West Elk district holding mail election for $4 million bond

[Wilma]

We are not talking about "afford".  We are talking about what is "needed".  What do you do when you "need" something?  Do you wait until you can "afford" it or do you go ahead and "do it".  If I had waited until I could "afford" it, I wouldn't have  replaced my blown out air conditioner a couple of years ago and I still wouldn't have it replaced.

Do our children have to wait until we can "afford" it to have a decent school environment?

I would like to know just how much this will raise our taxes per hundred dollars.   I can think of a number of things that I can give up, if necessary, to pay the added tax.

[Ross]

We are not talking about "afford".  We are talking about what is "needed".  What do you do when you "need" something?  Do you wait until you can "afford" it or do you go ahead and "do it".  If I had waited until I could "afford" it, I wouldn't have  replaced my blown out air conditioner a couple of years ago and I still wouldn't have it replaced.

You talk about "need" but you don't explain the WHY of the need! Why is that?

Perhaps, there should be a discussion concerning the difference between "want" and "need".
First we are not discussing your budget or your blown out air conditioner on this ballot now are we? We can survive without the convenience of air-conditioning. I grew up here in South East Kansas and our home never had an air-conditioner. That is not a "need"! That was a convenience, a "want"!

It is this way of thinking that has brought our nation to a
$17 Trillion National Debt.

Do our children have to wait until we can "afford" it to have a decent school environment?

You have just said, that West Elk is not a decent School.
I totally disagree with you!

But suppose you are right, what should we do with the decrepit old building with the leaky roof, shut it down? And send our kids to the other school districts associated with Elk County?

I would like to know just how much this will raise our taxes per hundred dollars.   I can think of a number of things that I can give up, if necessary, to pay the added tax.

It is not a matter how much it might raise our personal property taxes, it is about
an un-needed
$4 Million Dollar Debt.

Let's back up to Want and Need shall we?

Someone wants a new gymnasium, and at least one board member thinks it just horrible his children may grow up with out knowing the pleasure of playing in a new gymnasium.

Now, I ask you, is that a "need"?
There is but one answer, "NO", that is not a "need!"

So we throw in eight classrooms and label them as grade school classrooms.
Are the class rooms really grade school classrooms?
What distinguishes them from any other room? Nothing! A room is simply a room until it is placed into a use.  But do we need eight grade school classrooms?

Wait a minute, the School Board says, we better not refer to them as a grade school, because the voters did not want a new grade school built, with the last Bond Election, so we will only refer to them as just classrooms.

But still do we need them, just so we can get rid of eight classrooms that cost the taxpayers $500,000.00 recently? The classrooms known as portable classrooms!
What is the need to throw away $500,000.00 worth of classrooms and spend  extra money to have them removed. Please explain this need?

And some one mentioned, go talk to the people that work there, didn't they?
Well those employees, the teachers have already asked the school board for those portable classrooms. But you wouldn't know that if you didn't attend the School Board meetings. Because, not everything makes it into the minutes of the meetings.

That is another reason for not videoing the meetings and posting them on the West Elk web site. The School Board doesn't want you to know, what is really going on. They don't want transparency.

So really, what is the "need?"

The School Board has also on several occasions during School Board Meetings, discussed raising our property taxes 4 mil and that they could do that every year if they want to. One member even suggested 5 mil, SORRY State law is 4 mil max. You won't read that in the Minutes either. They don't want transparency.

Has there been any real discussion about education during School Board Meetings? I mean real education in the classroom? You know about improving the Educational Standards? "NO"! Has there been any discussion during School Board Meetings concerning SPORTS? "YES"! At every School Board meeting!

This construction is not about Education, but it is about SPORTS --- a new gymnasium!

This is about "WANT" not "NEED" !
PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

[Ross]

Isn't the very same thing happening on the local levels across the country?
Isn't this the reason for so many cities filing BANRUPTCY?

The elites control but don't listen?

Our elites were told just a few years ago loud and clear "NO"!

Do they listen?

If the Bond Issue fails as they expect it too, they have already said they plan to do it again in November!

Let's see if they really will Bully us, what do you say?

Ignoring us twice is an annoyance, but coming back a third time would be BULLYING, in my opinion!

No political correctness here, is there?

[Patriot]

We are not talking about "afford".  We are talking about what is "needed".... 

... Do our children have to wait until we can "afford" it to have a decent school environment?

I would like to know just how much this will raise our taxes per hundred dollars.   I can think of a number of things that I can give up, if necessary, to pay the added tax.

1.  Since when do kids 'need' a new gym?  Methinks you confuse 'need' with 'want'.

2.  So, you think the current school environment is somehow indecent?  Compare the schools you attended in decades past and then show how the current facilities are somehow of lower standards, please.

3.  About 4.8 mils at last tally.  That's north of $110,000 per year, for many years, to the taxpayers in the USD 282 District.  Not to mention it places the taxpayers in debt to bondholders not just for money loaned to the district but interest as well.  With a shrinking and aging local population, the state of the economy locally, regionally & nationally, and the inherent risks of having substantial debt, one 'needs' to consider the wisdom of significant debt... both at the personal and corporate levels. 

If the district can afford sprinkler systems for ball fields out of pocket, and if the have (and have had for several years) enough money on hand to fix roof leaks & air conditioning (but have not done so), perhaps you might consider chastising the school board & administration for their apparent mismanagement rather than praising them for their glutenous, selfish desires to borrow big money for the 'wants' of a few.

Time, tests & reality have shown decade after decade that throwing money at the public education system (especially at brick and mortar issues) does NOT produce better educational outcomes.  High quality teachers, innovative curriculum & administrations dedicated to quality teaching do.

[Wilma]

$110,000 per year for many years, but just how much of that will be on MY tax bill?

My question still hasn't been answered.  I want dollars and cents as it applies to me, not to the whole county.  How much per $100.00 will my taxes be raised?

[nykkylsdymes]

$110,000 per year for many years, but just how much of that will be on MY tax bill?

My question still hasn't been answered.  I want dollars and cents as it applies to me, not to the whole county.  How much per $100.00 will my taxes be raised?

First let me state that the entire county is NOT effected, only those living in USD 282. 

I certainly don't have the exact answer for that question.  I don't know how many tax payers are in this school district.  But if I could take a wild guess, and I mean this is a true wild guess, let's say there are 750 of us poor people to foot the bill for the next....oh 30 years???   if my math is right and someone please correct me if I am wrong, it's about $100/yr or more maybe???  Again, I am not entirely sure of the formula so I am doing my best wild guessing here.  That being said... over 36 years...$3600 or so.  Not bad you say.  You can find the extra cash to help out, great.  Now those of us who are still paying a mortgage, raising children, paying for the rising cost of gasoline, tires, oil, food, propane, groceries, utilities and clothes will find it tougher.  And oh yeah, when you die... I get to pick up the slack because there aren't a whole lot of people moving to this wonderful county any time soon.  Contrary to popular belief around these parts, building a school does not make people move here.  JOBS do. 

On top of local taxes, I pay state and federal taxes. You don't pay those do you?  You are on a pension, right?? Working people pay those.  Comes right out of my paycheck.  Now granted, the State and the Feds decreased from last year but where do you think they have to make up the shortfall???  Local taxes... they rose $1,285,785.00 from last years budget.  And now you want to tack on another $4,000,000.00 and strap the local tax payers with that for the next 25+ years???  Wow.    Good heavens, that would make our little schools total expenditures over $12,000,000.00!!!!!  But it doesn't look as bad when you spread it out, does it? 

If you are paying attention to budgets, not just the schools but our local budget as well, the State and the Feds are shutting off the tap and putting the burden on the Local Government.  That means more out of our pockets at the local level.  Do you even have a clue what we pay for??? Not just the roads, papers and pens at the courthouse, but we pay 95% of their health insurance (the school pays all of it for single employees bet it is 95% for all others) and I can't even afford health insurance for myself.


So go ahead Miss Wilma.... pay your part.  Bully for you. 

I still say NO.  Improve what we have, make do just like everyone else has to.  Fix the leaks and pay the teachers to do their job.  Just like you said Wilma, replace the air conditioner when it no longer works, but don't build the new home because you want a bigger air conditioner. 

[Wilma]

You are right about my income, except the pension never increases the way the cost of living does and it is a very piddling one at that.  Social Security increases only if the cost of living rises a certain amount.  I can't change jobs to increase my income or receive a raise like working people do.  I, also, have all the expenses you listed except the mortgage as I managed to have my property paid for before I retired.  I raised four children, sent them to school on tax money paid by people like me whose children no longer benefited from it.  Now it is my turn to help with today's children.  I am willing to do that.

Another thread mentions the new handicapped parking being developed at the court house.  I am very grateful for that and for the tax money that is paying for it, but just how many Elk County taxpayers are going to benefit from it?  Yet I am not hearing any complaints about the cost of it?  You may not need to use it, but you are paying your share.

Why are people so set against paying for anything for the school?

I still don't have an answer as to just how many dollars per hundred the school bond would raise my taxes.
Doesn't anyone know how to figure it?

[Diane Amberg]

Ross, a nosy question from me.If you are so bad off financially, why not go back to work, sell off some land or rent a house to lower your taxes. Why do you assume everyone out there is as poor as you feel you are? It sounds to me like you have more of a lifestyle problem related to finances than a school bond issue problem.  Also, apparently your folks out there do not get out and vote, regardless of the tax issue Doesn't that bother you? You are quick to suggest that your teachers aren't earning their pay. How about poking at those who don't go vote.

[Ross]

Why are people so set against paying for anything for the school?

People are not against what is NEEDED for the School to provide an education for children!

Personally, I am against spending money foolishly !

Education does not require a Taj Mahal and a Crystal Chandlier, does it?

Education doesn't require a professional football stadium and  logo's on the basketball court for a professional look either, does it? That is what education at West Elk has become.

Next they will be wanting a Concert Hall which is not required for K-12 education, is it?

Today we are being told that a computer is required to learn simple reading, writing and arithmetic, thanks to corporations. The corporations that are making billions of dollars selling computers and software to the   school districts. It's all about the BIG bucks.

The kids most likely know more about computers than their teachers, but check out their spelling. Even with spell check they can't get it right. 

Just what is education, what is the definition of Education for West Elk?

Is education about better and bigger buildings and bigger debts?

[Ross]

Ross, a nosy question from me.If you are so bad off financially, why not go back to work, sell off some land or rent a house to lower your taxes.

Diane what a perception you have? I am wondering right now, where I can receive a loan to buy a new pair of underwear, they are just too costly and my boys need the support? Come on Diane won't you co-sign a note for me?

Why do you assume everyone out there is as poor as you feel you are? It sounds to me like you have more of a lifestyle problem related to finances than a school bond issue problem.

I don't ass/u/me anything!
And I don't feel poor!
Where do you come off with this crap?
I probably have more income than the average working income in Elk County at the present time.

Your poor comprehension is apparently subsidized by dreaming up B.S.
When are you going to tell us that you designed the 9-11 memorial?

To wastefully spend $4,000,000.00 is foolishness, but you can not grasp or comprehend that clear up in Delaware. Of course you are aware, you are in Delaware aren't you?
Just taking a reality check there my little figment!

Also, apparently your folks out there do not get out and vote, regardless of the tax issue Doesn't that bother you? You are quick to suggest that your teachers aren't earning their pay. How about poking at those who don't go vote.

That is what living in Delaware deprives you of my little figment.
Why do you want to put down my friends and neighbor.
It must be that Konnection you have, huh?
I sure am glad it isn't contagious!

Apparently, you did not comprehend that 75 to 80% of the voters voted "NO" on the last Bond Issue. And that has lead the School Board and the School Superintendent and the Site Council to decide to canvass voters. They will be Trying to change the out come.
I hope who ever listens to them asks for documentation to back up their words.

There you go with more fabrications about teachers earning their pay.
I have never said anything about our teachers earning their pay.
But I will say that like in any job, you will have a bad employee or two.

As I have said in another post I have relatives that are teachers. A married couple in my family are both retired teachers --- one was an excellent teacher the other a poor teacher. It happens. Does a poor teacher or worker earn their pay Diane? Just common sense isn't it?

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE, be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE, Be FRUGAL,   Just say," NO "