Ambassador killed in Libya

[jarhead]

Larry,
I said" send in a Bn of Marines to make it an even fight " meaning it to be sarcasm. Reading on I said bring all our people home from there. Don't be leaving the politics Doc. You bring common sense to this madness.

[larryJ]

Yeah, well, the madness is what keeps me out of politics.  I only posted on this because this is something that bothered me.  I wonder sometimes if this is a political thing, being an election year.  There was a reference back earlier about the hostages being freed the day Reagan took office.  You know, once a president wins an election, a long and drawn out indoctrination takes place to bring him up to speed.  So the timing of the hostage release looked real good for both presidents, new and old.  How do we know that our government is secretly inspriing all these uprisings so our current president will look good in handling the situation?   



Ahhhhhhh, I don't know.  And if I did, it wouldn't make a difference.  So, I am back outa Politics unless I see something worthwhile I can comment on and, of course, when Warph opens up on this.  I can hardly wait for that.

Larry (finally out of Politics) j

[Warph]

Warph, I took economics classes from Ben Stein at Pepperdine and he is a knowledgeable economist and trade lawyer. What I am more interested in is, your opinion as a former analyst for the State Dept. and the Air Force. If it doesn't cut in to your golf game or the typing doesn't aggravate your shoulder too much; you could give a your professor's take on this situation.

Glad to... I posted this a few years back.  Somewhat dated, but the next paragraph sums it up.

If history is any indication, a lasting solution to the current conflict in the Middle East will NEVER, EVER take place in our time and many generations to come.  

When I think of all the wars that have been fought over possession of the very cradle of the world's three major religions, I can't help but wonder where God is in all of this.  You have to just marvel at the stun-gun absurdity of fighting to the death....  over what happens after you die.

Damifino.  Hey, I've got no clue what's going on in the Middle East.  And what's more, dilligaf about the middle east?
 
All I know is, you have two Abrahamic religious groups enmeshed in a conflict whose modern incarnation dates to the 1917 Balfour Declaration, with territory disputes that remain unresolved despite the The Wye River Memorandum and UN: Resolutions 242 and 338...  but I probably just sound like an ignorant American there.

Hell, for 80 years, Palestinians and Israelis have been killing each other over the same arid strip of hardpan.  That's four generations of Arabs and Israelis who have grown up in a perpetual state of war.  No wonder it's impossible for either side to fathom the concept of peace.  In the Middle East, "Peace" is what you rest in for all of eternity."

Palestine, (which some say really doesn't exist, by the way) though generally barren, was desirable to the Jewish people because it is the birthplace of the three main monotheistic religions: Christianity, Judasism, and Goat Farming -- whoops... Islam.  Sorry.  Now, if God gives you a slice of land on a piece of desert and calls it the Promised Land, you gotta ask yourself: Promise Land?  Hasn't God ever been to Cabo?

Look, you have to admit that Israel is in more of a no-win situation than a Ballpark Frank entering the Westminster Dog Show.  They're a democracy trying to abide by Western norms in a region that does not play by those rules.  Israel, I promise you, is the only country where a democracy will work in the Middle East!!   I guarantee you, you plunk Switzerland down somewhere between Iran and Morraco, and the arabs are going to be thinking about how to kill somebody with a Toblerone.  

A Democracy will not work in Rag Head Country, Period!  It is NOT working in Iraq and will never work in Iraq.  Why you ask?  There are many reasons.  One, they keep blowing the shit out of everyone and everything.  Two, War Lords!  Man, they're all over the middle east.  Look at Afghanistan.  Supposedly a new Democracy..... well in Kabul, sort of... anyway.  What about the rest of the country?  Somebody forgot to tell the War Lords.  They state, "We will leave you alone and help keep the Taliban at bay IF you let us raise our poppy fields in peace."  Since Democracy, the crops are at 96% growth today compared to 2004....  and the Taliban are thriving just like the poppies!   Can't trust the War Lords.   No wonder Hamid Karzai is screaming to us for more troops.  The Palace Guards are higher than chinese kites and he's in fear of losing his democracy, not to mention his life.  The Prez hasn't got the troops to give him and most of our allies won't commit any more troops to Afghanistan..... and the dork is looking to the U.N. to handle the poppy explosion.  Yeah, right!  

I say if you really want to discourage people from doing drugs and keep the War Lords happy, legalize drugs for a year and encourage people to experiment.  The smart people will sit back and barricade themselves in their homes, while all the drink-the-bongwater burnouts and needle-ites go to town, mixing industrial grade sealant and horse tranquilizers into a hookah, shooting and smoking it.  I guarantee you, before the year is up, we'll dramatically thin the goat herd and who knows?  Maybe some of the more demented stoners will mix so many weird chemicals, they'll stumble onto a cure for cancer in their pursuit of a buzz that could win the Nobel Peace Pipe.  

And to the suicide bombers: how are you helping to improve the lives of your people when you so patently disregard your own life?  And really, isn't this 72 virgins thing just a little overrated?  I mean, after three or four, doesn't the thrill kind of wear off?  And by Virgin 23, you're going to be begging for a pro, someone who knows when and when not to use their ...... nevermind, don't need to go there.

I guess my main objection to suicide bombing is how commercial its all gotten.  Back during the old intifada of '87, a guy strapped some explosives to his chest, walked into a building and blew himself up.  Now he's got to make a video, pose for eight-by-tens and party.  Maybe I'm old school, but whatever happened to the suicide bomber who just did it for the love of the hate?

You know, I didn't understand the PLO's Yasser Arafat's game.  Ehud Barak offered him arguably the best deal of any Israeli leader in recent history, and Arafat pissed all over it like he was Ozzy Osbourne taking a whiz on his loud neighbors barbeque.   Do you think it was the money.... the $4 billion dollars he received over the years from the U.S. and European Union countries, not to mention, Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia,  that he was stuffing into his private Swiss bank account up to that point.  Now that Yasser's not around anymore, Mrs. Arafat can now well afford that makeover.

So.... On one side of the sandbags, you have Israel's.  Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has never been a guy who knows verses 3 through 5 of "Kumbaya."  But this recent intifada with Hezbollah has hardened him like a dead guy on Viagra.  At this point, Olmert probably believes the only time Arabs and Jews will share the land is when they're under it.

The so-called Quartet of Mideast peacemakers — the U.S., European Union, Russia and United Nations — say Hamas must renounce violence, recognize Israel and accept past peace agreements before aid can resume.  On the other side of the sandbags, Mahmoud Abbas has been pushing Hamas to accept those demands.  

The sad truth is, everyone in this thing just needs one good hard slap-upside-the-head of common sense.  Hey Palestinian Authority, keep pushing!  Hey Hamas, stop buying explosives and wearing a map of Israel on your headscarf and listen to what Mahmoud Abbas has to say.  And Jimmy?  Stay the hell home.  Hey Sultan bin Abdulaziz bin Abdul Rahman bin Faisal bin Turki bin Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Saud, what's with this talking peace in the Middle East but refusing to meet with the Israeli's?  You still waiting... oh... I forgot, you're dead.  And Lebanon, Prime Minister Michel Suleiman needs to get some backbone and start acting like he's the president, not Hezbollah.  And... oh yeah... Bashar al-Assad  & Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, listen up.  I was talking with a couple of B-2 Spirit - Stealth Bomber jockey's the other day about their sixteen 2,400 lb B83 nuclear bombs they carry in each plane and they tell me your day in the sun might be coming soon.... maybe sometime toward the end of the year.  

So what is my answer to the age-old problem in the Middle East?

Simple!  Forget legalizing drugs because that ain't going to work.  Give them CASINOS!  It worked here in the U.S. for our Native Americans.  Look, all religion has done is to jump-start a grudge war over it's individual beliefs and at least in casinos everyone can get along, have a few shirley temples, play a little Black Jack and forget their problems.  You don't even have to build a lot of new buildings because they already have a thousand-year-old Holy Land theme going on over there.  "C'mon, seven,  Baby Muhammad  needs a new pair of shoes!"

[Warph]

Here you go, Fire Elk... ol' Ben got another good'un..


         


http://spectator.org/archives/2012/09/14/end-times

End Times
By Ben Stein on 9.14.12 @ 6:09AM

There is that feeling in the air.

Thursday
Strange day.

I awakened to a text from a close friend who is a devout Christian and who was so angry at the elite media that she could not sleep. "I am so frikkin' sick of the media telling us that Islam is a 'religion of peace,'" she said. "Look, people make fun of Jesus all of the time and I mean ALL of the time and we don't kill them or harm them. But do anything at all that offends any Muslim and they start killing Christians and Jews -- and then Obama apologizes for it. How long can this go on? The times of Tribulation are at hand."

I got up, walked out on the deck and looked out at the perfect fall day over Lake Pendoreille. An absolutely perfect Fall day, blue skies, light breeze, just a slight chill in the air.

At breakfast, my wife suddenly said, "And then I beheld a red horse ridden by a man with a great sword...."

"What is that?" I asked her.

"It's Revelation," she said.

"I know, but where does that come from?"

"I just feel as if something big is about to happen," she said. "Something feels like we're about to live in a totally changed world. It feels like end times. Why are we apologizing to the Muslims? They're killing and expelling their Christians and we don't say a word. End times."

I nodded. There is that feeling in the air.

I got another text from my very devout Christian friend. "Don't tell me Obama isn't a Muslim," she said. "I don't care what he calls himself, he's a Muslim. That's why he's always apologizing to the Muslims."

I think she's bit off the mark here. If Obama says he's a Christian, he's a Christian.

I slept for a long time while listening to Mozart and the trains. Then I went to the mail box and got the latest news from the Obama/Biden campaign -- oops, meant to say, "The New York Times." Naturally, it was filled with rage against Mitt Romney There was very little vitriol against the killers in Libya, but plenty against Gov. Romney.

I sure hope that the people at the Romney campaign don't read The NY Times. It is just endless propaganda against Republicans. Nonstop. We Republicans should campaign on our own issues. Mr. Obama's idiot foreign policy is such an issue.

I went off to do my errands in Sandpoint. A visit to a super pleasant post office. A helpful clerk was patient with my terrible handwriting. Then a visit to the Alpine Shop to see my pal, Tim Farmin, who looked happy but told me my boat needed a new battery. Then, a visit to Ivano's to pick up some grub for tonight.

At Ivano's, I talked to a man who seethed with rage against Mr. Obama. He simply could not believe that Mr. Obama would make time to be among his Hollywood big shots but not make time to see Benjamin Netanyahu. "These are getting to be Biblical days," he said. "The final days."

A trip to the art framer, then to the drug store, then to the Safeway to buy a cake. The woman in the bakery told me that the days of tribulation and the dictatorship were upon us. She is looking to move to the mountains "to find refuge..."

"Be careful," I said. "That's what Vicki Weaver was looking for and it didn't work so well. Our refuge is in The Lord."

(I am up on Vicki Weaver because I am reading an astonishingly good book about the federal killings at Ruby Ridge called Ruby Ridge by a writer of unique talent by the name of Jess Walter. It is terrifying.)

Back to Ivano's to pick up my grub. Then back home to read the latest about the murder of the U.S. Ambassador to Libya and three of his staff.

Apparently word had been out for months that the most extreme of the anti-Qaddafi rebels were working with al Qaeda for 9/11. The State Department and the Defense Department had done nothing meaningful to protect the Ambassador. When the killers attacked the U.S. compound, they were heavily armed with anti-aircraft automatic cannon (a very deadly weapon) and RPG's. They were a recognizably violent group connected with al Qaeda.

It's amazing that Qaddafi kept saying that the people fighting against him were al Qaeda and we kept helping them -- and sure enough, they turned out to be al Qaeda. And Qaddafi, who had become our friend -- although a cruel and vile man -- was killed by the rebels so now Libya is in large measure in the hands of al Qaeda.

Same with Egypt. Mubarak was no one's idea of a great guy, but he was our pal. He kept the peace with Israel. He suppressed the terrorists. So, naturally, we stabbed him in the back. Now, we have worked to create an "Arab Spring" that has given us a fantastically more anti-American, anti-Israel, pro-al Qaeda Middle East.

But incredibly, Mr. Obama considers this an achievement. An achievement? To help al Qaeda and its pals, the Muslim Brotherhood, take power in the most populous Arab state? To help al Qaeda take over in oil rich Libya? What are they talking about?

I hope Mr. Romney will not let himself get pushed around by the Obama smear machine. I see that at a rally today in Virginia, his speech was derailed by a lone Obama heckler asking, "Why are you politicizing Libya?" That apparently rattled Gov. Romney badly.

The answer, should it come up again, is, "Because this is a democracy. We debate big points of foreign and domestic policy, especially during election campaigns. The failure of the administration to stand up to Muslim thugs is a big issue. Apologizing to terrorists is a big issue. The failure to protect our diplomats is a big issue. The failure to stand up for free speech is a huge issue. We are supposed to debate those things. If you don't like that, move back to Iran or wherever you came from."

Meanwhile, time for Mr. Romney to go back to attack mode. Why did the State Department not protect our Ambassador in Benghazi? Why isn't Mrs. Clinton resigning over this? Why isn't Secretary of Defense Panetta apologizing and resigning? There was a colossal failure here. The President is accountable. Why isn't he taking some responsibility here?

The Obama smear machine is making much of the supposed time line of this week. That supposedly the worst attacks came after Mr. Romney criticized The State Department for apologizing to the Muslims for an anti-Muslim film. But of course, they are missing the point totally and on purpose.

Why should we have been apologizing as a nation to Muslims for one person making a cartoon? We didn't apologize to the Russians when people in the USA made anti-Communist remarks. We didn't apologize to Hitler when people in America made anti-Nazi remarks. Why do the Muslims get this special apology treatment? What's up with that? We respect all religions, but we are not going to apologize to anyone as a people for what one guy does in his garage.

What is with Mr. Obama's special deference to the terrorists? I am well aware that he's done a darned fine job using drones to kill them and God bless him for it. But then why apologize to groups of people we feel are so terrible that we kill some of them without a trial or a declaration of war?

Let's get it straight, once again: We live by the first amendment and the Constitution. Our people have freedom of speech. Even the nutty ones. We do not apologize for our Constitution.

Well, enough of that. It is time for a quiet dinner listening to the lake and the trains. For now, it is paradise. The time of tribulation has not yet come for us all, and God bless that brave Ambassador, Christopher Stevens, who was murdered and had his body dragged through the streets by people we put in power. God help us when Judgment Day comes.

[srkruzich]

Larry,
I said" send in a Bn of Marines to make it an even fight " meaning it to be sarcasm. Reading on I said bring all our people home from there. Don't be leaving the politics Doc. You bring common sense to this madness.

we shouldn't respond to anything with less than a batallion over there and the only response should be to set down pickup our people and leave.  Maybe losing a nuke on the way out might help matters.  Few of those would calm them towelhead down.

[larryJ]

Thanks, Warph!  Thanks for making my day a little better.   

Larryj

[Diane Amberg]

Warph, that was a very nice piece.
  Al has said for the 50 some years I've known him, that we cannot measure those people using our standards.They are too different. As long as they still have their tribes there will always be conflict among themselves and with outsiders.
  They can't believe that our Gov't didn't have something to do with the film in question because their own would have. They just don't believe our Gov't doesn't get into such matters.They don't believe that kind of freedom exists. Just an excuse in this case anyway.

[Bullwinkle]

         There will never be peace among them. You'd have to end their tribal wars the same way they were ended here, kill off most of them and put the rest on reservations until the young ones don't remember the past.

        Most of them have probably watched Rambo help the Afgan tribes fight the Russians on film and went crazy cheering. The film had nothing to do with this.

[Warph]

The breaking news keeps breaking when it comes to revelations surrounding the attacks and protests aimed at U.S. embassies going on throughout the garbage heap in the middle east...  protests have spread to at least eight countries.  Reports indicate that four people have been arrested relating to the killing of the U.S. Ambassador to Libya and three other embassy staff there.  That offers at least the promise of getting more information about the deliberate attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi if this is true and not a rumor. ...Warph



Colonel David Hunt: ("Broom Hilda") Clinton Made Decision Not to Post Marines at Benghazi

         

by Michael Patrick Leahy 14 Sep 2012

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/09/14/Colonel-Says-Hillary-Clinton-Made-Decision-to-Have-No-Marines-at-Benghazi


In an exclusive interview with Breitbart News, Fox News military analyst Colonel David Hunt laid the blame for the murder of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans at the Benghazi, Libya American mission on Hillary Clinton and the State Department:

The State Department just allowed our guys to get killed. If you approve no bullets in guns for the mission security guards and an outhouse for a mission, you're inviting it.

Earlier, on Howie Carr's radio show Thursday, Colonel Hunt said that the American mission at Benghazi "was like a cardboard building, there wasn't even bullet proof glass." In addition, Hunt said the security guards inside the mission didn't have bullets:

Howie Carr: They weren't allowed to have bullets, is that correct?

Colonel Hunt: That's true. They were private security. The rules of engagement were ridiculous.

Hunt told Breitbart News that the new State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya, approved and signed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton since the 2011 fall of Khadafi's regime, severely compromised the safety and security of murdered Ambassador Stevens and all American diplomatic staff in Libya.

He also stated that the decision not to staff Benghazi with Marines was made by Secretary of State Clinton when she attached her signature to the State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya document. Breitbart News has subsequently learned that under those rules of engagement, Secretary Clinton prohibited Marines from providing security at any American diplomatic installation in Libya.

Hunt told Breitbart News that "the rules of engagement have been changing drastically over the last 10 years. . . The reason the surge in Iraq worked was we had another 40,000 soldiers and the rules of engagement were changed to allow our guys to shoot. What's happened in Libya is the final straw of political correctness. We allowed a contractor to hire local nationals as security guards, but said they can't have bullets. This was all part of the point of not having a high profile in Libya."

According to Hunt, the debacle at the American mission in Benghazi is directly the result of Obama's new policies. "The policy of the Obama administration led to this," he said.

"It was the policy of the Obama administration to have a low profile in Libya. That's why the rules of engagement were approved by the Secretary of State to have no Marines at Benghazi, and to have an American contractor hire Libyan nationals to provide security there. The rules were they couldn't have ammunition."

"Obama may not have known the details of the State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya, but his Chief of Staff and National Security Advisor would have. The Secretary of State absolutely would have."

"The Department of State Security are the people in charge of diplomatic security. They enforce the rules of engagement, which are set at Clinton's level at State. The Department of Defense was told we're not going to have Marines at Benghazi. Whether it goes higher than the Secretary of  State to the President, I don't know."

Hunt added that the rules of engagement specific to each country or military situation are drawn up by State Department lawyers and approved by the chain of command. "There should be a document with Hillary's signature and the Secretary of Defense's specific to Libya. It was signed after Khadafi fell from power.  You'll have to ask the State Department to get the document. They might claim it's classified, but it shouldn't be. The State Department has rules of engagement documents that are different for different countries. In our embassies in London and Paris, for instance,  it's always  a mystery if the Marines at the embassies have ammunition in their weapons."


Hunt compared the security at the Benghazi mission with security at the recent RNC and DNC.

"The recent political conventions had more security than Ambassador Stevens had in Benghazi. If you carried a sharp stick within a mile of the conventions at Tampa or Charlotte you got arrested, yet you don't give bullets to the guards of our Ambassador to Libya. It wouldn't surprise me if Al-Qaeda bought off some of the Libyan nationals hired to guard our ambassador at Benghazi."

Ambassador Stevens was based at the American embassy in Tripoli. According to a spokesperson at the State Department, he would visit the mission at Benghazi sporadically. No one at the State Department has yet answered this key question:

Why on the anniversary of 9-11 was he at the low security mission in Benghazi when it would obviously have been more prudent for him to have been at the presumably more secure embassy in Tripoli?


At her daily press briefing on Thursday, State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland offered a description of the defenses at the Benghazi mission that appeared to be in conflict with other press reports. In contrast to some reports that said security within the perimeter of the mission was provided by Libyan nationals, Nuland stated that they provided security on the perimeter and that "there was a robust American security presence inside the compound." [emphasis added]:


QUESTION: Can you talk a little bit more about the security that was at the Embassy? It seems that for an area such as Benghazi, where there was a lot of instability, there were very few guards there. And can you talk about whether the U.S. asked Libya, the Libyan Government, earlier in the week for extra security precaution and whether that – extra security precautions or security personnel and whether that request was fulfilled. . .It does seem though that there were very few security personnel at this location.

MS. NULAND: I'm going to reject that, Elise. Let me tell you what I can about the security at our mission in Benghazi. It did include a local Libyan guard force around the outer perimeter. This is the way we work in all of our missions all around the world, that the outer perimeter is the responsibility of the host government. There was obviously a physical perimeter barrier, a wall. And then there was a robust American security presence inside the compound. This is absolutely consistent with what we have done at a number of missions similar to Benghazi around the world. . .


Ms. Nuland, however, failed to elaborate on the specifics or size of the "robust American security" within the perimeter of the mission. Later in her news briefing, she addressed the State Department reasoning for failing to have Marines stationed at Benghazi:

MS. NULAND: There were not marines at this mission.


QUESTION: Why not?


MS. NULAND: They – we have a number of posts around the world. We have – there are embassies without marines, there are other consulates of this type without marines. We make a decision based on the local conditions as to whether that makes sense, but this posture that we had, which was external security by the Libyans and then a strong U.S. security presence – but it didn't include that particular contingent of Americans – inside, in a number of other missions that look a lot like Benghazi. . .


QUESTION: Is that for marines coming generally from the mission itself, or does the State Department say, you know, the situation's really bad right now in this particular section of the world, perhaps we should have marines based here.


MS. NULAND: It's not a matter of marines necessarily being a qualitatively different way of securing. There are many other ways to secure that are equivalent, too. It depends on the circumstances and it is different in every part of the world, and we evaluate it along with our friends at the Defense Department and other agencies individually, per mission.


Breitbart News has attempted to secure a copy of the State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya, but officials at the State Department have stonewalled, as this email correspondence from Friday reveals:

To [State Dept Spokesperson]:
(A) Status of my document request for the State Department rules of engagement for Libya?
(B) Can you help me find answers to these two questions:
1. Who provided security inside the Benghazi mission at the time of the 9-11-12 attack, how were they armed, and how many of them were there?
2. Who provided security on the perimeter of the Benghazi mission at the time of the 9-11-12 attack, how were they armed, and how many of them were there?

Michael Patrick Leahy
Breitbart News Contributor


Here is the official response from that State Department spokesperson:

Michael -

I do not yet have more information on the rules of engagement document, which as discussed last night, might require a FOIA request. I will let you know as soon as I receive feedback. However, and this also applies to your two follow up questions, we do not discuss security details for the safety of our missions. The two questions below are addressed to the fullest extent possible in both briefings I sent you last night.

[State Department Spokesperson]


On Friday, Breitbart News filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the State Department to secure a copy of the State Department Rules of Engagement for Libya.

Look for the State Department to continue to stonewall this request, and resist release of the document until after the election. Its contents will be just too damaging. In effect, the country will be able to see Hillary Clinton's signature on the document that served as Ambassador Chris Stevens's death warrant.

[Warph]

Innocence of Muslims - Muhammad Movie - FULL HD

   

Al Qaeda in Yemen urges Muslims to kill U.S. diplomats over film


http://www.infowars.com/al-qaeda-in-yemen-urges-muslims-to-kill-u-s-diplomats-over-film/

news.yahoo.com
September 15, 2012

The Yemen-based branch of al Qaeda urged Muslims to step up protests and kill more U.S. diplomats in Muslim countries after a U.S.-made film mocking the Prophet Mohammad which it said was another chapter in the "crusader wars" against Islam.

"Whoever comes across America's ambassadors or emissaries should follow the example of Omar al-Mukhtar's descendants (Libyans), who killed the American ambassador," the group said, referring to Tuesday's attack on the U.S. consulate in the Libyan city of Benghazi.

"Let the step of kicking out the embassies be a step towards liberating Muslim countries from the American hegemony," a statement posted on an Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) website on Saturday said.

Read more:  http://news.yahoo.com/al-qaeda-yemen-urges-muslims-kill-u-diplomats-070834271.html?_esi=1