Doesn't Make Sense!

[jarhead]

Ditto, Bull

[Varmit]

I would like to thank everyone that has posted to this thread!  There were several good ideas for improving the facility that we have without spending a boat load of money that we don't have.  This conversation proves my point that facilitators are not needed unless they are being used to bring about an already predetermined "solution".  Like I said before, officals are put into place based on their precieved abilities to do the job, if they can't then they need to step down.  With the combined experience, education, and knowledge of our officals and local population it just doesn't make sense to waste money on advisiors or facilitators.

[jprxmkt]

I was on a committee of teachers, staff, adminstration, school board, and community members when the consolidation to one campus happened a few years.  We had the complete blueprint of the entire facility and we did just as you are talking about.  We visually moved rooms around, combined offices that could be and looked at every room and closet (I am not kidding about the closets).  With everyone working together we came up with roughly what is being used now.  One of the larger closets was, at that time, being used by a tutor and student.  Is this good enough for our children?  Is this fair to them?  To expect them to learn to be productive members of society when we are putting them in a closet to learn (metaphor only and exaggeration).  The current high school rooms are absolutely not big enough to put a wall down to "create" 2 classrooms.  They are a comfortable size for the high school class sizes now and the building was never built to hold 600 kids.  (Maybe if you have the gymnasium full for a sporting event but not actively learning students areas) Yes, you could build a covered, closed in walkway between the modulars and the main building but that still doesnt fix the overcrowding inside.  The junior high kids who are not in sports have to have PE in the cafeteria or the weight room because the gym for sports practice last hour of the day. 

[readyaimduck]

What I am looking for is the actual reason why our officials seem scared or unqualified to do the job they signed up for

Okay, Varmit....this was your original question. 
So I wonder what is the task at hand in their eyes?  What 'facilitated' the facilitators?
  Sometimes, things need to be done to make things better (ambiguous, I know) however an 'outsider' can look with fresh eyes as long as the ultimate goal is that of the taxpayers.
   How long have the board been  'onboard'?  Sometimes burnout is evident after 5-8 years, and the newbies are totally overwhelmed.

ready

[readyaimduck]

jprx: 
Great recap of the steps toward the present!   Thank you.

ready

[Diane Amberg]

Thanks Julie, that's exactly how it should be done with an existing school.
Al and I  help design schools, Charter Schools....started with a project, but not a school, in 1984 . in 2001 we were asked if we would consider pairing up and using our particular expertise to act as the owners' reps for the new Newark Charter School. So we did. We interviewed and were hired by the board. That led, by word of mouth, to two others, including Providence Creek Charter in Clayton Del.
I meet /met with the teachers to see what they wanted if money were no object, and paired it down from there. In your case the building exists, so there are plans to look at and make decisions from.
For us ,it's things such as square or rectangular rooms ,windows that open or not, cubbies or lockers, lockable doors with coat hooks and shelves for the teachers, water in the classrooms or not? And on and on. It's much easier to get it right the first time than to redo it. (Actually the second year the elementary school was open ,they did expand and built several new classrooms and moved the library.)
Al takes the whole thing through the permitting and planning process and meets with the fire marshal, building inspector etc. gets the paperwork for run off, plantings ,storm water drainage, checking for bus turning radius problems and all sorts of things that someone has to do, and meets with city officials as necessary. The other two schools turned out so well, the city is being very cooperative with this one.
Here we help choose the builder and architects based on their presentations and what sized projects they've done in the past. We prefer design-build.
We help choose wall and floor surfaces, colors etc. For example we designed kids' bathrooms with no hall doors. (My idea)The entries are curved around, but open. Freshly cleaned hands stay clean... no cross contamination for door handles on the way out and noise monitoring is easier.  There are also no dedicated male rest rooms. We have women's rooms and those that can be used for either. We have never had a complaint and we saved a lot of money.
We meet weekly or, more often as needed, with all the trades and subs to see what's what and solve problems on behalf of the owner. Al just met with the new drama teacher to design the storage spaces and what not behind the stage and we met with the person who will be designing the lighting. many of the teachers have already been hired for next fall and are eagerly joining in and making great suggestions.
So what is your problem you, two?  Why would I make this up?

[Bullwinkle]

       When you hire a design/ build contractor, such as Simpson & Sons, the company that built the existing school, they do not need nor request help from the peanut gallery. They use architects that have been designing schools for years. They deal with the people that hire them, the school board. They have built thousands of schools over the years. Now called Simpson & Associates, they built the grade school I attended. Jerry Simpson is no longer at the helm. His son Bob is, and still building quality schools and churches among other things.

[Catwoman]

       When you hire a design/ build contractor, such as Simpson & Sons, the company that built the existing school, they do not need nor request help from the peanut gallery. They use architects that have been designing schools for years. They deal with the people that hire them, the school board. They have built thousands of schools over the years. Now called Simpson & Associates, they built the grade school I attended. Jerry Simpson is no longer at the helm. His son Bob is, and still building quality schools and churches among other things.

Technically, you are accurate as far as who is hired.  However...School districts have committees/individuals who guide those architects.  Yes, a 'peanut gallery' is utilized, to make sure that the company doing the work puts in what that community needs to make the physical plant as usable as is possible.  It would help if you had actually worked within a school system, had been a contributing member of such a committee or had even attended a planning session for any school.  Simply having shown up physically in a school, to attend class, doesn't count toward that end. 

[Diane Amberg]

 Bull, you could not be more wrong! If one has a "not to exceed" budget you'll have every cent spent as the particular budget dictates without even looking at it. If you include the so called "peanut gallery,'' ( UGG!) then if you can find ways to save money in one area by finding out what is really needed, not just wanted. Any extra money can then be spent in other areas. Even choosing one kind of wood over another can help.( just as an example.)
Some architects are more interested in designing buildings that will win awards than buildings that meet the needs of the owner.
We are able to use standard construction on the outside, rather than school style block construction...comes in much cheaper and the kids do not tear it up. But you have to know...it won't be offered. Goofy things like saving money by not painting the walls that will be behind the kid's lockers in the high school. That saved a lot!  We had to request bull nose block corners at the gym doors or it would not have been done.
 Even reliable builders with years of experience should want and welcome guidance and cooperation. That way they can avoid frustrating and expensive change orders.That is especially true when dealing with plumbing, fire sprinklers, heating and electricity. I'd share some funny stories, but the dark hearted ones will just fuss.
Doing a retro fit is different of course, if you are going to work entirely within the existing building foot print.
 My personal advice ..ya got a builder who doesn't want to work with a small consistent group or owners rep... don't hire them! It's the owners' money! Now, just anybody should not be tossing out advice directly to the builder either. There should be a conduit from all interested parties through a rep to the construction manager and architect, depending on how far along the project is. In our case it's the principal, Al and myself.
The board here gets updates, but does not want to be tied up with weekly meetings ,or more often as needed. That is our job. We always manage to pay for ourselves by the savings we find.
 Cat ,good post..you get it!
Good luck. Sorry you'll have the skeptics at it again.

[Catwoman]

Nah...The closet intellectuals will chime in and provide the comic relief to what has been a sad weekend so far.  Let the howling begin...