Surviving Without the Pledge of Allegiance . . .

[redcliffsw]

How, one may wonder, did settlers and colonists and immigrants to America survive and prosper from 1620 to 1892 without the Pledge?

I don't think that the Pledge should be said in public schools. For that matter, I don't think there should be public schools.
-Michael S. Rozeff

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/130770.html

[frawin]

You should change your Forum name to Adolph, it would fit you better.

[Catwoman]

You should change your Forum name to Adolph, it would fit you better.

Well said, Frank.

[redcliffsw]

You should change your Forum name to Adolph, it would fit you better.

Frawin, how do you mean exactly? 

The Pledge of Allegiance was invented by a socialist to indoctrinate school children. 

[frawin]

Frawin, how do you mean exactly?  

The Pledge of Allegiance was invented by a socialist to indoctrinate school children.  

You know exactly what I mean, you are rude, arrogant  and annoying but you are not stupid. You think everyone and everything is socialistic but you and Ron Paul.

[jarhead]

Red, I don't know who or why the Pledge was "invented" but can you tell me what is so wrong with children saying it ? What specifically is so wrong with it ?

[larryJ]

Whew!  Glad I don't hang out in Politics much!  That said, I am sure there are many people who don't give a second thought to what they are actually pledging.  As children we were taught to say it when we went to school.  However, according to the latest rulings by various entities, you are not required to stand or place your hand over your heart if you don't want to.  School children can not be punished in any way if they prefer not to recite the pledge.  I personally used to think that those who didn't place their hand over their heart or say the pledge were "bordering on treason."  Then I remembered that all of us.....Americans.......have the constitutional right to say or do what we feel.  That said, here is what you are pledging.......

I Pledge Allegiance....  I Promise to be faithful and true (Promise my loyalty)
to the flag..... to the emblem that stands for and represents
of the United States...... all 50 states, each of them individual, and individually represented on the flag
of America...... yet formed into a UNION of one Nation.
and to the Republic....... And I also pledge my loyalty to the Government that is itself a Republic, a form of government where the PEOPLE are sovereign,
for which it stands, ....... this government also being represented by the Flag to which I promise loyalty.
one Nation under God, ..... These 50 individual states are united as a single Republic under the Divine providence of God, "our most powerful resource" (according to the words of President Eisenhower)
Indivisible, ..... and can not be separated.   (This part of the original version of the pledge was written just 30 years after the beginning of the Civil War and demonstrates the unity sought in the years after that divisive period in our history)
with Liberty ..... The people of this Nation being afforded the freedom to pursue "life, liberty, and happiness",
and Justice ...... And each person entitled to be treated justly, fairly, and according to proper law and principle,
for All........ And these principles afforded to EVERY AMERICAN, regardless of race, religion, color, creed, or any other criteria.   Just as the flag represents 50 individual states that can not be divided or separated, this Nation represents millions of people who can not be separated or divided.

Thus it is that when you Pledge Allegiance to the United States Flag, You:
*Promise your loyalty to the Flag itself.
*Promise your loyalty to your own and the other 49 States.
*Promise your loyalty to the Government that unites us all,
     Recognizing that we are ONE Nation under God,
     That we can not or should not be divided or alone,
     And understanding the right to Liberty and Justice belongs to ALL of us.

I recall an incident some years ago when I attended a local rodeo.  It was a large rodeo and quite crowded.  Behind me and to the right were some Mexican farmworkers with their cowboy hats on and behind them were some Vietnam veterans with their "Vietnam Vet" caps on.  As the rider came out with the American flag and circled the arena and then stopping in the middle, the national anthem was played.  When the rider first appeared, we all stood as we were taught to do.  So did the Mexicans, probably because everyone was standing.  Those wearing hats or caps removed them as we were taught to do...........except for the Mexicans.  Because they didn't know.  The vets behind them began screaming "cover!" at the Mexicans, but they didn't understand that either as it is a military word/phrase meaning to remove your hat.  I thought there was going to be a war about then, but the vets calmed down and everything was okay. 

But that incident goes to show how we, the American people, stand united behind a symbol, a flag, a piece of cloth that represents all of us.  No matter whether it is legal/illegal, chic or passe, etc., I will still stand up for the flag when it is presented at a ball game or parade or rodeo or anywhere, because that was what I was taught to do.  I will still give a military salute (reserved for active duty members of the Armed Forces, both in uniform and out, and veterans) or put my hand over my heart as I was taught to do.  Do I do this only because I was "taught to do this" or do I do it because I totally respect that "emblem" that represents not just the country I live in, but out of respect for those who have died fighting for it.  I am not just saluting a piece of cloth. 

I am saluting fellow comrades or my ancestors who gave it all for me to be where and what I am and what I have.

So, say what you will about "should we need the pledge of allegiance," ............YES, WE DO, IMHO.

whew.

Larryj

 

[Wilma]

Yes, we need the pledge of allegiance to remind us what we have and how we can preserve it. 

But, concerning the hand over the heart, most people today are taught that.  I was taught to salute the flag with the hand at the forehead, in a military style salute.  I don't know when it was changed, but my children were taught the hand over the heart.

Thank you, Larry, for giving us that fine definition of the flag salute.

[larryJ]

Second note on that.  When the pledge was orginally spoken, the salute was extending the arm outward with the palm up.....or down, (can't remember right now.)  Anyway, when the pledge began the palm was extended and then when the pledge ended the palm was turned over.  That changed when the Nazi's came into being and the salute was determined to be too much like the Nazi salute.

Wilma, I may be wrong on this, but as you said you were taught to salute with the hand at the forehead.  I seem to remember that women were taught that gesture which was similar to boys and girls scouts two-fingered salute to the brow.  I remember my mother also saluting that way.

Another note about that rodeo.......It was the first time my daughter-in-law, actually son's girlfriend at that time, had gone with us to the rodeo.  Unashamedly, I will admit that the sight of the cowboy on the horse galloping around the arena, along with the patriotic music, always brings a tear to my eyes.  There is a movie with George Strait called "Pure Country" which, at the end, has that very scene and I tear up every time I watch the move.  I don't get emotional that often, but that always gets to me.  She noticed this and quietly asked my son why I was on the verge of tears.  He told her not to worry, that Pops always does that and why Pops always does that.  Her respect for me rose a whole bunch of notches when that happened.  As she is Chinese, born in Hong Kong, but brought here at an early age, she is just as American as any of us.  So she understood.....and loves me all the more for it.

Larryj

[jarhead]

Doc,
Thanks for saying what the Pledge means and a job well done. My oldest brother, Kenny, was already in the Marines when I started the 1st grade. He was Sgt Rock, Sgt Stryker and Sgt Fury all rolled into one, in my young mind. When we said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning I probably said it the loudest as I had visions of Kenny raising the flag on Iwo Jima---even though WW-II had ended 11 years prior.
Those are not tears in your eyes when the Star Spangled Banner plays--old vets are not allowed to cry without permission, so that is just "sad water" in your eyes.
I doubt they would put an old Marine in front of a firing squad for saluting the flag while out of uniform but when they passed a law a few years back saying we could, the Commandant at that time issued a directive saying Marines should "refrain" from doing it unless in uniform and under cover---and my uniform will no longer fit unless you sew about a foot of elastic in the back of it---OK, two feet !!!