thing, but what about what's happening now?
   I see Ross thinks he needs to protect you from me. That's mighty funny. Apparently he doesn't bother to read the shots you take at me, too. He just has to stir that pot and try to keep people up against each other, doesn't he? Put on those antlers and play elk!  You take your own part without any help, just fine.  You poke me. I poke you, so what? We still post about issues too.
Isn't the problem in the middle east still primarily about the oil? Who has it, who controls it and who wants it? At least oil is a material thing.It can be touched and used.These religious things aren't material. Sure they are important, but The Rules are changed and tweaked and massaged by humans to suit whomever is in power at the time.That is why where are so  many different religions world wide. Right?
The Muslims are not going to take over this country.The Muslims that are here living in peace don't want to. They love the freedoms they have here, but do worry about ignorant people here treating them badly. Especially those who don't know a Muslim from a Hindu and that is scary!
  Many Muslims who aren't uneducated, otherwise unemployed, have their teeth, and are not easily controlled, don't want that uproar in their lives. Of course the radicals do and that is a problem.
   Varmit, IMHO, there is no such thing as "simply'' crushing them.  It's been tried before...read the history of those who thought they would add them to their collection of conquests.It did work for awhile but WWII ended that. (Britain,France.)
  Do you understand how big and modern Iran is as compared to Iraq? Do you know how quick other countries might jump in if we do try to blow them all off the map as suggested? Some are having their own economic crises right now, but they are still watching. 
Do you know the real public cost of these wars? How about the personal costs? Unless the draft is re instituted, where will the military keep coming from...in huge numbers. Yes, I know there are families with military histories that go back many generations. They will continue to go I'm sure, but the same people are being redeployed over and over. That does and is taking it's toll.
Do you really understand the number of military who are coming home with terrible brain injuries spinal injuries and missing limbs? Modern medicine saves them now, but then what? The costs of caring for these brave people physically and mentally is gigantic, and still it isn't enough. There needs to be much more.  Just the idea of a homeless vet makes me sick!  But just mention raising taxes and people go ballistic.
It's all a very complicated and very touchy subject, but we need to be smarter than rising to sword rattling.
Do I have the answer? Of course not, but it's definitely not "simple" to my way of thinking. Are we to expose at least three more generations to never knowing the US not at war with someone? Regardless of which party is in Washington?
I still think letting them restore their own tribal lands would help settle them internally.

[Varmit]

Look the answer is a simple one...We should notbabe making deals with those that are sworn enemies of Isreal, period! As far as the rest of the world is concerned or how modern Iran is, frankly I don't care. I know that God is watching over His people and always will. What concerns me is how the U.S. is slowly abandoning our best ally in order to appease the Muslim world. Another concern is how that same Muslim world is pushing for sharia law in the U.S. (real estate laws in Portland for example). The simple fact of all of this is that we are engaged in a holy war. You do not compromise in those.

[Anmar]

No sense in trying to reason with someone who actually believes that Israelis are for some reason a "chosen" people.

[Ross]

Uh, Red, this one isn't about the Civil War is it?  Metaphor and allegory is a fine thing, but what about what's happening now?
   I see Ross thinks he needs to protect you from me. That's mighty funny. Apparently he doesn't bother to read the shots you take at me, too. He just has to stir that pot and try to keep people up against each other, doesn't he? Put on those antlers and play elk!  You take your own part without any help, just fine.  You poke me. I poke you, so what? We still post about issues too.

No dearie, I don't need to protect Redcliff from you. That is your imagination working overtime again. You must be communicating with your imaginary friends again.

It is you dearie stirring the pot. There was some real communicating go on here until you showed up.

Isn't the problem in the middle east still primarily about the oil? Who has it, who controls it and who wants it? At least oil is a material thing.It can be touched and used.These religious things aren't material. Sure they are important, but The Rules are changed and tweaked and massaged by humans to suit whomever is in power at the time.That is why where are so  many different religions world wide. Right?

Sure it;s all about oil, Diane! Never mind the beheadings, and drownings, and excutions of christians or the rapes of very young girls and selling women into slavery. None of that means anything, does it Diane?

The Muslims are not going to take over this country.The Muslims that are here living in peace don't want to. They love the freedoms they have here, but do worry about ignorant people here treating them badly. Especially those who don't know a Muslim from a Hindu and that is scary!

Of course you can guarantee that Diane ?
We are not discussing anything other than radical Muslims!
Apparently you haven't kept abreast of the news about Sharia Law spreading across our country, have you?
Or the Muslim terrorist camps, right?  Or area's of some cities where radical Muslims love and the police are afraid to enter, right, you haven't bothered keeping up have you?

Do you know the real public cost of these wars? How about the personal costs? Unless the draft is re instituted, where will the military keep coming from...in huge numbers. Yes, I know there are families with military histories that go back many generations. They will continue to go I'm sure, but the same people are being redeployed over and over. That does and is taking it's toll.

What price do you put on your FREEDOM Diane?

And the reason for being re-deployed so frequently lies on the shoulders of our Muslim Commander in Chief for weakening our military.

We re-deployed every six months during Vietnam, not anything new.

Do you really understand the number of military who are coming home with terrible brain injuries spinal injuries and missing limbs? Modern medicine saves them now, but then what? The costs of caring for these brave people physically and mentally is gigantic, and still it isn't enough. There needs to be much more.  Just the idea of a homeless vet makes me sick!  But just mention raising taxes and people go ballistic.
It's all a very complicated and very touchy subject, but we need to be smarter than rising to sword rattling.
Do I have the answer? Of course not, but it's definitely not "simple" to my way of thinking.

Of course Diane most people with just a glimmer of common sense understand this all to well.
I was once a homeless veteran, but I worked hard and brought myself back up. But the homelessness does not only happen to veterans, my heart goes out to anyone that is homeless. It is a tough world we live in, these days.

Are we to expose at least three more generations to never knowing the US not at war with someone? Regardless of which party is in Washington?

That is just plain liberal speak, it can't get any plainer than that!

It is not about a choice of war or not to war. If it is brought to you, you deal with it.
Or would you prefer that girls as young as eleven continue to get raped and the same goes for little boys.
Do you just ignore all the beheadings and the setting on fire of Christians, is that the answer. Do you sit and wait for them to come ashore here in the US? Well guess what, they are here. And Obama is bringing them in by the hundreds and thousands. Ask yourself  WHY doesn't Obama want our boarders secured?

I still think letting them restore their own tribal lands would help settle them internally.

Wishful thinking Diane just plain wishful thinking.

Who do you think the radical Muslims are killing and raping and forcing into sex slavery? Those people that lived on the tribal lands and they are becoming part of the Caliphate against their will.


Good night if you can sleep with the thought of young girls and women being raped and sold into sex slavery.
And all the other atrocities performed on the people. the people

I can because I pray for them.

[Anmar]

Oh Ross, you're so lost.  I just don't have the energy to point out all the faulty logic in your post, nor do I think it would do any good.  I'll just say nobody gave a damn about any of that BS you posted 10 years ago.  Nobody cares about it when our allies do it, no matter what race or religion they are.  You only care about it because the republican party, fox news, and other fake conservative pundits told you to.

[Varmit]

No sense in trying to reason with someone who actually believes that Israelis are for some reason a "chosen" people.

All a person needs to do is look at isreali history to understand that they are. From a military viewpoint they should have been beaten many times, the only logical explanation for their continued existence is divine intervention.

[redcliffsw]

So Israel does not need our assistance.  The U S Fed's and its military are not divine intervention although many nowadays think the government is their god in just about everything.

[Diane Amberg]

There is a lot difference between understanding the myths perpetrated by some and the facts of a situation. Sometimes it is hard to dig out what is really going on anywhere because of the need for competitive news coverage 24 hours a day now. Some aren't particularly concerned about their fact checking either. Something that does happen with some radical extremist sects suddenly becomes the norm for all? Is it wise to accept that? 
Do all religious sects handle poisonous snakes? No, but a few do. Do all reject medical care? Some do but that is hardly the norm. Is there a Bris held for every baby boy?  No, not at all.  Are there some who choose not to salute the flag en masse at school? Yes, but only some...can't make a general statement about it.      That's part of the freedoms we do enjoy. We have choices!  But a modern civilized society can't just throw all the rules to the wind. If so, how soon would it be before we were back living in fortified castles, scared of the mobs coming through preying on everyone they can. That means no freedom of any kind for anyone...back to the dark ages.
A couple of you keep barking about Socialism. How ya gonna beat up on the Muslims without "The people.''paying for it. Where would the money come from? Our taxes pay for all that. That's socialism! How else would it be done. I don't think we can have pay as ya go tanks, personnel carriers, and helicopters, where ya all empty out yer pockets, put in $500.00 in change and then go.  The spending is so much more efficient by pooling resources, which actually saves tax money.
As far as foreign affairs, there is much that goes on that cannot be made public for security reasons.
As an example, look at all the materials that are just now being declassified after WWII. A far as I'm concerned the cheap shots, and making things public too soon are a form of treason!
If some of you still want to bring down the Gov't, you will create a vacuum, and you can't promise what would take its place and by what means it would happen. Be very careful what you wish for.

[redcliffsw]

You're not one to research the facts or is it your dumbed down education that you are depending upon?